From ballyalley@h... Thu Feb 08 17:19:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 01:19:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 3348 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 01:19:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 01:19:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 01:19:06 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.10.123] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2001 01:19:05 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 01:19:02 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: The beginning of the group Message-ID: <95vgi6+p55v@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 285 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" Today, February 8, 2001, marks the beginning of the Astrocade discussion group. This is the day when the Astrocade community begins to have a place to meet and call our own. Anyone want to start off discussing who we are, what we do, and how we use our Astrocades? Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Thu Feb 08 23:53:19 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 81376 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 07:53:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 07:53:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 07:53:18 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.4.74] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2001 07:53:18 -0000 Date: 9 Feb 2001 07:53:17 -0000 Message-ID: <981705197.248.28604.k12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the ballyalley group: Assume that we were able to put together a RAM expansion device that offered at least 64K of RAM, a way to load games to it from the PC (or also audio), and also allowing for the use of "commercial mode" graphics (320x200 rather than the stock 160x102), what would you be willing to pay for it? o $20-40 o $41-60 o $61-80 o $81-100 To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Thu Feb 08 23:58:28 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10418 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 07:58:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 07:58:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 07:58:28 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.225] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2001 07:58:27 -0000 Date: 9 Feb 2001 07:58:24 -0000 Message-ID: <981705504.1454.33257.s2@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the ballyalley group: Would you like to participate in the creation of a Bally CD-ROM and/or ram expansion device? Assume some technical knowledge of Z80 assembler, graphic art, and electrical engineering would be required. o Yes, I think I can help o No, I don't think I can help o I'd like to learn more through this list so can be in a position to help o I'm just here to offer advice o No, but I may learn how to write for it if this stuff comes out To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Thu Feb 08 23:58:58 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11127 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 07:58:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 07:58:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 07:58:58 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.225] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2001 07:58:58 -0000 Date: 9 Feb 2001 07:58:57 -0000 Message-ID: <981705537.73.33163.s2@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the ballyalley group: Have you ever written a Bally Basic program? o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From cybpunks@m... Fri Feb 09 00:51:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 08:51:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 52663 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 08:51:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 08:51:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO b05.egroups.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 08:51:51 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@m... Received: from [10.1.2.11] by b05.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2001 08:51:51 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 08:51:49 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: hi Message-ID: <960b35+1020r@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1370 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.165.162.215 From: cybpunks@m... I don't have an Astrocade right now, mostly because I'm waiting for the availability of a useful RAM expansion. I was a little disappointed to find out after a rosy childhood experience of being envious of Astrocade owners, that Bally Basic only allows for 1800 bytes of RAM (plus anything you want to steal away from the 1-bit framebuffer display it presents). Nevertheless, I do know that there are plenty of interesting games that could be written in that narrow a space. From what I read on Bally Alley, the OS routines contain quite a bit of functions that you can access. However, from today's perspective, I think what is most intriguing is to unlock the hidden "commercial mode" 320x200 graphics of the Astrocade. Even the Blue Ram didn't really let you get at this very well because it was released in an era when RAM was still a bit pricey. I'd love to see some new games be written to access a RAM expansion, whether they be loaded into RAM, or in ROM but using the RAM like a N64 RAMPACK kind of thing. Of course I'd also love to see a Stella Gets a New Brain kind of product for the Astrocade as well. But it's only going to happen if we all pull together and make it happen. So I'm hoping that people start joining the list and get the ball rolling. I'm going to put some links to the group on my homepage, for one... --Glenn From hsawtelle@h... Fri Feb 09 06:57:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: hsawtelle@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 14:57:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 38813 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 14:57:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 14:57:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cj.egroups.com) (10.1.2.82) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 14:57:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: hsawtelle@h... Received: from [10.1.2.36] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2001 14:57:41 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 14:57:41 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: The beginning of the group Message-ID: <9610h5+o8df@e...> In-Reply-To: <95vgi6+p55v@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 907 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.71.228.4 From: hsawtelle@h... I am not a technician, just a classic gamer and collector. Thus I will not be able to contribute much in the way of programming or circuit design, but I will be an enthusiastic alpha/beta tester and user of whatever the group comes up with. I have a Bally and about 15 games. It is one of my favorite systems, along with the Intellivision, Vectrex, and Atari 5200. My programming knowledge is limited to BASIC. I learned BASIC on a Vic-20 in the early 1980's and I have written a few silly Astrocade basic progs to amuse myself. --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Today, February 8, 2001, marks the beginning of the Astrocade > discussion group. This is the day when the Astrocade community > begins to have a place to meet and call our own. > > Anyone want to start off discussing who we are, what we do, and how > we use our Astrocades? > > Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Fri Feb 09 08:41:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 16:41:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 99240 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 16:41:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 16:41:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 16:41:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.10.93] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2001 16:41:41 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 16:41:39 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: On the Astrocade's 256 color and High-res mode Message-ID: <9616k3+gc4n@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2772 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" There is much talk about the high-res mode on the Astrocade. Bret Bilbrey (programmer of the Bally cart ICBM Attack) describes how the high-res mode works in an article on page three of the July 1982 issue of Astobugs. You can check out this newsletter at: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/astrobugs/astrobugs_newsletter _july_1982.pdf Following is most of the article called "From the Inside Cover." "Since this is my first column, let me first introduce myself. I've been working and playing with Astrocade (Bally), since 1977. I've contributed to the Arcadian, Cursor, and the New Basic Manual. I'm 22 years old, recently engaged, and about to graduate from the University of Michigan with, with an Electrical Engineering degree. Because of my programming background and knowledge of the Astrocade, I've been hired recently to design new cartridges for Astrocade, Inc. Currently, I am responsible for the new Missile Attack cartridge (#2020). I would like to try to answer your questions in future issues, so send them in. Also, we will have a question and answer period at the meetings, but please be prepared with any questions you want to ask!!!! This time I would like to answer a question I'm asked often. "Can we make our game high resolution?" First, what is high resolution? The Astrocade's graphic resolution is 160 pixels across by 101 top to bottom. A pixel is the smallest box the game can make. Now, high resolution is 320 pixels across by 202 from top to bottom. In high resolution, a pixel is smaller than in low resolution. Therefore, the graphics are better. Now, for some bad news... it is very expensive to modify a game to make it high resolution (about $300). Also, if you did convert your game to high resolution, you would have to redesign or rewrite your games internal software. What this all means is that right now, we have to be happy with our normal resolution. Now, for a little good news. At our last meeting, one of the things Mr. Perkins showed us was a unit he modified to work in high resolution. As of yet, he has not written the software to make it work. In fact, I don't know of anyone working on high resolution software at this time. Needless to say, right now high resolution is not practical, but perhaps we will see some working high resolution units in the future." That is what Bret had to say almost twenty years ago. The question is, is high-res mode economically feasible now? This is something that James Krych wants to know, as do the rest of us. Adam Trionfo BTW - I originally posted this (in a slightly different form) on November 5, 2000 in the newsgroup rec.games.video.classic and I am posting it here since it is worthy of some attention. From ballyalley@h... Fri Feb 09 13:52:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 21:52:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 85764 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 21:52:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 21:52:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.100) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 21:52:36 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:52:35 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 21:52:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Astrocade Museum Entry Help Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:52:35 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Feb 2001 21:52:35.0948 (UTC) FILETIME=[9CEDFAC0:01C092E2] From: "Adam Trionfo" I was asked by ClassicGaming.com (the folks that host the Bally Alley web site) to write the entry for their museum. This is what I told them: "I'll contact some other Astrocade fans, and between us, we can get an entry for the museum that is quite robust. It will probably take a few weeks, but it WILL happen." I'll write something, then I'll pitch it to the group and see what people have to add. Before I begin though, there are a few history holes that I would like filled. Does anyone know when Astrovision stopped marketing the Astrocade? Did it stop in 1985? Who owns the rights to the Astrocade hardware and the ROMs? Anyone have any contact with third party Astrocade people? Any history NOT in the Astrocade FAQ would be useful. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Fri Feb 09 14:16:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 22:16:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 55688 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 22:16:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 22:16:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.140) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 22:16:04 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:16:04 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:16:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Copyright Holders: Where Are These People? Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 14:16:04 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Feb 2001 22:16:04.0631 (UTC) FILETIME=[E491F270:01C092E5] From: "Adam Trionfo" I am unable to put Astrocade ROM images on the Bally Alley web site (various reasons). This gives me some needed motivation. I am trying to find out who owns the copyright for the Astrocade ROMs. I want to include the ROMs on the Astrocade CD, but I will only do that if I can get the rights to the ROMs legally. Maybe the current copyright holder will allow certain ROMs to be used freely, perhaps not games like The Incredible Wizard, but others (that is the hope anyway). Wouldn't it be nice if the Astrocade emulator could be distributed with the Bally System ROM (both versions) and ROMs? Who holds the copyright for: Bally System ROM and ROM cartridges Third-party ROMs? Third-party cassette games (which ones were PD?) Does anyone know where to find these people? Fred Cornett (publisher of Cursor) Mike Peace (Published MANY cassette games) John Perkins (Perkins Engineering, maker of the Blue Ram RAM expansion) Jamie Fenton, the writer of Bally BASIC, would like to see Bally BASIC become open source. She has made some movement in that direction already-- not sure how much though. Even if you only know who the last holder was fifteen years ago, that COULD help. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From cybpunks@m... Fri Feb 09 16:32:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 00:32:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 3286 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 00:32:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 00:32:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c3.egroups.com) (10.1.10.50) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 00:32:45 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@m... Received: from [10.1.10.98] by c3.egroups.com with NNFMP; 10 Feb 2001 00:32:45 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:32:40 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: On the Astrocade's 256 color and High-res mode Message-ID: <962278+5b36@e...> In-Reply-To: <9616k3+gc4n@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 645 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.92 From: cybpunks@m... >> That is what Bret had to say almost twenty years ago. The question is, is high-res mode economically feasible now? This is something that James Krych wants to know, as do the rest of us. << The memory for such a thing would be miniscule in cost. The only cost to worry about is the PCB manufacturing, or maybe some cost for a programmable gate array chip (which would be a good way to go as it helps simplify the board design considerably). Just look at things like the Intellicart and devices of that flavor for precedent. I think it could be sold for less than $100 today. Maybe as low as $60 if it were done for no profit. From jwkrych@n... Fri Feb 09 16:42:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 00:42:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 99331 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 00:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 00:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 00:42:50 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: jwkrych@n... Received: from [10.1.2.240] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 10 Feb 2001 00:42:50 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:42:47 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hi Guys! Message-ID: <9622q7+ee1d@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4881 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 216.28.79.113 From: jwkrych@n... My name is Jim Krych! I am a 31 year old Electronics Tech working currently for Keithley Instruments. The instruments I am working with all have through-hole technology, so I have become very good at desoldering and soldering professionally. This will help with any future project we do, since I really doubt we will need to have SMT parts! I have dual-diplomas, one in Electronics Technology with Microprocessors, 6809 coding, and my current one is Computer Programming and Operations, just 9 more C lessons to go! I have project and hardware design experience. For the TI community, it was the AEMS/AMS/SuperAMS projects. In which I was the project manager, as well as building the initial AEMS 128K SRAM prototype, from the deisng of my hardware engineer. This project enabled the TI to have a 1 MB expanded memory systems, using a memory mapper. For the SuperAMS, I also worked with the PCB designer, and did the contract quoting, and the specs, plus debugging the prototype PCB we had made. My next project after that was the VideoTurtle, which is a scan convertor that takes TV RGB, 15.75KHz RGB, and converts it into S- Video, and composite upon request. I am also currently getting ready to finish a prototype of something for the retrogaming crowd. So, I am experienced with both memory expansion, and video. I also have a fellow tech at Keithley who enjoys programming Z80 machine code, and hardware design as well. This will really helps us out, he has expressed an interest in joining us in this. John will be getting back with me. I have been a Bally fan since 1983, when I read the Ken Uston book. I have owned a Bally since 1987-1988. And even back then, was interested in having a SRAM memory expansion for it! My immediate concern/project, is the video output of the Bally. We are really blessed that the Bally custom chipset was used in several arcade games by Bally itself. This means we can look to what they did. As such, I did D/L the Nutting Manual, the Bally Service Manual, and the Wizzard of Wor manual. As well as a bunch of others from Bally Alley! WOW takes the RY,BY of the chipset, and converts that into an RGB output. I have looked at the schematics, and that design is fairly simple, yet I do not know if we can get the same parts they used. However, I did get an RY,BY convertor circuit off of the Internet. I need to have a few more questions answered by the author, and then go on from there. Also, I am looking at the combining of the chroma and luma signals to get a color composite video signal out. This will relieve us of that nasty RF junk, and save our aging eyes! I suspect that the luma out was also used in any mono arcade games that Bally did, that used the chipset. SO that is my most immediate project/concern for this. I have a unit that probably needs a few RAM chips replaced, but does output a display of sorts, I can use that one for testing purposes. Now, for something very near and dear. The Commercial Mode of the chipset allows for 320x204 resolution. The Bally is set to Consumer mode, which is 160x102. This mode needs 4K, which is what we have. The Commercial Mode requires 16K. Starting at the same address as the 4K. So, we have two decisions: 1.) Do we disable and have a separate 16K on the motherboard, as a daughter board, or such? 2.) Can we include the extra 12K off system through the expansion bus? Which will also include extra memory, or a memory mapper and a 128K/512K SRAM(which are $19.95 now). Also, we need to set output port 08H to 01H. This sets the chipset to Commercial Mode. I suspected that the arcade games did this, and here is my proof. I dissassembled the first 4K ROM of WOW. And sure enough, in the first few instructions, code was there to immediately turn the chipset into Commercial Mode! To wit: ; Disassembly of the file "C:\My Documents\DZ80\wow.x1" ; ; Created with dZ80 v1.31 ; ; on Monday, 01 of January 2001 at 09:17 PM ; di ld sp,#d400 ld a,#01 out (#08),a I haven't looked at the rest of the code, but I presume maze info and such is in there. What would be ideal is the following: Is John Perkins still around, and does he have his modified Bally for high-res? Or, does anyone have that Z-Grass manual, and the schematics for it? Now, the problem is that the Blue Ram starts at 6000H for it's memory. Which is fine for a low res systems. But!!! HIGH RES needs 4000H to 7FFFH for it's full 16K buffer. The rest of the memory, the last 32K, is available for expansion. So, we have a dilema. But, I have said quite a bit for now. I will give Adam my buddy John's email. I will also email John with the URL of Bally Alley. So he can start D/L the manuals. I am looking forward to working with you guys! Regards, Jim W. Krych "centurion030" From ward.shrake@w... Fri Feb 09 17:48:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 01:48:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 65753 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 01:48:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 01:48:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ci.egroups.com) (10.1.2.81) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 01:48:36 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.34] by ci.egroups.com with NNFMP; 10 Feb 2001 01:48:36 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 01:48:33 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hello, folks. Message-ID: <9626lh+3rck@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1500 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.72.152.91 From: "Ward Shrake" Just chiming in to say that I'm a member of the group, and plan to contribute if and when I can. Problem is, my overall hobby time is limited, and it is already spread pretty thinly among various things. I'll do what I can, when I can, between other retro gaming projects. Here is a link to an article I wrote, about how to photo etch things. If the group gets to the point of making circuit boards, I know how to do that. For those that don't, the article should be a good start. http://home.att.net/~ward.shrake/modeling/fotoetch.htm Sooner or later, I plan to work on making multi-carts for various obscure systems, including the Bally Astrocade. (Be forewarned that this is strictly a "when I feel like it and have the time to work on it" project!) I've wanted to do it for years, just to be doing it. I'm working on this project as a modular design, so that once I design up one working set of memory-addressing dipswitches, for instance, I can just cut-and-paste it into a new PC board design. (I have something proto-typed, but have not tested it as yet.) I also have some limited plastic's molding capability, which might be useful for making things like little bezels around the dipswitches, etc. If any of this gets anywhere in our current lifetimes, I'll post specifics on my web sites, so that others can also follow along. Ward "Slow as a snail" Shrake VIC-20 web site: http://classicgaming.com/vic20/ Emerson Arcadia web site: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/ From cybpunks@m... Sat Feb 10 13:06:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 21:06:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 2550 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 21:06:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 21:06:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls01.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.20) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 21:06:06 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1AL65j24763 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:06:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010210125206.02c093b0@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:07:41 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Blue Ram In-Reply-To: <981832982.218.8338.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders At 07:23 PM 2/10/2001 +0000, you wrote: >enabled the TI to have a 1 MB expanded memory systems, using a memory 1MB for the TI 99/4A?? >Also, I am looking at the combining of the chroma and luma signals to >get a color composite video signal out. This will relieve us of that >nasty RF junk, and save our aging eyes! I suspect that the luma out >was also used in any mono arcade games that Bally did, that used the >chipset. Composite will be fine for the consumer mode. If we get commercial mode working, artifacting will kick in and the only way to get crisp video will be Y/C. RGB is nice but only of interest to those of us lucky enough to have things like C= 1084s around (I have a 1080 myself.) >1.) Do we disable and have a separate 16K on the motherboard, as a >daughter board, or such? The Nutting manual does say that commercial mode is available with RAM expansions. ZGrass was going to use it. So I'm sure the S-100 bus can map memory anywhere. The Blue RAM can remap into the cart address range so I'm sure the S-100 can force the Astrocade to forsake the internal RAM and the cart ROM and just look to the S-100 bus for all 65535 bytes of the Z80's addressing range. >Also, we need to set output port 08H to 01H. This sets the chipset to Can't this be done on a program by program basis? Does it need to be set only when the machine powers on? >Is John Perkins still around, and does he have his modified Bally for >high-res? I told Adam that when it comes to finding people, it shouldn't be that hard, if you employ Yahoo people search, make a few phone calls, and worst case, hire a people finder for $50 or something. It's all a matter of taking the initiative. >Now, the problem is that the Blue Ram starts at 6000H for it's >memory. Which is fine for a low res systems. But!!! For the record, I think merely cloning the Blue RAM would be a bad idea, for reasons like this. It would be better to have a fresh approach from a modern perspective, i.e. Banked RAM beyond 64K, no needless holes in the RAM address range like the above illustrates, and high speed I/O as a priority (for loading programs from the PC). The Blue RAM is a good starting point, though. From ballyalley@h... Sat Feb 10 13:30:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 21:30:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 12654 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 21:30:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 21:30:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.48) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 22:31:42 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:30:36 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:30:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RGB and S-video Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:30:36 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2001 21:30:36.0800 (UTC) FILETIME=[B511B800:01C093A8] From: "Adam Trionfo" >RGB is nice but only of interest to those of us lucky enough to have > >things like C= 1084s around (I have a 1080 myself.) I've read that Commodore 1084 monitors (and the like) can accept an S-video signal. Doesn't it work the other way around too? If so, then most modern TVs could accept RGB signals from, say, an Amiga-- right? If this is true (please, enlighten me), then it wouldn't hurt for the RAM unit to have RGB. But really, regardless, it wouldn't need it, and adding it might not be cost effective. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Sat Feb 10 13:45:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 21:45:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 65773 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 21:45:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 21:45:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.94) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 21:45:00 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:44:59 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:44:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New docs at ballyalley.com Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:44:59 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2001 21:44:59.0833 (UTC) FILETIME=[B77A1A90:01C093AA] From: "Adam Trionfo" February 10, 2001 I've uploaded some new manuals to ballyalley.com Blue Ram Keyboard Owners Manual Spectre Controller docs Various cartridge manuals (about fifteen of them) I have also been scanning in issues of "Cursor." Not sure if I will put these up yet though. I am trying to find Fred Cornett first. These newsletters, like the "Arcadian," are jammed full of useful information, quite a bit of it hardware related. I contacted Robert Fabris about posting "Arcadian" issues (I have Arcadian issues through Oct, 1984-- anyone have the rest?). He sent me a brief message today saying that he would follow-up soon (I asked him quite a number of questions). I've talked to him before about contributing to the Astrocade CD, and he is still interested. Over the next week or so, I'm going to go through the archives of RVGC and post to the discussion group information that is Astrocade related and still relevant. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jwkrych@n... Sat Feb 10 16:01:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 11 Feb 2001 00:01:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 60776 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 00:01:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 11 Feb 2001 00:01:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 01:02:55 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.202] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A6103600070; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 19:00:16 -0500 Message-ID: <004401c093c0$67de4e00$ca4f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010210125206.02c093b0@p...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Blue Ram Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 19:20:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01C09396.7E3EDB80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C09396.7E3EDB80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Guys! This is in response to both Adam's and Glenn's inquiries.=20 Adam, the European TV's accept RGB in through their SCART connectors. Howev= er, that is PAL frequency. Many modern TV's here accept composite and S-Vid= eo. There were some TV's a while back that did accept RGB, but they are few= and far between. Glenn is right, composite will do fine for consumer mode work. When we get = into Commercial Mode though, we will need either RGB or S-Video, for that e= xtra and crisp clarity. I am in touch with the authors of RY,By conversion circuits, so I should be= hearing back soon from them. Glenn, the TI 99/4A was able to have 1MB by use of the 74LS(laterHCT)612 me= mory mapper. It used 4K pages, and allowed us to page in from anywhere we a= llowed the mapper registers to be mapable. Such as 2,3 and A,B,C,D,E,F. Whi= ch corresponded to the lower 8K and the upper 24K of the TI. The Blue Ram just allows the 2000H area to be decoded out, so the RAM memor= y becomes a cart to the system. They probably used a '138 to decode out the= addresses to be used. Simple stuff. We can do the same in regards to the B= ally. The upper 32 memory can become a window to a 1 MB memory mountain. Us= ing 4K pages. The TI book I have shows a block diagram for a Z80 to the '61= 2 to allow a 1 MB memory system. The mapper registers would be 8,9,A,B,C,D,= E, and F mapable.=20 I must admit that I haven't gone through the entire Nutting Manual. I went = to the video section alone. Glenn, can you show me which page you found tha= t info on? If that is indeed the case, then for testing only, the 4K will b= e disabled, and a 32K SRAM, with a '138 decoding out the 4000H and 6000H bl= ocks(8K each). We get a screen display upon powerup, we can then go into Ba= lly Basic, or someone who has the machine language monitor cart(better), an= d start the testing there. No, port 08H must be set to 01H on a program by program basis. Not just for= a one shot deal. I was just stating how to set the chips into that mode. There is several ways to handle the dilema of conflicting memory usage. Esp= ecially once we get high-res. I think a separate SRAM chip, decoded for the= screen RAM locations, and to allow high-res, plus a mapper-based system th= at uses the upper 32K as a window, plus a fast-PC interface, would do fine = for what we need to do.=20 Alright! We seem to be getting what we need started in regards to ideas! Talk to you guys soon! Jim =20=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C09396.7E3EDB80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Guys!
 
This is in response to both Adam's and Glenn's inquirie= s.=20
 
Adam, the European TV's accept RGB in through their SCA= RT=20 connectors. However, that is PAL frequency. Many modern TV's here accept=20 composite and S-Video. There were some TV's a while back that did accept RG= B,=20 but they are few and far between.
 
Glenn is right, composite will do fine for consumer mod= e work.=20 When we get into Commercial Mode though, we will need either RGB or S-Video= , for=20 that extra and crisp clarity.
 
I am in touch with the authors of RY,By conversion circ= uits,=20 so I should be hearing back soon from them.
 
Glenn, the TI 99/4A was able to have 1MB by use of the= =20 74LS(laterHCT)612 memory mapper. It used 4K pages, and allowed us to page i= n=20 from anywhere we allowed the mapper registers to be mapable. Such as 2,3 an= d=20 A,B,C,D,E,F. Which corresponded to the lower 8K and the upper 24K of the=20 TI.
 
The Blue Ram just allows the 2000H area to be decoded o= ut, so=20 the RAM memory becomes a cart to the system. They probably used a '138= to=20 decode out the addresses to be used. Simple stuff. We can do the same in re= gards=20 to the Bally. The upper 32 memory can become a window to a 1 MB memory moun= tain.=20 Using 4K pages. The TI book I have shows a block diagram for a Z80 to the '= 612=20 to allow a 1 MB memory system. The mapper registers would be 8,9,A,B,C= ,D,E,=20 and F mapable.
 
I must admit that I haven't gone through the entire Nut= ting=20 Manual. I went to the video section alone. Glenn, can you show me which pag= e you=20 found that info on? If that is indeed the case, then for testing only, the = 4K=20 will be disabled, and a 32K SRAM, with a '138 decoding out the 4000H and 60= 00H=20 blocks(8K each). We get a screen display upon powerup, we can then go into = Bally=20 Basic, or someone who has the machine language monitor cart(better), and st= art=20 the testing there.
 
No, port 08H must be set to 01H on a program by pr= ogram=20 basis. Not just for a one shot deal.  I was just stating how to set th= e=20 chips into that mode.
 
There is several ways to handle the dilema of conflicti= ng=20 memory usage. Especially once we get high-res. I think a separate SRAM chip= ,=20 decoded for the screen RAM locations, and to allow high-res, plus a mapper-= based=20 system that uses the upper 32K as a window, plus a fast-PC interface, would= do=20 fine for what we need to do.
 
Alright! We seem to be getting what we need started in = regards=20 to ideas!
 
Talk to you guys soon!
 
Jim
  
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C09396.7E3EDB80-- From cybpunks@m... Sat Feb 10 22:17:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 11 Feb 2001 06:17:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 20438 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 06:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 11 Feb 2001 06:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fg.egroups.com) (10.1.2.134) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 06:17:16 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@m... Received: from [10.1.10.121] by fg.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2001 06:17:16 -0000 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 06:17:12 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: RGB and S-video Message-ID: <965ap8+jntv@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2059 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.165.162.215 From: cybpunks@m... > I've read that Commodore 1084 monitors (and the like) can accept an S-video > signal. Doesn't it work the other way around too? If so, then most modern Yes, C= monitors can accept RGB, Y/C, or composite. The Y/C is in the form of dual RCAs because these monitors predate S-VHS (which was the first use of the S-Video cable for Y/C, otherwise known as chroma- luma). So you need to build an S-Video->dual RCA adapter to plug consumer S-video cables into a C= monitor. There are also at least two ways to plug into a C= RGB monitor, DB9 and a DIN connector. I think also there are two genders on the DB9 depending on the model but that's easy to fix with a gender changer. That's what I need to do with my Amiga and my 1080 with the particular cable that I have. However, regular TVs tend to only have composite video in, if that. These days most TVs have composite video in because most consumer electronics devices which are in use today are geared towards that, and have finally abandoned RF. Most videogame consoles, pretty much all VCRs, etc... output composite video directly. S-video is getting more common but tends to be limited to the larger mid-priced televisions. There are no RGB-capable NTSC monitors available at reasonable prices unless you wanted to use a raw arcade monitor. The C= or Atari monitors are the only option, and unfortunately they are small (13"). I don't think it really costs that much more to make TVs with all the ports, but they chintz out. Europeans have enjoyed SCART (which has all these signals) on most of their TVs for years, but we don't get that. > (please, enlighten me), then it wouldn't hurt for the RAM unit to have RGB. The RAM unit wouldn't likely have the A/V mod on it. The A/V mod would have to be an internal modification. The A/V signals do not, that I know of, directly route to the S-100 bus, so they'd have to get tapped on the motherboard directly. I understand the confusion, though, since most modern consoles have an A/V expansion slot in the rear. From cybpunks@m... Sat Feb 10 23:19:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 11 Feb 2001 07:19:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 99303 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 07:19:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 11 Feb 2001 07:19:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 07:19:54 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@m... Received: from [10.1.4.74] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2001 07:19:53 -0000 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 07:19:52 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Blue Ram Message-ID: <965eeo+8f59@e...> In-Reply-To: <004401c093c0$67de4e00$ca4f1cd8@j...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5501 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.165.162.215 From: cybpunks@m... >1 MB memory mountain. Using 4K pages. The TI book I have shows a >block diagram for a Z80 to the '612 to allow a 1 MB memory system. >The mapper registers would be 8,9,A,B,C,D,E, and F mapable. Is 4K a good size for the banking window? It seems rather small. The Atari 8-bit, for instance, used a 16K banking window. That seems like a healthier size, don't you think? >I must admit that I haven't gone through the entire Nutting Manual. >I went to the video section alone. Glenn, can you show me which page >you found that info on It didn't go into that much detail from what I read. It just said that with a RAM expansion, this was possible. I was just commenting on the feasibility of it, since the ZGrass prototypes were already doing just that. It's hard to tell exactly what the Nutting manual was referring to with the Bally hardware. It could have been just a spec of the raw prototype machine as it was before it became an actual finished product. Conceivably, the Bally itself may have constraints that the original design didn't have in it. However, I don't think this is the case. The reason it seems that way to me is the emphasis on how it sat on the fence between a game machine and a home computer Nutting manual highlights: Page 39 (keyframed animation system, pretty cool sounding) Page 58 (integrated music sequencing, also cool sounding) Page 81 (system overview) "The system exists in both high-resolution and low-resolution models. The three custom chips can operate in either mode. The mode of operation is determined by bit 0 of output port 8H. It must be set to 0 for low resolution and 1 for high resolution. This bit is not set to 0 at power up but must be set by software before any RAM operations can be performed. In Both the low and high resolution models, the operating system ROM is in the first 8K of memory space. The silicon cassette ROM [i.e. cartridge] is in the space from 8K to 16K. The standard screen RAM begins at 16K. In the low resolution unit, the standard screen RAM is 4K bytes. In the high resolution unit it is 16K bytes. Magic screen RAM begins at location 0. It is the same size as standard screen RAM. All memory above 32K is available for expansion. In the low-resolution unit, memory space 20K to 32K is available for expansion." Then the diagrams follow, and the only difference between the two units is the amount of stock screen RAM. The expanded ram available starts RIGHT AFTER screen RAM ends. SILICON CASSETTE is the Bally terminology for a cartridge ROM. This memory space is absent in the hires unit, because the hires unit must refer to the arcade architecture where the game code is fixed. I'm also assuming that Magic RAM area would expand whenever you set the chips to commercial mode. BTW, the MAGIC RAM is like a kind of blitter of bit manipulation area. (see page 94 onward) Page 93 (Screen interrupt) "it can be used in conjunction with the color registers to make as many as 256 color-intensity combinations appear on the screen at the same time." Regarding memory management, check out page 111. The Microcycler limits the system to seeing only 4K (12 bits) of screen RAM. The block diagram shows the extender plug (probably the S-100 bus) as connecting BEHIND the microcycler, directly to the Z80. I'm guessing that in commercial mode the memory would need to replace the 4K on board. I don't think the system will be able to read the 4K anymore (in combination with outboard memory) when it kicks into commercial mode because of the shift in the memory management scheme. There isn't an actual pinout of the S-100 port in the Nutting manual, unfortunately. S-100 varied a lot from machine to machine, so we probably can't assume anything about it. > No, port 08H must be set to 01H on a program by program basis. Not just for a one shot deal. I was just stating how to set the chips into that mode. The thing it said was that it has to be set before there is any RAM access. I don't know if that means before any writes, or before any read/write to the 16K area where screen RAM can reside. I think it's the latter, as this would facilitate running programs from extended RAM. It will probably be necessary to create a new cartridge for this RAM expansion that starts the system out in commercial mode. Other problems I can see is how to handle memory contention with the ROM space (which we know that the Blue Ram can fix) and the Magic RAM and OS ROM area. In commercial mode, the Magic Ram area wil be 16K in size. Assuming we have full 64K hanging off the Bally at any one time, only 32K will be available for program space at once. The rest will be screen RAM, OS ROM, and magic RAM. If there were a way to temporarily bank-switch out this stuff (like the Atari XL/XE can do, and its predecessor, the 400/800 could not) then that might be useful. As some people may not know, no 8-bit home computer ever sees all 64K of RAM at one. Because the hardware, the OS, and the cart ROM has to expose itself through the memory map, it punches holes in the address range. I don't know how, for instance, the C=64 handles this, but I think most other systems have a banking control byte to gain access to the RAM in these areas, like the Atari. I think the Apple II was like the Atari 400/800 in only being able to access up to 48K of RAM at a time, leaving the rest for ROM/hardware register access... From palazzol@h... Sun Feb 11 08:55:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: palazzol@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 11 Feb 2001 16:55:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 87075 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 16:55:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2001 16:55:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fh.egroups.com) (10.1.2.135) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 16:55:55 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: palazzol@h... Received: from [10.1.10.125] by fh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2001 16:55:55 -0000 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 16:55:50 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hello Message-ID: <966g6m+jf0g@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 399 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.2.73.141 From: palazzol@h... Hi there, I'm the guy who put the Astrocade emulation into MESS. I'm hoping to get feedback on the emulation, so that I can go back to it when I have some free time. I'd also like to address technical questions if possible, since I'm pretty familiar with the hardware. One thing I know is in complete is the emulation of the noise generator that is part of the sound chip. Thanks, Frank From jwkrych@n... Sun Feb 11 15:45:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 11 Feb 2001 23:45:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 21488 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 23:45:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2001 23:45:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 23:45:44 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.131] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A3C9B9C80130; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:44:09 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c09487$533d5c80$834f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <966g6m+jf0g@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Hello Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:04:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C0945D.69733080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C0945D.69733080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Frank! How complete is the emulation of the custom chipset inregards to the consum= er/commercial modes that are available? Regards, Jim ----- Original Message -----=20 From: palazzol@h...=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 11:55 AM Subject: [ballyalley] Hello Hi there, I'm the guy who put the Astrocade emulation into MESS. I'm hoping to=20 get feedback on the emulation, so that I can go back to it when I=20 have some free time. I'd also like to address technical questions if=20 possible, since I'm pretty familiar with the hardware. One thing I know is in complete is the emulation of the noise=20 generator that is part of the sound chip. Thanks, Frank Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 2/R=3D1/*http://domains.yahoo.com"> pmail/S=3D1700006497:N/A=3D56= 7132/R=3D2/*http://domains.yahoo.com"> =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C0945D.69733080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Frank!
 
