From ward.shrake@w... Sat Jan 05 13:45:02 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 5 Jan 2002 21:44:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 57673 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 21:44:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2002 21:44:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.61) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 21:45:00 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.111] by n11.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2002 21:44:58 -0000 Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 21:44:59 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Need Lance Squire's new e-mail address Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 411 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.68.154 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan Lance, if you're reading this, you know that e-mail to you at lance@a... is bouncing back. Your latest e-mail to me did get through. However, you did not send the updated e-mail address you meant to send me; the "address above" was just a re-listing of the one that is not working. Please resend your real e-mail address to me, and I'll send the information you asked me for. Thanks. Ward Shrake From komb@s... Sun Jan 06 08:20:49 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 6 Jan 2002 16:20:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 3977 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 16:20:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2002 16:20:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.52) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 16:20:48 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.249.217]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020106162048.SARO16860.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 11:20:48 -0500 Message-ID: <3C387966.8070602@s...> Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 11:20:54 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.5) Gecko/20011014 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Need Lance Squire's new e-mail address References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian commie_fan wrote: > Lance, if you're reading this, you know that e-mail to you at > lance@a... is bouncing back. Your latest e-mail to me did get > through. However, you did not send the updated e-mail address you > meant to send me; the "address above" was just a re-listing of the > one that is not working. Please resend your real e-mail address to > me, and I'll send the information you asked me for. Thanks. Just so everyone knows, Alteeve.com is going through a re-location. (Unplanned) Until this is resolved that email address & the current html faq are un reachable. :( I do have an old backup of the html faq on www.investbuysell.com/~lance/Ballyfaq.html, but don't want anybody to set there links there yet... The Email address above should read, komb@s... I apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused. Just bad luck, I'm afraid. Lance F. Squire From ballyalley@h... Tue Jan 08 19:19:29 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 9 Jan 2002 03:19:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 21013 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 03:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2002 03:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.200) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 03:19:28 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:19:28 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 03:19:28 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] New post of a zipped pdf file describing how the BPA hardware works Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 19:19:28 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jan 2002 03:19:28.0770 (UTC) FILETIME=[72A3DE20:01C198BC] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Tony REALLY understates his BPA.pdf posting. He calls it simply, "a description of how the BPA video hardware works (for both consumer and commercial versions). This is an attempt to put to rest the rumor that a BPA can, with some simple modifications, output commercial resolution video." What Tony does NOT say is the detail and level of expertise that has gone into this 25-page document. This is not just a text file with some graphics thrown in for good measure; this is a mini-manual-- a suppliment to the Nutting Manual. Don't let this download pass through your fingers without a look. Take a look and (if you don't understand it) absorb the atmosphere and the effort of a job well done. James Krych, I hope you have looked at Tony's work! What are your thoughts? Anybody's? Tony, you ought to get a medal. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From komb@s... Wed Jan 09 15:20:58 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 9 Jan 2002 23:20:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 96353 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 23:20:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2002 23:20:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.52) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 23:20:56 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.248.139]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020109232056.ULCC16860.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 18:20:56 -0500 Message-ID: <3C3CD05D.9010801@s...> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:21:01 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.5) Gecko/20011014 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] New post of a zipped pdf file describing how the BPA hardware works References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Adam Trionfo wrote: > Tony REALLY understates his BPA.pdf posting. >What are your thoughts? > Anybody's? > > Tony, you ought to get a medal. > > Adam > I must say that this is an invaluable piece of work. Truly those involved in the design of these chips were ahead of there time! I thank you, Lance F. Squire From ballyalley@h... Fri Jan 11 13:36:00 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 11 Jan 2002 21:35:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 22172 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 21:35:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2002 21:35:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.33) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 21:35:59 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:35:59 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 21:35:59 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: When is a cassette not a cassette? When it's used as RAM! Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:35:59 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jan 2002 21:35:59.0472 (UTC) FILETIME=[F5C7CF00:01C19AE7] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Jan 11, 2002 When is a cassette not a cassette? When it's used as RAM! The Astrocade (1977) computer and any computer from today (2002) are similar in name only. Computers still work using the same idea (ones and zeroes) and do the same thing (freeze-up, breakdown, lose our data, make us curse), but a store-bought computer today really means (at least) a complete set-up of items to make us curse: computer, monitor, printer, memory, hard drive, CD-ROM drive, floppy drive, keyboard, and mouse. The Astrocade, with BASIC, is about as rudimentary a home computer as you can have; the memory storage device (cassette) is serial- the user uses a common (for the time) household audio-cassette recorder. What those users would not have given for a fast Random Access floppy drive- like our modern, much beloved, floppy drive. I'm not knocking this early computer arrangement; it works. Even then users were always looking for something more, something better, something to make the system have bragging rights. Who wanted to go around saying, "I have a 4K Astrocade," when one could brag with something like, "I have an expanded Astrocade, I made a 1K RAM expander myself. Imagine what I can do now, the possibilities are endless!" Nowadays memory and storage have somewhat lost bragging rights (everyone's got lots of it). The following article, Poor Man's Memory Expansion, from a 1980 issue of the Cursor newsletter has always been a favorite of mine. I've retyped it so that it can be shared- and make us all feel bad; it will make you think twice again about complaining about your current computer set. Adam Poor Man's Memory Expansion By C.J. Anderson Flash Foonman, our resident maniac and sometime inventor, came running into the office yesterday looking more wild than usual. "What would you say," he smirked, "if I told you I had just downloaded that 16K BASIC CHESS program into Bally BASIC and it's up and running on the Arcade right now?" "I'd say you've started drinking early today," I replied, but he had already grabbed my arm and hauled me out of my chair. Out on the bench sat the Bally. On the screen was a chessboard. White had just opened with P - K4. Nothing was happening, but I noticed that the cassette recorder was running and the red light on the interface was on. Suddenly the screen went blank and a program listing began to appear. "It's working on its opening move," said Flash. "We should have its response in a couple of hours." "A couple of hours?!" I moaned. "Hey, that's good for a chess program, "said Flash. "Atari's VIDEO CHESS, level 7, takes an average of eight to ten hours per move. Anyway, since we've got plenty of time, let me explain what's happening here." I assured him I was all ears. "I really do have a 16,000 byte program running here," he began, but I stopped him. "Where's your expanded RAM?" I asked. "Where is your memory add-on?" "Right here," he said, patting the cassette recorder. "And it's not RAM, it's mass memory just like a floppy disk or a stringy floppy. Only it's very slow. I call it a STRINGY CREEPY." "You mean you've got a 16,000 byte program on that cassette and the Bally is processing it 1800 bytes at a time?" I gasped. "That's really neat, Flash, but how many times do you have to sit here and rewind the tape looking for the subroutines you need as the program calls for them? You've just made yourself a part of the machine, and I don't call that true computing." "Not so, mon ami," he replied. "I never touch the machine. It calls for its own subroutines and loads them automatically whenever it needs them thanks to the newly discovered SELECTIVE LOAD function that Fred Cornett wrote about in Vol. II, issue 2 of Cursor. Each subroutine on the tape is prefaced by an identifier number, you know: 257, 258, etc. Each subroutine uses the same line numbers so when a new subroutine is called for it automatically erases the previous one from our constant 1800 byte RAM. When the new subroutine is fully loaded, a :RETURN; GOTO 1000 command on the tape starts the computer running again and it branches down into the new material. Then it decides which subroutine it wants to see next, sets the A variable to that number, and branches to a :INPUT A;STOP command in RAM. That sends it back to the tape to find the subroutine that corresponds to the value of A. Simple, huh?" "Hold it!" I said. "That's really brilliant, all right, but what happens when the cassette comes to the end? How do you rewind it to start over?" "I don't have to," said Flash, grinning, "because this is a very special cassette. It has no end and no beginning. It's the Automatic Repeating Cassette, catalog number 60,920 from Edmund Scientific Co., 101 E. Gloucester Pike, Barrington, New Jersey 08007. It sells for a measly $12.95 plus $1.75 shipping and handling, and it boasts 20 minutes of recording time. That's enough to store 20,000 bytes of data or program [when using 300 baud Bally BASIC]. I tested the process with a Radio Shack 43-401 which has only 20 SECONDS of recording time and costs $5.95, but this A.R.C. from Edmund is the cat's pajamas!" "Now let me get this straight," I said. "This endless cassette just sits here going around and around forever, and the computer keeps jumping to it, waiting for its desired data to come around then loading that data and therefore modifying its own program constantly?" "Yup," said the madman. "No limit to the size of the program you can run as long as time is not an important factor. On a long program like this 16K job you may have to wait up to 20 minutes between each subroutine, which is okay, for a sophisticated chess game or for mailing list or word-processing applications. For shorter programs, but still larger than 1800 bytes, I just the load the subroutines in sequence several times on the cassette loop. That speeds up the search. If I can get them on twice, we can search in ten minutes. If I can get them on there three times, it's a little less than 7 minutes." Just then the chessboard reappeared on the screen and the computer made its move: P - K4. "I expected that," mumbled Flash, and reached for his copy of BOBBY FISCHER TEACHES CHESS. I left him mumbling something about the Sililian Defense, but not before I had picked up his notes off the bench. Here's a simple little program that Flash designed to demonstrate his "stringy creepy" concept to any skeptical users. STRINGY CREEPY CASSETTE OPERATING SYSTEM (COS) By Flash Foonman Use an ordinary blank cassette, or one of the two described. The program will demonstrate how the computer can continually modify its internal program by acting on its own decisions. If you use an endless cassette, it will do so with no human assistance. Otherwise you must rewind the tape after each response. Type the following line: 100 PRINT "FOUND 257";RETURN Now, transfer it to the tape with the following commands input without a line number (before hitting "GO" make sure your tape recorder is recording): NT=1;:PRINT ;TV=1;TV=1;LIST;PRINT ":RETURN;GOTO 10 Stop the recorder. Do not rewind. Now type: 100 PRINT "FOUND 258";RETURN Transfer it to tape with the previous command, changing the identifier to "...TV=1;TV=2..." etc. Repeat this process twice more, using "...FOUND 259..." "...TV=1;TV=3..." and "...FOUND 260..." "...TV=1;TV=4...". Rewind the cassette, RESET the Bally and enter this simple program: 5 CLEAR 10 GOSUB 100:A=RND (4)+256;PRINT "A=",#0,A 20 :INPUT A;STOP 100 PRINT "START CASSETTE";RETURN Okay, RUN the program. Start the cassette. The screen displays the value it has selected for A, the input port opens, the program stops, and the computer loads subroutine A when it finds it. It then restarts itself and announces that it has found subroutine A. HALT the program at this point, and LIST it on the screen. Notice what happened to line 100; out with the old, in with the new. If you're using a repeating cassette you can sit back and watch the computer reprogram itself all day long. The actual resident program is only 44 bytes long, but its effective length is 112 bytes. It's slow, but it's real honest-to-gosh expanded memory. As for Flash, I just heard him shout: "Hey! If a guy has TWO cassettes running simultaneously, one playing and one recording, the computer could be pulling data off the first one, modifying it, and rewriting it on the second one!" I'm going out for a drink! [Note: Use of the selective load characteristic of the original Bally BASIC is not supported in Astro BASIC, so, as written, this article would not work for Astro BASIC.] -- From Astrocade newsletter Cursor, Vol. II, Page 67 (October 1980) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From jwkrych@n... Fri Jan 11 19:42:51 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 12 Jan 2002 03:42:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 18287 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2002 03:42:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2002 03:42:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.70) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2002 03:42:49 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.37] by n20.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2002 03:33:59 -0000 Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 03:42:47 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Some thoughts Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2372 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "centurion030" X-Originating-IP: 24.50.231.253 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8914535 X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 Hi All! Been busy! Got a Devastator customer to take care of! BTW: The February issue of Maximum PC has a Devastator review in it! PC Gamer should be next, not certain which month. Okay! Excellent job Tony on your information on the chips! Obviously, more than extra memory is needed. I would have loved to have seen a picture of the insides of the Perkin machine that allowed high-res (commercial mode)! They had very good technical knowledge to do it, but the logistics of it were very prohibitive! Certainly it CAN be done, but like the A/V mods for the 2600 and 7800, it's not for the faint of heart. The only way is to have a mobo replacement, or what I described earlier about and FPGA card for the PC. I think that a down and dirty 32K SRAM mini-board that fits on the back and draws some voltage from the light pen port should do fine-a 74HCT138 and a low-power 32K SRAM. This would be decoded to start at 6000 hex, and work up there. That basically covers any compatibility issues. And, the boards could be made very inexpensively. Tony, I was with Mike White when we played with the memory expansion that was able to disable the onboard RAM chips, and allowed decoding of memory to start at 4000 hex. We did get a picture, but something was really wrong in River City, as all collision detection and such was gone. And, some carts wouldn't even work. This would make for a great April Fols joke: Get a composite video signal from a PC running MAME and W.O.W., have that go into the BPA, and come back out through that nasty RF modulator. Have an expansion memory system behind the BPA, and a dummy cart labled like it was a long-lost prototype that Ward got that Mike White never heard of that Adam was able to get from Jamie who had no clue as to who wrote it! And simply have a picture of the whole setup and entitle it "It Was Possible!!!" However, on a more serious note, there was serious talk about having a TMS9918A VDP with 16K, for screen RAM, running on the BPA through the back and being fed back in. And, that ZGRASS prototype that was shown around was actually a UV-1 made to operate in just consumer mode. So, what we would be doing is similar, with just more modern equipment. So, there is a "way" to have high-res on a stock BPA. As one Jedi said to another, depending on a certain point of view!!! Jim From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Mon Jan 14 16:04:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4112 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 00:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2002 00:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.81) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 00:04:29 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [216.115.97.81] by n31.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2002 00:04:23 -0000 Date: 15 Jan 2002 00:04:22 -0000 Message-ID: <1011053062.4352.88807.w111@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley group. File : /astrocade_reviews.txt Uploaded by : atrionfo Description : Astrocade Review Compilation "The Game Player" ver. 10 You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/astrocade_reviews.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, atrionfo From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Mon Jan 14 16:06:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 81539 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 00:05:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2002 00:05:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.74) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 00:05:59 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [216.115.96.135] by n24.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2002 00:05:59 -0000 Date: 15 Jan 2002 00:05:54 -0000 Message-ID: <1011053154.3623.75370.w49@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley group. File : /andy_guevara.rtf Uploaded by : atrionfo Description : Astrocade ML Programming Tutorial (RTF) You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/andy_guevara.rtf To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, atrionfo From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Mon Jan 14 16:07:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 77846 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 00:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2002 00:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.62) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 00:07:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [216.115.96.133] by n12.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2002 00:07:01 -0000 Date: 15 Jan 2002 00:06:57 -0000 Message-ID: <1011053217.2162.21669.w47@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley group. File : /andy_guevara.txt Uploaded by : atrionfo Description : Astrocade ML Programming Tutorial (txt) You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/andy_guevara.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, atrionfo From jwkrych@n... Mon Jan 14 17:45:34 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 15 Jan 2002 01:45:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 53825 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 01:45:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2002 01:45:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.78) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 01:45:33 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.170] by n28.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2002 01:45:32 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 01:45:27 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Okay Tony, now what??? Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 303 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "centurion030" X-Originating-IP: 24.50.231.253 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8914535 X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 Okay Tony! How do we get the medium res mode, 160 x 204????? This mode can be found in the Perkin hack, Arcadian volume 3 pages 62-63, description, and page 94 for the ad. How do we do this and does it need the shifter? BTW: kit cost $250 and it was $350 assembled by Mr. Perkins. Regards, Jim From fmillera@p... Mon Jan 14 19:10:03 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 15 Jan 2002 03:10:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 25203 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 03:10:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2002 03:10:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.55) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 03:10:01 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.142] by n5.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2002 03:10:01 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 03:09:59 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Okay Tony, now what??? Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 459 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "tonymillerus" X-Originating-IP: 63.199.241.246 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --- In ballyalley@y..., "centurion030" wrote: > Okay Tony! > > How do we get the medium res mode, 160 x 204????? This mode can be > found in the Perkin hack, Arcadian volume 3 pages 62-63, description, > and page 94 for the ad. How do we do this and does it need the > shifter? BTW: kit cost $250 and it was $350 assembled by Mr. Perkins. > > Regards, > > Jim Okay Jim, point to where I can find this and I'll look at it. Tony Miller From zeke1312@a... Tue Jan 15 07:27:52 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: zeke1312@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 15 Jan 2002 15:27:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 55909 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 15:27:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2002 15:27:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.51) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 15:27:51 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.24] by n1.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2002 15:27:50 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:27:49 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Heat Problems Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 881 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "zeke1312" X-Originating-IP: 152.163.204.73 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=82530073 X-Yahoo-Profile: zeke1312 I just joined this group so what I have to say may be old news. In 1977, I ordered a Bally Home Library Computer. After several months I received a unit which failed after a couple hours of use. When I received the 2nd unit a couple of months later, I took the case off and found a clam shell type RF shield which I removed from the unit. I turned on the unit and found the 3 hottest ICs and super glued a small heat sink to each. No problems after that. I later added the Bally Basic and tape interface. In the early eighties I slod the BHLC and bought a Commodore 64. I still have some Bally literature and Commodore cartridges. I thought I'd pass on the heat problem/resolution which I ran across in 1978. Incidently, I think one of the problems regarding the delayed release of the initial BHLC was meeting FCC requirements and subsequent heat problems(?) From ballyalley@h... Fri Jan 18 18:13:27 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 19 Jan 2002 02:13:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 31582 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 02:13:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2002 02:13:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.70) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 02:13:25 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 18:13:25 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 02:13:25 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Bally ROM source available (part 1), ver. 1.0) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 18:13:25 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jan 2002 02:13:25.0561 (UTC) FILETIME=[E083AA90:01C1A08E] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Assembling the Bally ROM Source Code Lance Squire and I have been working on the Bally source/header/assembler-choice project and there is finally something to show for it. The ROM source is far from finished, but it is a start, and I've uploaded it. It contains the complete header file and is enough to give anyone a good taste of what it takes to program the Astrocade. When it is finished, in conjuction with the 'Nutting manual,' this is the information that was used for cartridge creation. Currently the assembly listing file is full of 'Undeclared' errors. When all of the source is typed-in, these will vanish (references are made to labels that don't exist yet). I'm leaving the few others types of errors until all the source is re-typed (help needed). To compile the ROM you need the preferred Z-80 assembler (Zmac) and the assembly source file (BallyROM.asm). Both of these files can be found in the discussion group area and are called: * BallyROM.zip (includes ballyequ.asm) * zmac_dos.zip (includes zmac.exe for DOS) The ROM file contains the equates and macros that the Bally ROM requires for assembly (the header file is available separately too). This file has been written to assemble with ZMAC 1.3 (a little known, freely distributable Z-80 assembler (with C source), that has a 25-year history. ZMAC can be compiled under just about any O.S. in existence, so try it out. The ROM source listed in the 'Nutting Manual' will not assemble directly under Zmac (or any other assembler that Lance Square and I could find). Only minimal changes need to be made to the source as listed, but it is important to note that this source file is not exactly the same; if you notice differences, leave them alone for now and don't send me email that lets me know about these small differences. To assemble your Z-80 source code using ZMAC: zmac -d -o -x For example, assemble this Astrocade Z-80 ROM file: zmac -d -o BallyROM.bin -x BallyROM.lst BallyROM.asm The resulting assembly listing (BallyROM.lst) will have errors and can not, at this time, be expected to be used as the ROM. The best way to view the listing in your word processor/editor is with top and bottom margins set to 6 and left/right margins set to 8. -- Adam Trionfo, January 18, 2002 _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From ward.shrake@w... Sat Jan 19 18:47:05 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 20 Jan 2002 02:47:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 57275 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 02:47:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2002 02:47:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.76) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 02:47:05 -0000 Received: from [216.115.97.81] by n26.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jan 2002 02:36:01 -0000 Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 02:47:04 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Various announcements and comments Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3281 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.156 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan A few Bally-related announcements... (1) I've been talking to Frank Palazzolo, off and on for years now. (He is the Astrocade's emulator author, in the MESS software emulator.) In my last communication with him, he asked me to pass this on... "If anyone else you know has time to test these, I'd encourage them to use the bugzilla link on the www.mess.org homepage to log any problems. Myself or someone else will get around to fixing these eventually." This was in reference to all of the new ROM images that were archived semi-recently (in the last few months), and the MESS software emulator. If anyone uses both the MESS emu and a real system enough to have bug reports, now you know where to send them, to help improve the state of the Bally's emulation efforts. (Doing so is very important, to be able to develop code using emus.) (2) I also mentioned to Frank Palazzolo that it would be nice to have a new feature built into the MESS emulator for the Bally, that would allow you to load a hybrid tape/cart image, then AstroBASIC or Blue RAM BASIC right after it. He thought that was a good idea. There was no reason for this, before, but thanks to guys like Mike White who can and have converted BASIC games on tape to carts, there is now. (3) I used to have all of the ROM images for the Bally machine up on the Internet, in a semi-private place. I'm sorry, but I had to take them all down. This was due to an abundance of caution on my part, in response to an e-mail from my web site hosts ("ClassicGaming.com") that asked all of their hosted sites to get rid of anything that might be considered questionable, or risk various nasty things up to and including being kicked off of their servers. I didn't like having to take the ROMs down, but felt I had no real choice in the matter. I had done all I could, before, to keep things quietly available to the true hardcore fans of the Bally system, but the e-mail they sent out to all hosted sites specifically broke things down in such lawyerly detail that even storage of anything questionable is now forbidden. (They've been slowly tending in this general direction for many months. They just now made a firm and final decision on the matter.) (4) On the subject of ROM images... people may wonder why there are not more ROM images up on ClassicGaming.com's "Game Vault" section. That also was a choice primarily made by others, and not by me. With the Emerson Arcadia 2001 system, I had submitted everything that I had archived, as I archived it. The choice not to post anything new -- going back for many months -- was solely their decision, and not mine. I respect that, and am not moaning about it; I just want to be clear on whose decision it was, lest anyone think I am withholding stuff. With the Bally stuff, Adam Trionfo is hoping to have most of the ROM images "legal-ized" over time, so he has asked me not to go nuts releasing stuff publicly. Again, I respect that decision, and wish Adam more success in getting that admirable goal accomplished. (5) If Larry Anderson is reading this, please e-mail me (Ward) with your newest e-mail address. The one I have now just bounces stuff. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Sun Jan 20 18:51:06 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 21 Jan 2002 02:51:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 47764 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 02:51:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2002 02:51:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.52) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 02:51:05 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.50] by n2.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2002 02:51:04 -0000 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 02:51:04 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Comments on controllers Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1223 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.219 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan Silly question... in all of the "let's make new hardware and software" type discussions, has anyone mentioned the idea of perhaps hooking a light gun up to the system? Perhaps I'm over-simplifying things -- apologies in advance, if I am -- but there is a light pen port already installed in the Bally system. Has anyone considered wiring up either a Nintendo NES gun, or a Sega Master System gun to the Bally? (Sounds like one more wild scheme to throw into the mix?) Also, for what it is worth, I broke open a few of the paddle controllers for the Atari 2600 machine, and measured the resistance of the potentiometer inside. It claims to be a "one meg ohm" resistor on the casing, but if it is, the tolerances are pretty high -- 20% plus. I measured as high as 970k ohms, and as low as 772k ohms, on the ones I checked. (From end to end, ignoring the moving wiper.) What that means to me is that trying to adapt the paddle function, from one system to the other, is going to be very impractical if not downright impossible. (The Bally wants a max of 50,000 ohms of resistance, and the Atari expects 1,000,000 ohms of resistance.) Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Mon Jan 21 17:38:41 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 22 Jan 2002 01:38:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 8281 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 01:38:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2002 01:38:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.128) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 01:38:39 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:38:38 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 01:38:38 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Finished - Astrocade Game Reviews Compilation Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:38:38 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2002 01:38:38.0898 (UTC) FILETIME=[84016920:01C1A2E5] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo January 21, 2002 The "Astrocade Game Reviews Compilation," featuring all twenty-one "Game Player" columns from the Arcadian newsletter, is finished. The file "astrocade_reviews.zip" can be downloaded in the Astrocade Discussion Group download area. These columns cover 1983 and 1984, the period that produced some of the most difficult to find software for the Astrocade. Here, to whet your appetite, is the last column of the "Game Player" by Michael Prosise. This piece will give you a taste of some of the others columns, and it really sets the tone for the year it was written: 1984. Michael's last column is a game player's voice from the videogame crash written during it's 1984 downfall, when no one knew exactly what was going on or if games would even be played anymore. Adam Trionfo >From "The Game Player," #21 (Arcadian Vol. 6, pg. 117, October 31, 1984): As the 1983-84 volume of the Arcadian comes to a close and as it is about to enter its seventh year of publication, it is an appropriate time to glance back at the past year's game reviews, some significant events in gaming, and examine what appears to be an alarming and ominous trend in the videogame industry, including and most importantly those software manufacturers who create and sell games for the Astrocade system. It was just over a year ago that the software market had an historic first, when Esoterica Ltd. released TREASURE COVE, the first privately produced cartridge game for the Astrocade system. At a time when Astrocade had not released a new cartridge in over a year, the news of this action by Esoterica was the most exciting and significant event since the "new" ASTROCADE BASIC cartridge hit the scene. The release of TREASURE COVE represented an important change for Astrocade owners. They hopefully would no longer have to depend on Astrocade as a sole source of cartridge games, a most significant factor since the Astrocade company was having serious difficulty surviving. (See "Video Game Death..." Vol.5, No. 1, Pg. 3). Even today the future of Astrocade remains uncertain, and in the light of the current state of the home videogame computer industry, do not be surprised if you never see another cartridge from the Astrocade people again. Esoterica later went on to release a cartridge titled BLASTDROIDS, which, along with TREASURE COVE, were never submitted for review. The Esoterica people have recently announced that both of these cartridges will no longer be available, a sign of an unfortunate trend that may be spreading to their companies. Soon after the Esoterica cartridges, L&M Software released its first cartridge, MS. CANDYMAN, (Vol. 6, No. 1) an instant success for L&M and still one of the finest cartridge games to ever be made for the Astrocade system. It featured very high resolution and extremely colorful graphics, along with an outstanding musical score. Eventually, the year 1984 would see three more software manufacturers enter the cartridge game scene, with all but one being established companies who all had been producing games on tape cassettes. New Image gave us a cartridge called SNEAKY SNAKE, (Vol. 6. No. 10) a colorful underwater action game similar in concept to Astrocade's COSMIC RAIDERS, produced by Bit Fiddlers and distributed by L&M Software. Finally, and most recently, a cartridge titled MAZEMAN was put on sale by a new-comer to the marketing scene, Dave Carson, a longtime subscriber and contributor to the Arcadian. Although GAME PLAYER has received numerous letters requesting recommendations on MAZEMAN, we have not had a cartridge made available for review. As with any product that is purchased "sight unseen," we can only suggest the old adage "buyer beware." The total number of privately produced cartridge games currently available stands at seven, including the MUNCHER cartridge, which probably is the most popular game played on the Astrocade system. There is a very interesting history and story behind how this cartridge came to be, but I am afraid we are not yet at liberty to comment. (Rumor has it that the MUNCHER cartridge, was discovered at an abandoned science outpost on Omicron Ceti II by a landing party from the USS Starship Enterprise. Later, during a research mission via a space-time warp to study 1984 Earth cultures, the cartridge was accidentally beamed down and subsequently lost somewhere in San Jose, California.) The past year also saw the emergence of two new software manufacturers, specializing in taped cassettes. A company in Canada calling itself Astrogames released a four-game tape cassette simply called Tape A-1 (Vol. 6 No.1). It was and is a nice collection of games, especially at a price of only nine dollars. Later, Astrogames would release Tape A-2, (Vol. 6 No. 5) containing the games NIGHT BOMBERS and ADVENTURE, the latter of which is particularly interesting, being similar in concept to the popular Atari game PITFALL. In May, Fred Rodney Educational Software entered the market, releasing a tape cassette titled MORSE CODE TRAINER (Vol. 6 No. 4), an excellent tutorial of the "Code." His next release was ASTRO ANALYST and MEMOMAX (Vol. 6 No. 8, both), two cute brain teasers. This past year has been an optimistic one for game players everywhere in terms of new cartridges and new manufacturers. But this writer fears dark clouds may be in the distance for all who enjoy playing games on the Astrocade system. As one who reviews new games, I am always striving to stay well informed of what's happening in the area of soon-to-be-released products