How complete is the emulation of the custom chipset inr= egards=20 to the consumer/commercial modes that are available?
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 palazzol@h...
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 11= :55=20 AM
Subject: [ballyalley] Hello


Hi there,

I'm the guy who put the Astrocade= =20 emulation into MESS.  I'm hoping to
get feedback on the emulatio= n, so=20 that I can go back to it when I
have some free time.  I'd also l= ike=20 to address technical questions if
possible, since I'm pretty familiar= with=20 the hardware.

One thing I know is in complete is the emulation of = the=20 noise
generator that is part of the sound=20 chip.

Thanks,
Frank





Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C0945D.69733080-- From jwkrych@n... Sun Feb 11 16:15:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 12 Feb 2001 00:15:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 88151 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 00:15:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2001 00:15:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 00:14:59 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.131] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AAA5DFF70062; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:13:25 -0500 Message-ID: <001801c0948b$69a59c40$834f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <965eeo+8f59@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Blue Ram Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:33:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09461.7FFE88A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09461.7FFE88A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Glenn! As for your comment in regards to a 4K size. Boy, did that ever bring about= some nasty debates on the Delphi TI-SIG back in 1992-1993!!! Actually, the= debate then was 4K versus 8K pages, and no-DSR versus a DSR. A DSR is a pa= ged device driver system. The point was mott then as we were pushing a total memory SYSTEM. Which inc= luded a new loader, a macro-assembler, and a linker. Using the macro-assemb= ler allowed many more features because of the expanded memory. But, the lin= ker would allow "pages" of anywhere from 4K all the way up to 24K! And, the= programmer never needed to worry about paging the memory in and out. Only one program really used the whole system-that being the 96K game TI-No= poly! As everything else used the manual systems. But, even then, a slide-s= how program combined 3 pages, because TI Bit-map takes up 12K, to allow for= many pictures to be displayed in memory, and cycled through very rapidly. = Otherwise, with the upper 24K, only two bit-map images could be kept in mem= ory. But, that is enough of the past, and the rather pointless debate on page si= zes. Certaintly, any program development in regards to the memory-mapping o= n the Bally, will include PC-based software development for the Bally. And,= in addition to the new BASIC, a loader would need to be designed. But, I am in communication with a CPM programmer who has done alot of codin= g, and is semi-retired, he probably would be of great help in this. If indeed the Bally can use outside RAM for screen memory, then certaintly = a quick experiment can be done with just a 8K SRAM chip, decoded to be acce= ssed at the beginning of screen RAM. We get a display, and no crashes, the = next step is to replace the 8K SRAM with a 32K SRAM(only 16K is used) and t= ry some high-res experiments. Since Frank of the Astrocade MESS emulator is no with us, let's find out ju= st how good the custom chipset is emulated. Since the MAME emu has gotten G= orf, WOW, Space Zap, and others that use the Astrocade chipset, I would thi= nk that we can put the MESS Astrocade emu into commercial mode. Frank would= need to have a 16K memory block emulated, instead of a 4K, starting at the= screen RAM address, 4000H and going to 7FFFH. This would allow us to reall= y test things out. Also, the Bally doesn't have an S-100 bus out. But, I bet we could design a= bus interface to that if needed. I leave that to a very much down the road= project!!! :) Adam, the guy I am talking to has had problems with your email, as well as = Ballyalley web site. I will ask him to join this group here.=20 I see two projects going on: 1) A CD ROM collection of many Bally BASIC programms. With also a makewav = type program to allow Bally BASIC programs from the PC to be loaded into th= e Astrocade 2) An ambitious hardware project, requiring a clear and concise goal. This = will have a dual-team approach, with help also from Frank in the emulation.= This is the expanded memory, with a memory mapper system, allowing the Bal= ly to have much more memory, and the ability to have a high-res(Commercial = Mode) for use to programmers and gamers. And, probably a PIC chip interface= for a serial-to-serial connection to the PC and the Bally, for a faster tr= ansfer rate. I don't think anyone wants to load a big Bally program though = the audio port! :) As a side, the testing of a simple composite video cable to eliminate the R= F box, as well as an RGB convertor, with possibly the addition/conversion o= f the luma/chroma into levels that the S-Video TV's can have. This will all= ow a real cheap and effective way to view the high-res mode without needing= an RGB monitor. Glenn, I have heard of the Atari crowd doing a simple circ= uit to allow the Y/C output of their 8-bit computers to have S-Video. Could= you provide me the info on that? The Bally does have a Video out and a Video in on the 50-pin expansion port= . Probably for the Z-Grass systems. Any other ideas out there guys? Regards, Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09461.7FFE88A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Glenn!
 
As for your comment in regards to a 4K size. Boy, did t= hat=20 ever bring about some nasty debates on the Delphi TI-SIG back in 1992-1993!= !!=20 Actually, the debate then was 4K versus 8K pages, and no-DSR versus a DSR. = A DSR=20 is a paged device driver system.
 
The point was mott then as we were pushing a total memo= ry=20 SYSTEM. Which included a new loader, a macro-assembler, and a linker. Using= the=20 macro-assembler allowed many more features because of the expanded memory. = But,=20 the linker would allow "pages" of anywhere from 4K all the way up to 24K! A= nd,=20 the programmer never needed to worry about paging the memory in and=20 out.
 
Only one program really used the whole system-that bein= g the=20 96K game TI-Nopoly! As everything else used the manual systems. But, even t= hen,=20 a slide-show program combined 3 pages, because TI Bit-map takes up 12K, to = allow=20 for many pictures to be displayed in memory, and cycled through very rapidl= y.=20 Otherwise, with the upper 24K, only two bit-map images could be kept in=20 memory.
 
But, that is enough of the past, and the rather pointle= ss=20 debate on page sizes. Certaintly, any program development in regards to the= =20 memory-mapping on the Bally, will include PC-based software development for= the=20 Bally. And, in addition to the new BASIC, a loader would need to be=20 designed.
 
But, I am in communication with a CPM programmer who ha= s done=20 alot of coding, and is semi-retired, he probably would be of great help in= =20 this.
 
If indeed the Bally can use outside RAM for screen memo= ry,=20 then certaintly a quick experiment can be done with just a 8K SRAM chip, de= coded=20 to be accessed at the beginning of screen RAM. We get a display, and no cra= shes,=20 the next step is to replace the 8K SRAM with a 32K SRAM(only 16K is used) a= nd=20 try some high-res experiments.
 
Since Frank of the Astrocade MESS emulator is no with u= s,=20 let's find out just how good the custom chipset is emulated. Since the MAME= emu=20 has gotten Gorf, WOW, Space Zap, and others that use the Astrocade chipset,= I=20 would think that we can put the MESS Astrocade emu into commercial mode. Fr= ank=20 would need to have a 16K memory block emulated, instead of a 4K, starting a= t the=20 screen RAM address, 4000H and going to 7FFFH. This would allow us to really= test=20 things out.
 
Also, the Bally doesn't have an S-100 bus out. But, I b= et we=20 could design a bus interface to that if needed. I leave that to a very much= down=20 the road project!!! :)
 
Adam, the guy I am talking to has had problems with you= r=20 email, as well as Ballyalley web site. I will ask him to join this group he= re.=20
 
I see two projects going on:
 
1) A CD ROM collection of many Bally  BASIC progra= mms.=20 With also a makewav type program to allow Bally BASIC programs from the PC = to be=20 loaded into the Astrocade
 
2) An ambitious hardware project, requiring a clear and= =20 concise goal. This will have a dual-team approach, with help also from Fran= k in=20 the emulation. This is the expanded memory, with a memory mapper system,=20 allowing the Bally to have much more memory, and the ability to have a=20 high-res(Commercial Mode) for use to programmers and gamers. And, probably = a PIC=20 chip interface for a serial-to-serial connection to the PC and the Bally, f= or a=20 faster transfer rate. I don't think anyone wants to load a big Bally progra= m=20 though the audio port! :)
 
As a side, the testing of a simple composite video cabl= e to=20 eliminate the RF box, as well as an RGB convertor, with possibly the=20 addition/conversion of the luma/chroma into levels that the S-Video TV's ca= n=20 have. This will allow a real cheap and effective way to view the high-res m= ode=20 without needing an RGB monitor. Glenn, I have heard of the Atari crowd doin= g a=20 simple circuit to allow the Y/C output of their 8-bit computers to have S-V= ideo.=20 Could you provide me the info on that?
 
The Bally does have a Video out and a Video in on the 5= 0-pin=20 expansion port. Probably for the Z-Grass systems.
 
Any other ideas out there guys?
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09461.7FFE88A0-- From ballyalley@h... Sun Feb 11 21:59:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 12 Feb 2001 05:59:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 60659 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 05:58:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2001 05:58:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.199) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 05:58:59 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:58:59 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 05:58:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Bally Alley web site trouble? Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:58:59 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Feb 2001 05:58:59.0332 (UTC) FILETIME=[E4687C40:01C094B8] From: "Adam Trionfo" James mentioned that someone "has had problems with [my] email, as well as the Ballyalley web site." That is the first I've heard of anyone having trouble emailing me. Anyone else having trouble? My email address is ballyalley@h... Let me spend a minute on the Bally Alley website problem. If anyone is having trouble with PDF downloads not being viewable, I am aware of the problem-- but not of a "real" solution. It only happens sometimes, and I am not even sure why it is happening. I do have a work-around for this problem. Instead of left-clicking on a manual you want to read, right-click and then download and save the file. When you have saved it, you can open it with Adobe Acrobat without any problems. By the way, the files are PDF because most of the documentation has been scanned in and saved as TIFFs. I then convert them to PDF with Adobe Exchange 3.0 or Distiller 3.0 (I use the older versions because that is what I have). If anyone is having trouble downloading (slow downloads, time-outs), let me know. Bally Alley is being hosted at classicgaming.com because it is free and they offer nearly unlimited storage. Even I get bad slowdown sometimes (and I am on a fast connection), so I've complained, but the response made me feel like they didn't believe me. Besides, how can I complain, the hosting is free. The html is really simple, but I would welcome anyone to take a look and see if that might be the problem. I doubt it though. I think the ultimate solution is to mirror my site at a few other places. Anyone have a place that can host the Bally Alley website? If not, then I'll find a few free places to put Bally Alley. It won't be a transparent solution though, I'll have links at the top of the first page with links to other Bally Alley sites in case you are having trouble. That is going to take some doing though, so in the meantime, the best I can say is try again at another time if you keep getting time-outs (a lame solution, I know). Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Mon Feb 12 00:02:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 12 Feb 2001 08:02:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 859 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 08:02:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2001 08:02:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 08:02:05 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.2.52] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Feb 2001 08:02:05 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:02:01 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: On comments from James and Glenn Message-ID: <96859p+raf5@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4626 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" It would be of obvious benefit if James is able to test his ideas on the Astrocade emulator. Frank's comments lead me to think that he is willing to help someone help themselves in regards to added features to the emulator. It doesn't seem like he has the time to do major changes. Speaking of the emulator, have you all tried it? If you come across any bugs, describe them and post them here. Frank said he IS willing to do bug-fixes. The goals for the new RAM expansion is a large one, and the goals really do need to be "clear and concise." Following are some of my thoughts. 1) About the discussion on 4K versus 16K page size. I'm treading on very thin ice here. Doesn't this depend on if the Astrocade currently looks at an 8K cartridge as two bank-switched 4K cartridges. If it doesn't (and why would it?), wouldn't that mean that any new hardware would require at least 8K banks if it is going to be able to hold a cartridge image (as does the Blue Ram)? 2) Are we risking the loss of Blue Ram compatibility? I guess so, since a new linker and assembler are mentioned. If the new memory expansion doesn't use the Blue Ram swapping RAM technique, doesn't that mean it would be unable to use all the Astrocade software that used more than 4K? Though most people have none of this, I DO (that is one of the purposes of the CD, to distribute it). All of the software I have is on untested cassettes, of course. 3) I've always called the Commodore 1084 monitors Chroma/Luma monitors. I never know that it is just S-Video. S-Video is quite clear and will do most good, but I'm sure we can all live with composite. Please, anything but RF. 4) Looks like the hardware isn't going to be able to run the Blue Ram BASIC 1.1 cartridge. Most software released for the Astrocade was written in BASIC or Blue Ram BASIC. To be compatible, the new hardware would also require the audio-interface so that the programs could be saved (and loaded). 5) The serial-to-serial connection is a great idea. If we have more memory we will need some alternative way of getting our programs to the machine other than WAV files. However, this should not be done instead of an audio interface, but rather in addition to it. 6) How about a PC keyboard port? The Viper has a 5-pin DIN for an ASCII keyboard. It sure would be nice. Then again, if all future programming is going to be done on a PC anyway-- hey I think I answered my own question. 7) I hope that this new hardware can at least go into a "Blue Ram compatible mode" so that what already exists for an expanded Astrocade can be used. While it would be great to be able to use the commercial hardware modes, it would be a great price to pay if the older software does not work. This brings me to a question. Are we discussing two different hardware RAM projects? A Blue Ram compatible box and another box that allows commercial mode to be accessed? It is beginning to sound that way. A for testing with the Assembly cartridge, I do have that. But I have no documentation for it. I can't load and save programs with it either because I don't have the cassette cables that plug into the joystick port (it uses the ones from the first Bally BASIC). I'm not so sure I would want to save and load at 300 baud anyway. I also have another Astrocade assembler on cassette called General Video Assembler. I have not tried that though (I do have some docs for that). They both require more than 4K, so if the new RAM hardware isn't Blue Ram compatible, they won't work anyway. I agree that any future Astrocade development will be done on the PC. We need to know what readily available tools will work well for Astrocade development. There are many Z-80 tools available already, so this shouldn't be a problem. I am hoping that John can clue us all in on the best freely available cross-assembler (TASM?) and disassembler (dZ80?). I wonder, is there anyone that could "fix" Blue Ram BASIC to work with a new RAM schemes? Of course, I've never seen source for this, but if it becomes available, is something like this possible? More people would be willing to play with the Astrocade if they are able to write something "quick" in BASIC. I am still plowing through all this Astrocade information that I have. I'm sure that hidden away in the pages of "Cursor", "BASIC Express", and the "Arcadian" are treasures that will do us all good to unearth. It is a lot of information. I hope to post what I have scanned in so far after I hear back from Bob Fabris (hopefully soon). Adam Trionfo From jwkrych@n... Mon Feb 12 16:27:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 00:27:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 74800 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 00:27:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 00:27:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 01:28:19 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.203] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AF0418E01A4; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:25:40 -0500 Message-ID: <002a01c09556$4b67e500$cb4f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <96859p+raf5@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] On comments from James and Glenn Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:45:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0952C.61B00880" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0952C.61B00880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Guys! I have thought over what concerns Adam and Glenn have mentioned, and here a= re my thoughts. BTW: my buddy from work, John S. will work with us! So, he = will probably work with me on the hardware side.=20 The beauty of the '612 Memory Mapper is that it also has a mode called "PAS= S". Eseentially, the memory is the same 64K decode sections, which we can d= o 2,3 for the cart space, 4,5,6,7 for the screen RAM, and 8,9,A,B,C,D,E,F. = This is what we did with the AMS/SuperAMS for the TI 99/4A. When first powe= rd up, the system looked like a normal 32K expansion card. As a matter of f= act, all memory tests and speed tests were identical to the original card! = The mapper is transparent to the system. We can do this with the Bally, in PASS mode to initially come up. So, we wo= uld have 56K to play with. Remember, the Commercial Mode must bet set from = software to begin, and the Bally starts at Consumer Mode. This allows FULL = combatibility to the Blue RAM. Now, we will need a switch on the '138 3-8 d= ecoder for the 2000H section, which is cart allocated. The neat thing is that even in MAP mode, you can do some really wierd stuff= . Since the registers I mentioned above would be mapable out, you could swi= tch between alot of 4K screens, while your Blue RAM BASIC did the work else= where.=20 Now, you could be in MAP mode, and in Consumer Mode, and have tons of pages= to play with. Or, you could be in Commercial Mode, and have the ability to= have 16K Screen swaps done by just pointing to different 4 4K pages in a r= ow. And this is good for data as well as code-just don't page over your mai= n block-that would be VERY bad. In essence, with two 512K x 8 SRAM chips, you would have 1024K, subtracting= whatever screen mode is being used. With the 2 and 3 registers mapable, yo= u could some really freaky cart-type work as well! This type of setup would= allow for a new modified Blue-RAM BASIC, since the 2000H space would be ou= r main area, and the commands for "BANKx" and "SCRBNKx" would be in that ar= ea, and if the 2000H switch is off, you can't override your main area.=20 Don't get hung up on the 4K page size, when in PASS mode, the system only s= ees the 56K memory(48K if the cart space decoding is left off). Your carts = and memory requirements for the new Basic are left intact. I agree with Adam, the serial-to-serial is in addition to the audio input. So, we get the same machine, with two different flavors, in the same hardwa= re setup. And the best thing is this, it can all be emulated to try things out! And n= one of the chips I have mentioned are custom. Only a PIC interface for the = serial-to-serial interface. Tell me what you think. Regards,=20 Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0952C.61B00880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Guys!
 
I have thought over what concerns Adam and Glenn have=20 mentioned, and here are my thoughts. BTW: my buddy from work, John S. will = work=20 with us! So, he will probably work with me on the hardware side.
 
The beauty of the '612 Memory Mapper is that it also ha= s a=20 mode called "PASS". Eseentially, the memory is the same 64K decode sections= ,=20 which we can do 2,3 for the cart space, 4,5,6,7 for the screen RAM, and=20 8,9,A,B,C,D,E,F. This is what we did with the AMS/SuperAMS for the TI 99/4A= .=20 When first powerd up, the system looked like a normal 32K expansion card. A= s a=20 matter of fact, all memory tests and speed tests were identical to the orig= inal=20 card! The mapper is transparent to the system.
 
We can do this with the Bally, in PASS mode to initiall= y come=20 up. So, we would have 56K to play with. Remember, the Commercial Mode must = bet=20 set from software to begin, and the Bally starts at Consumer Mode. This all= ows=20 FULL combatibility to the Blue RAM. Now, we will need a switch on the '138 = 3-8=20 decoder for the 2000H section, which is cart allocated.
 
The neat thing is that even in MAP mode, you can do som= e=20 really wierd stuff. Since the registers I mentioned above would be mapable = out,=20 you could switch between alot of 4K screens, while your Blue RAM BASIC did = the=20 work elsewhere.
 
Now, you could be in MAP mode, and in Consumer Mode, an= d have=20 tons of pages to play with. Or, you could be in Commercial Mode, and have t= he=20 ability to have 16K Screen swaps done by just pointing to different 4 4K pa= ges=20 in a row. And this is good for data as well as code-just don't page over yo= ur=20 main block-that would be VERY bad.
 
In essence, with two 512K x 8 SRAM chips, you would hav= e=20 1024K, subtracting whatever screen mode is being used. With the 2 and 3=20 registers mapable, you could some really freaky cart-type work as well! Thi= s=20 type of setup would allow for a new modified Blue-RAM BASIC, since the 2000= H=20 space would be our main area, and the commands for "BANKx" and "SCRBNKx" wo= uld=20 be in that area, and if the 2000H switch is off, you can't override your ma= in=20 area.
 
Don't get hung up on the 4K page size, when in PASS mod= e, the=20 system only sees the 56K memory(48K if the cart space decoding is left off)= .=20 Your carts and memory requirements for the new Basic are left=20 intact.
 
I agree with Adam, the serial-to-serial is in addition = to the=20 audio input.
 
So, we get the same machine, with two different flavors= , in=20 the same hardware setup.
 
And the best thing is this, it can all be emulated to t= ry=20 things out! And none of the chips I have mentioned are custom. Only a PIC=20 interface for the serial-to-serial interface.
 
Tell me what you think.
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0952C.61B00880-- From ballyalley@h... Mon Feb 12 17:04:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 01:04:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 17664 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 01:04:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 01:04:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.131) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 01:04:08 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:04:08 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 01:04:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: MESS Astrocade emulation bug-fixer Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:04:08 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Feb 2001 01:04:08.0449 (UTC) FILETIME=[DE3BB710:01C09558] From: "Adam Trionfo" I received this email today. It is from someone working on the Astrocade drivers. The latest version of MESS seems to support the keypad and more (last time I used MESS, just a few months ago, it didn't support this stuff). If you haven't tried the MESS emulation, then I urge you to try it. Play around with the Astrocade and help report problems with the emulation. I'm going to reply to this person and let him know I'll get back with him about whatever bugs we find. Adam Hi Adam, I'm a member of the MESSDEV team: Frank Palazzolo, the maintainer of the Astrocade driver in MESS would like to fix it once and for all. Since you seem to know the ins and outs of the system, and you know MESS too, I'd like to ask you a favor: could you send me a complete list of the bugs you have experienced (both related to Astrocade games and current hardware emulation) and a list of all the unsupported features (i.e. custom controllers, memory expansions, cassette recorder and so on... everything that's Astrocade related and hasn't been emulated yet!) MESS already supports direct loading of .wav files, so if you have infos about how data are written to tape it will be very easy to support also this feature in the driver. Thanks in advance, Stefano 'JoJo' Priore stefano.priore@k... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From cybpunks@m... Mon Feb 12 19:06:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 03:06:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 60214 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 03:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 03:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ej.egroups.com) (10.1.10.49) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 03:06:03 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@m... Received: from [10.1.2.211] by ej.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2001 03:06:01 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 03:06:00 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Blue Ram Message-ID: <96a8ao+vlje@e...> In-Reply-To: <001801c0948b$69a59c40$834f1cd8@j...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 418 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.92 From: cybpunks@m... Where did you get this information? The only info I got about the expansion port was from the old Arcadians, I believe, which indicated that it was analogous to an S-100 bus. BTW, I don't think the ZGrass generated any video internally. I think it just kicked the unit into commercial mode. >> The Bally does have a Video out and a Video in on the 50-pin expansion port. Probably for the Z-Grass systems. << From cybpunks@m... Mon Feb 12 19:28:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 03:28:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 93516 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 03:28:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 03:28:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 03:28:32 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@m... Received: from [10.1.10.133] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2001 03:28:32 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 03:28:31 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: On comments from James and Glenn Message-ID: <96a9kv+q098@e...> In-Reply-To: <002a01c09556$4b67e500$cb4f1cd8@j...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1520 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.92 From: cybpunks@m... --- In ballyalley@y..., "james w krych" wrote: > Don't get hung up on the 4K page size, when in PASS mode, the system only sees the 56K memory(48K if the cart space decoding is left off). Your carts and memory requirements for the new Basic are left intact. < I do like the idea of 4K page sizes as it matches up with the screen RAM in consumer mode. One could to some interesting double buffering and page flipping as you describe. If you went to a 16K window, then you would waste a lot of memory if you tried doing double-buffering in Consumer mode. It would be interesting to see how double buffering might work on the Bally. A lot of the OS routines are written with the idea of automating movement over frames. That might break if the memory swaps. Also, the only way you could possibly get this to work is to have everything other than screen RAM outside of the screen bitmap area, unlike all current Astrocade games which steal away screen bitmap RAM for scratchpad. > I agree with Adam, the serial-to-serial is in addition to the audio input. The ultimate would be to write a bidirectional I/O driver library for the Bally so that the PC can act as a flat out file server (read and write). The system would work somthing like the SIO2PC or Ape cables between the Atari 8-bit and the PC. That way you could have modular games without having to manually load up segments. That would give the Astrocade pretty much the same functionality as any 8-bit home computer. From cybpunks@m... Mon Feb 12 21:44:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 05:44:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 59858 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 05:44:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 05:44:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls02.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.15) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 06:45:28 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1D5iLG23630 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:44:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010212214418.03012768@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:45:53 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: A/V mods In-Reply-To: <982020323.270.27921.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders At 11:25 PM 2/12/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Glenn, I have heard of the Atari crowd doing a simple circuit to allow the >Y/C output of their 8-bit computers to have S-Video. Could you provide me >the info on that? There are plenty of A/V mods for the 8-bit home computers, except the 800, which doesn't need one since it's monitor output is fine. I'm waiting for Chris Wilkson to finish a new A/V mod for the 2600. I have an earlier breadboard model he did for me that I'm very happy with, composite, Y/C, and dual mono audio. Glenn Saunders - Producer - Cyberpunks Entertainment Personal homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/1698 Cyberpunks Entertainment: http://cyberpunks.uni.cc From jwkrych@n... Tue Feb 13 02:37:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 10:37:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 45654 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 10:37:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 10:37:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 10:37:38 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.105] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AE15327703B8; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 05:36:05 -0500 Message-ID: <001c01c095ab$91b0c040$694f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <96a8ao+vlje@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Blue Ram Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 05:56:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09581.A7F142A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09581.A7F142A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Glenn! The 50-pin expansion bus is found in the Bally Service manual, as well as t= he Bally Basic Manual. As for the Video in and out pins, who knows, somebod= y out there does! Regards, Jim ----- Original Message -----=20 From: cybpunks@m...=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 10:06 PM Subject: [ballyalley] Re: Blue Ram Where did you get this information? The only info I got about the=20 expansion port was from the old Arcadians, I believe, which indicated=20 that it was analogous to an S-100 bus. BTW, I don't think the ZGrass=20 generated any video internally. I think it just kicked the unit into=20 commercial mode. >> The Bally does have a Video out and a Video in on the 50-pin=20 expansion port. Probably for the Z-Grass systems. << Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 4/R=3D1/*http://domains.yahoo.com"> pmail/S=3D1700006497:N/A=3D56= 7144/R=3D2/*http://domains.yahoo.com"> =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09581.A7F142A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Glenn!
 
The 50-pin expansion bus is found in the Bally Service = manual,=20 as well as the Bally Basic Manual. As for the Video in and out pins, who kn= ows,=20 somebody out there does!
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 cybpunks@m...
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 10= :06=20 PM
Subject: [ballyalley] Re: Blue Ram=


Where did you get this information?  The only= info=20 I got about the
expansion port was from the old Arcadians, I believe,= =20 which indicated
that it was analogous to an S-100 bus.  BTW, I d= on't=20 think the ZGrass
generated any video internally.  I think it jus= t=20 kicked the unit into
commercial mode.