and games for the Astrocade. In doing so, I have noticed a trend that has me concerned. The number of games, both cartridge and tape, that have been released in the last six months, was zero. Prior to that, Fred Rodney released four tape programs, Dave Carson put out a cartridge, his first, and Astrogames produced a couple of tapes. Early in the year we saw SEA DEVIL and SNEAKY SNAKE. Granted, the summer is generally slower. But there are some facts that cannot be ignored. Remember Wavemakers, the company that produces one of the best line of tape games? No new games for over a year. Wavemakers had been producing one new game about every two to three months. And then there's the other "biggie," L&M Software. Nothing from them either for a year, not since the MS. CANDYMAN cartridge (although they did distribute Bit Fiddler's SEA DEVIL cartridge). They, too, had been averaging about four to five new releases per year. Most recently was the announcement that Esoterica Ltd. would no longer be making the BLASTDROIDS and TREASURE COVE cartridges. Why? And whatever happened to Tiny Arcade, Edge Software and the George Moses Co.? All, at one time, were major producers of Astrocade games, and all of whom have not been heard from in well over two years. I cannot give you a good or satisfactory answer. I can, however, point out that profits from videogame Arcades across the nation are down 50 percent and that a number of videogame trade magazines have folded. In my area, Washington, D.C., I can name more Arcades that have recently closed than I can those that are still in business. The key question then, is, are videogames a fad that is now passing? Industry-wide, the answer seems to be, Yes. How will this affect the Arcadian and the companies that have been making games for the Astrocade? Has the Astrocade system taken its last breath? -- Game Player [Michael Prosise] _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Mon Jan 21 17:45:11 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 22 Jan 2002 01:45:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 57214 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 01:45:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2002 01:45:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.123) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 01:45:10 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:45:10 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 01:45:10 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Game Player Reviews - Alphabetical List Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:45:10 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2002 01:45:10.0867 (UTC) FILETIME=[6DA32230:01C1A2E6] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Alphabetical List of all reviewed games in the "Game Player" columns: Title Format Company Column ----- ------ ------- ------ Adventure Tape Astrogames GP#17 Astro Analyst Tape Educational Software Systems GP#19 Astro Terror Tape The Tiny Arcade GP#2 Candy Man Tape L&M Software GP#4 Castle of Horror Tape Wavemakers GP#1 Caterpillar Tape H.A.R.D. Software GP#4 Collision Course Tape Wavemakers GP#9 Cosmic Raiders Cartridge Astrocade GP#15 Defense Professional Tape Astrogames GP#13 Dungeons of Dracula Tape Wavemakers GP#3 Exitor's Revenge Tape L&M Software GP#3 Flying Ace Tape Wavemakers GP#14 Galactic Hitchhiker Tape H.A.R.D. Software GP#4 Gamma Wars Tape Tiny Arcade GP#8 L.T. Tape Wavemakers GP#7 Lost in Space Tape Edge Software GP#5 Memomax Tape Educational Software Systems GP#19 Metro Attack Tape Astrogames GP#13 Micro Pac Tape H.A.R.D. Software GP#4 Morse Code Trainer Tape Educational Softwear Designs GP#18 Ms. Candyman Cartridge L&M Software GP#13 Music Tape George Moses Co. GP#6 Nam-Cap Tape New Image GP#5 Nautilus Tape L&M Software GP#8 Night Bombers Tape Astrogames GP#17 Omega Valley Tape The Tiny Arcade GP#2 Paper Chase, The Tape H.A.R.D. Software GP#4 Peter Piper Tape Astrogames GP#13 Road Toad Tape Esoterica, Ltd. GP#7 Sea Devil Cartridge Bit Fiddlers GP#20 Secret of Pellucitar Tape L&M Software GP#6 Sneaky Snake Cartridge New Image GP#16 Solar Conqueror Cartridge Astrocade GP#12 Super Pac Tape Astrogames GP#13 Super Slope Tape Esoterica, Inc. GP#9 The Gate Escape Tape Wavemakers GP#11 Tic Tac Tollah Tape H.A.R.D. Software GP#4 Vindicator Tape The Tiny Arcade GP#11 Wah's Revenge Tape Astrogames GP#13 _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From ward.shrake@w... Wed Jan 23 11:32:53 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 23 Jan 2002 19:32:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 91257 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 19:32:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jan 2002 19:32:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.71) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 19:32:51 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.129] by n21.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jan 2002 19:19:41 -0000 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:31:07 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: If you want a multicart, please say so now Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5137 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.3 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan If anyone out there is interested in ordering one of the Multicarts I am currently making for the Bally Astrocade system, now is a great time to do so. I just finished the fourth small batch of hand-made carts, and am about to start a fifth batch. I'm taking orders now. (These are made-to-order, not mass produced and then sold later.) For those tracking privately-produced items... my one-man assembly line has produced twenty-two (22) Bally-compatible multicarts, and sixteen (16) Emerson Arcadia 2001 compatible multicarts so far. You can read message #512 to see some typical customer feedback. To date, everyone that has commented to me privately was very happy. I have not heard any complaints from people that purchased a multicart. That's the good news. Here's the not-so-good news.... I hate to say it, but new orders already seem to be dwindling. I read message #538 with its gloomy, frightened outlook on 1984's possible future, and I had to admit to myself that I knew that bad feeling. I too am wondering how much longer things will last, before drying up? I don't like pressuring anyone to buy things, but I am sort of forced to at this point. I'd like to keep making these, as long as I can, but a simple economic "reality check" seems necessary to point out... the more money I'm making from sales of any item, the more time and effort I can justify to continue to make more of them. And vice- versa... if nearly no one wants to pay me to make more of them, then I have to first slow my pace down, and then find something else to do. The Emerson multicart was never as popular as the Bally cart was; I expected that, as did everyone else. That just reflects more interest in the Bally system, among retrogamers and collectors, and is not at all surprising. But to find myself struggling to find new customers for a totally hand-made, individually numbered item for the Bally system, after fewer than 25 sales? Wow. I hoped I would be up to about double that, before the pace of new orders began dropping off? I hope I'm wrong, but it seems to me that if something like a nice 512k multicart with pretty much every one of the old cartridge game programs for this system (and quite a few of the better tape games) isn't even a lukewarm sales item, then the chance of seeing much more new stuff produced by others for this system isn't exactly stellar? (I don't want to discourage any new efforts; I hope interest remains. I just want any other homebrewers aware of the financial realities.) As I said in my Multicart FAQ, I will keep making these items as long as I can justify the time and effort and cost associated with them. I do want to see them in the hands of many people who will enjoy having them, and playing the cool games that were made for this old system. It was easy to justify, the last couple of months; all of the people that badly wanted one, had their orders filled then. Now I'm dealing with people that claim they are interested, but have no money to pay me, about 50% of the time. Once that kind of thing is all the demand that exists, then I will definitely be spending my free time on other things; the reality of my monthly bills will give me no other choice. Some people have asked me "what new projects will you be doing next" and to that, I really have no immediate answer. I'm not at all sorry that I did this project. I'm not moaning about it, at all! It helped to pay my rent and bills for a couple of months, and for a struggling actor, that's a very big motivation to keep going with any project. But I now have a better idea of how many sales I can get for a given item, and how much time and money I'll have to invest up front to get it. I have already politely turned down requests from fans of the RCA Studio II and Fairchild Channel F systems, to make them a multicart. I can't justify the effort it would take, or the money, to do either. I am not interested in those systems, and I doubt many others are. I will leave it to others, to supply the market for those two items. I have often given thought to a VIC-20 multicart, and have a limited one mostly prototyped... but it may never go into "production". It may end up just being an item that I play with, in my own collection. It might even be more popular than the Bally, but issues of cost and technical complexity (it would take four times the memory capacity) may kill that possible project off, more or less before it begins. I had a few more ideas for other possible game-related projects, but it is just as likely that I'll end up simply taking a part-time job to come up with the money that I need to supplement my acting income. Sorry for the "doom and gloom" stuff, but I'm just trying to be open and honest. If people are waiting to buy a multicart, thinking they will be available "forever" then they're risking being a "have not". The sales peak appears to have been reached already, and the slide downwards has already begun. Better get 'em now, or regret it later. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From komb@s... Wed Jan 23 20:03:20 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 24 Jan 2002 04:03:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 59449 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 04:03:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2002 04:03:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.54) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 04:03:19 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.248.94]) by tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020124040318.JGXM4302.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:03:18 -0500 Message-ID: <3C4F8780.4020604@s...> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:03:12 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.5) Gecko/20011014 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] If you want a multicart, please say so now References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian commie_fan wrote: > If anyone out there is interested in ordering one of the Multicarts I > am currently making for the Bally Astrocade system, now is a great > time to do so. I just finished the fourth small batch of hand-made > carts, and am about to start a fifth batch. I'm taking orders now. > (These are made-to-order, not mass produced and then sold later.) > I hate to say it, but this is a rather small forum to sell to. In watching Bally/Astrocade sales on eBay et al. I'm convinced there's a larger Collecting group of our system than is represented here. Have you tried rec.games.video.classic? (If you have please disreguard.) There's always eBay...:) From ward.shrake@w... Wed Jan 23 21:06:31 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 24 Jan 2002 05:06:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 97881 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 05:06:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2002 05:06:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.59) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 05:06:30 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.163] by n9.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2002 05:06:29 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 05:06:25 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: If you want a multicart, please say so now Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3C4F8780.4020604@s...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4118 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.32 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Lance F. Squire" wrote: > > I hate to say it, but this is a rather small forum to sell to. Agreed. My post was meant to inform, as much as to promote new sales. Lots of discussions go on, about this project or that. I just don't want people thinking they can sell hundreds of their new gizmo, when my own experience indicates that a few dozen sales is more likely. I am sure more sales will trickle in over time... but not too many more. At first, I was struggling just to meet the demand. Six months later, I'm struggling to find people with both interest and money. I don't like painting a too-rosy picture; I prefer to paint what I see. > There's always eBay...:) No offense, but there's always "read the FAQ" too. I explained there in excellent detail, just why that is not a viable option. Not least among the reasons is the idea that it goes against eBay's own rules. Having been an active archivist and historian for years now, I feel like I'm always walking a very fine line. There comes a point where I'm not morally comfortable with doing more than I've already done, and that point is selling someone else's copyrighted code on eBay. It may be a fine distinction, but to me, it's still an important one. I'm actually a bit surprised at the hidden implication behind both of Lance's comments... to say this is a small forum, tends to imply that it may be a waste of time to post here. To push me towards eBay seems to imply that I'm wasting my time, dealing with 'true fans' of the system, when I could just be selling out to the highest bidder. I'm sure that wasn't intended, but the implication is there nonetheless? If I agreed with those premises, I'd abandon all non-modern games. Like I said before, I'm not sorry I did what I did. I'm glad. But I cannot ignore the financial realities of the situation much longer than I have already, and I feel that advance warning is much needed. It's just part of the "good communication" that any project requires. I've been working on my two multicart projects, pretty much full- time, since August of 2001 or before. I can't justify another six months of my life for thirty-eight sales of a hundred dollar item. I'm sure I will have a few more sales, over time? But since I have bills due each month, I'd rather get as many multicarts done at once as I could, hence my telling folks that now is the time, if they want one. Right now I have time available. Next month? Who knows... I don't? This is not a gimmick... my life is just that unpredictable. Please understand: the underlying premise that made this all possible in the first place, is incredibly fragile. Success in some other area of my life could kill the whole project, overnight. Failure in any area of my financial life would also kill the project, overnight. The tiny little window of opportunity in the middle that allows this project to go on, revolves around me finding enough new orders each month to pay my bills, since my 'day job' as an actor is equivalent to unemployment. (Actually, that would be a financial improvement.) For two months I managed to keep things afloat, with this project. I just don't see that lasting much longer? And since it takes a nearly full-time effort to keep this going, significant future change is inevitable. It took me six months of constant effort to pay my bills for two months. Who among you could afford to do that, for very long? I can't, and unfortunately my maxxed-out credit cards can prove it. The project is not over. I'll keep making these things, as long as I can. (Future sales will help knock that debt back down.) But the six- month period where I had all sorts of time on my hands -- due to all of Hollywood being all but dead -- has ended. This project just shifted its gears, from being a 'full-time' project to an 'as needed' project. I want people to be aware of the shift, and to begin to act accordingly. Get 'em while the gettin's good... Ward "Struggling Actor" Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Thu Jan 24 11:11:36 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 24 Jan 2002 19:11:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 32368 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 19:11:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2002 19:11:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.62) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 19:11:35 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.45] by n12.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2002 19:11:35 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:11:32 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: eBay insanity and DPCG 7.0 Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1958 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.217 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan Is it just me, or are some of the recent auctions being held on eBay just completely insane? After reading a new posting that was selling a thirty-year old Bally system as "new" with a starting bid over $600 USD, I just had to say something to somebody. That's mind-blowing?! I can't believe the amount of people that are paying $40 and $60 for allegedly rare cartridge items that were not even pictured, not very long ago. To me, they all sounded a LOT like carts that Mike White had made, and that he still sells to anyone who has $10 to send him? Am I the only person that has noticed that sort of thing on eBay? I realize I'm basically a cheap blankety-blank, but this seems nuts?! Here's an idea... if you know of someone that thinks they HAVE to pay $40 per cartridge to build a collection, just point them towards my multicart FAQ. I'd love the new business, and I'm sure at least a few people would be grateful to not have to mortgage their homes just to be able to have a decent amount of games for their Astrocades? It would not hurt to have a few new members reading these boards, either. At the very least, I'll be darned glad to see an updated section in the upcoming version 7.0 of the "Digital Press Collectors Guide". The outdated information found in version 6.0 and previous, has gotta go! With all the info Mike White (and others) have to offer, I'm hoping to see a MASSIVE update to that part of the guide? Too often I see misguided eBay sellers and buyers, paying $$$ for non-rare carts, or mass-produced carts like "Muncher" being sold as rare prototypes. I'm not saying anyone's doing it on purpose, but it shouldn't be taking place at all, in my opinion. A better guide section would help, lots. Larry Anderson, if you're reading this, send me your current e-mail address... I'd like to add what I could, but e-mail to you bounces. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Thu Jan 24 11:21:41 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 24 Jan 2002 19:21:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 17667 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 19:21:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2002 19:21:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.77) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 19:21:40 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.143] by n27.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2002 19:21:40 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:21:35 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Mike White's cart-building service Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1451 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.217 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan I thought I'd take a minute to plug Mike White's cart-building service, for anyone that doesn't already know about it. For $10 or so, he will build you a single cartridge of pretty much anything ever made for the Bally system. He has a 5-page catalog, online, on Adam Trionfo's "Bally Alley" web site, of what he can make available. If you only want a certain game, that's the way to go, in my opinion. Adam's web site: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/ Just click on the "Ads and Catalogs" button, then scroll all the way down. You'll see "Michael White's Catalog". Click on that link, and a whole new world of cheap and accessible software becomes available. On a related note... Adam asked me if I was going to stop working on a project that I may or may not have announced here, some time ago. (I don't recall if I did or not; I may have.) Anyway, it was about my designing a simple and cheap circuit board that Mike White could use to keep his service going when his stock of circuit boards runs out. It would also be useful to anyone wanting to make a homebrew cart of their own, once they'd written some cool new software to show off. I just want to say that project is "still alive," albeit on my usual stack of other things to do. I'll get to it again, eventually. (I had a board design roughed out, but never actually etched a prototype.) Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Thu Jan 24 14:34:53 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 24 Jan 2002 22:34:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 13721 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 22:34:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2002 22:34:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.178) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 22:34:49 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:34:49 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:34:49 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] eBay insanity and DPCG 7.0 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:34:49 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2002 22:34:49.0801 (UTC) FILETIME=[55640390:01C1A527] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo As to Mike's carts selling on ebay- it is true, and has been happening ever since his service became availanble. I mentioned this to him late in the Summer, but he wasn't bothered by it. It DOES bother me. What needs to happen about the 7.0 version of the DP Collector's Guide is a HUGE adjustment of the Astrocade area. This won't do anything for ebay buyers though. I've given up on that. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Thu Jan 24 14:35:42 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 24 Jan 2002 22:35:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 81327 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 22:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2002 22:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.89) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 22:35:42 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:35:42 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:35:41 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Working Astrocades Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:35:41 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2002 22:35:42.0149 (UTC) FILETIME=[7497AF50:01C1A527] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo How many people have Astrocades that DO work? I have three, and none of them are working right. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Thu Jan 24 14:40:58 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 24 Jan 2002 22:40:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 79343 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 22:40:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2002 22:40:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.159) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 22:40:57 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:40:57 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:40:57 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: AstroWAV? Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:40:57 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2002 22:40:57.0491 (UTC) FILETIME=[308D0E30:01C1A528] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Any progress on AstroWAV? Adam _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From komb@s... Thu Jan 24 17:48:05 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 25 Jan 2002 01:48:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 85020 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 01:48:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2002 01:48:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.73) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 01:48:04 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.249.49]) by tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020125014803.SUPO10563.tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:48:03 -0500 Message-ID: <3C50B94B.2050306@s...> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:47:55 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20020104 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] eBay insanity and DPCG 7.0 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian That guy selling the Astrovision-box/Bally Pro arcade-label system for $600+ is N U T S !!! :) He won't get it. (Though I could be wrong.) New boxed units are not nearly as rare as he thinks! I'm sure I saw one on there Nov/Dec at a reasonable price. Ebay is totaly a buyer-beware zone! If you don't know what it should cost, you WILL pay too much! However good bargans can be had....IF you're lucky. BTW, Got to witness a dead company(Name?) auction recently. I coulden't beleave that people were biding new & better prices for used computers & monitors! Insane! From komb@s... Thu Jan 24 17:55:03 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 25 Jan 2002 01:55:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 17791 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 01:55:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2002 01:55:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.35) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 01:55:02 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.249.49]) by tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020125015502.LNVJ29652.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:55:02 -0500 Message-ID: <3C50BAEF.5060605@s...> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:54:55 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20020104 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Working Astrocades References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Adam Trionfo wrote: > How many people have Astrocades that DO work? I have three, and none of > them are working right. > I have 2*. One is my 'New' main unit (with box & all). The other is my Original. *The Original has a dead memory bit. Fortunetly for BASIC it's in a graphic bit. Causes problems/exploits in some games. Won't part with either at this point though. From komb@s... Thu Jan 24 17:59:06 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 25 Jan 2002 01:59:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 74403 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 01:59:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2002 01:59:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.35) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 01:59:05 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.249.49]) by tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020125015905.LQRL29652.