>>
The Bally do= es=20 have a Video out and a Video in on the 50-pin
expansion port. Probabl= y for=20 the Z-Grass systems.
<<



Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09581.A7F142A0-- From ballyalley@h... Tue Feb 13 09:49:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 17:49:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 33861 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 17:49:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 17:49:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.241) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 17:49:31 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:49:30 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 17:49:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Stefano 'JoJo' Priore - Astrocade Emulator Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:49:30 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Feb 2001 17:49:30.0669 (UTC) FILETIME=[511405D0:01C095E5] From: "Adam Trionfo" February 13, 2001 I received another letter in regards to the Astrocade emulator. It is included here. Adam Trionfo Hi Adam, nice to hear good news from you! Anyway, I'm not the writer of the Astrocade driver, Frank Palazzolo is! Please don't give undeserved credits to me ;) I don't wouldn't that Frank reads your post on the Astrocde board and thinks I'm "stealing" his work ;)))) Bye, and thanks for the help! I'm eager to know what still misses in the Astrocade driver! Stefano 'JoJo' Priore stefano.priore@k... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From solder_guy@m... Tue Feb 13 22:22:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 06:22:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 59246 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 06:22:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 06:22:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hm.egroups.com) (10.1.10.45) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 06:22:21 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: solder_guy@m... Received: from [10.1.10.122] by hm.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2001 06:22:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 06:22:17 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Controller adapter Message-ID: <96d86p+e903@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 194 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 38.203.176.66 From: solder_guy@m... Hi .. Just want to post to say I am here also. I am working on the atari -> bally controller adapter and will be updating that part of the FAQ in the next 2 days. Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA From ballyalley@h... Wed Feb 14 17:34:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@g... Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 01:34:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 52497 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 01:34:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 01:34:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.91) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 01:34:16 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:34:16 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 01:34:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: What Robert Fabris says about the Arcadian Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:34:15 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Feb 2001 01:34:16.0050 (UTC) FILETIME=[68793D20:01C096EF] From: "Adam Trionfo" February 14, 2001 I recieved this email from Bob Fabris today. He explains what can and can't be done with the Arcadian and its programs. I have provided my thoughts after his email. Adam --------- Howdy Adam, a little more to your letter of last week. Firstly, I did dispose of virtually everything, Larry Anderson picked up the stuff about 6 months ago. All I have left are the subscription lists. Chuck Ottman has made a CD of the Arcadian. If you want to post the issues on the website, ok. A small desire, the early issues may have a typo in the listings, because they had to be hand-typed. It would be a good idea to put in a note that one should check the next one or two issues in case there is a correction statement to a program a reader may want to enter. I have written a general history of the operation that takes up about 5 pages, this would be appropriate for your CD. It's in Word. I have no idea where anyone is, anymore. I have been in contact with Jamie, and Larry Cuba via email, noone else. I found quite a bit of stuff, some duplicated, thru searches - this was a couple of years ago. Larry's FAQ, etc. The last issue was 8/86. Quarterly the last two years. I believe that duplicating the listings, with my permission, is ok. Creating something that uses a program (like a cassette) is probably not ok. I've looked at your Bally Alley - nice. Have yet to look at the mailing list. Have fun!! Best wishes, Bob --------- Now my comments: We need to find Larry Anderson and see if he is willing to contribute to this project. I hope so. I'm sure that he has many rare items, perhaps even some that are unique. Chuck Ottman already has made an Arcadian CD? I was surprised to hear that. I've never heard of it, has anyone else? We need to contact this person and see what he is up to. It will be to everyone's advantage to work together. We will obviously get more done that way because we won't be duplicating other people's efforts. It is nice to get the official end date of the Arcadian. I've not seen that anywhere else. I need to clear up what Bob means by, "Creating something that uses a program (like a cassette) is probably not ok." I'm not sure if he means duplicating the official Arcadian cassette compilations that were made along with Richard Houser (I DO have permission from Richard-- that is, if it turns out he can grant it.) or just putting any software on the CD at all. Richard Houser, by the way, ran The Source (the place where everyone ordered cassette programs from), and I have his entire collection of cassettes. I need to track Richard down, he moved last year. I think it is of paramount importance that we get these programs for the Astrocade off the cassettes. Pretty soon they will be lost. I hope we can work something out with Bob. Glenn, any tips here? I'll be in contact with Bob asking him the obvious questions that his response brings up (people's email addresses that we need, asking for the Word document he spoke of, etc). Does anyone have anything else I should ask him? Now is the time to come forward. I'll reply to Bob in a few days while I wait for some comments from this discussion group. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From cybpunks@m... Thu Feb 15 09:18:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 17:18:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 66347 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 17:17:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 17:17:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls02.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.15) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 17:17:17 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1FHHFx05797 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:17:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010215091649.03093de8@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:18:42 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Larry Anderson/Arcadians In-Reply-To: <982247919.270.8559.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders This should be Larry's email address if he hasn't changed ISPs. "Larry Anderson Jr." I also think Jerry Greiner (aka JerryG) has a full collection of Arcadians. I think that's where I got mine before I sold them off again. I can't remember where I sold my Astrocade stuff... I may have just traded it back into Jerry or something for 2600 carts. It's been about 7 years. From ballyalley@h... Mon Feb 19 12:19:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 19 Feb 2001 20:19:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 74361 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 20:18:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 19 Feb 2001 20:18:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.139) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 20:18:44 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:18:43 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 20:18:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Astrocade MESS Emulation Observations Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:18:43 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2001 20:18:43.0812 (UTC) FILETIME=[280BBA40:01C09AB1] From: "Adam Trionfo" February 19, 2001 I downloaded the latest beta version of the MESS Astrocade emulator (mess32b-037b11.zip) from http://mess.emuverse.com/ It DOES support the keypad now. As I expected, it supports it the same way the Astrocade does: the Color and Word scheme. This wouldn't be too bad if the PC keyboard layout was similar, but I can't figure it out. For instance, pressing '0' turns the screen yellow, but give the corresponding colors for red. Not sure why that is. Some keys are repeated (both 's' and 'c' seem to be GO). The screen resolution that the emulator supports is weird too, it makes the screen tall and narrow. The emulator screen display is 160 x 204, which is neither High-resolution OR Low-resolution, but a combination of both. Low-res, the mode that the Astrocade supports with no added memory (AKA Consumer mode) is 160 x 102. High-res (AKA Commercial mode), which DOES require extra memory, is 320 x 204. However, the emulator supports a hybrid mode, and I can't seem to change it (the Display tab in MESS does not change the Astrocade display mode, but rather the resolution of Windows). A normal Astrocade resolution of 160 x 102 would fix the strange height and width display. A fixed screen mode also means that perhaps the emulator would be unable to support Commercial Mode. Perhaps it presumes Consumer mode? I don't know where to find MESS Astrocade documentation either. It isn't included with the distribution. It must exist somewhere, but there is no link on the MESS page. I hate to bug either of the people working on the emulator for something trivial like this, so does anyone know where to look? Besides the PC keyboard layout, Astrocade docs would have the information to save BASIC programs as WAV files (as we have been informed that this is supported). Before I continue using the emulator, I would like to know where the Astrocade docs are. I am also still interested in anyone else's success with the MESS Astrocade emulator as well. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jwkrych@n... Mon Feb 19 15:53:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 19 Feb 2001 23:53:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 24815 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 23:33:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2001 23:33:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 00:34:26 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.104] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id ACE51DE401D6; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:31:49 -0500 Message-ID: <004401c09ace$f477b440$684f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade MESS Emulation Observations Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:52:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01C09AA5.0AD841C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C09AA5.0AD841C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adam! The MESS emulator is indeed rather wierd in the resolution used. I hope the= author here can change the emulation to be an accurate consumer mode, 160 = x 102. Since Wizzard of Wor and other arcade emulations do a fine job on th= e Commercial Mode of the chipset.=20 Probably the emulation was done with no inclination to actually do the high= -res mode. Which is weird, we can do quite a bit with the emulator, as comp= ared to actual Astrocades, without a physical hardware addition. At least now we have keypad emulation, just as much a pain as in the real A= strocade, but that is very good for now-it would allow us with the Machine = Language monitor, to try several routines and such.=20 Can we get the author to have a real representation of the Consumer Mode, a= t least for the developmental team? Regards, Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C09AA5.0AD841C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Adam!
 
The MESS emulator is indeed rather wierd in the resolut= ion=20 used. I hope the author here can change the emulation to be an accurate con= sumer=20 mode, 160 x 102. Since Wizzard of Wor and other arcade emulations do a fine= job=20 on the Commercial Mode of the chipset.
 
Probably the emulation was done with no inclination to= =20 actually do the high-res mode. Which is weird, we can do quite a bit with t= he=20 emulator, as compared to actual Astrocades, without a physical hardware=20 addition.
 
At least now we have keypad emulation, just as much a p= ain as=20 in the real Astrocade, but that is very good for now-it would allow us with= the=20 Machine Language monitor, to try several routines and such.
 
Can we get the author to have a real representation of = the=20 Consumer Mode, at least for the developmental team?
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C09AA5.0AD841C0-- From palazzol@h... Mon Feb 19 16:47:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: palazzol@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 00:47:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 40251 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 00:44:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 00:44:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.142) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 00:44:08 -0000 Received: from pagels ([24.2.73.141]) by femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010220004408.KGSP4347.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@p...> for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:44:08 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:42:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade MESS Emulation Observations Reply-to: palazzol@h... Message-ID: <3A91772D.16658.19390A45@l...> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) From: "Frank Palazzolo" > As I expected, it supports it the same way the Astrocade does: the > Color and Word scheme. This wouldn't be too bad if the PC keyboard > layout was similar, but I can't figure it out. For instance, pressing > '0' turns the screen yellow, but give the corresponding colors for > red. Not sure why that is. Some keys are repeated (both 's' and 'c' > seem to be GO). I have to take a look at the key mapping that I used for that. MESS has undergone a few changes since I added that driver, so it may be a little screwy. There is now a facility in MESS to map the keys in a more sane fashion. > The screen resolution that the emulator supports is weird too, it > makes the screen tall and narrow. The emulator screen display is 160 > x 204, which is neither High-resolution OR Low-resolution, but a > combination of both. Actually, the emulation is 160x102, but it is being rendered to a 160x204 final bitmap. I did this to keep the code that is in MAME for the bally games as similar as possible to the MESS code at the time. Ideally, we should be using the same emulation code in both programs, since the chips are identical. This is not quite true at the moment. The MESS version will only do Consumer mode, and the MAME version will only do Commerical mode. IIRC there is not a lot of difference in the code, however. > I don't know where to find MESS Astrocade documentation either. It > isn't included with the distribution. It must exist somewhere, but > there is no link on the MESS page. Well, MESS has always been a bit light on docs. The readme file explains the non-driver-specific interface, and I can write up something about the keypad. > Besides the PC keyboard layout, Astrocade docs would have the > information > to save BASIC programs as WAV files (as we have been informed that > this is supported). Hmm...I never added that. Maybe someone else did? (Something else to check) I'm queuing up all this and will look at it as soon as I get a chance. Thanks, Frank From ballyalley@h... Tue Feb 20 09:17:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:17:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 11487 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:16:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:16:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.209) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 18:17:30 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:16:25 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:16:25 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Cc: ballyalley@h... Subject: Astrocade FAQ: Text and Controller adapter Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:16:25 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Feb 2001 17:16:25.0610 (UTC) FILETIME=[DAC84EA0:01C09B60] From: "Adam Trionfo" February 20, 2001 Will you be able to send me your changes to the Astrocade FAQ as a text attechment? If not, just let me know so that I am not left waiting. How are the changes to the controller section going? I have been contacting the various people referred to in the Astrocade FAQ. I even managed to find the new email address of Dale Smith (of R&L Enterprises), but I have not heard back from him. Hope to hear back from you soon. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From cybpunks@m... Tue Feb 20 11:28:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 19:28:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 96441 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 19:28:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 19:28:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 19:28:43 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@m... Received: from [10.1.10.134] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2001 19:28:43 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:28:39 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Astrocade MESS Emulation Observations Message-ID: <96ugh7+b75l@e...> In-Reply-To: <004401c09ace$f477b440$684f1cd8@j...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1770 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.92 From: cybpunks@m... >>Actually, the emulation is 160x102, but it is being rendered to a 160x204 final bitmap. I did this to keep the code that is in MAME for the bally games as similar as possible to the MESS code at the time. Ideally, we should be using the same emulation code in both programs, since the chips are identical. This is not quite true at the moment. The MESS version will only do Consumer mode, and the MAME version will only do Commerical mode. IIRC there is not a lot of difference in the code, however.<< It should not be rendered to a 160x204 bitmap. It should be pixel doubled or quadrupled depending on the mode, to a 320x200 or 640x480 VGA mode. Otherwise the pixel aspect ratio is totally off, as it is now. BTW, these days there is no appreciable speed advantage in looking for the lowest possible VGA resolutions. Scaling up to even 640x480 should be fine. The only issues here are for overscan. The Bally DOES draw the overscan area insofar as it can color it. This is similar to many systems including the Atari 8-bit. This area of the screen is not bitmapped, but it is drawn-to by the chipset, and visible on all televisions. I don't know how the emulator handles that, but anyway, you are really talking about a final screen that is wider than 320 and taller than 204 pixels. It's more like 376x240 or so. When Brad Mott was still working on ActiveStella I made sure he addressed his in his 2600 emulation, so that the native 1:1 screen was not 320x200 but somewhat larger on all 4 sides. A lot of emulations ignore overscan for one reason or another. Unfortunately it doesn't map itself 1:1 onto any existing VGA modes, but if you go to a resizable DirectX window rather than fullscreen, it's easier to implement. From mfk98@y... Tue Feb 20 12:11:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mfk98@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 20:11:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 42244 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 20:11:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 20:11:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hn.egroups.com) (10.1.2.221) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 20:11:34 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mfk98@y... Received: from [10.1.10.100] by hn.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2001 20:11:32 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:11:31 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Power Transformer for Bally Astrocade Message-ID: <96uj1j+bngl@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 484 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 209.49.216.242 From: mfk98@y... I recently found an Bally Astrocade game in its original box with about a dozen games and four controllers. The problem is that when I plug the power transformer into a 120volt outlet the unit does not power up. After future investation the power transformer might of been damage and that is probably why the unit is not getting power. What I need is some information on where I can get a replacement power transformer for this unit. Any information would be a great help. Mk From solder_guy@m... Tue Feb 20 13:02:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 21:02:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 92459 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 21:02:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 21:02:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail20.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.51) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 21:02:34 -0000 Received: œby mail20.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA31481; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:02:33 -0800 Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:02:33 -0800 Message-Id: <200102202102.NAA31481@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.42.210] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Astrocade FAQ: Text and Controller adapter From: "solder_guy Last Name" Hey .. I'm here ... I have the controller info and will send to you tomorrow ... Other changes? Rob ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From palazzol@h... Tue Feb 20 15:33:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: palazzol@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Feb 2001 23:33:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 59577 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 23:19:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 23:19:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.142) by mta3 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 00:20:24 -0000 Received: from pagels ([24.2.73.141]) by femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010220231919.IYY25662.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@p...> for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:19:19 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:17:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Astrocade MESS Emulation Observations Reply-to: palazzol@h... Message-ID: <3A92B4C4.4877.1E11D05C@l...> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <96ugh7+b75l@e...> References: <004401c09ace$f477b440$684f1cd8@j...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) From: "Frank Palazzolo" > It should not be rendered to a 160x204 bitmap. It should be pixel > doubled or quadrupled depending on the mode, to a 320x200 or 640x480 > VGA mode. Otherwise the pixel aspect ratio is totally off, as it is > now. Correct, in at least the Windows version of MESS - MESS32. I did the development of that driver on the home platform, DOS, which stretches the screen to compensate. I didn't realize what this did on the other ports - woops :) I can fix that. > BTW, these days there is no appreciable speed advantage in looking for > the lowest possible VGA resolutions. Scaling up to even 640x480 > should be fine. The way that MESS is architected, rendering is usually done to the smallest reasonable bitmap, and then the platform dependant code does any stretching as necessary. I think MESS32 supports the scaling - it should. The DOS version does. > The only issues here are for overscan. The Bally DOES draw the > overscan area insofar as it can color it. Yup, so far I've ignored it, but it should be added, and it shouldn't be hard. I wonder if it would behave differently with the Commercial mode, actually. Thanks for this feedback. It's important to remember that because MESS is designed to be platform-independant, some behaviors are written in by the driver writer, and some are consequences or limitations of the platform-dependant code someone else wrote. Thanks, Frank From solder_guy@m... Wed Feb 21 02:57:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 10:57:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 79196 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 10:57:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 10:57:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail20.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.51) by mta3 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 11:58:04 -0000 Received: œby mail20.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA08543; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 02:57:00 -0800 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 02:57:00 -0800 Message-Id: <200102211057.CAA08543@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.33.34] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Power Transformer for Bally Astrocade From: "solder_guy Last Name" >>After future investation the power transformer might of been damage and that is probably why the unit is not getting power.<< The adapter is supposed to put out 7.5 v and 11.5 v AC. Check for broken wires before giving up on that Adapter. Replacements are difficult to come by. Any suggestions for a generic replacement? Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Wed Feb 21 13:24:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 21:24:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 60729 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 21:24:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 21:24:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.172) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 21:24:13 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:24:12 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:24:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Many additions to Bally Alley website Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:24:12 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Feb 2001 21:24:12.0473 (UTC) FILETIME=[A2895290:01C09C4C] From: "Adam Trionfo" Fabruary 21, 2001 I've made MANY additions to the Bally Alley website today. I've added four issues of Cursor, and many Astrocade advertisements from the early eighties. I have also rearranged the layout a bit. You can see exactly what changes I've made by going here: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/Whats_New.html Keep a lookout, because soon I will be posting the new Astrocade FAQ in text format. About time too, after five years, it is REALLY needing some updates. Thanks to Rob Mitchell for all the work he is putting into that. I'll post an exclusive link (here on this group) to the preliminary version of the FAQ after Rob and I are done with it (soon). I am looking forward to hearing from people about the corrections, additions, and other changes that we have made. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From palazzol@h... Wed Feb 21 18:58:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: palazzol@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 02:58:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 93122 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 02:58:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 02:58:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.141) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 03:59:43 -0000 Received: from pagels ([24.2.73.141]) by femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010222025838.EPAO1870.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@p...> for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:58:38 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:57:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Astrocade MESS Emulation Reply-to: palazzol@h... Message-ID: <3A9439C3.25831.5FC511@l...> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3A91772D.16658.19390A45@l...> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) From: "Frank Palazzolo" Hi Guys, Well, I'm getting a chance to check out a few quick things in the MESS Bally emulator... I quickly fixed the emulator to render to a 320x204 bitmap internally, so this should fix the aspect ratio problems for now. No quick fix on the border region, still checking. I looked at the keypad mappings and it looks like I goofed, S is mapped to 2 keys! Mind you, as long as you pick unique default key mappings, you can always customize them yourself through the menus later - but I had broken that. So, while I'm on the topic of default key mappings, does anyone have any good ideas? When you consider that many keys already have a function in the generic emulator, plus we have 2 4-way joysticks, 2 knobs, and a 24-key keypad...we're running into constraints. Not to mention supporting 2 more controllers, which hasn't been added yet but could easily be. I'm leaning towards using the entire numeric keypad (except num- lock) and then mapping separate keys for 8 remaining keypad keys. Does it make more sense to preserve the meaning of the keys or the layout? Finally, it looks like there is some support for handling tapes in MESS now, but the driver isn't using them - it's new since I wrote it. Thanks, Frank P.S. - for now, here are the current, goofy default keymappings cut from the code. These will change shortly: "%", KEYCODE_O "/", KEYCODE_SLASH "x", KEYCODE_U "-", KEYCODE_PGDN "+", KEYCODE_PGUP "=", KEYCODE_Q "Down", KEYCODE_S "CH", KEYCODE_H "9", KEYCODE_9 "6", KEYCODE_6 "3", KEYCODE_3 ".", KEYCODE_COMMA "Up", KEYCODE_W "MS", KEYCODE_S "8", KEYCODE_8 "5", KEYCODE_5 "2", KEYCODE_2 "0", KEYCODE_0 "C", KEYCODE_C "MR", KEYCODE_V "7", KEYCODE_7 "4", KEYCODE_4 "1", KEYCODE_1 "CE", KEYCODE_E From jwkrych@n... Wed Feb 21 19:40:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 03:40:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 87863 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 03:40:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 03:40:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 04:41:48 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.189] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A9DE1B120334; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:39:10 -0500 Message-ID: <002e01c09c83$d9668f80$bd4f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <3A9439C3.25831.5FC511@l...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade MESS Emulation Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:59:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01C09C59.EFBDF540" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C09C59.EFBDF540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Frank! Your hard work is really appreciated! Regards, Jim ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Frank Palazzolo=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 9:57 PM Subject: [ballyalley] Astrocade MESS Emulation Hi Guys, Well, I'm getting a chance to check out a few quick things in the=20 MESS Bally emulator... I quickly fixed the emulator to render to a 320x204 bitmap=20 internally, so this should fix the aspect ratio problems for now. No quick fix on the border region, still checking. I looked at the keypad mappings and it looks like I goofed, S is=20 mapped to 2 keys! Mind you, as long as you pick unique default=20 key mappings, you can always customize them yourself through=20 the menus later - but I had broken that. So, while I'm on the topic of default key mappings, does anyone=20 have any good ideas? When you consider that many keys already=20 have a function in the generic emulator, plus we have 2 4-way=20 joysticks, 2 knobs, and a 24-key keypad...we're running into=20 constraints. Not to mention supporting 2 more controllers, which=20 hasn't been added yet but could easily be. I'm leaning towards using the entire numeric keypad (except num- lock) and then mapping separate keys for 8 remaining keypad keys. Does it make more sense to preserve the meaning of the keys or=20 the layout? Finally, it looks like there is some support for handling tapes in=20 MESS now, but the driver isn't using them - it's new since I wrote it. Thanks, Frank P.S. - for now, here are the current, goofy default keymappings cut=20 from the code. These will change shortly: "%", KEYCODE_O "/", KEYCODE_SLASH "x", KEYCODE_U "-", KEYCODE_PGDN "+", KEYCODE_PGUP "=3D", KEYCODE_Q "Down", KEYCODE_S "CH", KEYCODE_H "9", KEYCODE_9 "6", KEYCODE_6 "3", KEYCODE_3 ".", KEYCODE_COMMA "Up", KEYCODE_W "MS", KEYCODE_S "8", KEYCODE_8 "5", KEYCODE_5 "2", KEYCODE_2 "0", KEYCODE_0 "C", KEYCODE_C "MR", KEYCODE_V "7", KEYCODE_7 "4", KEYCODE_4 "1", KEYCODE_1 "CE", KEYCODE_E Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Click here for Classmates.com=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C09C59.EFBDF540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Frank!
 
Your hard work is really appreciated!
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 Frank Pala= zzolo=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001= 9:57=20 PM
Subject: [ballyalley] Astrocade ME= SS=20 Emulation


Hi Guys,

Well, I'm getting a chance to chec= k out=20 a few quick things in the
MESS Bally emulator...

I quickly fix= ed=20 the emulator to render to a 320x204 bitmap
internally, so this should= fix=20 the aspect ratio problems for now.
No quick fix on the border region, = still=20 checking.

I looked at the keypad mappings and it looks like I goof= ed, S=20 is
mapped to 2 keys!  Mind you, as long as you pick unique defau= lt=20
key mappings, you can always customize them yourself through
the = menus=20 later - but I had broken that.

So, while I'm on the topic of defau= lt=20 key mappings, does anyone
have any good ideas?  When you conside= r=20 that many keys already
have a function in the generic emulator, plus = we=20 have 2 4-way
joysticks, 2 knobs, and a 24-key keypad...we're running = into=20
constraints.  Not to mention supporting 2 more controllers, whic= h=20
hasn't been added yet but could easily be.

I'm leaning towards= =20 using the entire numeric keypad (except num-
lock) and then mapping=20 separate keys for 8 remaining keypad keys.
Does it make more sense to= =20 preserve the meaning of the keys or
the layout?

Finally, it lo= oks=20 like there is some support for handling tapes in
MESS now, but the dr= iver=20 isn't using them - it's new since I wrote=20 it.

Thanks,
Frank

P.S. - for now, here are the current, = goofy=20 default keymappings cut
from the code.  These will change=20 shortly:

"%", KEYCODE_O
"/", KEYCODE_SLASH
"x", KEYCODE_U"-",=20 KEYCODE_PGDN
"+", KEYCODE_PGUP
"=3D", KEYCODE_Q

"Down",=20 KEYCODE_S
"CH", KEYCODE_H
"9", KEYCODE_9
"6", KEYCODE_6
"3",= =20 KEYCODE_3
".", KEYCODE_COMMA

"Up", KEYCODE_W
"MS",=20 KEYCODE_S
"8", KEYCODE_8
"5", KEYCODE_5
"2", KEYCODE_2
"0",=20 KEYCODE_0

"C", KEYCODE_C
"MR", KEYCODE_V
"7", KEYCODE_7
"= 4",=20 KEYCODE_4
"1", KEYCODE_1
"CE", KEYCODE_E




Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C09C59.EFBDF540-- From slapdash@e... Wed Feb 21 22:13:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 06:13:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 260 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 06:13:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 06:13:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 06:13:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: slapdash@e... Received: from [10.1.2.11] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2001 06:13:19 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 06:13:15 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Commercial vs Consumer Message-ID: <972alr+80lu@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 253 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.229.148.163 From: "Russ Perry Jr" Has anyone tried comparing the ROMs of the home versions of Galaxian and Wizard of Wor to the arcade versions? There are rumors that they have the same code (at least partly) and only differ in the video resolution, but is this really true or not? From jwkrych@n... Thu Feb 22 16:03:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 00:03:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 22489 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 00:03:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 00:03:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 01:04:17 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.126] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A8649AD003AC; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:01:40 -0500 Message-ID: <002c01c09d2e$a2abd300$7e4f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <972alr+80lu@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Commercial vs Consumer Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:21:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01C09D04.B91401A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C09D04.B91401A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Russ! I know that the total size of the W.O.W. Rom is much bigger than the cart. = But, since the game was also programmed by the same guys, and much of the s= ame hardware, I would have to say that 60% or more of the code is similar. Regards, Jim ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Russ Perry Jr=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 1:13 AM Subject: [ballyalley] Commercial vs Consumer Has anyone tried comparing the ROMs of the home versions of Galaxian=20 and Wizard of Wor to the arcade versions? There are rumors that they=20 have the same code (at least partly) and only differ in the video=20 resolution, but is this really true or not? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Click here for Classmates.com=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C09D04.B91401A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Russ!
 
I know that the total size of the W.O.W. Rom is much bi= gger=20 than the cart. But, since the game was also programmed by the same guys, an= d=20 much of the same hardware, I would have to say that 60% or more of the code= is=20 similar.
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 Ru= ss Perry=20 Jr
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 = 1:13=20 AM
Subject: [ballyalley] Commercial v= s=20 Consumer

Has anyone tried comparing the ROMs of the home versio= ns of=20 Galaxian
and Wizard of Wor to the arcade versions?  There are ru= mors=20 that they
have the same code (at least partly) and only differ in the= =20 video
resolution, but is this really true or not?



Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C09D04.B91401A0-- From slapdash@e... Thu Feb 22 19:39:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 03:39:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 97867 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 03:39:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 03:39:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 04:40:12 -0000 Received: from [207.229.149.49] (207-229-149-49.d.enteract.com [207.229.149.49]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA34950 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:39:05 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from slapdash@e...) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002c01c09d2e$a2abd300$7e4f1cd8@j...> References: <972alr+80lu@e...> <002c01c09d2e$a2abd300$7e4f1cd8@j...> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:36:21 -0600 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Commercial vs Consumer Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Russ Perry Jr I know that the total size of the W.O.W. Rom is much bigger than the cart. Can you define "much bigger"? I mean, I'm sure there had to be some extra code to handle coin acquisition, but I doubt it would be much. But, since the game was also programmed by the same guys, and much of the same hardware, I would have to say that 60% or more of the code is similar. The rumor is that it's exact, and that might lend some credence to the idea of upgrading the Astrocade to the higher resolution. If your assertion is correct, the rumor is not. ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Perry Jr Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 1:13 AM Has anyone tried comparing the ROMs of the home versions of Galaxian and Wizard of Wor to the arcade versions? There are rumors that they have the same code (at least partly) and only differ in the video resolution, but is this really true or not? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 08 15:30:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 23:30:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 25862 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 23:30:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 23:30:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hn.egroups.com) (10.1.2.221) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 23:30:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.10.132] by hn.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2001 23:30:22 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:30:18 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Astrocade FAQ update Message-ID: <9894ma+ne3h@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 751 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" Rob Mitchell and I have been in the process of updating the Astrocade FAQ that Lance Squire created in 1996. We are nearly done and ready to release it. It has been broken-down into three parts: 1) Astrocade FAQ 2) Astrocade Programming FAQ 3) Astrocade Software FAQ (carts and cassettes) I am posting here for two reasons: 1) To announce the new release of this FAQ. 2) I'll email the FAQ to anyone that would like to look the FAQ over because they feel they might be able to have something to add. The main Astrocade FAQ is 99% done (for this release). The other two need major overhauls. Contact me very soon if you would like to look the main FAQ over. I will post the new address of the FAQ when it is released. Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 08 15:36:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 23:36:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 38399 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 23:36:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 23:36:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ch.egroups.com) (10.1.10.51) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 23:36:01 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.2.4] by ch.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2001 23:36:00 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:35:59 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Astrocade manual help Message-ID: <98950v+4u3a@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 539 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" I need help with: 1) SCANS - Cover scans of manuals I don't have. Here is what I do have already: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/pics/manual_covers/manual_cove rs.html 2) TYPE-IN - I am also looking for some people to help type-in the game manuals. Some just need to be converted from html to text, while others would be typed in from pdf files that I send you. After everything is in ASCII files, then I will see what is missing and ask for manuals that are missing. Any help would be gladly accepted. Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 08 15:38:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 23:38:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 46680 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 23:38:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 23:38:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ch.egroups.com) (10.1.10.51) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 23:38:57 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.2.4] by ch.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2001 23:38:57 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:38:56 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: BASIC Express newsletters needed Message-ID: <98956g+hiui@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 270 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" I have added all issues of CURSOR to Bally Alley. I have also added the first three issues of THE BASIC EXPRESS. I am looking for any issues I am missing. Check out what I have already here: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/cursor/cursor.html Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 08 15:44:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 23:44:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 53802 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 23:44:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 23:44:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.91) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 23:44:00 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.10.100] by jj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2001 23:44:00 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:44:00 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Astrocade Tetris Message-ID: <9895g0+uk1t@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 169 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" Anyone willing to bet that the first new BASIC game for this system is going to be Tetris? Someone out there has probably already written it, I'm sure. Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 08 15:54:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 23:54:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 80803 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 23:53:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 23:53:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mv.egroups.com) (10.1.1.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 23:53:58 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.2.225] by mv.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2001 23:53:58 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:53:55 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Astrocade BASIC programming hints Message-ID: <98962j+j7k4@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 977 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" Is there anyone that has been playing around with Astrocade BASIC? I would be curious to know what users have done in recent years. Until I put up ballyalley.com, it was nearly impossible to find information on BASIC except for the Bally FAQ. Now though, with the newsetters, manuals and docs, people can try that BASIC Cartridge that they never could have really used before. Here are some hints if you do try your hand at BASIC 1) Skip saving to tape. Hook the OUT on the cartridge to the IN on your computer's sound card and save as WAV files. It makes programming the Astrocade not only more reliable, but quicker as well. 2) You're still limited to 1.8K. Read the Peek N Poke manual and the newsletters for information on how to converve bytes. 3) Read the Bally ROM Subroutines to use Machine Language from the Bally ROM. It is how most games were able to be created in the first place. I'm curious to see what people come up with. Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 08 15:57:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 23:57:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 47862 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 23:57:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 23:57:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 23:57:51 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.10.113] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2001 23:57:50 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:57:47 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: BASIC Program cartridges? How? Message-ID: <98969r+93il@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 983 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" Rob Mitchell sent me an ad for the Astrocade (circa late 1987/early 1988)that states that cartridges CAN be made from Bally BASIC programs. Here's what it says: " Attention! Attention!! A new service has begun! Any taped AB or BRB program that you would like to see in a cartridge can be done for only $9.95 a cartridge! This does not mean that the programs will be improved, it means that we've discovered a way to put BASIC into cartridges and make it run!! Note: Some programs that we don't already have in our possession may require a submitted tape to burn. If you wish for a program that you have written to be put in a cartridge, just send in a tape (with $9.95) and the tape will be returned with the cartridge. Also, tape any special title screen that you wish to appear (can be taped separately), otherwise you'll get a "handmade" title of the Arcadian or just a name." Anyone know anything about this? How would this have worked? Adam Trionfo From jwkrych@n... Thu Mar 08 17:56:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 01:56:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 57536 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 01:56:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 01:56:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 01:56:39 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.225] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A7FB34FE0274; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 20:55:07 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c0a83e$dbcda4e0$e14f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <98969r+93il@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] BASIC Program cartridges? How? Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:15:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0A814.F1D11E40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0A814.F1D11E40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adam! I remember that guy-Mike White. He was in Ohio I think. I remember talking = to him quite a bit back then. Does Rob have the guy's address and such? If = I remember correctly, the BASIC took up 4K, and the remaining 4K(1.8 actual= ly) would hold the program. Must have been some kind of hook to it to load = the program(autorun) Regards, Jim ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Adam Trionfo=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 6:57 PM Subject: [ballyalley] BASIC Program cartridges? How? Rob Mitchell sent me an ad for the Astrocade (circa late 1987/early=20 1988)that states that cartridges CAN be made from Bally BASIC=20 programs. Here's what it says: " Attention! Attention!! A new service has begun! Any taped AB or=20 BRB program that you would like to see in a cartridge can be done for=20 only $9.95 a cartridge! This does not mean that the programs will be=20 improved, it means that we've discovered a way to put BASIC into=20 cartridges and make it run!! Note: Some programs that we don't already have in our possession=20 may require a submitted tape to burn. If you wish for a program that=20 you have written to be put in a cartridge, just send in a tape (with=20 $9.95) and the tape will be returned with the cartridge. Also, tape=20 any special title screen that you wish to appear (can be taped=20 separately), otherwise you'll get a "handmade" title of the Arcadian=20 or just a name."=20 Anyone know anything about this? How would this have worked? Adam Trionfo Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Click Here to Find Software Faster=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0A814.F1D11E40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Adam!
 
I remember that guy-Mike White. He was in Ohio I think.= I=20 remember talking to him quite a bit back then. Does Rob have the guy's addr= ess=20 and such? If I remember correctly, the BASIC took up 4K, and the remaining= =20 4K(1.8 actually) would hold the program. Must have been some kind of hook t= o it=20 to load the program(autorun)
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 = Adam=20 Trionfo
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 6:5= 7=20 PM
Subject: [ballyalley] BASIC Progra= m=20 cartridges? How?

Rob Mitchell sent me an ad for the Astrocade (circa la= te=20 1987/early
1988)that states that cartridges CAN be made from Bally BA= SIC=20
programs.  Here's what it says:

"    Atten= tion!=20 Attention!!  A new service has begun! Any taped AB or
BRB progra= m=20 that you would like to see in a cartridge can be done for
only $9.95 = a=20 cartridge!  This does not mean that the programs will be
improve= d, it=20 means that we've discovered a way to put BASIC into
cartridges and ma= ke it=20 run!!
     Note: Some programs that we don't alrea= dy=20 have in our possession
may require a submitted tape to burn. If you w= ish=20 for a program that
you have written to be put in a cartridge, just se= nd in=20 a tape (with
$9.95) and the tape will be returned with the=20 cartridge.  Also, tape
any special title screen that you wish to= =20 appear (can be taped
separately), otherwise you'll get a "handmade" t= itle=20 of the Arcadian
or just a name."

Anyone know anything about=20 this?  How would this have worked?

Adam Trionfo

<= BR>
Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0A814.F1D11E40-- From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 08 18:40:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 02:40:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 24758 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 02:40:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 02:40:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.121) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 03:42:02 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:40:57 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: <98969r+93il@e...> <000801c0a83e$dbcda4e0$e14f1cd8@j...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] BASIC Program cartridges? How? Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:43:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0050_01C0A7FF.B5F97EE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Mar 2001 02:40:57.0668 (UTC) FILETIME=[5EB63040:01C0A842] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C0A7FF.B5F97EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I actually sent him a letter today. No idea if he will get the letter thou= gh... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: james w krych=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [ballyalley] BASIC Program cartridges? How? Hi Adam! =20=20=20 I remember that guy-Mike White. He was in Ohio I think. I remember talkin= g to him quite a bit back then. Does Rob have the guy's address and such? I= f I remember correctly, the BASIC took up 4K, and the remaining 4K(1.8 actu= ally) would hold the program. Must have been some kind of hook to it to loa= d the program(autorun) =20=20=20 Regards, =20=20=20 Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C0A7FF.B5F97EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I actually sent him a letter today.  No idea if he= will=20 get the letter though...
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 james w kr= ych=20
To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 6:1= 5=20 PM
Subject: Re: [ballyalley] BASIC Pr= ogram=20 cartridges? How?

Hi Adam!
 
I remember that guy-Mike White. He was in Ohio I thin= k. I=20 remember talking to him quite a bit back then. Does Rob have the guy's ad= dress=20 and such? If I remember correctly, the BASIC took up 4K, and the remainin= g=20 4K(1.8 actually) would hold the program. Must have been some kind of hook= to=20 it to load the program(autorun)
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C0A7FF.B5F97EE0-- From spudboy@o... Thu Mar 08 19:59:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: spudboy@o... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 03:59:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 38605 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 03:59:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 03:59:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta8) (167.206.5.23) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 03:59:05 -0000 Received: from angry (ool-18be618e.dyn.optonline.net [24.190.97.142]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with SMTP id <0G9W00GC3WDJ1Y@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 22:58:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 22:48:41 -0500 Subject: Would it be possible to convert Robby Roto to astrocade To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <000101c0a84c$cf4d3ba0$8e61be18@a...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_xjZdBrLjYv9vlYwRaYJnew)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal From: spudboy --Boundary_(ID_xjZdBrLjYv9vlYwRaYJnew) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hey Everyone, I have been wondering for awhile now if the Robby Roto game could be converted to the astrocade. Being that the arcade hardware is very similar to the home system. Gorf would be another game that could possibly be converted. I am not a programmer although I am going to try my hand at writing some new basic games. Also I had a thought about possibly a hardware upgrade that would contain the same voice chip that the arcade games wizard or wor and gorf had. Then a new version of wizard of wor and gorf could be made and have the original speech. Also if this is possible new games could be made with voice. Is there any new info on the astrocade CD project? Later, Michael --Boundary_(ID_xjZdBrLjYv9vlYwRaYJnew) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hey Everyone,
I have been wondering for awhile now if the Robby Roto game could be converted to the astrocade.  Being that the arcade hardware is very similar to the home system.  Gorf would be another game that could possibly be converted.  I am not a programmer although I am going to try my hand at writing some new basic games.  Also I had a thought about possibly a hardware upgrade that would contain the same voice chip that the arcade games wizard or wor and gorf had.  Then a new version of wizard of wor and gorf could be made and have the original speech.  Also if this is possible new games could be made with voice.  Is there any new info on the astrocade CD project? 
 
Later,
Michael
--Boundary_(ID_xjZdBrLjYv9vlYwRaYJnew)-- From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 08 21:55:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 05:55:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 54547 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 05:55:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 05:55:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ch.egroups.com) (10.1.10.51) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 05:55:56 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.10.96] by ch.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2001 05:55:56 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 05:55:56 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Astrocade CD project update Message-ID: <989r9c+uls3@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2761 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" Michael asked about the progress of the Astrocade CD. The Astrocade CD is a goal of this discussion group, and of Bally Alley. It is not one that is going to be arriving any time soon. I am not even sure when to say this CD might be available, but certainly it will be here no sooner than one year, and not more than two years. Don't be shocked. There is a LOT of work to be done in the Astrocade scene before an attempt at this CD can even be considered. Here is what I WANT the CD to contain: 1) All documentation that I have been posting at ballyalley.com 2) All BASIC programs released on cassette 3) All cartridge ROM images 4) Interviews with Astrocade people 5) Hopefully by then someone will have written a nice game for the Astrocade and it can be included too. 6) Anything else that will fit Okay, realize that that is just a WISH list. I don't have the rights to do this yet (I don't even have ALL this stuff). Anyone that can help me track down the correct people to talk to so that this will happen will be invaluable. I DO have permission to have the Arcadian newsletter up on Bally Alley, but permission for the CD (as far as the newsletter is concerned) is not worked out yet. Robert Fabris has sad that I would NOT be able to include the programs. I hope that we can work this out in the times ahead. I also do not have the rights to the ROM images, though I THINK the Bally ROM is distributable. I need to track down people for interviews. I need to finish getting all the documentation I have online. Don't be discouraged by what is NOT done. Rather, look at what IS done. Look at ballyalley.com and see how much Astrocade information is now accessible. A year ago, almost NONE of this was available. As you can see, this project is just barely off the ground. Only the most basic steps have been taken. This is not for lack of effort. I spend most of my free time scanning, writing, typing and doing things that are Astrocade related. I enjoy it. Other people have been chipping in too. Once this ball starts rolling, it will gain momentum and really start moving. Remember, the Astrocade is NOT like the other classic consoles. Except for a very few sites and the Astrocade FAQ, this system has been neglected. In the meantime, the Atari, Colecovision, Vectrex and other classic consoles have had people paying attention to them. The Astrocade needs to be out in the light again for a while before people start to take notice of it. Given time, the Astrocade will attract a small following just as the other classic consoles have. In the meantime, I'm here to help push it along. Adam Trionfo If you want to help with the CD effort, or the web site, just raise your hand. From solder_guy@m... Fri Mar 09 05:37:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 13:37:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 67159 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 13:37:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 13:37:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail24.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.207) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 13:37:34 -0000 Received: œby mail24.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA07016; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 05:37:33 -0800 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 05:37:33 -0800 Message-Id: <200103091337.FAA07016@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.40.12] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Re: [ballyalley] BASIC Program cartridges? How? From: "solder_guy Last Name" No .. I do not have the address. That copy was sent to me from the auctioneer in Niagara Falls, ON after I won one of his Astrocade auctions ... Rob. ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From guygg@3... Sat Mar 10 02:05:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: guygg@3... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 10 Mar 2001 10:05:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 97590 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 10:05:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2001 10:05:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 10:05:54 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: guygg@3... Received: from [10.1.4.67] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2001 10:05:54 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:05:51 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hello Message-ID: <98cu9v+5736@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1242 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 199.174.172.187 From: "Guy Gordon" I was so happy and excited to stumble across this group. I've been a Bally Astrocade (or whatever mutation of the name you prefer) fan basically my entire life. I'm currently 25 and had a Bally to play with pretty much at preschool age (I was probably playing Checkmate before I figured out how to play kid games like hide & seek in real life). I still love this system to this day. I've got a ton of classic systems all the way up to the newest systems of today, and I still consider the Bally to be my favorite. There has always been a lack of information on this system on the web. I'm exstatic to find a group of people out there. I look forward to helping get this system the attention it needs in the classic gaming community. Question for anyone out there. It's great to have Astrocade support in the MESS multi-console emulator. At least that helps give the Astrocade some attention (and being able to get hold of a pretty fairly complete ROM collection is great). Is there any way (or plans) to be able to have the emulator app load in basic programs from wav files simulating a cassette load procedure? Happy to join in, and hope to help out with the group project(s) Thanx Guy G. Gordon guygg@3... From cybpunks@m... Sat Mar 10 10:47:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 10 Mar 2001 18:47:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 39066 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 18:46:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2001 18:46:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls02.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.15) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 18:46:59 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f2AIkwU11800 for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:46:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010310095128.03f50e28@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:49:06 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: speech chip In-Reply-To: <984129394.319.43608.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders At 09:16 AM 3/9/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Hey Everyone, >I have been wondering for awhile now if the Robby Roto game could be >converted to the astrocade. Being that the arcade hardware is very >similar to the home system. Gorf would be another game that could >possibly be converted. I am not a programmer although I am going to try >my hand at writing some new basic games. Also I had a thought about >possibly a hardware upgrade that would contain the same voice chip that >the arcade games wizard or wor and gorf had. Then a new version of wizard >of wor and gorf could be made and have the original speech. Also if this >is possible new games could be made with voice. Is there any new info on >the astrocade CD project? I think if the upgrade basically turned the Bally into the true hardware equivalent of a Gorf or WoW arcade machine, including the speech chip, that would be a great piece of hardware. If that were done, then these games could be re-ported and be totally indistinguishable from the real thing. As for the CD, Adam has the right attitude. It's not something that should be rushed out the door. I still feel bad that the PAL versions of Survival Island and Sword of Saros didn't make it onto the first edition of the Starpath CD... But on the other hand, remember that the CD isn't just Adam going around like a madman doing everything. If he tries to do it that way, he'll fail. And I do suggest that he be careful about how he gathers up volunteers. Non-profit or next-to-non-profit projects can be fun, but too often lie unfinished due to false commitments from volunteers who either never had the time for it to begin with, or just lost interest and couldn't admit it. We all have hobbies, but too often they get silently sacrificed for work and family. Not that hobbies should be above both, but... I have always treated my hobbies as a litmus test for my ability to follow through on my personal goals despite competing commitments. I mean, unless you are really lucky, what you get paid to do at work probably isn't what you are really passionate about. And it's certainly a LOT more challenging spending late nights and weekends devoted to a hobby than it is putting in 8 hours each day on a project for your dayjob. How many of you out there are so happy with your careers that you look back and feel totally fulfilled purely with what you've accomplished at your dayjob? Completing a hobby project like this, regardless of how long it takes, is a real accomplishment. It took me 3 years to finish both Stella at 20 videotapes--start to finish. Volume 2 was edited when my daughter was less than 2 months old. Talk about challenges! Nevertheless, Adam's role as the main producer is a hard one. Motivating volunteers is one of the hardest things in the world to do, even more so when it's all through impersonal Email. Cracking the whip on them can have the opposite effect, just making them lose interest. A manager for a non-profit project has next to no leverage to demand results. But when 6+ months go by and nothing's getting done, you have to scramble to find someone who has more initiative. With the CD, I had to drop the initial guy who had expressed interest in doing the graphic art in favor of Dan Skelton for that reason. Positive reinforcement is really your only ally. The original Starpath CD was written up in Wired magazine and an obscure mag called Replication News. The reissue has been written up a few times. The video is going to be covered in a future issue of Newtekniques. Good work like this DOES get recognized because, like I said, very few people have the initiative or the commitment to turn "wouldn't it be nice if" into a real physical product. For another example, I had been waiting for a ramcart for the Vectrex for as long as I've been reading rec.games.vectrex. Maybe 5, 6 years. Finally someone came out of the blue with a finished board ready to sell. No hot air, he just put it together on his own and sprung it on us. But a LOT of other guys who were qualified to do it had been talking about doing it for years. They just never got off their rear end to do it. Or take Chad and the Intellicharger. Blue Sky Rangers screwed up with the Magus 2 debaucle, and those guys should know better given that they are more of a formal company than Chad. Then Chad comes around and puts that together in short order. Then you've got one-off things like Bankzilla that were never translated into products we could use. Then Chad comes up with the SuperDuperCharger which will be the only way to play rare games like Save Mary on the real hardware (assuming this thing ever gets produced). So I really hope that this group is a call to arms to the people out there capable of making the memory board and contributing to the CD to step up to the challenge, and that it doesn't become a host to a lot of discussion that leads to no action--or action only on Adam's part... Glenn Saunders - Producer - Cyberpunks Entertainment Personal homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/1698 Cyberpunks Entertainment: http://cyberpunks.uni.cc From ward.shrake@w... Sun Mar 11 01:46:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 11 Mar 2001 09:46:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 20307 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2001 09:46:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2001 09:46:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ci.egroups.com) (10.1.2.81) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Mar 2001 09:46:21 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.103] by ci.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2001 09:46:21 -0000 Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:46:20 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Recent Astrocade ROM archiving efforts Message-ID: <98fhhc+dvcg@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1789 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.81.39.60 From: "Ward Shrake" Adam and I (Ward) were at the SC3 video game collectors meeting at Robert Worne's house, earlier today. Adam brought all of his carts, and I brought a freshly soldered-up cart reading adapter that I made over the last few days. (Literally just an adapter; it plugs into my EPROM burner as if it was a Bally-standard 2364 -- yes, 2364 -- chip.) Good news... I'm still processing stuff, but six new carts have now been dumped, that did not exist as ROM dumps before this. The cart titles are... Pirate's Chase Sea Devil Ms. Candyman Treasure Cove Coloring Book ICBM Attack In addition to the ones above, Adam also brought what looked like possible early development carts with him. To be thorough, I just dumped every cart he brought. (Hence my need to process all of this.) But so far, it looks like he had two new revisions of Muncher, and one copy of Incredible Wizard that has some differences in the code. (Judging by quick CRC checks and glancing through the code manually.) In any case, lots got done today. Hooray, hooray! Bad news... These are going to end up being slow in showing up publicly. But they have been rescued from potential bit rot, and that's something. (The Treasure Cove was dead on arrival... I got it working, then dumped it.) Sort-of-good news... I'm now out of Bally carts to dump, locally. If other experienced cart dumpers want to borrow my already-made adapter, I'll consider putting it into the snail mail on a loan, to get more things dumped? Only real catch is a technical one... it is NOT a standalone reader. It is only an adapter for use with a reliable EPROM reader / burner. (I love my C64's Promenade, but whatever works, works.) But it does work, as today's two-dozen plus cart dumps has proved. Any takers? Ward Shrake From solder_guy@m... Sun Mar 11 04:38:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 11 Mar 2001 12:38:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 34570 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2001 12:38:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 11 Mar 2001 12:38:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail5.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.36) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Mar 2001 12:38:43 -0000 Received: œby mail5.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA03273; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 04:38:43 -0800 Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 04:38:43 -0800 Message-Id: <200103111238.EAA03273@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [38.203.176.66] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Recent Astrocade ROM archiving efforts From: "solder_guy Last Name" Hi Ward and Adam: Thanks for your efforts to dump the ROMs. When ICBM Attack is finally made into a modern cart, we need to figure out how to make a controller for it. Is it digital or analog? Aside: Charles Taylor just posted a message on RGVC that the Bally Shrine is back up and running. I'm gonna send him a message about Ballyalley and this egroup so he can get involved. http://echem.clemson.edu/~charlet/bshrine/ Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From solder_guy@m... Sun Mar 11 06:54:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 11 Mar 2001 14:54:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 81673 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2001 14:54:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2001 14:54:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.33) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Mar 2001 14:54:47 -0000 Received: œby mail2.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA17572; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 06:54:46 -0800 Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 06:54:46 -0800 Message-Id: <200103111454.GAA17572@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [38.203.176.66] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Hello From: "solder_guy Last Name" >>I look forward to helping get this system the attention it needs in the classic gaming community.<< Welcome Guy! Great! Right now we are in an "archiving mode" :: collecting copying scanning dumping ROMs. Any Rare carts that you have could be dumped. And any programs on cassette could be duplicated to WAV files. >>Is there any way (or plans) to be able to have the emulator app load in basic programs from wav files simulating a cassette load procedure?<< I donno ... Frank Palozzolo wrote the Astrocade driver for MESS .. and that alone is a major accomplishment. But any WAV files you have (from audio cassette) would be appreciated towards putting together a CD for others to enjoy. Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From rcolbert1@h... Sun Mar 11 09:02:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rcolbert1@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 11 Mar 2001 17:02:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 37861 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2001 17:02:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2001 17:02:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Mar 2001 17:02:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: rcolbert1@h... Received: from [10.1.2.91] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2001 17:02:42 -0000 Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:02:37 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hello Message-ID: <98gb3d+f41k@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 766 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.4.252.209 From: rcolbert1@h... Hi, I've been recruited by Adam Trionfo to help reverse-engineer the tape format of the Astrocade. I successfully did so with the Supercharger for the Atari 2600, which led to a surge in new program development for that system (see http://members.home.com/rcolbert1). I hope to do the same for the Astrocade. Unfortunately I don't have an Astrocade, but I have been looking around for one (hint hint). In the mean time, I'm going to see what I can do without one. The first step will be to see if I can write a program to digitally remaster existing tapes. I'll keep you posted. As I informed Adam, I recently had a son, and between him and his sister I don't have a ton of free time right now, but I'll do my best! Bob From slapdash@e... Sun Mar 11 10:32:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 11 Mar 2001 18:32:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 8517 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2001 18:32:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2001 18:32:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Mar 2001 19:33:41 -0000 Received: from [207.229.149.70] (207-229-149-70.d.enteract.com [207.229.149.70]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28530 for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:32:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from slapdash@e...) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <98gb3d+f41k@e...> References: <98gb3d+f41k@e...> Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:29:27 -0600 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Hello Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Russ Perry Jr At 5:02 PM +0000 3/11/01, rcolbert1@h... wrote: >I've been recruited by Adam Trionfo to help reverse-engineer the >tape format of the Astrocade. Hey! Glad to see you're gonna try to help! >The first step will be to see if I can write a program to digitally >remaster existing tapes. BLLY2WAV :-) >I recently had a son, and between him and his sister I don't have a ton >of free time right now, but I'll do my best! Pht, I don't have ANY kids, but ask how many tapes I've sampled for the cause... Don't burn yourself out! You'll make guys like me look bad. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From guygg@3... Sun Mar 11 16:34:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: guygg@3... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 00:33:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 11240 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 00:33:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 00:33:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO maynard.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.243) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 01:35:00 -0000 Received: from guy (user-33qtbdp.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.173.185]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA24058 for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:33:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001001c0aa8e$c0c04d40$0100a8c0@3...> To: References: <200103111454.GAA17572@m...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Hello Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 18:52:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 From: "Guy G. Gordon" >Welcome Guy! > >Great! Right now we are in an "archiving mode" :: collecting copying scanning >dumping ROMs. Any Rare carts that you have could be dumped. And any >programs on cassette could be duplicated to WAV files. I've got (I think) the entire run of the Arcadian newsletter up to '84 under Robert Fabris' publishing. I know I've got a fair number of programs on cassette somewhere (I've been looking, and hopefully will find them soon). I don't think I have anything on cartridge that's not already dumped (But I'll double check that). I will keep looking for the audio cassettes, and will gladly dump anything I can find to WAV. >I donno ... Frank Palozzolo wrote the Astrocade driver for MESS .. and that >alone is a major accomplishment. But any WAV files you have (from audio >cassette) would be appreciated towards putting together a CD for others to enjoy. Having stuff on a CD to dump through the Basic cartridge would certainly be cool (at least it'd have track stops). Being able to use it on the emulator would be total gravy... Guy From ballyalley@h... Sun Mar 11 17:17:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 01:17:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 71162 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 01:17:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 01:17:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 01:17:02 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:14:06 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: <200103111454.GAA17572@m...> <001001c0aa8e$c0c04d40$0100a8c0@3...> Subject: What newsletters and cassettes are needed Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:17:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0AA4F.16C01800" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2001 01:14:06.0530 (UTC) FILETIME=[BBDEE220:01C0AA91] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0AA4F.16C01800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable March 11, 2001 Guy, I think I have all the issues of the Arcadian now (78-86). I am still in t= he process of scanning and uploading them to Bally Blley (this takes time). I am still looking for the rest of the issues of The BASIC Express (all the= issues I have are already on Bally Alley). Pages 52 and 53 of Cursor are = not readable-- so I am looking for those.=20 Any other newsletters (i.e. Astrobugs) anyone might have would be good to h= ave up on Bally Alley. It will be a little while before we get to the cassettes, but it can't hurt= making a list of who has what (though, even that might be too preliminary)= . If you think you have the time to help in other ways, contact me via email = mail and I can think of some WONDERFUL things for you to do. Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0AA4F.16C01800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
March 11, 2001
 
Guy,
 
I think I have all the issues of the Arcadian now=20 (78-86).  I am still in the process of scanning and uploading the= m to=20 Bally Blley (this takes time).
 
I am still looking for the rest of the issues of The BA= SIC=20 Express (all the issues I have are already on Bally Alley).  Pages 52 = and=20 53 of Cursor are not readable-- so I am looking for those.
 
Any other newsletters (i.e. Astrobugs) anyone might hav= e would=20 be good to have up on Bally Alley.
 
It will be a little while before we get to the cassette= s, but=20 it can't hurt making a list of who has what (though, even that might be too= =20 preliminary).
 
If you think you have the time to help in other ways, c= ontact=20 me via email mail and I can think of some WONDERFUL things for you to=20 do.
 
Adam Trionfo
------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0AA4F.16C01800-- From guygg@3... Sun Mar 11 19:59:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: guygg@3... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 03:59:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 80733 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 03:59:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 03:59:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blount.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.226) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 03:59:33 -0000 Received: from guy (user-33qtdq8.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.183.72]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA20468 for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 22:59:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002301c0aaab$7a78f1d0$0100a8c0@3...> To: References: <200103111454.GAA17572@m...> <001001c0aa8e$c0c04d40$0100a8c0@3...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] What newsletters and cassettes are needed Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 22:18:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0AA79.2EFF6C70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 From: "Guy G. Gordon" ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0AA79.2EFF6C70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >March 11, 2001 >=20 >Guy, >=20 >I think I have all the issues of the Arcadian now (78-86). I am still in = the process of scanning and uploading them to Bally Blley (this takes time)= . Yeah, I run a few sites of my own with lots of scanned materials, and I kno= w how LONG it takes. Knowing how messy many of the issues of Acradian are,= I can only imagine what pushing them through OCR software would be like... (& hey, seeing as it has only a slight involvement this arena, any Tron mov= ie fans out there? - it was computer related in the Bally era after all - I= run a site and e-mail list about the movie at www.tron-movie.com) OK, sha= meless plug over ;-) >I am still looking for the rest of the issues of The BASIC Express (all th= e issues I have are already on Bally Alley). Pages 52 and 53 of Cursor are= not readable-- so I am looking for those.=20 I don't think I have any issues of The BASIC Express (though I do remember = it). I know I don't have any material from Cursor, as I don't think I ever= even saw that. >Any other newsletters (i.e. Astrobugs) anyone might have would be good to = have up on Bally Alley. Prompted by this, I started digging through old boxes of magazines (Primari= ly TRS-80 magazines and Microcomputing issues from 79-84 or so). I did fin= d one magazine entitled "Mechanix Illustrated - Personal Computers" from 19= 79 that has a writeup on most systems of the time, including the Bally. Th= e Bally write-up is good (entertaining anyway). I need to scan it in, but = my scanner won't work (got knocked around during construction and painting = over the last month - think I killed it). I'll get it (or another one) goi= ng soon. I spent too much time rummaging through these old magazines. Onc= e I started reading, I couldn't stop. There are some great nostalgic laugh= s in them - such as HOLY COW, I CAN'T BELIEVE SUCH-AND-SUCH COST THAT MUCH = THEN!. This one specific issue I mentioned above has a HILARIOUS article t= itled "In The Future" and starts with the words "By the year 2000" (I can't= even type that without thinking of Conan O'Brien). Needless to say, it's = WAY off base on most things. Funny how magical the years 2000 and 2001 see= med only some 20 years or so ago. When I get the scanner going, I'll have = to scan that article in simply for others' amusement. >It will be a little while before we get to the cassettes, but it can't hur= t making a list of who has what (though, even that might be too preliminary= ). > >If you think you have the time to help in other ways, contact me via email= mail and I can think of some WONDERFUL things for you to do. Will do. Hopefully I can find some more stuff... Guy ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0AA79.2EFF6C70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>March 11, 2001
>Guy,
>I think I have all the issues of the Arcadian now=20 (78-86).  I am still in the process of scanning and uploading the= m to=20 Bally Blley (this takes time).
 
Yeah, I run a few sites of my own with lots of scanned materials, and = I=20 know how LONG it takes.  Knowing how messy many of the issues of Acrad= ian=20 are, I can only imagine what pushing them through OCR software would be=20 like...
 
(& hey, seeing as it has only a slight involvement this arena, any= Tron=20 movie fans out there? - it was computer related in the Bally era after all = - I=20 run a site and e-mail list about the movie at www.tron-movie.com)  OK, shamel= ess=20 plug over ;-)
 
>I am still looking for the rest of the issues of Th= e BASIC=20 Express (all the issues I have are already on Bally Alley).  Pages 52 = and=20 53 of Cursor are not readable-- so I am looking for those.
 
I don't think I have any issues of The BASIC Express (though I do reme= mber=20 it).  I know I don't have any material from Cursor, as I don't think I= ever=20 even saw that.
 
>Any other newsletters (i.e. Astrobugs) anyone might= have=20 would be good to have up on Bally Alley.
 
Prompted by this, I started digging through old boxes of magazines=20 (Primarily TRS-80 magazines and Microcomputing issues from 79-84 or so).&nb= sp; I=20 did find one magazine entitled "Mechanix Illustrated - Personal Computers" = from=20 1979 that has a writeup on most systems of the time, including the Bally.&n= bsp;=20 The Bally write-up is good (entertaining anyway).  I need to scan it i= n,=20 but my scanner won't work (got knocked around during construction and paint= ing=20 over the last month - think I killed it).  I'll get it (or another one= )=20 going soon.  I spent too much time rummaging through these old=20 magazines.  Once I started reading, I couldn't stop.  There are s= ome=20 great nostalgic laughs in them - such as HOLY COW, I CAN'T BELIEVE SUCH-AND= -SUCH=20 COST THAT MUCH THEN!.  This one specific issue I mentioned above has a= =20 HILARIOUS article titled "In The Future" and starts with the words "By the = year=20 2000" (I can't even type that without thinking of Conan O'Brien).  Nee= dless=20 to say, it's WAY off base on most things.  Funny how magical the years= 2000=20 and 2001 seemed only some 20 years or so ago.  When I get the scanner= =20 going, I'll have to scan that article in simply for others' amusement.
 
>It will be a little while before we get to the cass= ettes,=20 but it can't hurt making a list of who has what (though, even that might be= too=20 preliminary).
>
>If you think you have the time to help in other way= s,=20 contact me via email mail and I can think of some WONDERFUL things for you = to=20 do.
 
Will do.  Hopefully I can find some more stuff...
 
Guy
 
------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0AA79.2EFF6C70-- From spudboy@o... Sun Mar 11 22:52:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: spudboy@o... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 06:52:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 78089 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 06:52:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 06:52:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta8) (167.206.5.23) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 07:53:56 -0000 Received: from angry (ool-18be618e.dyn.optonline.net [24.190.97.142]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with SMTP id <0GA200A7OOF4OE@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 01:52:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 01:49:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Hello To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <002c01c0aac0$94c42860$8e61be18@a...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_uCxR2Q0MuYBA9VAqouqxUA)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal From: spudboy --Boundary_(ID_uCxR2Q0MuYBA9VAqouqxUA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT What carts have been dumped already? I also have the entire seven volume run of the arcadian newsletter. If any issue is needed I can try to scan them in. Later, Michael --Boundary_(ID_uCxR2Q0MuYBA9VAqouqxUA) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
What carts have been dumped already?  I also have the entire seven volume run of the arcadian newsletter.  If any issue is needed I can try to scan them in. 
 