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:59:05 -0500 Message-ID: <3C50BBE2.5070502@s...> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:58:58 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20020104 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] AstroWAV? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Adam Trionfo wrote: > Any progress on AstroWAV? > > Adam That reminds me, I was working on the text to bas/bin(What ever)file, but got stuck on an efficient way to convert a single byte to 2 bytes odd(or even) bits.... I could do it the long way, but that would just suck! :( Lance From komb@s... Thu Jan 24 18:09:12 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 25 Jan 2002 02:09:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 44087 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 02:09:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2002 02:09:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.73) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 02:09:11 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.249.49]) by tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020125020910.TGMD10563.tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:09:10 -0500 Message-ID: <3C50BE3F.3020705@s...> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:09:03 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20020104 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: If you want a multicart, please say so now References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian My only intent was to point out that it's hard to get 50+ sales from a group with 48 members. :) You will have to look further abroad. However I would Also like to say I think this is only a subset of the total Bally/Astrocade base. (Only Those dedicated enough to seek out & hunt down other sites, information & people related to the Bally/Astrocade. ;)) Proud to be in you presence! Lance F. Squire From komb@s... Thu Jan 24 19:43:22 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 25 Jan 2002 03:43:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 56233 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 03:43:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2002 03:43:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.55) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 03:43:21 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.249.49]) by tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020125034320.QTWC25654.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:43:20 -0500 Message-ID: <3C50D452.4020806@s...> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:43:14 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20020104 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] eBay insanity and DPCG 7.0 References: <3C50B94B.2050306@s...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Lance F. Squire wrote: > That guy selling the Astrovision-box/Bally Pro arcade-label system for > $600+ is N U T S !!! :) > OOPS! Computer System label. Even more common in this condition. From jwkrych@n... Thu Jan 24 20:17:43 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 25 Jan 2002 04:17:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 57848 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 04:17:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2002 04:17:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.72) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 04:17:43 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.145] by n22.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jan 2002 04:17:41 -0000 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 04:17:40 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Internal memory expansion Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2093 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "centurion030" X-Originating-IP: 24.50.231.253 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8914535 X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 Hi all! I had been asking some other Z-80 hardware experts, and people at work for help in this. I can understand how a '138 can decode out 8 blocks of 8K for a 64K system-ours. I have seen designs with two '138s allowing for 1K decoding. What I want to do is this-Tony your help anytime! :) I want to have just a '138 and a 64K x 8 SRAM(cahce type) I want the memory to start at 6000H and continue for the rest of the available memory space, 40K left. In worst case, a regular 32K x 8 SRAM chip would do fine-only the last 8K would not be used. I know the use of a 64K x 8 cache SRAM leaves 24K unused, but that's okay-I want a single memory chip. What I am getting caught up on is the way to decode the areas wanted with one chip-and not 5 8K SRAM chips. I want this to be internal, and not needing to be placed on the outside, since there is no +5V on the expansion bus. Though, I could get it from the light-pen port. The parts will be of the HCT type, so my current drain will be very small. I have looked at the schematics of the BPA and have found that the only place for all my signals is the Z-80 itself. I looked at one of my spare BPAs-it's dead due to being on a carpeted surface! ;( And was hoping that the socketed chips-the custom ones, would have what I need. Well, NOT!!! I don't have a problem with de-soldering the Z-80 from the BPA and putting a nice 40-pin machine socket.(helps to work at a high-tech company!!!) I have excellent de-soldering stations to work with. A small circuit board with the '138 and the SRAM will sit in the socket, and the Z-80 on the top of the little daughter board. Either this or a small external board that draws from the light-pen port is what I conceive for a BPA simple memory board. Unless, we want a switch put in and an 8K EPROM(Blue RAM BASIC) that would reside at the 2000H space, cart area, and only would be activated with the switch, make darn sure no cart is in the port!!! Tell me what you think! Jim W. Krych p.s. Try out this site guys! http://www.roarvgm.com/images/devastator_9908.jpg From cybpunks@h... Fri Jan 25 09:50:45 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 25 Jan 2002 17:50:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 4223 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 17:50:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2002 17:50:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.68) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 17:50:40 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.169] by n18.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jan 2002 17:50:53 -0000 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:50:36 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Internal memory expansion Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 792 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "krishna.geo" X-Originating-IP: 4.33.175.247 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=61430873 X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo I think it should be external with power either through the light pen or a separate A/C adapter. There may be problems drawing power from the light pen port as it would put strain on the stock Bally power supply. I hope you can complete a prototype as a proof of concept! --- In ballyalley@y..., "centurion030" wrote: Either this or a small external board that draws from the light-pen port is what I conceive for a BPA simple memory board. Unless, we want a switch put in and an 8K EPROM(Blue RAM BASIC) that would reside at the 2000H space, cart area, and only would be activated with the switch, make darn sure no cart is in the port!!! Tell me what you think! > > Jim W. Krych > p.s. Try out this site guys! > http://www.roarvgm.com/images/devastator_9908.jpg From ballyalley@h... Fri Jan 25 15:22:45 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 25 Jan 2002 23:22:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 71972 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 23:22:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2002 23:22:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.224) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 23:22:44 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:22:44 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 23:22:43 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Internal memory expansion Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:22:43 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jan 2002 23:22:44.0221 (UTC) FILETIME=[311772D0:01C1A5F7] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo I'm for EXTERNAL memory expansion with external power supply. I'm rehashing some of what I said earlier, but my specs are simple: 1) Emulate a cartridge (in a similar fashion to the Blue Ram?). 2) Some method to get data to the memory expander (serial, USB, audio, thought-waves; something). 3) Could hardware be used to switch screens quickly, like a buffer? Example: move data from the expansion device to screen memory to animate screens quickly. I don't have grand ideas; I'd just like to see a simple WORKING device that any user could use without the need to open the box. Adam _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From jwkrych@n... Fri Jan 25 16:46:20 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 26 Jan 2002 00:46:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 35679 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 00:46:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2002 00:46:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.56) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 00:46:19 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.158] by n6.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2002 00:46:18 -0000 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:46:15 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Internal memory and more Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 694 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "centurion030" X-Originating-IP: 24.50.231.253 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8914535 X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 Okay! We could do an external design, using an AC adaptor. That is no problem. We could use a 128K SRAM to allow full memory, plus have a possible space for a cart decoding-once the memory was loaded with the cart. I am not certain how screen RAM could be switched, now knowing the BPA works in this area. How to load rapidly from an outside source-perhaps Chad Schell can help in this. I will contact him. We could have an 8K EPROM decoded with a switch to reside at the 2000H space. Now, I also have a though to say, and one that benefits us immediately. How about a compiler for AstroBASIC, or Blue RAM Basic? Have it written on the PC and then send the code to the BPA? Jim From fmillera@p... Fri Jan 25 18:42:40 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 26 Jan 2002 02:42:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 18050 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 02:42:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2002 02:42:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta5.snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.241) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 02:42:39 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.149]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQI005Z1Y71A6@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:42:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:42:35 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Internal memory expansion In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20020125184131.00aecf08@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_705724==_.ALT" References: From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_705724==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 05:50 PM 1/25/2002 +0000, you wrote: >I think it should be external with power either through the light pen >or a separate A/C adapter. There may be problems drawing power from >the light pen port as it would put strain on the stock Bally power >supply. Whole-heartedly agree! The power supply is already under-rated and over-taxed, much like our citizens! Cheers, Tony Miller >I hope you can complete a prototype as a proof of concept! > >--- In ballyalley@y..., "centurion030" wrote: >Either this or a small external board that draws from the light-pen >port is what I conceive for a BPA simple memory board. Unless, we >want a switch put in and an 8K EPROM(Blue RAM BASIC) that would >reside at the 2000H space, cart area, and only would be activated >with the switch, make darn sure no cart is in the port!!! > >Tell me what you think! > > > > > Jim W. Krych > > p.s. Try out this site guys! > > > http://www.roarvgm.com/ > images/devastator_9908.jpg > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_705724==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 05:50 PM 1/25/2002 +0000, you wrote:
I think it should be external with power either through the light pen
or a separate A/C adapter.  There may be problems drawing power from
the light pen port as it would put strain on the stock Bally power
supply.