Later,
Michael
--Boundary_(ID_uCxR2Q0MuYBA9VAqouqxUA)-- From rcolbert1@h... Mon Mar 12 10:16:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rcolbert1@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 18:16:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 10753 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 18:16:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 18:16:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ci.egroups.com) (10.1.2.81) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 18:16:13 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: rcolbert1@h... Received: from [10.1.10.126] by ci.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2001 18:16:12 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:16:08 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Ballywav progress update Message-ID: <98j3p8+ln50@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2321 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.22.180.194 From: rcolbert1@h... Hi, I just thought that I would post an update on my progress in writing the ballywav/blly2wav/astrowav (any preference on the name) program. Actually, my first step is going the opposite direction, that is from a .wav file to a .bin file (blly2bin). Anyway, I was able to modify my makebin program to read the byte codes from a .wav file of a Bally cassette. As has been suggested, the tape format uses Frequency Modulation to store the 0 and 1 bits. Things are a bit different on the Bally than they are on the Supercharger for the Atari 2600 though. First, on the Supercharger, the two frequencies are not directly related to eachother other than the fact that the "0" is shorter than the "1" frequency. On the Bally, the "0" frequency is almost precicely 1/2 that of the "1" frequency. It also seems that the two formats use different phases: The supercharger detects a new frequency as the waveform passes 0 from the bottom up while the Bally uses the opposite. The header tone on the Bally is a series of "1" wavforms, the end of which is signaled when the byte 0xA5 is encountered. The header tone on the Supercharger is an alternating series of "0"'s and "1"'s, the end of which is signaled when the byte 0x54 is encountered. The Bally also places two bits between each byte, a "1" and then a "0". Now for the mystery. I haven't had but a few minutes to look at the results, but it seems that each byte is represented by two bytes on the tape. I haven't found the correlation between the values yet, but that is my next goal. This is different from the two bytes that make up a word value that is POKE'ed into the system in BASIC. At any rate, with the knowledge I have now I should be able to remaster a tape, possibly even repair one that no longer loads. I still need to write the code to do so, but it is trivial. In fact, I don't even think I need to go to that measure, because I think I put a flag into my makewave utility to allow me to convert a raw binary file to .wav. I'll continue to keep everyone posted on my progress. I could use volunteers with high-speed connections and an Astrocade who would be willing to test .wav files I create. As I stated before, I don't have a Bally, so I can't actually try loading anything. Bob From palazzol@h... Mon Mar 12 11:29:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: palazzol@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 19:29:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 44570 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 19:29:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 19:29:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 19:29:50 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: palazzol@h... Received: from [10.1.10.120] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2001 19:29:50 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 19:29:50 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Ballywav progress update Message-ID: <98j83e+fqet@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 650 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 198.102.112.200 From: palazzol@h... Bob, I wrote some code a while ago to decode some wavefile data into BASIC for the Astrocade. I will dig it up and send it off to you. As I recall, there are 2 types of tape interfaces which can be used. The slower rate one was 1200 & 2400 Hz FM modulated. (Can't remembr the data rate offhand.) When I decoded the data it was simple 8-bit ASCII for the BASIC programs. I never checked out the high-speed interface. There is also an assembly program which can be typed into an astrocade to read and convert low to high speed tapes, using the high speed interface. I'll go offline with you later on and send you what I have. -Frank From ballyalley@h... Mon Mar 12 11:51:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 19:51:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 25109 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 19:51:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 19:51:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.203) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 19:51:29 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:51:29 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: <98j83e+fqet@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Ballywav progress update Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:54:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01C0AAEB.3099DBC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2001 19:51:29.0608 (UTC) FILETIME=[D4A8BC80:01C0AB2D] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C0AAEB.3099DBC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The assembly program that converts from 300 baud cassettes to 2000 baud is = on page 104-106 of the Bally BASIC Manual. The BASIC manual can be downloa= ded from this page: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/misc_docs/misc_= docs.html Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C0AAEB.3099DBC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The assembly program that converts from 300 baud=20 cassettes to 2000 baud is on page 104-106 of the Bally BASIC Manual.&n= bsp;=20 The BASIC manual can be downloaded from this page: h= ttp://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/misc_docs/misc_docs.html<= /DIV>
 
Adam Trionfo

 
------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C0AAEB.3099DBC0-- From ward.shrake@w... Mon Mar 12 12:48:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 20:48:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 40908 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 20:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 20:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mk.egroups.com) (10.1.1.30) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 20:48:51 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.105] by mk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2001 20:48:50 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:48:47 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Database of Bally software Message-ID: <98jcnf+729e@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 334 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.81.34.167 From: "Ward Shrake" An eGroups database exists, showing which carts and tapes have already been archived, for this system. The catch is, it is not linked to this particular group, but to the "Video Game Archival Movement" which predates this "BallyAlley" eGroup. The database can be found as part of: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vgam Ward Shrake From ward.shrake@w... Mon Mar 12 13:08:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 21:08:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 23581 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 21:08:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 21:08:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cj.egroups.com) (10.1.2.82) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 21:08:28 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.93] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2001 21:08:28 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:08:23 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Database of Bally software Message-ID: <98jds7+nufq@e...> In-Reply-To: <98jcnf+729e@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 322 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.81.34.167 From: "Ward Shrake" (Following up my own post) Never mind! I expected it to be a pain to move over, but the database came quietly when asked. It is now part of this newsgroup. I set the options so that any group subscriber could add, edit or delete any of the records. Should go quite a ways towards helping organize things? Ward Shrake From guygg@3... Mon Mar 12 13:25:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: guygg@3... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 21:25:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 32678 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 21:25:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 21:25:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tuvok.internetsite.com) (198.92.208.74) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 21:25:48 -0000 Received: from ([198.92.208.75]) by tuvok.internetsite.com (MERAK 3.00.130) with ESMTP id 048E177C for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:25:13 -0600 Message-ID: <008e01c0ab3a$b0ff7b40$aa01a8c0@e...> To: References: <98jds7+nufq@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Database of Bally software Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:23:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008B_01C0AB08.645DA280" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2428.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2428.0000 From: "Guy G. Gordon" ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C0AB08.645DA280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very, very useful. After such a lack of info and resources on the web for = the Bally, It's so cool to just see this kind of info. I have to say that = reading down the list of these, I've never heard of a lot of them (Primaril= y the tapes, of course). Since the roms and such are so tiny, the Yahoo Gr= oups area for file storage could become useful as well. It allows up to 20= MB of storage. Guy ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ward Shrake=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 3:08 PM Subject: [ballyalley] Re: Database of Bally software (Following up my own post) Never mind! I expected it to be a pain to move over, but the database=20 came quietly when asked. It is now part of this newsgroup. I set the=20 options so that any group subscriber could add, edit or delete any of=20 the records. Should go quite a ways towards helping organize things? Ward Shrake Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Click Here to Find Software Faster=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C0AB08.645DA280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Very, very useful.  After such a lack= of info=20 and resources on the web for the Bally, It's so cool to just see this kind = of=20 info.  I have to say that reading down the list of these, I've never h= eard=20 of a lot of them (Primarily the tapes, of course).  Since th= e=20 roms and such are so tiny, the Yahoo Groups area for file storage could bec= ome=20 useful as well.  It allows up to 20 MB of storage.
 
Guy
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 Ward Shrake
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 3:08= =20 PM
Subject: [ballyalley] Re: Database= of=20 Bally software

(Following up my own post)

Never mind! I expect= ed it=20 to be a pain to move over, but the database
came quietly when asked. = It is=20 now part of this newsgroup. I set the
options so that any group subsc= riber=20 could add, edit or delete any of
the records. Should go quite a ways= =20 towards helping organize things?

Ward Shrake



<= TT>Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C0AB08.645DA280-- From ward.shrake@w... Mon Mar 12 13:36:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 21:36:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 72638 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 21:36:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 21:36:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 21:36:58 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.2.27] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2001 21:36:57 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:36:53 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Recent Astrocade ROM archiving efforts Message-ID: <98jfhl+ka3d@e...> In-Reply-To: <200103111238.EAA03273@m...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1276 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.81.34.167 From: "Ward Shrake" A quick update... I found a "taker" on my offer to borrow my cart reading device. It will soon be in the mails, heading towards someone in New Jersey willing to make sure that more of these rare Bally carts get archived. As usual, no promises on "when," but things seem to be moving right along in the cartridge ROM archiving department. I told this person to pass the adapter around, when he's done with it. I am pretty sure the list of unarchived carts will shrink quite a bit. In related news, I did manage to get through the processing chores, on those carts I dumped this weekend. (Thanks again to Adam Trionfo and Rob Mitchell, for their cart loans!) It will still be awhile before they show up publicly -- because I've asked someone to check out and approve what I did, as many existing carts changed in size, one's filename changed, and so on -- but things are getting done. I couldn't resist checking the new cart images in MESS... all the new ones seem to work fine. Only that strange version of Incredible Wizard gave me any big troubles, but I expected it to, from looking at the code inside it. Even the fancy color-cycling effects on games like "Treasure Cove's" title screen, worked well on the emulator. More news as it happens. Ward Shrake From ballyalley@h... Mon Mar 12 14:22:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 22:22:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 1131 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 22:20:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 22:20:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.108) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 22:20:42 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 14:20:41 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: <98jds7+nufq@e...> <008e01c0ab3a$b0ff7b40$aa01a8c0@e...> Subject: Comments on the database of Bally software Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 14:23:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002C_01C0AB00.085DF960" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2001 22:20:41.0624 (UTC) FILETIME=[AC79F980:01C0AB42] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C0AB00.085DF960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have seen this list over at VGAM and I am impressed by it: it is well put= together. Is there an easy way to make a printout of this list (besides j= ust Print Screen)? I am creating the Astrocade software FAQ, and this will= be quite helpful. I have many of the cassettes listed (plus others that aren't on this list).= Once archiving on the casettes begins, I will be in a better position to = say what I do and do not have. Until then, I say we just concentrate our e= ffort on the cartridges (as Ward seems to imply). We all have to remember: one step at a time. Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C0AB00.085DF960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have seen this list over at VGAM and I am impres= sed by=20 it: it is well put together.  Is there an easy way to make a printout = of=20 this list (besides just Print Screen)?  I am creating the Astrocade=20 software FAQ, and this will be quite helpful.
 
I have many of the cassettes listed (plus others t= hat=20 aren't on this list).  Once archiving on the casettes begins, I will b= e in=20 a better position to say what I do and do not have.  Until then, I say= we=20 just concentrate our effort on the cartridges (as Ward seems to=20 imply).
 
We all have to remember: one step at a time.
 
Adam Trionfo
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C0AB00.085DF960-- From guygg@3... Mon Mar 12 14:35:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: guygg@3... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 22:35:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 27573 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 22:35:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 22:35:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tuvok.internetsite.com) (198.92.208.74) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 22:35:34 -0000 Received: from ([198.92.208.75]) by tuvok.internetsite.com (MERAK 3.00.130) with ESMTP id 048E177C for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:34:58 -0600 Message-ID: <001301c0ab44$6d7fc5f0$aa01a8c0@e...> To: References: <98jds7+nufq@e...> <008e01c0ab3a$b0ff7b40$aa01a8c0@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Comments on the database of Bally software Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:33:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0AB12.20D93240" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2428.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2428.0000 From: "Guy G. Gordon" ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0AB12.20D93240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you have the database open on screen, there is a link on the top of it f= or opening it in a printable form. I did that already to check against wha= t I've got... Guy ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bally Alley=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 4:23 PM Subject: [ballyalley] Comments on the database of Bally software I have seen this list over at VGAM and I am impressed by it: it is well p= ut together. Is there an easy way to make a printout of this list (besides= just Print Screen)? I am creating the Astrocade software FAQ, and this wi= ll be quite helpful. I have many of the cassettes listed (plus others that aren't on this list= ). Once archiving on the casettes begins, I will be in a better position t= o say what I do and do not have. Until then, I say we just concentrate our= effort on the cartridges (as Ward seems to imply). We all have to remember: one step at a time. Adam Trionfo Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Click Here to Find Software Faster=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0AB12.20D93240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you have the database open on screen, t= here is a=20 link on the top of it for opening it in a printable form.  I did that= =20 already to check against what I've got...
 
Guy
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 = Bally=20 Alley
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 4:23= =20 PM
Subject: [ballyalley] Comments on = the=20 database of Bally software

I have seen this list over at VGAM and I am impr= essed=20 by it: it is well put together.  Is there an easy way to make a prin= tout=20 of this list (besides just Print Screen)?  I am creating the Astroca= de=20 software FAQ, and this will be quite helpful.
 
I have many of the cassettes listed (plus others= that=20 aren't on this list).  Once archiving on the casettes begins, I will= be=20 in a better position to say what I do and do not have.  Until then, = I say=20 we just concentrate our effort on the cartridges (as Ward seems to=20 imply).
 
We all have to remember: one step at a time.
 
Adam Trionfo


Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0AB12.20D93240-- From tfrevor@y... Mon Mar 12 20:26:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: tfrevor@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 04:26:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 99628 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 04:26:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 04:26:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO b05.egroups.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 04:26:56 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: tfrevor@y... Received: from [10.1.10.114] by b05.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2001 04:18:28 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 04:18:23 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Astrocade manual help Message-ID: <98k72f+o8ro@e...> In-Reply-To: <98950v+4u3a@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 238 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.7.24.125 From: tfrevor@y... First off, thank you! After 20 years of waiting to see anyone else that actually owned the Bally, this is place is a dream come true. I'm not an assembly programmer, but any assistance you need in retyping I'm more than glad to give. From palazzol@h... Mon Mar 12 21:13:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: palazzol@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 05:13:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 88719 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 05:13:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 05:13:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.145) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 05:13:35 -0000 Received: from pagels ([24.2.73.141]) by femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010313051335.VNXY811.femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com@p...> for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:13:35 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:12:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: MESS bug fixes Reply-to: palazzol@h... Message-ID: <3AAD65F7.18305.AFF89D8@l...> Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) From: "Frank Palazzolo" Just a FYI, I fixed the aspect ratio problem for windowed modes, and modified the keypad mapping so that there are no conflicts. These are checked into the source code base so they will magically show up in MESS0.37b13, whenever that gets built. (Hopefully soon) -Frank From ballyalley@h... Tue Mar 13 22:35:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 06:35:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 62996 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 06:35:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 06:35:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.16) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 06:35:58 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:35:57 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010215091649.03093de8@p...> Subject: Astrocade BASIC and you? Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:38:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0AC0E.62BC4880" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2001 06:35:57.0986 (UTC) FILETIME=[0738B820:01C0AC51] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0AC0E.62BC4880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable March 13, 2001 Glenn, I have been going through material that I wrote on my Atari 8-bit in the ea= rly nineties. I came across two letters that I wrote to a Glenn Saunders th= at lived in Massachusetts (in 1994). I'm guessing this "Glenn" is you? Did = you receive the Astrocade BASIC cartridge that I sent to you back then? Was= this you? I could send you the poorly written letters to jog your memory.= =20 I'm just curious, that's all. Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0AC0E.62BC4880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

March 13, 2001

Glenn,

I have been going through material that I wrote on my Atari 8-bit in the= =20 early nineties. I came across two letters that I wrote to a Glenn Saunders = that=20 lived in Massachusetts (in 1994). I'm guessing this "Glenn" is you? Did you= =20 receive the Astrocade BASIC cartridge that I sent to you back then? Was thi= s=20 you? I could send you the poorly written letters to jog your memory.

I'm just curious, that's all.

Adam Trionfo

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0AC0E.62BC4880-- From ballyalley@h... Tue Mar 13 23:59:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 07:59:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 27267 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 07:59:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 07:59:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.19) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 07:59:25 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:59:24 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010215091649.03093de8@p...> Subject: Oops, I didn't mean to post to EVERYONE Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:02:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0AC1A.0DB3FAC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2001 07:59:24.0972 (UTC) FILETIME=[AF9E26C0:01C0AC5C] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0AC1A.0DB3FAC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Um, I didn't mean to post that email to Glenn to the WHOLE group. Oops, so= rry. Duh. Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0AC1A.0DB3FAC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Um, I didn't mean to post that email to Glenn to the WH= OLE=20 group.  Oops, sorry.
 
Duh.
 
Adam Trionfo
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0AC1A.0DB3FAC0-- From rcolbert1@h... Thu Mar 15 21:08:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rcolbert1@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 05:08:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 98180 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 05:08:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 05:08:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.87) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 06:09:28 -0000 Received: from cx727596b ([24.183.207.151]) by femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010316050823.BTRW4228.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:08:23 -0800 To: Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Re: Ballywav progress update Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:23:57 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0ADA7.01F43860" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal From: "Bob Colbert" ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0ADA7.01F43860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I've been able to decode the tape format. Here is what I've found: The tape format contains 3730 bytes of information. The data is stored in words (1 word = 2 bytes) that have the bits in the following positions: On Tape In RAM L2 L8 H2 H8 L1 L4 H1 H4 H8 H4 H2 H1 L8 L4 L2 L1 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 -> 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 1 Every even byte (starting at 0) is used to store BASIC commands, every odd byte stores something else??? (actually, I'm not certain of the order) It's also possible that the odd bytes aren't even used. Any insight would be helpful. At byte 3616 there seems to be some footer information about the file, but I can't quite make out what it is. I'd be happy to make the decoded files available to anyone interested to look at in a hex editor. At any rate, I can successfully decode these files without error, and should be able to create new .wav files that are digitally perfect and will load on an Astrocade. I'd like to get my hands on a .wav file of an actual game and decode it. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0ADA7.01F43860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well, I've been able to decode the tape format= . =20 Here is what I've found:
 
The tape format contains 3730 bytes of=20 information.  The data is stored in words (1 word =3D 2 bytes) = that=20 have the bits in the following positions:
 
       &nbs= p;     =20 On=20 Tape           &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =     =20 In RAM
 
L2=20 L8 H2 H8 L1 L4 H1=20 H4            H8 H= 4 H2=20 H1 L8 L4 L2 L1
 0  1  1  0  1  = 0 =20 1  0    ->       0&n= bsp;=20 0  1  1  1  0  0 =20 1
 
Every even byte (starting at 0) is used t= o store=20 BASIC commands, every odd byte stores something else??? (actually, I'm no= t=20 certain of the order)  It's also possible that the odd bytes aren't = even=20 used.  Any insight would be helpful.
 
At byte 3616 there seems to be some footer=20 information about the file, but I can't quite make out what it is.  = I'd=20 be happy to make the decoded files available to anyone interested to look= at=20 in a hex editor.
 
At any rate, I can successfully decode these f= iles=20 without error, and should be able to create new .wav files that are digit= ally=20 perfect and will load on an Astrocade.  I'd like to get my hands on = a=20 .wav file of an actual game and decode it.
 
       &nbs= p;       =20 Bob
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0ADA7.01F43860-- From tfrevor@y... Fri Mar 16 05:39:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: tfrevor@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 13:39:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 2011 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 13:39:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 13:39:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4704.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.204) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 13:39:04 -0000 Message-ID: <20010316133903.20826.qmail@w...> Received: from [47.230.0.41] by web4704.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 05:39:03 PST Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 05:39:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: New Bally programs To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Thomas Revor Here's a thought and a suggestion for our programmers out there. I, for one, despised entering Basic programs in via the Bally keypad. (It was a nuisance back then, I dread about it now...) With the great news about BallyWav, is there any possibility of someone writing a program so we could type in new programs in our IBM/Mac/*nix systems and have it save it in a format usable by the Bally? The straight text shouldn't be too difficult, but I don't know if it saved the keywords differently. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ballyalley@h... Fri Mar 16 09:25:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 17:25:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 65406 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 17:25:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 17:25:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.21) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 18:26:16 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:25:11 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: <20010316133903.20826.qmail@w...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] New Bally programs Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:28:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0048_01C0ADFB.706D9440" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2001 17:25:11.0680 (UTC) FILETIME=[0E423800:01C0AE3E] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C0ADFB.706D9440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Entering BASIC programs with a text editor on a personal computer has alway= s sounded like a viable idea. It would work like this: 1. Any text editor would be used to type in a BASIC program. 2. Once the BASIC program is saved as ASCII, another program is used to tr= anslate the ASCII to the token codes that the Astrocade understands. 3. Then that file would be made into a WAV with Bob's forthcoming program. Entering Astrocade BASIC programs via a PC's keyboard is a nice idea, but I= have hopes that once a hardware/software method is created for people to w= ork on the Astrocade, there will be new machine language games created. Why? Astrocade BASIC is still limited to 1.8K. A machine language programme= r can take advantage of all 8K allotted to a cartridge. As Ward has pointed= out, not all the past cartridges have even used all 8K of the space availa= ble; some carts use as little as 2K. It will be very interesting to see wha= t people can come up with nowadays. PLUS, if a RAM device is created that enables access to commercial mode (hi= gher quality graphics), then machine language MUST be used because BASIC ca= n not take advantage of that mode. Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C0ADFB.706D9440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Entering BASIC programs with a text editor on a personal computer has al= ways=20 sounded like a viable idea. It would work like this:

1.  Any text editor would be used to type in a BASIC program.

2.  Once the BASIC program is saved as ASCII, another program is us= ed to=20 translate the ASCII to the token codes that the Astrocade understands.

3.  Then that file would be made into a WAV with Bob's forthcoming= =20 program.

Entering Astrocade BASIC programs via a PC's keyboard is a nice idea, bu= t I=20 have hopes that once a hardware/software method is created for people to wo= rk on=20 the Astrocade, there will be new machine language games created.

Why? Astrocade BASIC is still limited to 1.8K. A machine language progra= mmer=20 can take advantage of all 8K allotted to a cartridge. As Ward has pointed o= ut,=20 not all the past cartridges have even used all 8K of the space available; s= ome=20 carts use as little as 2K. It will be very interesting to see what people c= an=20 come up with nowadays.

PLUS, if a RAM device is created that enables access to commercial mode= =20 (higher quality graphics), then machine language MUST be used because BASIC= can=20 not take advantage of that mode.

Adam Trionfo

------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C0ADFB.706D9440-- From tfrevor@y... Fri Mar 16 13:27:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: tfrevor@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 21:27:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 44062 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 21:27:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 21:27:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4702.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.202) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 22:28:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20010316212710.5523.qmail@w...> Received: from [47.230.0.41] by web4702.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:27:10 PST Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:27:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [ballyalley] New Bally programs To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Thomas Revor I would agree, and I think a hardware method is a terrific idea, but I still think a PC method of entering would be a nice idea. Why? Personally, I'm not a machine language programmer. But I would love to try programming again with the Bally. Even something as limited in RAM as BallyBasic. Also, once the method of BallyWav is worked out, it should be easy to write up a method of using the PC to write them up until the hardware method comes out. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ballyalley@h... Fri Mar 16 14:25:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 22:25:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 76294 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 22:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 22:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.17) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 22:25:27 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:25:26 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: <20010316212710.5523.qmail@w...> Subject: On BASIC and the "hardware" method Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:28:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0AE25.62C56320" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2001 22:25:26.0769 (UTC) FILETIME=[0016A610:01C0AE68] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0AE25.62C56320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable By "hardware" method, I am not discounting the idea of entering programs vi= a a PC keyboard. No, entering BASIC programs that way is something I look = forward to. What I mean by the "hardware" expansion is a device that allows programs to= be written on a PC and then loaded into the devices extra RAM as an Astroc= ade cartridge. This device might also allow access to the Commercial mode = graphics. If you read some past posts, it is mentioned. Finally, I am actually looking forward to people playing around with BASIC.= New programs that people might write will certainly be posted on Bally Al= ley. I said a few weeks away that I wouln't be surprised to see someone wr= ite a primitive version of Tetris in Bally BASIC. I'm sure someone is up t= o the task... Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0AE25.62C56320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
By "hardware" method, I am not discounting th= e idea=20 of entering programs via a PC keyboard.  No, entering BASIC programs t= hat=20 way is something I look forward to.
 
What I mean by the "hardware" expansion is a devic= e that=20 allows programs to be written on a PC and then loaded into the devices extr= a RAM=20 as an Astrocade cartridge.  This device might also allow access t= o the=20 Commercial mode graphics.  If you read some past posts, it is=20 mentioned.
 
Finally, I am actually looking forward to people playin= g=20 around with BASIC.  New programs that people might write wil= l=20 certainly be posted on Bally Alley.  I said a few weeks away that I wo= uln't=20 be surprised to see someone write a primitive version of Tetris in Bally=20 BASIC.  I'm sure someone is up to the task...
 
Adam Trionfo
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0AE25.62C56320-- From cybpunks@m... Sat Mar 17 00:34:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 17 Mar 2001 08:34:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 19003 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 08:34:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2001 08:34:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls01.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.20) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 08:34:14 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f2H8YDj22091 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 00:34:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010317002651.033aab50@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 00:36:29 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: tape format figured out In-Reply-To: <984730021.529.12908.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders At 08:07 AM 3/16/2001 +0000, you wrote: > At any rate, I can successfully decode these files without error, and >should be able to create new .wav files that are digitally perfect and will >load on an Astrocade. I'd like to get my hands on a .wav file of an actual >game and decode it. Is this relevant to both the slow and fast tape formats? I wasn't expecting this problem to be solved for at least the next six months. Congratulations, Bob! This means all these old basic programs could be converted to a compact BIN format and Adam's hope that it would be possible to create a Bally Basic bytecode cross-compiler for the PC would be possible. I'll see if I can digitize the two tapes I have which I had trouble loading on an Astrocade when I had one back in 94. Unfortunately I don't have a very high quality tape deck. It's just a boom box. If anyone else wants to digitize these tapes for me, let me know. I'll just give them away for that purpose. They really belong to JerryG anyway ;) But I think he got them on loan from someone else originally... Probably the best way to figure out how the data is stored on the tapes is to use the emulator with Basic and type in a program and do the same on a real unit. Then save to tape, decode it, and compare bytes with the bytes that are memory-resident in the emulator. Whatever matches up is the Basic bytecode. Whatever doesn't is some kind of header/footer/checksum/memory-management stuff. From rcolbert1@h... Sat Mar 17 04:51:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rcolbert1@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 17 Mar 2001 12:51:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 77871 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 12:51:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2001 12:51:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.87) by mta2 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 12:51:55 -0000 Received: from cx727596b ([24.183.207.151]) by femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010317125154.OWQJ4228.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 04:51:54 -0800 To: Subject: RE: [ballyalley] tape format figured out Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 07:07:54 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010317002651.033aab50@p...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal From: "Bob Colbert" I'm not sure which format I have, the slow or the fast. I think it is the slow format. The program I wrote to remaster the tapes still is "not ready for prime-time". To use it I have to manually manipulate the .wav file to get it in a format the program likes. Some of the "smart" algorithms in makebin for the Supercharger don't apply to the Bally... Currently I convert the .wav file to 16-bit mono signed format and make sure that the sine-waves are not inverted. Once I do that, the program reads flawlessly. I'm in the process of rewriting some of the original makebin code to make it more flexible so that it can work with both the SC and the Bally. In the mean time, I will see about making a new .wav file from one of the old ones I have and see if people can load it. It shouldn't be too hard to make a pc Bally Basic "compiler", Though I still need to run some more tests to determine what information is in that footer. Of course, how fast I do this is up in the air since my two kids seem to devour almost every waking moment I have :^) Bob P.S. Glenn, please send .wav files of those tapes along, I'd like to give them a whirl. -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Saunders [mailto:cybpunks@m...] Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 2:36 AM To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ballyalley] tape format figured out At 08:07 AM 3/16/2001 +0000, you wrote: > At any rate, I can successfully decode these files without error, and >should be able to create new .wav files that are digitally perfect and will >load on an Astrocade. I'd like to get my hands on a .wav file of an actual >game and decode it. Is this relevant to both the slow and fast tape formats? I wasn't expecting this problem to be solved for at least the next six months. Congratulations, Bob! This means all these old basic programs could be converted to a compact BIN format and Adam's hope that it would be possible to create a Bally Basic bytecode cross-compiler for the PC would be possible. I'll see if I can digitize the two tapes I have which I had trouble loading on an Astrocade when I had one back in 94. Unfortunately I don't have a very high quality tape deck. It's just a boom box. If anyone else wants to digitize these tapes for me, let me know. I'll just give them away for that purpose. They really belong to JerryG anyway ;) But I think he got them on loan from someone else originally... Probably the best way to figure out how the data is stored on the tapes is to use the emulator with Basic and type in a program and do the same on a real unit. Then save to tape, decode it, and compare bytes with the bytes that are memory-resident in the emulator. Whatever matches up is the Basic bytecode. Whatever doesn't is some kind of header/footer/checksum/memory-management stuff. Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ballyalley@h... Sat Mar 17 14:28:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 17 Mar 2001 22:28:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 17878 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 22:28:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2001 22:28:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.118) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 22:28:54 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:28:54 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] tape format figured out Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:32:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002F_01C0AEEF.0A1C0880" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Mar 2001 22:28:54.0484 (UTC) FILETIME=[A64F3140:01C0AF31] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C0AEEF.0A1C0880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable March 17, 2001 Bob, For your information, you have been working with the 2000 baud format. I c= an record some of the 300 baud format cassettes for you if you like, but th= ey are much longer (about four to five minutes), so they will also be much = larger files even when compressed with zip. Plus, I can not test how well = they have been working. I would say that about 80% of the 100 or so cassettes that I have are in th= e 2000 baud format. After the new Bally BASIC was released, everything tha= t I have seen has a 2000 baud version on one side and a 300 baud version on= the other. I can not test the 300 baud cassettes because I do not have the interface t= hat plugs into ports 3 and 4 (though I DO have the older Bally BASIC cartri= dge). If anyone has an interface to lend or sell, I am interested. Most everything released on 300 baud cassettes can be converted to 2000 bau= d and still run (though I have never done this myself). Some programs (mos= tly non-games) will not work because they take advantage of a few features = that were dropped from the second release of BASIC. Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C0AEEF.0A1C0880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
March 17, 2001
 
Bob,
 
For your information, you have been working with the 20= 00 baud=20 format.  I can record some of the 300 baud format cassettes for you if= you=20 like, but they are much longer (about four to five minutes), so they will a= lso=20 be much larger files even when compressed with zip.  Plus, I can not t= est=20 how well they have been working.
 
I would say that about 80% of the 100 or so cassettes t= hat I=20 have are in the 2000 baud format.  After the new Bally BASIC was relea= sed,=20 everything that I have seen has a 2000 baud version on one side and a 300 b= aud=20 version on the other.
 
I can not test the 300 baud cassettes because I do not = have=20 the interface that plugs into ports 3 and 4 (though I DO have the older Bal= ly=20 BASIC cartridge).  If anyone has an interface to lend or sell, I = am=20 interested.
 
Most everything released on 300 baud cassettes can be=20 converted to 2000 baud and still run (though I have never done this=20 myself).  Some programs (mostly non-games) will not work because they = take=20 advantage of a few features that were dropped from the second release of=20 BASIC.
 
Adam Trionfo
 
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C0AEEF.0A1C0880-- From cybpunks@m... Sat Mar 17 15:39:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 17 Mar 2001 23:39:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 37438 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 23:39:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2001 23:39:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls01.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.20) by mta3 with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 00:40:30 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f2HNdPj11166 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 15:39:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010317153147.02cb2b00@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 15:41:42 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: developments In-Reply-To: <984845918.224.50805.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders At 04:18 PM 3/17/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Entering Astrocade BASIC programs via a PC's keyboard is a nice idea, but >I have hopes that once a hardware/software method is created for people to >work on the Astrocade, there will be new machine language games created. Assembly on the 2600 is a necessity. 100% assembly on a heavily expanded Astrocade isn't any more necessary than any other home computer like an Atari XL or C=64. The best of both worlds is to have a low-profile Basic on ROM that supports ML subroutines. Even regular Bally Basic supports ML. As I recall, the extended Bally Basic for the Blue Ram runs entirely from RAM, doesn't it? Seems rather wasteful. >Why? Astrocade BASIC is still limited to 1.8K. A machine language >programmer can take advantage of all 8K allotted to a cartridge. As Ward >has pointed out, not all the past cartridges have even used all 8K of the >space available; some carts use as little as 2K. It will be very >interesting to see what people can come up with nowadays. But without an extended memory device, there is no easy way to develop games. Burning EPROMs is a pain in the ass and the emulators are not 100% yet. >PLUS, if a RAM device is created that enables access to commercial mode >(higher quality graphics), then machine language MUST be used because >BASIC can not take advantage of that mode. A new version of extended Basic would definitely be needed. >What I mean by the "hardware" expansion is a device that allows programs >to be written on a PC and then loaded into the devices extra RAM as an >Astrocade cartridge. This device might also allow access to the >Commercial mode graphics. If you read some past posts, it is mentioned. If it's merely a RAM cartridge then programs will be limited to 8K unless banked (like the SuperDuperCharger). It would have to be a device that plugs into the back expansion slot. >I'm not sure which format I have, the slow or the fast. I think it is the >slow format. The program I wrote to remaster the tapes still is "not ready The slow format uses the light pen port. The fast format is the one that plugs into the cart itself. >sine-waves are not inverted. Once I do that, the program reads flawlessly. >I'm in the process of rewriting some of the original makebin code to make it >more flexible so that it can work with both the SC and the Bally. In the And the SuperDuperCharger? From ballyalley@h... Fri Apr 06 23:45:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 7 Apr 2001 06:45:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 35466 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2001 06:45:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Apr 2001 06:45:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.87) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Apr 2001 07:46:40 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 23:45:36 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Seven Arcadian issues added Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 23:45:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2001 06:45:36.0489 (UTC) FILETIME=[59F34590:01C0BF2E] From: "Bally Alley" April 6, 2001 I have added seven more issues of the Arcadian to www.ballyalley.com They are: Volume 6 - Issue 1 (10 Pages) Volume 6 - Issue 2 (10 Pages) Volume 6 - Issue 3 (10 Pages) Volume 6 - Issue 4 (10 Pages) Volume 6 - Issue 5 (10 Pages) Volume 6 - Issue 6 (10 Pages) Volume 7 - Issue 4 (46 Pages) - Final issue This is one-hundred-six more pages of Astrocade goodness for your reading pleasure. Remember, if you have trouble downloading these Adobe Acrobat files, left click and save them to your hard drive. You will be able to view them fine at this point. Adam Trionfo From jwkrych@n... Sat Apr 07 13:43:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 7 Apr 2001 20:43:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 27439 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2001 20:43:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Apr 2001 20:43:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Apr 2001 20:43:36 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.126] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id ABA0CAA0030A; Sat, 07 Apr 2001 15:42:08 -0400 Message-ID: <000901c0bfa6$360d6de0$7e4f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Seven Arcadian issues added Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 17:03:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0BF84.AE10D1A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0BF84.AE10D1A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adam! I only wish my ISP wasn't so tempermental about Bally Alley. I can access a= t work, but cannot save files to disk from our kiosks. Can you give me the = exact URL numbers? That seems to work mostly. Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0BF84.AE10D1A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Adam!
 
I only wish my ISP wasn't so tempermental about Bally A= lley. I=20 can access at work, but cannot save files to disk from our kiosks. Can you = give=20 me the exact URL numbers? That seems to work mostly.
 
Jim
 
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0BF84.AE10D1A0-- From ballyalley@h... Sun Apr 08 22:42:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 9 Apr 2001 05:42:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 1808 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 05:42:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Apr 2001 05:42:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 05:42:57 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 22:42:57 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 05:42:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Print material yet to come to Bally Alley Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 22:42:57 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Apr 2001 05:42:57.0718 (UTC) FILETIME=[EE5FD560:01C0C0B7] From: "Adam Trionfo" April 8, 2001 Following is a list of items that will eventually make there way to the Bally Alley web site. * Arcadian volume 1-5 (Approx. 600 Single Sided Pages) * Mr. Houser's book of programs (114 Single Sided pages) * DATAMAX UV-1 Z-Grass Graphics System (143 Single Sided pages) * Tom DeFanti's Byte book (25 Single Sided pages) * Bally System Description (6 Double Sided pages) * General Video Assembler (8 Double Sided pages) * Bally ROM source (68 Double Sided pages STILL to do) * Sourcebook Fall 1980 (27 Double Sided Pages) * Sourcebook Summer 1981 (Approx. 50 Double Sided Pages) * Sourcebook Fall 1981 (Approx. 50 Double Sided Pages) * Sourcebook Summer 1982 (Approx. 50 Double Sided Pages) * Sourcebook Spring 1983 (Approx. 50 Double Sided Pages) * Misc. (Approx. 100 Single Sided Pages) Miscellaneous includes game manuals and other items that I have not even looked through yet (hand-written programs and more). This doesn't include newsletters that I expect soon (Astrbugs and Niagara Bug newsletters as well as the lengthy Machine Language Manager manual). Please don't bother asking what some of these items contain because I haven't been able to read most of this. When each is posted, you will see. One fact I DID find out tonight is that the UV-1 is a name for the Astrocade. That explains the Z-Grass manual name. And no, I don't have a Z-Grass keyboard. When one pops up, that lucky owner might even be able to try it. Remember, most of this isn't just a matter of scanning the material, it all needs to be cleaned up so that it is presentable, and most of all, readable. If you have print material that I have not listed here, please contact me. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Wed Apr 11 15:17:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 11 Apr 2001 22:17:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 1572 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 22:17:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Apr 2001 22:17:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.188) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 22:17:15 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:17:14 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 22:17:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New Astrocade information from Michael White (Lengthy) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:17:13 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Apr 2001 22:17:14.0144 (UTC) FILETIME=[29338A00:01C0C2D5] From: "Adam Trionfo" April 11, 2001 This posting contains a letter that Michael White sent to me. It discusses many of the topics that have come up in the Astrocade discussion group. But who is Michael White? Michael bought his Astrocade in 1979, but it wasn't until a few years later that he heard about the Arcadian and subsequently became a subscriber to the newsletter. In volumes six and seven (the last two years) you will find that his name pops up frequently (he wrote a series called Tricks of the Trade). He wrote a BASIC game called "Quadra" that eventually become more complex and grew to 16K (a rarity on the Astrocade). With urging in 1990 he even made a "Deluxe version." He also wrote Hangman, Snoop Camera, Unpack and others. In the mid-eighties Michael began making cartridges (with permission of the copyright holders) of unavailable Astrocade and third party titles (an early ad for this appears on page 87 (vol. 7) of the Arcadian). He was also able to put just about anything else onto cartridge as well (including BASIC programs). His 16K game, "Quadra" is available as a cartridge (for those with extended memory systems). Michael does NOT have an email account (or even any other computer besides the Astrocade). I sent him a printout of the discussion board up through posting ninety-three. His letter contains comments on what he read there, as well as the to-be-released update of the Astrocade FAQ (currently at version 2.8). This posting letter is long, but well worth the read. I have made several additional comments after his letter (including some information on acquiring cartridges from him in the near future). His letter begins now: Where do I begin? There is so much here all at once I feel I'm catching up from at least a five-year absence! As to the High Res or Commercial mode of the Arcade, there WAS a machine built that did just that. If you look in the old Arcadians you may see an ad asking where to buy the U2 computer. The Bally engineers used this machine to design commercial games on. I don't know who would have one or where. Rumor has it that this machine could also do Consumer mode at the throw of a switch, or maybe that's just a rumor. As to the MLM [Machine Language Manager cartridge], it may be good for some of you, but the Blue Ram Utility has a full function hex editor on board that lets you see the ENTIRE screen and later versions had a disassemble feature that lets you see and learn everything in the system! As to Magic RAM, I hope your assessments of expanding are correct. As it does NOT work outside of the 4K area now. Even the stack area CANNOT move and function properly! See the write up in the Arcadian in Vol. 5 near the end where George Moses and Joy Fenton take their "Annual Fishing Trip." As to "Bank Switching" in the cartridge port, been there, done that, also. If any of you want an old BB [Bally BASIC] program to load without an interface, send me a tape of the program and I'll burn you one ($10.00 for the parts please) and it will be usable. So you see, none of the old software is in danger of being lost this way! The General Video Assembler DID use the 2000 baud interface! The instructions told how. Remember, it was written by Dave Ibach (Vol. 4 Arcadian, Cart swapping). As for comparing The Wizard of Wor game with its commercial counterpart, the coin-op version TALKS(!) if you do remember. Galaxian was totally different in the coin-op game! I know, I worked at a vending Co. in the 1980's. Here's an idea that was tossed around but tabled because of lack of experience! A BASIC that puts its program in the 3-4K area instead of Bit Mapping Screen RAM. The Pack and Unpack routines could be totally omitted. Taping could also be omitted, freeing up space for the handling of the other two screen colors! A 64K RAM board would be needed (or similar) to create BASIC programs, but the games would plug in and Run instantly on anyone's arcade! There would be a few details to work out. But if you people out there know Z-80 [machine] language, perhaps you can make it work. Or maybe R&L already had one running as they had about a dozen BASICs written for their machine back in Sept 1983 at the Astro-Bash! Also, I had to do BB as well as AB [Astro BASIC] and BRB [Blue Ram BASIC] versions of the BASIC-carts, so as to get the $ function to work on the check-book program for Peggy Gladden. BB games available. As for the format AB used for taping, the two even bits represent the program, the two odd bits were the screen picture! As the entire 4K screen was taped, minus the stack. The exact order of packing can be asserted from the Unpack command in the Blue Ram Utility thanks to John Perkins. I have two questions: 1) "Missile Attack" You have it listed [in version 2.8 of the FAQ] as an Astrocade release. I never knew that is WAS released. I was told to modify I.C.B.M Attack for the Bally joysticks as Don Gladden [of New Image software] drug his feet and didn't do it. Was there a 2020 Missile Attack [a reference to the Bally FAQ] released that worked on Bally handles or not? 2) "Music Maker" On your web page [ballyalley.com], you show a box [manual, actually] labeled 1981. Nobody I knew ever bought one, and I've never seen that box before. George Moses had the software and Leroy Flamm made the circuit boards to have about thirty of them made. I have about a dozen left. Is there more out there? Where? As to a monitor connection, Dave Carson hooked it up and got black and white also. He made a few phone calls and got it working. But I don't know what he had to do. The Dust Cover (cartridge rack) was changed by Bally in 1979, not 1981 by Astrocade. Astrocade seems to have shipped out whatever one was on hand at any given time. EB [Extended BASIC] was on cassette, not Blue Ram BASIC! EB was written by Jay Fenton for extended memory systems and used by the Viper! Blue Ram Utility won't even run with EB but requires BRB to operate! Michael's letter also included a very short list of hardware and software that he had on cartridge and cassette. He also extends the offer to make cartridges of cassette programs (he still has parts available to create about one-hundred-twenty cartridges-- more if he gets more circuit boards made). Before I post this information, I want to make sure that he knows what he is getting himself into. He would be using his Astrocade to make the cartridges (as always), using a modified version of the EPROM burner for the Blue Ram. Let me make a few comments to clear up Michael's letter in a few places: 1) On the "General Video Assembler." This is a two-pass assembler released on cassette for extended memory systems. Michael told me that it was used to create the "Sneaky Snake" cartridge. 2) On the "$ function." For those of you that don't know, Astro BASIC eliminated this command that was included in the earlier Bally BASIC language. It accessed the Calculator program to take advantage of some of its functions. 3) On "Unpack." I will test this command when I get a functional Blue Ram Utility. Hopefully any information I gain will help Bob Colbert create the tape utility program ("AstroWAV," as we have been calling it here) for the PC. 4) On "Missile Attack." The last person that worked on the FAQ (Lance Squire) lists the program "Missile Attack" with these comments, "'never made production' They may have put it on the list anticipating working out a deal to buy ICBM Attack from me. (Brett Bilbrey). That fact is NOT listed on version 2.8 of the FAQ that Michael read-- it will be. And, by the way, Michael DID convert ICBM Attack to work with joysticks and sold it on cartridge as "Missile Attack." But it never had an official release. 5) On "Music Maker." Michael is referring to this picture of the Music Maker manual: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/pics/manual_covers/manual_music_maker_I.jpg I have this manual, but the pages inside are blank. I always thought it was a printing error. Richard Houser, the person I received it from, was a in a position to receive oddball material from Bally or Astrovision, so I am not at all surprised to learn this. 6) On "Extended BASIC". The version that shipped with the Viper I is called "Vipersoft BASIC". The letter also references issues of the Arcadian that are not up on the Bally Alley website yet. Give me time, they will be. Michael sent me photocopies of the manual for the "Machine Language Manager" cartridge (47 double-sided pages), and most (all?) issues of the newsletter, "Niagara B.U.G. Bulletin." He also said he would send me more "ads, instructions, etc." I hope this information from Michael spurs some of you to ask him questions, as he is VERY enthusiastic about the Astrocade and has an excellent memory. Any posting about this letter will find its way to Michael through me. If you have questions for him, post here, and he will read them. Be specific (and patient), because he will be responding through the U.S. mail, and I will be typing his comments (like I did here). I expect that he will have no problem with being written to directly, but I need to ask him to make sure before posting his address. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Fri Apr 13 00:07:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 13 Apr 2001 07:07:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 34921 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 07:07:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2001 07:07:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.120) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 07:07:08 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:07:07 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Adam Trionfo writes an Astro BASIC program Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:07:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Apr 2001 07:07:07.0994 (UTC) FILETIME=[5A39CBA0:01C0C3E8] From: "Bally Alley" April 12, 2001 I was playing around with Astro BASIC learning how to use it, so I wrote this program to learn some commands. This short program draws 144 5x5 squares on the screen then goes though the Astrocade's colors (remember BASIC can only show 2 colors at once, foreground and background). If you type this in, leave out all the comments (of course). Adam Trionfo 1 .ADAM TRIONFO 2 .4-12-2001 2 .DRAWS 144 SQUARES 3 .AND GOES THROUGH 4 .ASTROCADE COLORS 5 . 10 CLEAR 20 X=-78;Y=41 24 . 25 . DRAW SQUARES 26 . 30 FOR I=1TO 152STEP1 40 BOX X,Y,5,5,1 50 X=X+10 60 IF X>72X=-88;Y=Y-10 70 NEXT I 74 . 75 .CHANGE BACKGROUND 76 . 80 FOR B=0TO 254STEP1 90 BC=B 100 NEXT B 104 . 105 .CHANGE FOREGROUND 106 . 110 FOR F=0TO 254STEP1 120 FC=F 130 NEXT F 134 . 135 .CHANGE BOTH 136 . 140 F=254 150 FOR B=0TO254STEP1 160 BC=B;FC=F 170 F=F-1 180 NEXT B 184 . 185 .ORIGINAL COLORS 186 . 190 BC=7;FC=0 From ballyalley@h... Fri Apr 13 23:30:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 14 Apr 2001 06:30:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 66013 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 06:30:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Apr 2001 06:30:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 06:30:30 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 23:30:30 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Permission from Robert Fabris of the Arcadian Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 23:31:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Apr 2001 06:30:30.0820 (UTC) FILETIME=[67056640:01C0C4AC] From: "Bally Alley" April 13, 2001 It may be Friday the thirteenth, but I have good news. I received an email today from Robert Fabris. He sent me a detailed and informative history of the Astrocade for use as the introduction for the future Astrocade CD. It is excellent, and really shines light into many areas that many of us have wondered about. Of course, it IS for the CD and won't be distributed otherwise-- I guess this is Friday the Thirteenth after all. And, news that is equally as good, Robert wrote, "...you have my permission to republish the Arcadian online, and to convert listings to WAV files - as long as the Arcadian is credited." Permission to place the Arcadian online has already begun, but it has been unclear what could be done with the programs themselves. Could I make WAV files and place them online too? Well, now I know, I DO have permission to have the programs from the Arcadian online. The task now shifts from seeking permission to distribute the programs, to the challenging job of gathering all the programs up, digitizing them, and making sure that they will load on ANY Astro BASIC. One final item to mention. I asked Robert the correct way to pronounce his last name. He wrote, "And as to pronunciation, try "Fabric" and replace 'c' with 's'." Adam Trionfo From cybpunks@m... Sat Apr 14 12:57:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 14 Apr 2001 19:57:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 62680 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 19:57:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2001 19:57:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls01.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.20) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 19:57:51 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3EJvpC17582 for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 12:57:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010414125938.0266f0d8@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 13:00:39 -0700 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: super In-Reply-To: <987244077.322.91641.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders Excellent work. I'm guessing that you are looking these guys numbers up and then doing the cold call? It's scary to do that but it's the only way. From guygg@3... Sat Apr 14 13:43:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: guygg@3... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 14 Apr 2001 20:43:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 34672 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 20:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2001 20:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp10.atl.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.246) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 20:43:41 -0000 Received: from guy (user-33qtbra.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.175.106]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA05928 for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003901c0c526$72720cc0$0100a8c0@3...> To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010414125938.0266f0d8@p...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] super Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:04:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0C4FC.8938AF10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 From: "Guy G. Gordon" ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0C4FC.8938AF10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Excellent work indeed. It just warms my heart to know there are others wit= h the soft spot and dedication to this system. I look forward to ANY conte= nt that can be shared to the masses. I just finally scrounged out some Bally tapes and such. Haven't had the ti= me to check out what's on them, but will do so sometime soon. I'm also sti= ll digging for anything Bally related I can find. Keep up the outstanding work... It's appreciated. Guy Gordon guygg@3... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Glenn Saunders=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 3:00 PM Subject: [ballyalley] super Excellent work. I'm guessing that you are looking these guys numbers up= =20 and then doing the cold call? It's scary to do that but it's the only wa= y. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Click Here to Find Software Faster=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0C4FC.8938AF10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Excellent work indeed.  It just warms= my heart=20 to know there are others with the soft spot and dedication to this system.&= nbsp;=20 I look forward to ANY content that can be shared to the masses.
 
I just finally scrounged out some Bal= ly tapes=20 and such.  Haven't had the time to check out what's on them, but will = do so=20 sometime soon.  I'm also still digging for anything Bally related I ca= n=20 find.
 
Keep up the outstanding work...  It's= =20 appreciated.
 
Guy Gordon
guygg@3...
 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 Gl= enn=20 Saunders
To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 3:0= 0=20 PM
Subject: [ballyalley] super

Excellent work.  I'm guessing that you are lookin= g=20 these guys numbers up
and then doing the cold call?  It's scary = to do=20 that but it's the only way.



Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
ballyalley-unsubsc= ribe@yahoogroups.com



Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0C4FC.8938AF10-- From ward.shrake@w... Mon Apr 16 21:43:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 17 Apr 2001 04:43:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 74002 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 04:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2001 04:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ei.egroups.com) (10.1.2.114) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 04:43:43 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.2.59] by ei.egroups.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2001 04:43:42 -0000 Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 04:43:38 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Sneaking up on a Bally Astrocade multicart design Message-ID: <9bghlq+4i43@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1164 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.81.35.128 From: "Ward Shrake" Just had to post... I'm all excited about getting my first multicart up and running! This one isn't for the Bally Astrocade; it is an 8-in- 1 multicart I designed for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 game system. It is ugly but functional, with dip switches to select a new game. But I'm thinking about that design in terms of seperate modules, so that as I get it working, I can just add known-good, pre-designed modules into future projects, such as a multicart for the Astrocade. My first prototype of a Bally Astrocade cart will hopefully be up and running "real soon now". (When it is, I'll say so here.) Question for Michael White: What do you have, as far as raw parts for making Bally Astrocade cartridges? Blank circuit boards? Plastic case housings? Both? Neither? What? I'm mostly just curious at the moment, but if I do get a design up and running for a Bally multicart, having plastic housings available would be a good thing? If that's not do-able, common carts can of course be used as donors. (And if I had to, I do know how to make raw castings using resins.) Ward Shrake http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/ http://classicgaming.com/vic20/ From ballyalley@h... Mon Apr 16 23:07:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 17 Apr 2001 06:07:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 77003 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 06:07:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2001 06:07:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.119) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 06:07:41 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:07:40 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: References: <9bghlq+4i43@e...> Subject: Bally cartridge cases Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:08:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0C6CA.2136B220" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Apr 2001 06:07:40.0888 (UTC) FILETIME=[B5B79D80:01C0C704] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0C6CA.2136B220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable April 16, 2001 I know that Michael White has about 120 circuit boards, but many more plast= ic cartridge cases (about 700, I think). I'll be talking with him at the e= nd of the week, I'll ask him again. Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0C6CA.2136B220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
April 16, 2001
 
I know that Michael White has about 120 circuit boards,= but=20 many more plastic cartridge cases (about 700, I think).  I'll be= =20 talking with him at the end of the week, I'll ask him again.
 
Adam Trionfo
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0C6CA.2136B220-- From jwkrych@n... Tue Apr 17 15:23:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 17 Apr 2001 22:23:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 50545 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 22:23:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2001 22:23:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 22:23:30 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.188] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A20A8719015E; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:22:02 -0400 Message-ID: <001601c0c78f$dcc01340$bc4f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <9bghlq+4i43@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Bally cartridge cases Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:43:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0C76E.54DD67A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0C76E.54DD67A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ATTENTION RETROGAMERS, COMPUTER COLLECTORS, VIDEO GAME FANATICS!!!! WE'RE BACK.... CCAG 2001 (Classic Computer and Gaming 2001) If you like collecting old computers, video games, and enjoy using them sti= ll, then come join us on: June 30th, 2001 9AM till 6PM National Guard Armory IT'S ON ROUTE 57!!! (actual address) 3520 Grove Avenue Lorain, Ohio 44055-2048 (On Route 57, going North of I-90/Route 2) IT'S FREE! Both vendors and attendees! Computer User Groups and vendors inside, flea market outside! 5,000 square feet of indoor space and an additional 5,000 square feet of ou= tdoor space is available along with ample parking. Setup: 29th, June, 2001=20 6PM-10PM Please Call Ahead for Reservations: Jim W. Krych jwkrych@n... 440-979-9295 Fred M. Horvat fmh@n... 440-286-2566 And these other CCAG 2001 organizers: Thomas J. McLaren sirthomas@u... Please visit this site: http://tomheroes.com/ccag.htm As of 04/17/2001 User Groups: Erie PA Atari Group=20 TI Chips Cleveland Classic Atari Group Vendors: C.S. Vintage Games L.R.O. Computers Tomorrow's Heroes=20 Retropolis Songbird Productions Video Game Connection Ramcharged Computers People/Organizations: Fred Wagaman Harry Dodgson=20 Alan Hewston Thomas Mclaren Andy Frueh Classic Gamer Magazine Curt Vendel(Atari Historical Society) John Litva Possible Attendees!!! Michael White(Bally/Astrocade) Atari7800.com=20 Special Guest!!! Pitfall Harry We are looking to do a "Classic Game Experience" this year! One room is going to be set up for playing classic computer and video game = cartoons and commercials. The other room is going to be an emulator room-MA= ME, etc.=20 We already have one person bringing a Crazy Climber cocktail arcade game, J= ohn Litva. Please email us if you wish to bring an arcade game to the show. See ya at the CCAG! ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0C76E.54DD67A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

ATTENTION RETROGAMERS, COMPUTER COLLECTORS, VIDEO GAME=20 FANATICS!!!!

 

WE’RE BACK……..

 

 

 

 

CCAG 2001

(Classic Computer and Gaming 2001)

 

If you like collecting old computers, video games, and en= joy=20 using them still, then come join us on:

 

June 30th, 2001

9AM till 6PM

National Guard Armory

IT’S ON ROUTE 57!!!

(actual address)

3520 Grove Avenue

Lorain, Ohio 44055-2048

(On Route 57, going North of I-90/Route 2)

 

IT’S FREE!

Both vendors and attendees!

Computer User Groups and vendors inside, flea market=20 outside!

5,000 square feet of indoor space and an additional 5,000= square=20 feet of outdoor space is available along with ample parking.

 

Setup: 29th, June, 2001

6PM-10PM

Please Call Ahead for Reservations:

Jim W. Krych jwkrych@n...

440-979-9295

Fred M. Horvat fmh@n...

440-286-2566

And these other CCAG 2001 organizers:

Thomas J. McLaren sirthomas@u...

Please visit this site:

http://tomheroes.com/ccag.htm

 

 

As of 04/17/2001

User Groups:

Erie PA Atari Group

TI Chips

Cleveland Classic Atari Group

Vendors:

C.S. Vintage Games

L.R.O. Computers

Tomorrow's Heroes

Retropolis

Songbird Productions

Video Game Connection

Ramcharged Computers

People/Organizations:

Fred Wagaman

Harry Dodgson

Alan Hewston

Thomas Mclaren

Andy Frueh

Classic Gamer Magazine

Curt Vendel(Atari Historical Society)

John Litva

Possible Attendees!!!

Michael White(Bally/Astrocade)

Atari7800.com

Special Guest!!!

Pitfall Harry

 

We are looking to do a "Classic Game Experience" this yea= r!

One room is going to be set up for playing classic comput= er and=20 video game cartoons and commercials. The other room is going to be an emula= tor=20 room-MAME, etc.

We already have one person bringing a Crazy Climber cockt= ail=20 arcade game, John Litva. Please email us if you wish to bring an arcade gam= e to=20 the show.

See ya at the CCAG!

 