Whole-heartedly agree!  The power supply is already under-rated and over-taxed, much like our citizens!

Cheers,

Tony Miller


I hope you can complete a prototype as a proof of concept!

--- In ballyalley@y..., "centurion030" <jwkrych@n...> wrote:
Either this or a small external board that draws from the light-pen
port is what I conceive for a BPA simple memory board. Unless, we
want a switch put in and an 8K EPROM(Blue RAM BASIC) that would
reside at the 2000H space, cart area, and only would be activated
with the switch, make darn sure no cart is in the port!!!

Tell me what you think!

>
> Jim W. Krych
> p.s. Try out this site guys!
> http://www.roarvgm.com/images/devastator_9908.jpg


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--=====================_705724==_.ALT-- From fmillera@p... Fri Jan 25 18:48:33 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 26 Jan 2002 02:48:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 27584 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 02:48:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2002 02:48:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta5.snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.241) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 02:48:33 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.149]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQI00DCBYGUG7@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:48:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:48:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Internal memory expansion In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20020125184313.00add3f8@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1059062==_.ALT" From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_1059062==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:22 PM 1/25/2002 -0800, you wrote: >I'm for EXTERNAL memory expansion with external power supply. I'm rehashing >some of what I said earlier, but my specs are simple: > >1) Emulate a cartridge (in a similar fashion to the Blue Ram?). > >2) Some method to get data to the memory expander (serial, USB, audio, >thought-waves; something). > >3) Could hardware be used to switch screens quickly, like a buffer? >Example: move data from the expansion device to screen memory to animate >screens quickly. > >I don't have grand ideas; I'd just like to see a simple WORKING device that >any user could use without the need to open the box. Some time ago I proposed an expansion thingy that would plug into a computer parallel port, for downloads, uploads, etc. Then everyone's computer could hold all the software, and be used as a development platform, with suitable software. The thingy would have a 64 K SRAM like currently being talked about. It would be fairly straightforward to add a DMA to transfer data to the screen as fast as the custom chips would allow. But why use BASIC (Beginner's Algorithm for Seeming Infinite Confusion)? How about something more modern, like C, C++, or as they say south of the border, Si? Cheers, Tony Miller >Adam > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: >http://photos.msn.com/support >/worldwide.aspx > > >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=919357/R=0/*http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?gloss >2+shopping:dmad/M=153641.1824646.3335993.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705006497:H >M/A=919357/R=1/1012000965+http://us.rm> > > > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_1059062==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 03:22 PM 1/25/2002 -0800, you wrote:
I'm for EXTERNAL memory expansion with external power supply.  I'm rehashing
some of what I said earlier, but my specs are simple:

1) Emulate a cartridge (in a similar fashion to the Blue Ram?).

2) Some method to get data to the memory expander (serial, USB, audio,
thought-waves; something).

3) Could hardware be used to switch screens quickly, like a buffer? 
Example: move data from the expansion device to screen memory to animate
screens quickly.

I don't have grand ideas; I'd just like to see a simple WORKING device that
any user could use without the need to open the box.

Some time ago I proposed an expansion thingy that would plug into a computer parallel port, for downloads, uploads, etc.  Then everyone's computer could hold all the software, and be used as a development platform, with suitable software.  The thingy would have a 64 K SRAM like currently being talked about.  It would be fairly straightforward to add a DMA to transfer data to the screen as fast as the custom chips would allow.

But why use BASIC (Beginner's Algorithm for Seeming Infinite Confusion)?  How about something more modern, like C, C++, or as they say south of the border, Si?

Cheers,

Tony Miller

Adam



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--=====================_1059062==_.ALT-- From fmillera@p... Fri Jan 25 19:26:35 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 26 Jan 2002 03:26:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 62530 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 02:38:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2002 02:38:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta5.snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.241) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 02:38:43 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.149]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQI002URY0GF2@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:38:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:38:38 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Internal memory expansion In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20020125183649.00aaf578@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_468894==_.ALT" From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_468894==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 04:17 AM 1/25/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Hi all! > >I had been asking some other Z-80 hardware experts, and people at >work for help in this. > >I can understand how a '138 can decode out 8 blocks of 8K for a 64K >system-ours. I have seen designs with two '138s allowing for 1K >decoding. > >What I want to do is this-Tony your help anytime! :) >I want to have just a '138 and a 64K x 8 SRAM(cahce type) I want the >memory to start at 6000H and continue for the rest of the available >memory space, 40K left. In worst case, a regular 32K x 8 SRAM chip >would do fine-only the last 8K would not be used. I know the use of a >64K x 8 cache SRAM leaves 24K unused, but that's okay-I want a single >memory chip. What I am getting caught up on is the way to decode the >areas wanted with one chip-and not 5 8K SRAM chips. If you have a 64K x 8 RAM with two chip selects, you can do this with one NOR gate (HCT02, etc). If your RAM has only a single chip select, you would have to add an OR gate (HCT32, etc.) If interested, I will post a .pdf schematic. Cheers, Tony Miller >I want this to be internal, and not needing to be placed on the >outside, since there is no +5V on the expansion bus. Though, I could >get it from the light-pen port. > >The parts will be of the HCT type, so my current drain will be very >small. > > >I have looked at the schematics of the BPA and have found that the >only place for all my signals is the Z-80 itself. I looked at one of >my spare BPAs-it's dead due to being on a carpeted surface! ;( And >was hoping that the socketed chips-the custom ones, would have what I >need. Well, NOT!!! > >I don't have a problem with de-soldering the Z-80 from the BPA and >putting a nice 40-pin machine socket.(helps to work at a high-tech >company!!!) I have excellent de-soldering stations to work with. A >small circuit board with the '138 and the SRAM will sit in the >socket, and the Z-80 on the top of the little daughter board. > >Either this or a small external board that draws from the light-pen >port is what I conceive for a BPA simple memory board. Unless, we >want a switch put in and an 8K EPROM(Blue RAM BASIC) that would >reside at the 2000H space, cart area, and only would be activated >with the switch, make darn sure no cart is in the port!!! > >Tell me what you think! > >Jim W. Krych >p.s. Try out this site guys! >http://www.roarvgm.com/i >mages/devastator_9908.jpg > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=889707/R=0/*http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?gloss >2+shopping:dmad/M=153641.1824646.3335993.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705006497:H >M/A=889707/R=1/1011932264+http://us.rm> > > > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_468894==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 04:17 AM 1/25/2002 +0000, you wrote:
Hi all!

I had been asking some other Z-80 hardware experts, and people at
work for help in this.

I can understand how a '138 can decode out 8 blocks of 8K for a 64K
system-ours. I have seen designs with two '138s allowing for 1K
decoding.

What I want to do is this-Tony your help anytime! :)
I want to have just a '138 and a 64K x 8 SRAM(cahce type) I want the
memory to start at 6000H and continue for the rest of the available
memory space, 40K left. In worst case, a regular 32K x 8 SRAM chip
would do fine-only the last 8K would not be used. I know the use of a
64K x 8 cache SRAM leaves 24K unused, but that's okay-I want a single
memory chip. What I am getting caught up on is the way to decode the
areas wanted with one chip-and not 5 8K SRAM chips.

If you have a 64K x 8 RAM with two chip selects, you can do this with one NOR gate (HCT02, etc).  If your RAM has only a single chip select, you would have to add an OR gate (HCT32, etc.)  If interested, I will post a .pdf schematic.

Cheers,

Tony Miller

I want this to be internal, and not needing to be placed on the
outside, since there is no +5V on the expansion bus. Though, I could
get it from the light-pen port.

The parts will be of the HCT type, so my current drain will be very
small.


I have looked at the schematics of the BPA and have found that the
only place for all my signals is the Z-80 itself. I looked at one of
my spare BPAs-it's dead due to being on a carpeted surface! ;( And
was hoping that the socketed chips-the custom ones, would have what I
need. Well, NOT!!!

I don't have a problem with de-soldering the Z-80 from the BPA and
putting a nice 40-pin machine socket.(helps to work at a high-tech
company!!!)  I have excellent de-soldering stations to work with. A
small circuit board with the '138 and the SRAM will sit in the
socket, and the Z-80 on the top of the little daughter board.

Either this or a small external board that draws from the light-pen
port is what I conceive for a BPA simple memory board. Unless, we
want a switch put in and an 8K EPROM(Blue RAM BASIC) that would
reside at the 2000H space, cart area, and only would be activated
with the switch, make darn sure no cart is in the port!!!

Tell me what you think!