------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0C76E.54DD67A0-- From ballyalley@h... Wed Apr 18 13:10:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 18 Apr 2001 20:10:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 42681 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 20:10:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 18 Apr 2001 20:10:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.205) by mta3 with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 20:10:38 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:10:38 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Overview of the Astrocade and its Relation to the UV-1 Computer Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:10:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Apr 2001 20:10:38.0051 (UTC) FILETIME=[A277FB30:01C0C843] From: "Bally Alley" Overview of the Astrocade and Its Relation to the UV-1 Computer By Adam Trionfo Michael White (who I've been talking with recently about the Astrocade) told me about the UV-1 computer. He didn't know much about the machine, but had heard rumors that it was used for development at Bally to create cartridges. The "rumor is that it had a switch for 16K and 64K." He DID emphasize that this was just a rumor and that he didn't know much about the machine or ZGRASS. He never "bought into that." Being unsure just how much this UV-1 machine is related to the Astrocade, I began investigating the connection of the UV-1 with the Astrocade. I have already run into some surprising and informative information. I have received responses from two people that worked with the UV-1, and another from Tom Defanti himself (the primary author of the GRASS language and more). Following are the responses they gave to me. You will find my comments on this information after the last email. I separate each email with five indented apostrophes followed by who wrote the email and when it was received. Though these emails were NOT conducted in an interview-type manner, but I have presented some of them this way (it makes reading them easier). Finally, I have done little editing of these letters, save for some very minor typos. ***** Jane Veeder (Part I) - April 16, 2001 JANE - Boy, what a Pandora's box you have opened! Who are you and what is your interest in the long forgotten early days of computer graphics???!!?? After one of em appearing in the SIGGRAPH 2000 History Exhibition, I finally threw away my two zboxes last summer after carting em around for twenty years as well as a couple of videogame cabinets, etc...boy that old stuff was heavy...I just had to move on... ADAM - I have been searching for information on the UV-1 (late seventies, early eighties) computer and I found your name connected with it. Is there anything you can tell me about it? The UV-1 was a graphics machine, can you tell me anything about the graphic capabilities of this computer. Did you program in ZGRASS? Do you remember how much RAM it had? The UV-1 cost, I think, ten-thousand dollars; was it a personal computer, or more than that? How were programs saved (other than NTSC video)? JANE - ZGRASS (Graphics Symbiosis System for the Z-80) was developed in Chicago in the late 70's. It first ran on the "add-on" - actually it was an add-under - to the Bally Arcade. Then a little company called Datamax was created to manufacture the UV-1 which was based on the Bally Chip set and the electronics designed at Dave Nutting and Assocs. in Chicago. I bought the second UV-1 manufactured early in 1980. I was part of the community of people who worked with Tom on writing documentation, creating demos, developing the language, designing apps, and making art. It was a rare time which created interesting career trajectories for everyone who participated. ADAM - If you used the UV-1 only as an artist's tool, you may not be able to answer any of these questions. JANE - ZRASS was a descendent of GRASS, developed by Tom for his doctoral thesis at Ohio State. It was developed FOR artists and designers based upon Tom's brilliant thought that such people could program if they just didn't have to use Fortran. This was a time (reverb) BEFORE APPLICATIONS......>:) If you wanted it to do anything, you had to write it. In those days, artists and designers who wanted to work with computers HAD TO PROGRAM because that was the only way to communicate with them. Think about this: The zbox was released when the paint program was a RESEARCH topic..... A few applications were developed for the machine by Real Time Designs, the startup created to foster the UV-1 and ZGRASS, and a few other people, but mostly those who used it created apps for their own special purposes, including interactive art installations, drawing programs, animation development, etc. It think it cost about $3-4K and worked with a Lear-Siegler terminal and graphics monitor and eventually a graphics tablet, a floppy disk drive, digitizer, Winchester drive, etc. I don't remember how much memory it had, but my installation WARPITOUT filled a 192K EPROM board which was developed to fit in the zbox and ran it like a videogame. The language interpreter (you could also compile your programs for faster performance) lived in eproms and incorporated a rudimentary operating system adequate for storing and retrieving programs, etc. All this, in a particle board case with wood-grain Formica.... ADAM - Regardless, I have never seen ANY animated work completed on the UV-1. Do you know where I might be able to see some-- to buy some? JANE - BUY SOME? HAHAHAHA. Sorry...I laugh because at the time this was all done, there wasn't much money in hi tech startups or computer animation...>:) ADAM - The UV-1 interests me because it is a relative of the Bally Professional Arcade, a computer marketed in late 1977 by Bally. The Bally unit was rumored to have an add-on (unreleased) that would have some of the capability of the UV-1, and I am trying to follow the muddled history of the UV-1 machine. JANE - Yes, we all started out learning to program in Tiny Basic (developed by Jay Fenton, one of the founders of Macromind (now Macromedia) and now Jamie Faye Fenton) on the Bally Arcade and then graduated to ZGRASS. ADAM - I hope to hear from you soon. JANE - I've attached a couple of images from the zgrass days. [I have placed these two excellent images in the file area of the message board-- Adam]. I am in the slow process of getting a bio website together and will have more on that. Montana was also recently shown at MOMA-NY as part of a historical series (it's in their permanent collection). Good luck with your adventure... ***** From Tom Defanti - April 14, 2001 ADAM - Is there anything you can tell me about the development and use of the UV-1? When was it finally released? In what numbers? The UV-1 was a graphics machine, can you tell me about the graphic capabilities of this computer? You created ZGRASS, right (and earlier GRASS)? TOM - Oh, there were maybe 300 made. It had the high-res (320x204x2bit) version of the chipset in the Bally Arcade, which was also used in the Wizard of Wor and Gorf games (right Jamie?). A bunch of us wrote Zgrass, including Jay, Nola Donato, and me. I was the primary author of the PDP-11 based Grass language in the 70's. We started Zgrass in late 1977 and continued to work on it until about 1982. (It then was rewritten in C as RT/1 and worked on IBM PCs with Targa boards and Macs. Work continued on RT/1 until 1987, culminating in a major museum exhibition, The Interactive Image, at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago which ran late 1987-early 1988, and then was cloned a bunch.) ADAM - The UV-1 cost, I think, ten-thousand dollars; was it a personal computer, or more than that? How were programs saved (other than NTSC video)? TOM - As Jane notes, it started about $3,000 and ramped up to $20,000 with every bell and whistle possible, like ram disks, video digitizers, hard disks, etc. It used 5.25" floppies (192K if I remember correctly) and had 32K of ram, standard, including the 16K of video ram. Like the Bally Arcade, it produced just fine NTSC video, something the Apple II never did. ADAM - I have never seen ANY animated work completed on the UV-1. Do you know where I might be able to see some-- to buy some? TOM - The SIGGRAPH video review early issues have some pieces (see www.siggraph.org). If you are really interested, I'll go look up the specific issues for you. ADAM - The UV-1 interests me because it is a relative of the Bally Professional Arcade, a computer marketed in late 1977 by Bally. The Bally unit was rumored to have an add-on (unreleased) that would have some of the capability of the UV-1, and I am trying to follow the muddled history of the UV-1 machine. TOM - We definitely produced an add-on. Copper Giloth's Skippy Peanut Butter Jars piece was produced on it. It was the low-res version, of course. We made about 7 of them. They had the most amazingly forgiving audio tape recording and playback software. When Bally bailed and sold the Arcade to Astrocade, we also started up the Datamax company which produced the wood grain formica UV-1 versions of Zgrass with essentially the guts of the commercial videogames Bally was producing with the chipset. ADAM - If it interests you, I have a site dedicated to the Bally Astrocade at www.ballyalley.com TOM - Cool. Give me your postal address and I'll send you some stuff next time I'm going through the archives. TOM - Here's some relevant papers... I'm sure many of them are out of print. The ones before 1978 are on the Grass System. T.A. DeFanti, "Computer Graphics as a Way of Life," introductory chapter to The Algorithmic Image by Michael Rivlin, 1986 T.A. DeFanti, "The Mass Impact of Videogame Technology," Advances in Computing, Vol. 23, Academic Press, 1984 T.A. DeFanti, "Extended Memory Use in the Zgrass Graphics System," Proceedings of Intergraphics '83, April 1983 T.A. DeFanti, "The Zgrass Glossary and Lessons," published as tutorial notes for Intergraphics'83, 144 pages, Tokyo, Japan, April 1983. T.A. DeFanti , J. Fenton and N. Donato., "Basic Zgrass," Computer Graphics, Vol. 12, No. 3, August, 1978 T. Towle and T.A. DeFanti, "GAIN: An Interactive Program for Teaching Interactive Computer Graphics Programming," Computer Graphics, Vol. 12, No. 3, August 1978. T.A. DeFanti and D.J. Sandin, "Instructional Electronic Visualization," Proceedings of the IEEE Workshop on Picture Data Description and Management, April 1977 T.A. DeFanti, D.J. Sandin, and R. Ainsworth, "Control Structures for Performance Graphics," SIGPLAN Notices, Vol. II, No. 6, 6/76 T.A. DeFanti, "The Digital Component of the Circle Graphics Habitat," Proceedings of the National Computer Conference, 1976. T.A. DeFanti, "Toward Loopless Interactive Graphics Programming," Proceedings of the Conference on Computer Graphics, Pattern Recognition and Data Structure, IEEE Catalog #75CH0981-1C, May 1975. T.A. DeFanti, D.J. Sandin and T.H. Nelson, "Computer Graphics as a Way of Life," Computers and Graphics, Vol I, No. 1, May 1975 ***** Jane Veeder (Part II) - April 16, 2001 Jane sent me this response after reading what Tom had to say. JANE : In response to Tom's mentioning the SIGGRAPH Video Reviews (ongoing videotape journal founded by Tom which documents the history of computer graphics) where you can see some Zgrass/UV-1 work, here are some of the issues which I know include examples of animation and other work: Issue 3: ZGRASS Paint Program - Giloth (demo) Issue 5: Real Time Design ZGRASS Demo (reel to the Theme from Star Trek v1.0) Issue 8: Warpitout - Veeder (a document demonstrating and explaining the work) Issue 14: Wag the Flag - Kesler and Balch Issue 22: Calculated Movements - Cuba Issue 25: 4KTape - Veeder Issue 40: Interactive Image - Defanti et al (educational installations) There are probably more, but I can't find em right now. If you can find someone locally who has the tapes, you could at least look at em. To purchase the tapes you should look at the www.siggraph.org website under 'publications' (note that there are many items on each tape from many sources gleaned from that year, so it's not all Zgrass stuff by any means). ***** Joe Reitzer - April 14, 2001 Joe's email is more like a letter, so I have not included what I wrote to him (I did ask about a Vortex voice-synthesizer chip being inside the UV-1). Following is his reply: Adam, I used the UV-1 extensively from 1981 - 1990's. I own one and maybe a second in working condition. Almost full-blown. The basic system used a Z-80 processor, 1 graphics buffer, NTSC & RF Video output, mono audio out, RS-232 port, parallel port, 2 contact switches, dumb terminal. This was basic basic. Most people worked with this configuration, all of the above but also a 5.25 floppy drive (Micropolis 2 dual sided 400k), Summagraphics bit pad one, RGB monitor or Trinitron monitor. Some systems had the capability of a video digitizer (video input from a sync b/w video camera), and a 5 meg hardrive. OS ranged from different versions of ZGRASS. ZGRASS was blown into a chip and was hardware booted. The system took up 32k of memory. Available ram was 32k also but was different then the OS ram. 1 screen buffer could hold an image of 320x240 with a 4 color display, software capable of 8 colors, and I think the video digitizer faked 16??? A full screen save took up 16k of memory. A better system usually had 16 frame buffers instead of just 1. This meant you could cycle or address any buffer in any order. Thru programming you double buffer and write on 1 screen and display another. Very cool for realtime graphics. Another screen (buffer) option arrive in around 1986-1988(?), 64 screens. Audio output was a basic game chip used in Bally systems from around at that time. I believe it was capable of 3 Voices, 1 LFO, some other stuff. you programmed it like a regular analog synth of the time but without patchcords. No it did not come with the Vortex. I do though remember using a Vortex on a soundpiece "Love Electric". It was a standalone box that was programmed via RS-232. It was pretty cool. All in all it was a very cool box. There are somethings I remember it could do I miss and wish they were available in other systems. As I am sure you are aware the system was based on ZGRASS, a port of the GRASS programming language that Tom DeFanti wrote as his PHD thesis at Ohio State, Charle Csuri's first PHD student I believe. GRASS was the system that the first computer graphics used by the movie Star Wars (the training holographic projection for the trenchs on the Death Star programmed by Larry Cuba) it used a DEC PDP 11/45 or something like that. I worked with UV-1s at the School of the Art Institute and also UIC. I have had owned 1 since 1984 or 1985. Chicago was the hub of ZGRASS. Normally I do not respond like this to emails from unknown people but the "zbox" was a Cool machine and holds a special place in my digital memory. Joe Reitzer ***** Comments on this information These responses from people involved with the UV-1 really do speak for themselves. There is little to comment upon, but a will mention a few things. The UV-1 is more than what I expected. I thought it was basically an Astrocade with more RAM and the ZGRASS language. The three emails (Tom's in particular) clears up the mystery of this little-known computer, the UV-1. Though there were only about seven add-ons for the Astrocade, to learn that about three hundred UV-1's were made was surprising. I had always thought that it would be less than five, certainly no more than a dozen. The specification of the machine is about expected from previews of the Add-Under in the Arcadian, excluding extras like the hard drive, digitizer and some others. I need to follow-up on some of the references that Tom made to papers that he wrote (and videos to be seen). More information is will be gleaned from them. Joe's email is full of enthusiasm, for he was a die-hard user, having used the machine until the nineties. He still even has two machines. I am very pleased that Jane sent along two pictures. Make sure to take a look at them on the Astrocade message group, under the Files section (as a reminder the group's URL is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley). When you take a look at "Montana" and "WARPITOUT," you'll be able to reaffirm that an artist really makes hardware shine. This information on the UV-1 settles loose ends on the history and involvement of ZGRASS with the Astrocade, but it also opens some others up. There definitely is more on this topic to be discovered before I am satisfied, but Bally Alley's target is the Astrocade, and chasing all the spin-off's of the machine will quickly make the job of documenting the Astrocade heavy indeed. Rest assured, after the core of Bally Alley settles down (that is most scanning and uploading of PDF files is complete), I will look more into this machine. -- Adam Trionfo, April 18, 2001 From cybpunks@m... Thu Apr 19 22:04:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 05:04:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 16175 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 05:04:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 05:04:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls02.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.15) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 05:04:18 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3K54Fi11063 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 22:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010419220119.0268dc80@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 22:07:11 -0700 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: UV-1 In-Reply-To: <987669837.267.14465.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders >After one of em appearing in the SIGGRAPH 2000 History Exhibition, I finally threw away my two zboxes last summer after carting em around for twenty years as well as a couple of videogame cabinets, etc...boy that old stuff was heavy...I just had to move on...< This is exactly why this project is so important, and so timely. If Joe still has one of these, you've got to get some of this stuff archived. If we're planning to put together an expanded Astrocade like the UV-1, then we should reverse engineer it. Maybe then we'll be able to use ZGrass software on the new expansion device. The history of the Astrocade should not just be limited to the games that came out for it. It's clear that the offshoots of the Astrocade can be felt in Macromedia and other computer graphics. This is very obscure information that deserves to be documented. BTW, one guy you should try to get in touch with is Tom McHugh. He wrote Wizard of Wor. I couldn't find him when I was producing the Arcade Party Pak interviews, but if you are having good luck finding people, you should track him down. From solder_guy@m... Sun Apr 22 15:09:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 22 Apr 2001 22:09:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 62713 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2001 22:09:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2001 22:09:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail23.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.203) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Apr 2001 22:09:19 -0000 Received: œby mail23.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA10712; Sun, 22 Apr 2001 15:09:19 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 15:09:19 -0700 Message-Id: <200104222209.PAA10712@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.45.186] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Multi IC chip cart ! From: "solder_guy Last Name" Recently I bought 6 new Astrocade IC ROM chips .. Nothing rare here .. The games are: Wizard, Space Fortress, Panzer/RB, Star Battle, Galactic Invasion, and Seawolf. My original plan was to see if I could put one chip in the motherboard and have another built-in game. That did not work ... So this afternoon I took one cart (Star Battle) and clipped out the chip .. and replaced it with a 28 pin socket ... and successfully tested each of the chips ... Then I outlined what space I would need to cut away from the cart case bottom to have access to the IC socket. Then I hacked away that slender amount of plastic .. and now I have a socketed cart into which I can plug any of the Astrocade ICs. Very nice thing to have. Sure I could have gotten a PCB and cart casing from the guy who still has them .. but I have access to these ICs now and wanted to test them. So I'm thinking of buying more of the ICs from this same guy .. anybody want this setup? It could be a great thing to have until a multicart is available. And would other games be able to be burned into ROMs? Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From solder_guy@m... Sun Apr 22 15:18:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 22 Apr 2001 22:18:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 76543 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2001 22:18:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2001 22:18:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail23.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.203) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Apr 2001 22:18:55 -0000 Received: œby mail23.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA11591; Sun, 22 Apr 2001 15:18:55 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 15:18:55 -0700 Message-Id: <200104222218.PAA11591@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.45.186] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Multi IC chip cart ! From: "solder_guy Last Name" Oh .. One more thing: The Galactic Invasion chip says "Galactic Invasion" on the start-up menu .. I have not seen this before .. My other Galactic Invasion cart says "Galaxian" on the menu (as reported in the earlier FAQ.) Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Mon Apr 23 15:05:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 23 Apr 2001 22:05:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 68634 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 22:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Apr 2001 22:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.125) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 22:05:32 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 15:05:31 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Astrocade Add-under blueprints and others Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 15:06:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Apr 2001 22:05:31.0658 (UTC) FILETIME=[8371AEA0:01C0CC41] From: "Bally Alley" April, 23, 2001 I now have several Astrocade blueprints (some as large 3' x 4 1/2'-- the rest are not much smaller). Some of these are for hardware that was released, but the majority of them are for the Add-under. Some have some water damage, but are quite readable. Here is what I have: -- Video Keyboard Base -- Astrovision Add-Under -- Bally Monitor + Video Chroma board schematics (I need to figure out how to send this to James) -- Astro-Vision Add Under Keyboard Bezel -- Astro-vision Add Under Read-Shield -- Astrovision Add Under Cover -- Astro-vision Add-Under Rear Shield Insulator -- Astrovision Add Under Keyboard Base -- Astrovision Add-under Base -- Astro-vision Add-Under Front Shield Insulator -- Astro-vision Add-Under Front Shield Photocopies of blueprints -- Blue Ram schematics -- 64K board from R&L (From the board's manual) I am not sure what to do with these. I am going to call around this week and see if I can't get these copied somehow (perhaps even digitally). Each of these blueprints give exact dimensions and widths and are VERY detailed. If anyone has any ideas on how to copy these so that I can post them on Bally Alley, let me know. Adam Trionfo P.S. On the "rare cart" message from this morning. I was going to write something on that subject, but didn't have time (and have since decided not to). I deleted it from the message board. Just ignore it. From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Mon Apr 23 19:01:38 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20343 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 02:01:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2001 02:01:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hm.egroups.com) (10.1.10.45) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 02:01:37 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.127] by hm.egroups.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2001 02:01:34 -0000 Date: 24 Apr 2001 02:01:31 -0000 Message-ID: <988077691.4488.65724.qd@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Notify: From: To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley group. File : /Balytech.htm Uploaded by : ward.shrake@w... Description : Technical info about Bally cartridges You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/Balytech.htm To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ward.shrake@w... From ward.shrake@w... Mon Apr 23 19:19:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 24 Apr 2001 02:19:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 17443 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 02:19:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 24 Apr 2001 02:19:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO b05.egroups.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 02:19:44 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.34] by b05.egroups.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2001 02:19:44 -0000 Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 02:19:42 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: New file uploaded to ballyalley Message-ID: <9c2nru+9gm9@e...> In-Reply-To: <988077691.4488.65724.qd@yahoogroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2392 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.81.40.65 From: "Ward Shrake" Hi all. The file that I just uploaded discusses technical stuff related to the Bally Astrocade. I had it up on the net somewhere else I think, but since this group exists, this is a good place for it to be. It is old but the information in it should still apply well, due to the formerly slow pace of Bally archiving. Basically, it gives the pinouts of the cartridge slot in the Astrocade itself, as well as the pinout of the somewhat unusual ROM chips used in Bally-era machines. (The Commodore VIC-20 and C64 used them, as did some others, but since this is a Bally-only group, I'll just mention that in passing.) To answer one of Solder Guy's questions in a round-about way... there is no cheap, easily-accessible, direct pin-for-pin replacement chip that can be used with the normal, unmodified 24-pin PC boards found inside any of the Bally carts I've opened and inspected to date. (And since I've done lots of archiving, I think that's pretty much everything made by the company itself, although the rare third party stuff I've seen did use standard 28-pin chips on custom made boards. Due to the rarity of such carts, I don't suggest cutting those up!) In other words, unless you can find a special Motorola 68764 EPROM which matches Bally's 2364, you can't burn new ROMs and just insert them into an unmodified board. You have to either make entirely new boards that will fit standard / cheap / plentiful 2764 EPROMs, or cut- and-paste the existing traces to change the board to the new layout. (All these pinouts are included in the text I uploaded.) I know you won't want to hear this, but the last listing I found for a directly compatible chip -- Motorola's 68764 EPROM -- cost $18 per chip... for another $2 or so, you could buy a modern 32-pin chip that holds half a megabyte of storage space. Since that is the single most costly thing you'd have to buy, if you wanted to make a Bally multicart, I can't see it being cost effective to burn $18 ROM games? All this hassle comes about because Bally (and others) used a 24-pin masked ROM that could be special ordered from the chip-making factory at a cost savings, over the 28-pin chips that are more commonly used by EPROM-burning hobbyists. The four "missing" pins cut manufacturing costs back in the day, but make direct replacements a costly idea now. Ward "Don't kill the messenger" Shrake From cybpunks@m... Tue Apr 24 23:07:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 25 Apr 2001 06:07:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 39861 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 06:07:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 25 Apr 2001 06:07:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls01.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.20) by mta1 with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 06:07:11 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3P672K25986 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010424225854.02714008@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:10:12 -0700 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Blueprints In-Reply-To: <988100298.442.82220.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders Depending on the level of detail on the blueprints you may be able to get them shrunk down. I had to do work similar to this with the TIA chip masks that Joe Decuir lent me which were huge. (BTW, I have to tell you that having those documents in my possession felt like having a priceless museum exhibit in my apartment). Anyway, I wound up going to a blueprint place that could do what's known as a CONTACT PRINT. This is like a really quick black and white photograph directly onto a large paper print. The detail on these is very good. I actually have a preliminary contact print of all the TIA chip mask layers lined up together (not perfectly, but still cool) framed and on my wall... If the blueprint has decent contrast then this should work okay. Even if it doesn't (as it was with many of the chip mask transparency layers--I actually had them do large-format photocopies to preboost the contrast before they photographed them) as long as it even barely registers you can fix it up in an image program like Paint Shop Pro or Photoshop after you scan it in. What you're really trying to do is get it small enough that you can feed it through a flatbed scanner while minimizing the need to do multiple scan passes (lining up those images is a pain, let me tell you). Even with the TIA stuff, after it was reduced you could still register the individual traces so I have to think that blueprints/schematics should reduce okay although the line thickness may be an issue. For instance, I could not get the TIA chip PLOT to reduce. The lines were too thin and too faint for the film to pick up. Anyway, your stuff sounds like wonderful material for the eventual CD... I am sure there is just a mountain of stuff out there just waiting for you to discover. Just make sure your contacts don't wind up trashing their stuff before you get around to archiving them! From ward.shrake@w... Thu Apr 26 23:29:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 27 Apr 2001 06:29:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 99132 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 06:29:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2001 06:29:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.46) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 06:29:35 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.2.23] by fj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2001 06:29:34 -0000 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 06:29:33 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Sneaking up on a Bally Astrocade multicart design Message-ID: <9cb3kd+psid@e...> In-Reply-To: <9bghlq+4i43@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2038 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.81.37.192 From: "Ward Shrake" Latest news on the multicart front... I'm plugging away at the design for this thing. I plan to etch my own PC boards, using an original design layout. I spent a bunch of hours working on the design, earlier today. It is still in the preliminary stages, but I think this existing design is workable? (I've put a bit of flexibility into the design; with a few jumpers and such, you can use the same basic board design for more than one type of chip. That doesn't do anyone any good unless they are assembling the board in its raw state, but it can't hurt to make the design more versatile?) I designed the PC board to fit inside a normal plastic Bally cart case, with minimal modifications. Dip switches to select games will be on the right hand side of the cart, looking at a cart when it's inserted. I left plenty of room for a nice looking, fancy label. At this point, the dip switches stick up a bit, out of the case, but that's probably a good thing, as it makes them easier to change? Anyway, things are happening. Next step is for me to finish off the design on paper, then to create photomasks, etch a board, and make a prototype. If it works -- there is always Murphy's Law, isnt' there -- I'll make another announcement then. I'm hoping this takes place in a few weeks if not sooner, but don't hold me to that too firmly. My plan at this point is to take whatever I have, and show it off at the upcoming SC3 meeting (Southern California Classic Collectors). Note that I'm not saying anything about selling these yet. I may or may not do that. I have not 100% decided what I'll do along those lines. Questions about "how much is it" won't do either of us any good, so please don't ask. I'm having fun doing this as a "just for fun" project, and fun keeps me working on it, so that's a good thing. Adam Trionfo asked me to update that text file I posted recently. I will, once other things are out of the way. I don't plan to hog any of the info I'm digging up, or discovering through experimentation. From ballyalley@h... Fri Apr 27 11:57:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 27 Apr 2001 18:57:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 92755 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 18:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2001 18:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.93) by mta2 with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 18:57:36 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:57:35 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Astrocade Multicart with BASIC Games Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:58:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2001 18:57:35.0773 (UTC) FILETIME=[EC252CD0:01C0CF4B] From: "Bally Alley" On Including BASIC Games, Demos and Programs on an Astrocade Multicart By Adam Trionfo Although a multicart is not yet available for the Astrocade, one will eventually arrive. As with multicarts for other systems, an Astrocade multicart should include hard to find games, demos, unreleased programs, etc. But the Astrocade has always been a little different program-wise, having a BASIC cartridge that has an assortment of programs written that are quite good, and always were reasonably assessable to create and distribute during the Astrocade's lifetime. Since far more BASIC programs were created than cartridges, a multicart for the Astrocade should include some of these. I have long imagined that these BASIC programs would be perfect to run from cartridge, and now that Michael White is shedding light into this area, it seems possible that BASIC programs may at some point be available for use on a multicart, or at least made available for emulation. People have always voiced that BASIC is slow. I have not yet personally seen an action game written in AstroBASIC that is as smooth as any of the carts, yet there are BASIC games that don't require fast graphic effects (and these work well, as in Simon). As with programs on any system, there is a large array of BASIC games, ranging from the poor to the excellent. Though the range of BASIC games vary in quality, the general spread is large enough that it would be difficult not to find several programs that a multicart will benefit from. Not all inclusions should be a game either. While I doubt most users would have much interest in using an Astrocade application program (Payroll, for example), several of the graphic demos are worth including on a multicart. Some of the BASIC graphical tricks and demos that might be included on a multicart may be more interesting to look at, but no other so well summarizes the whole world of AstroBASIC programming than the "Arcadian's" symbol of a rocket amid a field of twinkling stars. Compared with other consoles, the Astrocade had only a trickle of officially released cartridges, so it was the BASIC community that fed hungry users of the machine with more of what they wanted: games. A multicart that does not include BASIC programs would be overlooking much of the Astrocade's history and therefore could never give a complete or accurate picture of what Astrocade fans used during the peak of the machine's acceptance. A multicart of any sort will be welcomed with open arms, but it is important that the feeling that this machine created for early adapters is not lost. Let's make sure that the homebrew side of the Astrocade does not become an oversight; it is this aspect of the machine that really sustained users, and to see it lost would be a tragedy. -- April 27, 2001 From ward.shrake@w... Sat Apr 28 09:54:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 28 Apr 2001 16:54:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 28331 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 16:54:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 28 Apr 2001 16:54:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c3.egroups.com) (10.1.10.50) by mta1 with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 16:54:17 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.63] by c3.egroups.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2001 16:54:17 -0000 Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 16:54:12 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Sources of info for general info on multicarts Message-ID: <9cesjk+7igg@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3032 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.81.32.20 From: "Ward Shrake" I am getting a number of questions about general multicart theory and how to apply it to things like the Atari game systems. I don't mind trying to be helpful, but there's no sense re-inventing the wheel. So, here are some web sites I am aware of, that already distribute info along those lines. http://members.home.com/rcolbert1/ http://members.home.com/rcolbert1/multi.htm That's Bob Colbert's home page and detailed instructions on modifying an existing Atari 2600 cart, so that it becomes a 64k cart, with dip switches for game selection. He includes diagrams of the required re- wiring, etc. Bob's site also includes a detailed start-to-finish walk- through on how he made a limited edition Atari cartridge, using common carts as a starting point, and inserting his homemade EPROM and a new label. http://www.netway.com/~hozervideo/index.html Randy Crihfield's web site, with some short-and-sweet instructions on modifying a common Atari 2600 cart to make (almost) any other game. He sells many such carts, and includes schematics with his sales. He also will put user-written games into cartridge form for new game authors who want such a service. See his site for more details. http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/mar97/basics.html This is a web site done by a Robotics club/group from Seattle. They have good explanations of basic circuits. The link above explains the theory of "pull-up resistors," which are necessary for multicarts if you are going to use dip switches for game selection. Most people do, because the only other possibility is to learn how to program the machine itself, at its most complex level, not only to create user interfaces onscreeen, but to control external hardware such as bank- switching carts that are far larger than the machine was ever designed to handle. Almost every user-made multicart uses switches. http://www.emuhq.com/random64/doc1/Joy2600-PC_eng.html Somewhat off-topic, as multicarts go, but on-topic as far as Atari games go. This is a page that describes how to hook a 2600 joystick up to an IBM, so that you can play emulated games with a real stick. http://buerger.metropolis.de/estolberg/ http://members.aol.com/~Atari7800games/emulation.htm/ http://www.tripoint.org/kevtris/ http://users.erols.com/tiltonj/index.html If you diehard Bally guys haven't gotten tired of Atari-related info, check out Eckhard Stolberg's VCS workshop, or Mitch Orman's 7800 emulation site. Kevin Horton's "Blue Tech" web site may interest you, as will Jay Tilton's "Deathskull Labs" page. http://www.mameworld.net/pc2jamma/ This last site is off-topic even for Atari stuff... but if you can't stand to be away from the smell of soldering fumes very long, you'll definitely want to bookmark it. It explains how to install an IBM computer and/or modern game consoles up inside an arcade cabinet. I love their user interface, to switch between games. A great site! And if all that doesn't keep you guys busy awhile, seek medicine. ;-) Ward Shrake From solder_guy@m... Sun Apr 29 08:39:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 29 Apr 2001 15:39:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 89356 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 15:38:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2001 15:38:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail18.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.49) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 15:38:54 -0000 Received: œby mail18.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA14490; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 08:38:54 -0700 Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 08:38:54 -0700 Message-Id: <200104291538.IAA14490@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.38.57] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Bally Astrocade power repair writeup From: "solder_guy Last Name" >From William Culver: Bally Astrocade Repair Procedures #1 - Astrocade unit displays screen for 1 second then turns black or does not power up at all. Typically whenever a Astrocade does not power up, more than likely there is a problem in the power circuit on the Motherboard (Refer to the Bally Repair Manual at www.ballyalley.com). One of the first repairs I will discuss that I have done to many Astrocades concerns the capacitors that buffer the RAM (U24 thru U31 - MK4096N-15RAM) in the Astrocade. If any of the capacitors (C65 thru C106 - .1MFD 50V) short, then damage to the Q1 (TIP31) Transistor and the VR3 (UA78GUIC-5V) will occur. Also note that if you use the astrocade on a carpet, it is typically the Q1 transistor that shorts out as well (I have modified astrocades to have a small CPU fan installed to help cooling). Typically when the Q1 transistor shorts out, you will find R2 (240ohm 1/2 watt) resistor burnt on the motherboard. By using the wiring diagrams, trace the voltage through the circuit until you find the offending component. Check each capacitor for a short (C65 thru C106). When I approach a problem like this, I unsolder each Capacitor first, then replace the Q1, R2 and VR3 and power the unit up. Typically if a capacitor is shorted and it is removed, the astrocade will power up (but do not leave it on long, just do this for a check). Connect each Capacitor one at a time by using a small jumper wire until the astrocade does not power up, this will be the offending capacitor to replace (do not leave the astrocade on very long when doing this!, just breifly turn it on with you multimeter on the +5v rail, If your multimeter does not indicate +5v when you hit the power switch, turn off the astrocade immediatly). NTE part numbers for components mentioned. (www.nteinc.com) VR3 - NTE 953 Q1 - NTE 196 William J. Culver ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Thu May 03 13:41:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 3 May 2001 20:41:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 48201 invoked from network); 3 May 2001 20:41:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 May 2001 20:41:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.118) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 May 2001 20:41:17 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 3 May 2001 13:41:17 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Astrocade Blueprint Proposal Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 13:42:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 May 2001 20:41:17.0748 (UTC) FILETIME=[6735B740:01C0D411] From: "Bally Alley" Astrocade Blueprint Proposal By Adam Trionfo This message is in reference to my April 23, 2001 posting called, "Astrocade Add-under blueprints and others." If you recall, I have obtained a number of fragile blueprints. The blueprints available are: -- Video Keyboard Base -- Astrovision Add-Under -- Bally Monitor + Video Chroma board schematics (I need to figure out how to send this to James) -- Astro-Vision Add Under Keyboard Bezel -- Astro-vision Add Under Read-Shield -- Astrovision Add Under Cover -- Astro-vision Add-Under Rear Shield Insulator -- Astrovision Add Under Keyboard Base -- Astrovision Add-under Base -- Astro-vision Add-Under Front Shield Insulator -- Astro-vision Add-Under Front Shield I can't these in because they are MUCH too big (with some of the largest being almost fifteen square feet). I called several "blueprint places" today to see what copying them will cost. It costs about the same to have them saved to TIFF as to have them copied onto bond paper. I am told that the level of detail is good as long as the original blueprint is readable. The actual cost for a copy to bond paper is ABOUT one dollar a square foot (not all places charge by the square foot). The price to have them saved as TIFF files is about $20 a blueprint. A quick estimate here means that to have each blueprint copied onto bond paper, plus one TIFF file made of each of the twelve blueprints would be about $360. This is an "over-estimate." I am figuring each blueprint is about fifteen square feet (none are quite that big), and I am also figuring that each "TIFF" is will cost twenty dollars. I might be over-estimating by as much as $60 or even $80. Regardless, the final result of $360 is not pocket change. I am not surprised to see these price quotes. By the way, I would have to bring these blueprints to two different places. Even though both places offer the same services, they each have wildly different prices for each service. I can't afford to get this copying done alone. My Proposal: I propose that several of us Astrocade users gather our funds together and make this happen. If we decide to just get the TIFF copies done now (a very logical choice), then that would cost about $180 (before taxes), probably less. What would you get in exchange for this? I need to make it clear that you would NOT get a blueprint hardcopy (only a file image is being created), but the blueprints would be safe from further damage and decay. And if you send a few zip disks, then each person who pays will get a copy of the image files. I can't possibly post images of this large size to the Bally Alley web site (but since the images will be black and white, SOME form of small JPG or GIF will be uploaded-- I hope). I would be willing to split the costs, evenly, with at LEAST two other people. I have no exact figure ($180 is my "over-estimate, remember), but it would boil down to this: 3 people - $60 each 4 people - $45 each Adding more contributors after four people gives diminishing returns, $36, $30, etc (though, everything helps). Let me know soon if you are interested in this proposal. I need to still find who owns the rights to Astrocade hardware, but the tentative goal is to make these blueprint image files available on the future Astrocade CD. This is the best strategy that I can come up with, but I am open to further suggestions. Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Thu May 10 11:09:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 10 May 2001 18:09:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 16032 invoked from network); 10 May 2001 18:08:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 May 2001 18:08:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.98) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 May 2001 18:08:47 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 10 May 2001 11:08:47 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Two Astrocade carts now PD! Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 11:10:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 May 2001 18:08:47.0595 (UTC) FILETIME=[422F6BB0:01C0D97C] From: "Bally Alley" Two Astrocade Cartridges Released to Public Domain By Adam Trionfo Many of the classic systems have ROM images on the Internet; the Astrocade is no exception. Most ROM sites have disclaimers, such as (paraphrasing here) "Erase after 24 hours," "Don't download this if you don't own the original cartridge," or, "As long as you don't get new carts, it's okay." Many people refer to these ROM images as a "sketchy 'gray'" area. Regardless of these "it's okay" claims about ROMs, the future Astrocade CD-ROM will only include ROM images that are freely distributable, public domain, or images that I have permission to include on the CD-ROM. It will not be otherwise. In this direction, I have been tracking down and making contact with people that can help me in this endeavor. The labor has finally proved fruitful. I contacted Brett Bilbrey, who wrote two third party games called "ICBM Attack" and "Treasure Cove" (as well as being involved in other ways with the Astrocade). I exchanged a few emails with Brett, and asked where the rights to the cartridges stand. These exchanges with Brett were NOT conducted in an interview-type manner, but I present them this way (it makes reading them easier). The email has also been abbreviated to include only discussion concerning the two cartridges. ADAM - You programmed the cartridges "ICBM Attack" and "Treasure Cove." How much time/money did you invest in these projects? Do you have commented source for these? How many were sold? BRETT - I had some friends that I worked with to make the games. Mike Toth and Marion Nelepa. (Marion 'may' still have an [ICBM] controller, and 'may' still have the TRS-80 development system we used to write cartridges with...) ICBM ATTACK was an experiment to see if I 'could' create a cartridge. A test if you will. I did it in a few months during my free time in college so it did not take much money. Treasure Cove took a bit more work... I remember not leaving Marion's house for days at a time... :-) Marion programmed the sounds for the games. Mike was the manager and took care of business issues. The bulk of the cost was having the cartridge cases and the PC boards made and getting EEPROMs. I 'think' I have a paper source to the games somewhere packed away. But I'm not sure where, or if I even still have it... Marion 'may' have some source code somewhere if he still has the TRS-80... As to how many were sold? Just a few. Not many of ICBM ATTACK (because we made each handle by hand... sigh) and a few hundred (?) of the Treasure Cove. Mike and Marion were more interested in selling them and would know better, I just wanted to write games... :-) ADAM - Where do the rights stand with your two cartridges? Do you own the rights to them? Would you be willing to donate them into the public domain or make them freely distribuable (for emulator use or to be burned onto EPPROM for use on an actual Astrocade.)? BRETT - Rights? Hmmm... I suppose they still exist with Spectre Systems, the company that my friends and I formed. In that sense, we still own them. I would be willing to donate them, but I will have to ask Mike and Marion if they have any objections... [in the next email Brett adds] Sure... Mike and Marion did not have a problem with letting the cartridges go into the public domain. Have Fun. In summary, "ICBM Attack" and "Treasure Cove" are now public domain. This is exciting news. I will continue making contact with people that were involved with the Astrocade. Over time I hope that more cartridges will be released into the public domain for archival purposes, and (of course) for those using the Astrocade today. I especially want to thank Brett, Marion and Mike (Spectre Systems) for releasing these two cartridges into the public domain. Yes, we'll "have fun." -- May 10, 2001 From solder_guy@m... Thu May 10 19:05:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 11 May 2001 02:05:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 85694 invoked from network); 11 May 2001 02:04:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 May 2001 02:04:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail12.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.43) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 May 2001 02:04:50 -0000 Received: œby mail12.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA21448; Thu, 10 May 2001 19:04:50 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 19:04:50 -0700 Message-Id: <200105110204.TAA21448@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.43.37] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Two Astrocade carts now PD! From: "solder_guy Last Name" Adam: Would you ask Brett about the special controller required to make ICBM attack work properly. Description .. wiring setup .. etc. Whatever he remembers ..... Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Sun May 13 22:13:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 14 May 2001 05:13:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 90409 invoked from network); 14 May 2001 05:13:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 May 2001 05:13:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.16) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 May 2001 05:13:29 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 13 May 2001 22:13:29 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Six more ARCADIAN newsletters uploaded to Bally Alley + more Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 22:15:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 May 2001 05:13:29.0818 (UTC) FILETIME=[9D14F3A0:01C0DC34] From: "Bally Alley" May 13, 2001 Six issues of the ARCADIAN, and three cartridge manuals, two docs and schematics have been added to Bally Alley. http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/Whats_New.html A complete list follows: ARCADIAN, Vol. 6, Issue 7 - 8 Pages ARCADIAN, Vol. 6, Issue 8 - 10 Pages ARCADIAN, Vol. 6, Issue 9 - 10 Pages ARCADIAN, Vol. 6, Issue 10 - 10 Pages ARCADIAN, Vol. 6, Issue 11/12 - 30 Pages Biorhythm manual (text) Conan The Barbarian (text) - unofficial Soccer/Shoot Out (text) - unofficial Astrocade Product Description R&L 64K RAM board Blue RAM schematics There is always more to come, so keep an eye out for new postings. Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Mon May 14 18:20:04 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31655 invoked from network); 15 May 2001 01:19:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 May 2001 01:19:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hi.egroups.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 May 2001 01:19:30 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.11] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2001 01:19:29 -0000 Date: 15 May 2001 01:19:29 -0000 Message-ID: <989889569.535.78826.n4@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Notify: From: To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley group. File : /Astrocade_MESS_keyboard-1.1.txt Uploaded by : ballyalley@h... Description : Astrocade MESS Emulation Keyboard Mapping FAQ You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/Astrocade_MESS_keyboard-1.1.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ballyalley@h... From ballyalley@h... Mon May 14 18:23:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 15 May 2001 01:23:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 74029 invoked from network); 15 May 2001 01:22:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 May 2001 01:22:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.205) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 May 2001 01:22:55 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 May 2001 18:22:54 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Finished Astrocade MESS Emulation Keyboard Mapping FAQ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 18:24:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 May 2001 01:22:54.0918 (UTC) FILETIME=[91407E60:01C0DCDD] From: "Bally Alley" May 14, 2001 I have have been using the latest version of the MESS Astrocade emulator. There are no docs, so I have put together one for use with the keyboard-mapping. It is called, "Astrocade MESS Emulation Keyboard Mapping FAQ" and I placed in the the file area of the Astrocade Message board. Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Mon May 14 18:25:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 15 May 2001 01:25:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 12591 invoked from network); 15 May 2001 01:24:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 May 2001 01:24:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.16) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 May 2001 01:24:58 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 May 2001 18:24:58 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: New version of the MESS Astrocade emulator works well Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 18:26:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 May 2001 01:24:58.0310 (UTC) FILETIME=[DACC9E60:01C0DCDD] From: "Bally Alley" May 14, 2001 I have been using the newest beta of the MESS emulator (0.37b13), and as Frank Palazzolo promised, the screen ratio is fixed. It looks nice now. Try it. Adam Trionfo From mcgrail0007@n... Mon May 14 19:13:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mcgrail0007@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 15 May 2001 02:13:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 88527 invoked from network); 15 May 2001 02:12:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 May 2001 02:12:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 May 2001 02:12:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mcgrail0007@n... Received: from [10.1.10.117] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2001 02:12:42 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 02:12:38 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Sources of info for general info on multicarts Message-ID: <9dq3am+pdgs@e...> In-Reply-To: <9cesjk+7igg@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1771 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 32.102.128.86 From: mcgrail0007@n... Ward, I wanted to know how the multicart is coming along. Do you plan on selling these? The reason I ask is because I received an email today from Sean Kelly saying that he is considering making a multicart for the Astrocade. For those who don't know who Sean is, he has made multicarts with the complete library of Colecovision, Vectrex, and Atari 5200 (less Bounty Bob Strikes Back) games. His multicarts are always professionally made and if he made a multicart for the Astrocade I am sure that every user of the Astrocade would want to pick one up. His Colecovision multicart allows for on screen selection of the games (so you don't have to mess with dip switches), and his new 5200 multicart will also allow for on screen selection. I also wanted to let you know that I spoke to Michael White last weekend and he said that he has made multicarts in the past with 8 and 16 games on them for the Astrocade. He said that he still can make games for the Astrocade, but has a very limited supply of Music Maker and once those are gone they are gone forever. I have placed an order with him and he is suppose to send me flyers with game prices to send to other Astrocade users. Once I get the flyers I will be happy to send them out to other Astrocade users. Please email me at mcgrail0007@n... with your name and address if you want one of these flyers. If I get too many request I might send the information in an email. He is working 10 hours a day so right now he says that his time is very limited to make Astrocade games. He is hoping to have my order done by the end of this month meaning that I won't be able to get the flyers out to Astrocade users until early to mid June at the earliest. Sean McGrail From solder_guy@m... Tue May 15 01:34:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 15 May 2001 08:34:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 52256 invoked from network); 15 May 2001 08:34:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 May 2001 08:34:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail17.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.48) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 May 2001 08:34:10 -0000 Received: œby mail17.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA31051; Tue, 15 May 2001 01:34:10 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 01:34:10 -0700 Message-Id: <200105150834.BAA31051@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.39.227] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] New version of the MESS Astrocade emulator works well From: "solder_guy Last Name" Hi .. Does anyone know of a replacement for the AC adapter for teh Bally/ Astrocade? Someone (on RGVC) has requested info about replacement. This is an issue as the console gets older ... Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ward.shrake@w... Tue May 15 11:30:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 15 May 2001 18:30:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 54952 invoked from network); 15 May 2001 18:30:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 May 2001 18:30:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 May 2001 18:30:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.106] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2001 18:30:07 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 18:30:04 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Sources of info for general info on multicarts Message-ID: <9drsjc+q16f@e...> In-Reply-To: <9dq3am+pdgs@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5656 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.73.56.33 From: "Ward Shrake" In regards to how long it is going to take, for me to make multicarts... "I honestly don't know". And I've learned over the years not to bow to pressure on that type of question, and try to give a specific date. When it is done, it will be done. Not before. It all depends on things I can't predict, like how much free time I get to play with it. (I work in the movie industry now, and never know when I'll have work or a day off.) And if I'm in the mood, too; please remember that this is just a hobby! The Astrocade is slowly arising from its slumber of many years. Give it time to wake up again. One thing to remember is that it is silly to be pushing hard for a "complete collection" multicart, when we don't even have all the ROMs yet? "Patience, Luke" is good advice regarding projects like this. The ROM archiving effort isn't even completed yet, although good progress has definitely been made. If people want to speed up the multicart, start helping locate the ROMs we need to archive, and be willing to loan those carts out to people who can archive them!? How far along am I? The Emerson 2001 multicart is already prototyped, tested inhouse, and has been tested by others. It works fine. I am going to add some refinements to that one, since it is already 90% built anyway. When that's done, I'll be that much ahead on the Bally. (It is only an 8-in-1 now, but with a few changes, can hold 512k.) As to the Bally multicart itself, I've already drawn out a double- sided circuit board diagram of a cart with a 512k memory space, and a row of 8 dipswitches. I may clean the drawing up and make a prototype soon, just because? My overall plan is to have something in my hands, working, when I go to the next "SC3" gaming meet, sometime in June. Am I going to sell these things? I don't know. Maybe, or maybe not. That's tricky. A trade would probably go over better in the long run. Don't box yourself into that one path (cash sales) as the only path. I really do respect the efforts of others, and don't want to be mean or rude to them. By this I mean either the original authors, or the efforts of people like Adam Trionfo. He is working hard towards being legally allowed to distribute things like individual ROM images. He has been successful, and I don't want to jeopardize his efforts! I'll just take the time now to thank him, and also to congratulate him, publicly. I've done this with some VIC-20 carts, and it is not easy. But it has a snowball effect; once a few authors have given their permission, it gets easier to get the next person to also give his or her permission, when you locate them and start pleading. Let me play Devil's Advocate for a moment: What would you actually pay for a professional looking "complete collection" type multicart? One that uses dip switches, and that has an artistic custom label? And how many of you would actually come up with cash, right away, and not just wish or talk about it? How many of you even own a working Bally Astrocade, because that alone will limit the market for sales? (I'm just curious, as I'm doing this for fun, and not for profit. But anyone that considers making and selling these has to know that info.) In regards to questions regarding my attitude towards other people making multicarts... "The more the merrier. More power to everyone." Sean Kelly is definitely a cool guy. I've never met him in person, but we've spoken by e-mail on a number of occasions over the years. I even bought one of his Vectrex multicarts, some months ago. He has willingly shared info and such with me, on more than one occasion. I have no problems with Sean, and I seriously doubt he has any with me. I've also spoken to Michael White on the phone a few weeks ago, and found him to be a friendly guy as well. He has raw, original parts from the Bally's era, that he modifies into 8 or 16-in-1 multicarts, as mentioned. (Just replaces the 2364 chips with a 27256 or 27512.) I compared ROM lists with him; he has quite a few that I don't have, and I had one he didn't. I've already mailed out the one he needed, in burnt ROM format -- since he doesn't have a modern computer or an Internet connection, and relies on snail mail. I will get ahold of the others he has as time goes on, by borrowing Adam's copies, most likely. (He wants the copies for his personal collection, anyway.) In short, I doubt that any of us see the others as a competitor? I certainly don't, and I've seen no evidence that Sean or Michael does. Also, for what it is worth, I sent Joe Santulli my original Bally ROM dumping adapter, and also my original Emerson Arcadia ROM dumping adapter cable. It was originally going to be a long-term loan, but I have since decided to just let him keep both, and I made myself new ones. This ups the chances of new ROMs being dumped. (But both of the collections are getting to the point of being mostly archived, now.) Sean's multicarts have one flaw that I'm working on getting around; that is, they take up far too much memory space, because he hasn't come up with a way to work out the addressing schemes when there are more than one size of cart image mixed into the storage space. Right now, he just "brute force's" it by making all cart images the same size as the largest ones, so that each 4k game takes up 16k of space, if the two sizes are mixed together. Obviously, that's wasteful. (He readily admits this is the case; I'm not talking trash about him.) Enough out of me... time to go play with my soldering iron. :-) Ward Shrake http://classicgaming/vic20/ http://classicgaming/arcadia/ From ward.shrake@w... Wed May 16 01:55:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 16 May 2001 08:55:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 44704 invoked from network); 16 May 2001 08:55:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 May 2001 08:55:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 May 2001 08:55:30 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.99] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2001 08:55:29 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 08:55:29 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: New file uploaded to ballyalley Message-ID: <9dtfa1+isr4@e...> In-Reply-To: <9c2nru+9gm9@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1132 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.73.51.100 From: "Ward Shrake" Just letting everyone know that I did a slight update on that tech document I posted, some time ago. It is now more printer-friendly, or something? I'm slowly switching it over from ASCII text to HTML, etc. The single biggest change is that the cartridge port pinout now looks just like the real thing; it is now much easier to visualize it. In time, I may add more to it, making it a general techie / project text. One thing I'll add to my comments from this morning... trust me when I say that lots of cool stuff is being talked about, sort of behind the curtains as it were. Just because there aren't announcements, does not mean there is no activity going on. In many cases, it is simpler and much more direct for those involved to just finish up the things they are working on, than to give blow-by-blow updates on it. I will just say that I myself am surprised at the amount and depth of activity that is going on, or seems to be in the planning stages now! (Adam's recent success in getting two carts to be "public domain" is a wonderful thing in itself, I think? My projects pale in comparison!) Ward Shrake From ward.shrake@w... Thu May 17 22:28:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 18 May 2001 05:28:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 81553 invoked from network); 18 May 2001 05:28:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 May 2001 05:28:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mk.egroups.com) (10.1.1.30) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 May 2001 05:28:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.105] by mk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2001 05:28:04 -0000 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 05:28:03 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Check file section -- some techie stuff just added Message-ID: <9e2bt3+gk4c@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1045 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.73.49.245 From: "Ward Shrake" Howdy, all. I just uploaded three technical texts. One was here before; I'd deleted the text version of the cartridge port stuff when I began an HTML version, instead. Adam talked me into leaving the old one, as it is more easily read by non-web-browsing folks. Anyway, that one's back again now. The second file is something I originally wrote back in 1994, which I basically trashed completely, and re-wrote. It is about how to fix all the pesky little pins on IC chips, which tend to bend or break over time, with a little help from those of us with soldering irons. The third file was also an older one, which I've had on my hard drive for years. Raymond Carlsen originally wrote it, and posted it to one of the Usenet newsgroups... "comp.sys.cbm" most likely. Although it seems to be about the Commodore line of computers, look deeper. The Astrocade has its share of heat-related ills, and Ray's text gives lots of good, transportable tips on keeping old computer equipment healthy and happy, over the long run. Ward Shrake From ballyalley@h... Fri May 18 06:38:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 18 May 2001 13:38:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 15447 invoked from network); 18 May 2001 13:38:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 May 2001 13:38:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.211) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 May 2001 13:38:50 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 May 2001 23:31:39 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: On Astrocade Projects: Are We Encouraging or Pestering? Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 23:33:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 May 2001 06:31:39.0506 (UTC) FILETIME=[B2C44D20:01C0DD08] From: "Bally Alley" On Astrocade Projects: Are We Encouraging or Pestering? By Adam Trionfo (May 14, 2001) - Reading past and current posting to this message board reveals progress on Astrocade projects, particularly multicarts, the Astrocade CD-ROM, and the adding of material to Bally Alley. Through the postings, we get an excellent impression of where a project is headed. For example, Ward (working on multicarts) has requested us NOT to ask if he will be selling his multicart. He is not done with it, and is not yet sure what he will be doing with it when he is. He politely asked us to refrain from asking much about it (ie. if it is or is not for sale) because he just doesn't know. We should not worry, for Ward is keeping us updated on his progress, and there is no sudden need to have anything finished NOW-- right away. Asking "is it done yet," or "can I buy one yet" is not going to contribute to his project completing any sooner. Game players may disagree that a game system is dead when there is no new development for it, but loss of interest happens quickly with a machine like the Astrocade that has been living in a sterile environment for so long; it has little interest to newcomers. There is no excitement or anticipation about the next new thing, no wonder about waiting for a new product. It is with development that people become interested in these game consoles. We all have good reason to look forward to an Astrocade multicart, for it undoubtedly will allow those with limited collections to fill in the cartridge gaps. But there is more to it than that. Attention from a multicart or Astrocade CD-ROM will draw people who are interested in using the machine. This interest to play the games will be followed with some people having a deeper interest; they will want to know the hardware, to understand what makes the Astrocade tick. With the recent available documentation that has been appearing on Bally Alley and communication with this message board (and postal mail, email and phone calls), interest in both software and hardware has been multiplying. This increasing fascination with the Astrocade will continue to expand. Individuals with interest in the Astrocade are sharing ideas. Gossip of the multicart is sure to attract more people. Interest in anything Astrocade related here is EXCELLENT. That is what this message board is for, after all. Let us be careful though. We can not allow this excitement to sidetrack us, or even derail projects. We all have an interest in the Astrocade (more specifically, with most of us, the games); we need to do what we can to make sure that our interest is fed well in the LONG run. None of us have any doubt that an Astrocade multicart will appear from someone at some time; we all want that to happen-- and it will. I look forward to it, but now is not the time to rush. A hasty attitude and short-term sight will deaden long-term goals. Pressuring either Ward Shrake or Sean Kelly (or anyone else for that matter) is not the way to establish quality. Let us encourage people creating Astrocade hardware or software projects, not pester them; then the final product will be the result of creation, and not frustration. Good luck to Ward and Sean (and the rest of you; you know who you are). From ballyalley@h... Sat May 26 18:00:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 27 May 2001 01:00:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 36364 invoked from network); 27 May 2001 01:00:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 May 2001 01:00:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.15) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 May 2001 01:00:07 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 26 May 2001 18:00:06 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: 300-baud cassette interface needed for Astrocade CD Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 18:02:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 May 2001 01:00:06.0749 (UTC) FILETIME=[5EB778D0:01C0E648] From: "Bally Alley" 300-baud Interface needed for Bally Alley ----------------------------------------- To use the Astrocade 300-baud tapes, the 300-baud interface is needed. The interface is not needed yet for the Astrocade CD, but it will be needed in the future. A working unit needs to be handy when the time comes to use it. I have been on the lookout for this interface for a long time, but I can't seem to find one. Since the 2000-baud version included on the AstroBASIC cartridge is much faster than the 300-baud version, in most collections this 300-baud interface is little more than an Astrocade prop. Why not allow it to be given an important second life and future use? Without this interface these older Astrocade programs will never even have an opportunity to make their way to Bally Alley or the Audio/CD-ROM compilation. I can't promise that any commercial Astrocade tapes will be on the CD or the website, but without the ability to get them there in the first place, then it will be completely impossible. If anyone can help me get my hands around one of these Bally 300-baud interfaces, please let me know. If there is someone here that is willing to part with one, then please contact me. I'm sure we can make an arrangement that will be mutually beneficial. Thanks, Adam Trionfo From cybpunks@m... Wed May 30 08:32:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 30 May 2001 15:32:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 32673 invoked from network); 30 May 2001 15:32:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 May 2001 15:32:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls01.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.20) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 May 2001 15:32:09 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4UFW7k12377 for ; Wed, 30 May 2001 08:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20010530083322.02bad1a8@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 08:35:50 -0700 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: 300 baud interface In-Reply-To: <990963271.306.82391.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders At 11:34 AM 5/27/2001 +0000, you wrote: >300-baud Interface needed for Bally Alley I'm sure some collectors may have one. They are pretty rare I'm sure. How valuable I don't know, probably not much because of the lack of collectibility (comparitively speaking) in the Astrocade market, but I'm sure they are out there. Keep an eye out on Ebay. From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Wed May 30 15:25:12 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14535 invoked from network); 30 May 2001 22:25:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 30 May 2001 22:25:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 May 2001 22:25:09 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.11] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2001 22:25:06 -0000 Date: 30 May 2001 22:25:06 -0000 Message-ID: <991261506.1417.84785.n4@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Notify: From: To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley group. File : /300_Baud_Interface.jpg Uploaded by : ballyalley@h... Description : Bally Astrocade 300 baud cassette interface You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/300_Baud_Interface.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ballyalley@h... From ballyalley@h... Wed May 30 16:01:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 30 May 2001 23:01:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 34925 invoked from network); 30 May 2001 23:01:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 May 2001 23:01:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.207) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 May 2001 23:01:00 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 30 May 2001 16:00:59 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: 300 baud interface release in question? Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 16:03:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 May 2001 23:00:59.0954 (UTC) FILETIME=[648C1920:01C0E95C] From: "Bally Alley" May 30, 2001 I posted a message looking for a Bally 300 baud cassette interface and I have been asked if it really exists. I was quite surprised by this question. Was it released? It was. The original version of Bally BASIC did not come with a built-in interface. The cartridge cost about fifty dollars, and the interface (300 baud, not 2000 baud) cost another fifty dollars. Without it, there was no way to save or load a program. The interface plugs into a joystick port and the light pen port on the back of an Astrocade. There is a small B&W picture of the interface inside each Bally BASIC manual on page 130. Since most people don't have this manual, I have uploaded a picture of the interface into the file area of the message board. It is a color picture from a very recently ended Astrocade auction on ebay. It was just one of the many items that was part of an Astrocade package. I know these interfaces are out there, and not too uncommon either. They can't be. A BASIC user before 1981 on an Astrocade had to own this interface, otherwise there was little use in the BASIC cartirdge at all. Adam Trionfo From guygg@3... Wed May 30 18:15:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: guygg@3... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 31 May 2001 01:15:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 12157 invoked from network); 31 May 2001 01:15:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 May 2001 01:15:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO maynard.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.243) by mta3 with SMTP; 31 May 2001 01:15:07 -0000 Received: from guy (user-33qtcl1.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.178.161]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA11399 for ; Wed, 30 May 2001 21:15:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3cc201c0e978$95d167d0$0201a8c0@3...> To: References: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] 300 baud interface release in question? Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 20:22:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_3CBF_01C0E946.4A77ED90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2465.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2465.0000 From: "Guy G. Gordon" ------=_NextPart_000_3CBF_01C0E946.4A77ED90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've got one of the 300 baud interfaces, that yes, plugs into the joystick = port. I'd like to hang on to the unit long term, but if it is needed out t= here to do conversions of stuff, it'd be possible to loan it for doing conv= ersions if no other units out there end up obtainable. I think the unit st= ill works right, but need to test it to make sure. Guy Gordon guygg@3... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bally Alley=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 5:03 PM Subject: [ballyalley] 300 baud interface release in question? May 30, 2001 I posted a message looking for a Bally 300 baud cassette interface and I have been asked if it really exists. I was quite surprised by this question. Was it released? It was. The original version of Bally BASIC did not come with a built-in interfac= e. The cartridge cost about fifty dollars, and the interface (300 baud, not 2000 baud) cost another fifty dollars. Without it, there was no way to s= ave or load a program. The interface plugs into a joystick port and the ligh= t pen port on the back of an Astrocade. There is a small B&W picture of the interface inside each Bally BASIC man= ual on page 130. Since most people don't have this manual, I have uploaded a picture of the interface into the file area of the message board. It is = a color picture from a very recently ended Astrocade auction on ebay. It w= as just one of the many items that was part of an Astrocade package. I know these interfaces are out there, and not too uncommon either. They can't be. A BASIC user before 1981 on an Astrocade had to own this interface, otherwise there was little use in the BASIC cartirdge at all. Adam Trionfo Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_3CBF_01C0E946.4A77ED90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've got one of the 300 baud interfaces, t= hat yes,=20 plugs into the joystick port.  I'd like to hang on to the unit long te= rm,=20 but if it is needed out there to do conversions of stuff, it'd be possible = to=20 loan it for doing conversions if no other units out there end=20 up obtainable.  I think the unit still works right, but = ;need=20 to test it to make sure.
 