Jim W. Krych
p.s. Try out this site guys!
http://www.roarvgm.com/images/devastator_9908.jpg





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--=====================_468894==_.ALT-- From ward.shrake@w... Mon Jan 28 18:19:14 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 29 Jan 2002 02:19:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 90335 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 02:19:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2002 02:19:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.72) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 02:19:09 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.170] by n22.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2002 02:19:09 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 02:19:06 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Internal memory and more Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 609 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.18 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "centurion030" wrote: (snip) > How to load rapidly from an outside source-perhaps Chad Schell can > help in this. I will contact him. Just one other possible thought along those lines... you guys may want to check this out: http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/crossplatform/transfer/C2N232/ This is info about a Commodore compatible device that someone I know from those circles designed and wrote up, for all to see. Parts of it may be of interest ... or not. Just offering it up, "in case". Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Tue Jan 29 15:35:35 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 29 Jan 2002 23:35:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 11049 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 23:35:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2002 23:35:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.60) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 23:35:34 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.181] by n10.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2002 23:35:34 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:35:33 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: If you want a multicart, please say so now Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3C50BE3F.3020705@s...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3435 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.186 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan ...and furthermore... Adding to my earlier gripes and/or reasons for rethinking the whole multicart project, would be the fact that I spent an incredible amount of time writing a FAQ that may as well not exist at all. No one reads the stupid thing! I'm seriously considering taking it down, after this next (short) batch of carts is made and sold, and just doing things via e-mail. I'm 99% certain that's what I will do, soon? In case you're wondering, this latest foul mood was caused by three cart cancellations, *after* the order-ees had chosen their multicart numbers, and after I had ordered the raw parts I needed to make their carts. (In other words, almost half the carts in this next batch were cancelled, making me REALLY wonder about this project's short-term?) One of the cancellees (with two carts) even talked all sorts of "wow" type stuff up front, saying I should seriously consider going through his web site, and/or selling these games through dealers. (Which made little if any sense in the first place, and made me wonder if the person had even attempted to read the FAQ I'd written? No discounts, one to a person, made to order, produced by hand, hand-numbered; all this and more had been discussed in the Multicart FAQ, and virtually all of it would have to be abandoned to fit into this person's scheme of things. Obviously, it wasn't worth their time to become informed.) Long story short, he ends by asking what the carts cost... way AFTER he had said he would buy them, he had picked his cart numbers, etc. Huh? How any responsible adult could ask what they cost, at that late point in the process, is beyond me? How they could ask it at all, when it was sitting there in the FAQ all along is just mind-boggling. The FAQ clearly and publicly states that I consider this to be a once- in-a-lifetime opportunity to get one of these items. It says I will not be making them forever. It says no cancellations are allowed after a person has told me they want to definitely put in an order, and so on. It's all meaningless. I wasted my breath completely, on those people. They cancelled and plan to come back months or years from now. Whatever. Windows of opportunity only stay open so long. People can whine all they like about we homebrew types, saying that some of us don't run their projects as well as they should. That's a two-way street; many potential customers are not overly credible in anything they say, and border on being total flakes in some ways. I am glad to say they're in the minority, but they're annoying all the same. And people like that bring on an early end to many projects, I am sure? I suspect that many of the best-known homebrew types know this all to well, and don't believe anything till "the check clears". I know that's the case, because I talked to many of them in private. I said in the FAQ that I'd be making these until the good no longer outweighed the bad. Things are beginning to tip more and more in that direction, folks. I make no promises, beyond this next small batch. I am not trying to scare anyone; that's just the reality of the matter. To all who bought one of my multicarts, and made the process pleasant for the both of us, I say a hearty and deeply felt "Thank you"! I hope you all play with and enjoy your multicarts for years to come! Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Tue Jan 29 16:04:01 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 30 Jan 2002 00:04:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 57540 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 00:04:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2002 00:04:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.128) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 00:04:00 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:04:00 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 00:04:00 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: If you want a multicart, please say so now Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:04:00 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jan 2002 00:04:00.0313 (UTC) FILETIME=[9E9C1A90:01C1A921] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo I read the mutlti-cart FAQ through several revisions and I can see how someone might not read it; Ward, it's long-- people don't read anymore. If you make the FAQ just three sentences long you will sell more multicarts. Ah, maybe not. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From bbauer@n... Tue Jan 29 20:25:48 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: bbauer@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 30 Jan 2002 04:25:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 86597 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 04:25:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2002 04:25:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail7.nc.rr.com) (24.93.67.54) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 04:25:47 -0000 Received: from johndoe ([66.26.242.251]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:25:45 -0500 Message-ID: <005a01c1a946$4b83fab0$0100a8c0@j...> To: References: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: If you want a multicart, please say so now Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:26:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Return-Path: bbauer@n... From: "Ben Bauer" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77764746 X-Yahoo-Profile: arcadenut2002 I just recieved your multicart and I can personally say I am very impressed by the quality of your work. The construction is very professionally done. I have not played it yet but I can not wait to set up my system again and play it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "commie_fan" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:35 PM Subject: [ballyalley] Re: If you want a multicart, please say so now > ...and furthermore... > > Adding to my earlier gripes and/or reasons for rethinking the whole > multicart project, would be the fact that I spent an incredible > amount of time writing a FAQ that may as well not exist at all. No > one reads the stupid thing! I'm seriously considering taking it down, > after this next (short) batch of carts is made and sold, and just > doing things via e-mail. I'm 99% certain that's what I will do, soon? > > In case you're wondering, this latest foul mood was caused by three > cart cancellations, *after* the order-ees had chosen their multicart > numbers, and after I had ordered the raw parts I needed to make their > carts. (In other words, almost half the carts in this next batch were > cancelled, making me REALLY wonder about this project's short-term?) > > One of the cancellees (with two carts) even talked all sorts of "wow" > type stuff up front, saying I should seriously consider going through > his web site, and/or selling these games through dealers. (Which made > little if any sense in the first place, and made me wonder if the > person had even attempted to read the FAQ I'd written? No discounts, > one to a person, made to order, produced by hand, hand-numbered; all > this and more had been discussed in the Multicart FAQ, and virtually > all of it would have to be abandoned to fit into this person's scheme > of things. Obviously, it wasn't worth their time to become informed.) > > Long story short, he ends by asking what the carts cost... way AFTER > he had said he would buy them, he had picked his cart numbers, etc. > > Huh? How any responsible adult could ask what they cost, at that late > point in the process, is beyond me? How they could ask it at all, > when it was sitting there in the FAQ all along is just mind-boggling. > > The FAQ clearly and publicly states that I consider this to be a once- > in-a-lifetime opportunity to get one of these items. It says I will > not be making them forever. It says no cancellations are allowed > after a person has told me they want to definitely put in an order, > and so on. It's all meaningless. I wasted my breath completely, on > those people. They cancelled and plan to come back months or years > from now. Whatever. Windows of opportunity only stay open so long. > > People can whine all they like about we homebrew types, saying that > some of us don't run their projects as well as they should. That's a > two-way street; many potential customers are not overly credible in > anything they say, and border on being total flakes in some ways. I > am glad to say they're in the minority, but they're annoying all the > same. And people like that bring on an early end to many projects, I > am sure? I suspect that many of the best-known homebrew types know > this all to well, and don't believe anything till "the check clears". > I know that's the case, because I talked to many of them in private. > > I said in the FAQ that I'd be making these until the good no longer > outweighed the bad. Things are beginning to tip more and more in that > direction, folks. I make no promises, beyond this next small batch. I > am not trying to scare anyone; that's just the reality of the matter. > > To all who bought one of my multicarts, and made the process pleasant > for the both of us, I say a hearty and deeply felt "Thank you"! I > hope you all play with and enjoy your multicarts for years to come! > > Ward Shrake > Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm > > > > Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From rich_gallo@h... Thu Jan 31 12:02:50 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich_gallo@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 31 Jan 2002 20:02:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 41309 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 20:02:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2002 20:02:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.85) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 20:02:47 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.119] by n35.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2002 20:02:23 -0000 Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 20:02:20 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: I got my MULTICART!! Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 507 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "rich_gallo_66" X-Originating-IP: 206.210.27.33 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77195557 X-Yahoo-Profile: rich_gallo_66 Just wanted to say that this is a fine piece of craftmanship! I am very excited to receive this item. I just recently got the Bally Arcade and the only reason I did was because of the availablilty of the multicart. As a classic gamer, sure collecting is fun, but I want to PLAY the games just as much. This is a great way to jump right in head first into the Bally world, and I must say for a system that is from that early era in VG history, it is an exciting piece of hardware. JOB WELL DONE! From ballyalley@h... Thu Jan 31 15:53:24 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 31 Jan 2002 23:53:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 88699 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 23:53:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2002 23:53:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.77) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 23:53:23 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:53:23 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 23:53:22 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] I got my MULTICART!! Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:53:22 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2002 23:53:23.0126 (UTC) FILETIME=[77A49560:01C1AAB2] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >> As a classic gamer, sure collecting is fun, but I want to PLAY the games just as much. >> Amazing as it seems, I havn't read that in a while, "I want to PLAY." It's a breath of fresh air. It sure looks cool to have all these pieces of plastic [cartridges], but after a while I started asking myself, what the heck am I going to do with this plastic? And it's so HEAVY. And takes up so much ROOM. Okay, I'm making excuses, but yes, multicarts are COOL. >> This is a great way to jump right in head first into the Bally world, and I must say for a system that is from that early era in VG history, it is an exciting piece of hardware. >> The Bally is exciting (even when NOT from that era), but most people find it hard to come acorss the hardware, and well, that makes it really hard to use any carts, even a multicart. Thankfully Jim is going to make a Turbo Supercharged Twin-Rocket Engine MB replacment, but it will only work on the White Bally. [wink] Adam _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail servi