Guy Gordon
guygg@3...
 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 = Bally=20 Alley
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 5:03= =20 PM
Subject: [ballyalley] 300 baud int= erface=20 release in question?

May 30, 2001

I posted a message looking for a B= ally=20 300 baud cassette interface and I
have been asked if it really=20 exists.  I was quite surprised by this
question.

Was it=20 released?  It was.

The original version of Bally BASIC did no= t=20 come with a built-in interface.
The cartridge cost about fifty dollars= , and=20 the interface (300 baud, not
2000 baud) cost another fifty dollars.&nb= sp;=20 Without it, there was no way to save
or load a program.  The inte= rface=20 plugs into a joystick port and the light
pen port on the back of an=20 Astrocade.

There is a small B&W picture of the interface insid= e=20 each Bally BASIC manual
on page 130.  Since most people don't hav= e=20 this manual, I have uploaded a
picture of the interface into the file = area=20 of the message board.  It is a
color picture from a very recently= =20 ended Astrocade auction on ebay.  It was
just one of the many ite= ms=20 that was part of an Astrocade package.

I know these interfaces are= out=20 there, and not too uncommon either.  They
can't be.  A BASIC= user=20 before 1981 on an  Astrocade had to own this
interface, otherwise= =20 there was little use in the BASIC cartirdge at all.

Adam=20 Trionfo


Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_3CBF_01C0E946.4A77ED90-- From solder_guy@m... Tue Jun 05 07:29:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 14:29:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 48019 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 14:29:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 14:29:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail16.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.47) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 14:29:12 -0000 Received: œby mail16.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA13787; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 07:29:10 -0700 Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 07:29:10 -0700 Message-Id: <200106051429.HAA13787@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.35.141] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ballyalley] Re: New file uploaded to ballyalley From: "solder_guy Last Name" Ward: I misplaced your address. What is it again? Rob Mitchell ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Fri Jun 08 11:27:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 8 Jun 2001 18:27:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 40414 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 18:27:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2001 18:27:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.191) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 18:27:33 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:27:33 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Discussion group description errors Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:30:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jun 2001 18:27:33.0204 (UTC) FILETIME=[AF147940:01C0F048] From: "Bally Alley" June 8, 2001 Yesterday I was making slight changes to the Bally Alley discussion group description when an error was returned. I have not been able to make it right since. So then, the description is incomplete. The error message informs me that I am using profanity in my description (I am not). This has happened before, and I never was able to get feedback from Yahoo. I just wrote and rewrote the description last time until it was acceptable. I never actually knew what the problem was. Nor can I find any mention of this in help (for instance a list of words deemed inappropriate). I spent about an hour and a half yesterday trying to get the description to be acceptable. It seems that certain combinations of words (CD, programs, images, I think) trip up the checker. I am unwilling to spend any more time on this until I get an answer response from Yahoo (or anyone). I'll be glad to avoid the words or combination of words that are "profane," I just need to know what they are. Anyone had this problem before? Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Fri Jun 08 11:51:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 8 Jun 2001 18:51:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 41446 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 18:51:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2001 18:51:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.199) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 18:51:51 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:51:51 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: First 135 messages now compiled as text document Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:54:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jun 2001 18:51:51.0108 (UTC) FILETIME=[140EF840:01C0F04C] From: "Bally Alley" June 8, 2001 I have never found reading past postings to web-based discussion groups easy. It takes quite a bit of time and effort to read through previous postings (those using a slower modem may avoid the task altogether). In order to help facilitate new members read these older (but very valid) messages I spent a considerable amount of time yesterday compiling Astrocade Message Postings (1-135) into an ASCII formatted document-- it is about ninety pages long. I have zipped this text document into a 73K file called Astrocade_Messages_1-135.zip and posted it in the file section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ I encourage any of you that have not read all of the past posting to do so; they make for good reading. I have also instituted a new feature for members that join. When a member subscribes to the group now, Astrocade_Messages_1-135.zip will automatically be emailed as an attachment. The principle reasons that I have done this are to help reduce redundant or similar postings (which has not really begun to happen), but more so, to make it clear that an Astrocade community is evolving, and that all postings here help give form and shape to it. Adam Trionfo From tfrevor@y... Fri Jun 08 13:50:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: tfrevor@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 8 Jun 2001 20:50:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 58131 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 20:50:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 Jun 2001 20:50:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web11702.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.172.68) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 20:50:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20010608205015.37465.qmail@w...> Received: from [47.230.0.42] by web11702.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 08 Jun 2001 13:50:15 PDT Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:50:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [ballyalley] First 135 messages now compiled as text document To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Thomas Revor > I have also instituted a new feature for members > that join. When a member > subscribes to the group now, > Astrocade_Messages_1-135.zip will automatically > be emailed as an attachment. > > The principle reasons that I have done this are to > help reduce redundant or > similar postings (which has not really begun to > happen), but more so, to > make it clear that an Astrocade community is > evolving, and that all postings > here help give form and shape to it. Rather than this, how about someone compile it into some form of an FAQ? I know I'd balk at downloading over 135 messages in one fell swoop, muchless having to read through them. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ballyalley@h... Fri Jun 08 15:39:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 8 Jun 2001 22:39:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 2641 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 22:39:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2001 22:39:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.46) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 22:39:53 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:39:53 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: References: <20010608205015.37465.qmail@w...> Subject: Astrocade message FAQ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:42:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jun 2001 22:39:53.0040 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF201D00:01C0F06B] From: "Bally Alley" On June 8, 2001, Thomas Revor wrote: > Rather than this [very long ninety page text document], how about someone compile it into some form of an FAQ? I know I'd balk at downloading over 135 messages in one fell swoop, muchless having to read through them. > Creating a "FAQ" from all of this data is an eventual back-burner goal. Before that can be attempted though, the ASCII list needed to be created, and now that is done. It took about five hours to create the document (if you take a look at it, there is more to it then just a raw listing of the messages. It might even be considered a preliminary FAQ already). Downloading all the messages in "one fell swoop" is not difficult with a small 75K file (it is not uncommon for a jpg on a web page to be of this size). I would not force an attachment upon a new member that would make them angry because it ties up their phone for an hour. There are many messages, and I don't blame anyone for not wanting to read through them all. But I do want the choice to be available in an easy format to use for those that want to read them. It takes about as long to downloading this zipped ASCII file as it takes to view just fifteen messages using the web site. Some of the messages WILL be incorporated into the Astrocade FAQ, but many more do not fit into what I think of as Frequently Asked Questions. Some of the postings I have personally written may be expanded and find their way into articles on Bally Alley. Really though, how am I to choose what is important and what is not? Except for a very few messages, almost every message adds to the knowledge on the Astrocade. If you take a close look, few common questions have been asked. The usual brags are noticeably absent (and this wouldn't be the place for them), as are very simple questions like, "What's an Astrocade," and better yet, there has been no bickering between members. The text compilation of messages can use some grammar and spelling corrections, but the content is significant and strong in many areas and doesn't need heavy editing. We have to remember that groups like this are informal gatherings of like-minded people exchanging information freely and quite often quickly. Members have not written these postings with the thought of them being included in a FAQ, yet it may happen anyway in our efforts to sort and categorize our surroundings. Let's not anticipate cropping the information here too much. A slightly shorter and tighter compilation of messages is valid, but certainly there is no deeply expurgated version called for. It is preferable to focus efforts on establishing and creating rather than changing and rearranging, with good cause too: it doesn't needed to be done now. Of course, if any members are just bubbling with excitement to take Thomas's good suggestion, then why not propose your ideas to the group. Thomas really has made a good point. His suggestion is quite logical; unfortunately I don't see the manpower available to initiated it yet. Adam Trionfo June 8, 2001 From a.plantema@x... Fri Jun 08 15:56:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.plantema@x... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 8 Jun 2001 22:56:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 84266 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 22:56:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2001 22:56:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.xs4all.nl) (194.109.127.131) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 22:56:22 -0000 Received: from powerstation (a194-109-237-23.adsl.xs4all.nl [194.109.237.23]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA06612 for ; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 00:56:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <062601c0f06e$32c95ce0$9600000a@p...> To: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Discussion group description errors Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 00:51:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3719.2500 From: "Alex Plantema" -----Original Message----- From: Bally Alley Date: vrijdag 8 juni 2001 20:38 >Yesterday I was making slight changes to the Bally Alley discussion group >description when an error was returned. I have not been able to make it >right since. > >So then, the description is incomplete. The error message informs me that I >am using profanity in my description (I am not). This has happened before, >and I never was able to get feedback from Yahoo. I just wrote and rewrote >the description last time until it was acceptable. I never actually knew >what the problem was. Nor can I find any mention of this in help (for >instance a list of words deemed inappropriate). I spent about an hour and >a half yesterday trying to get the description to be acceptable. It seems >that certain combinations of words (CD, programs, images, I think) trip up >the checker. I am unwilling to spend any more time on this until I get an >answer response from Yahoo (or anyone). I'll be glad to avoid the words or >combination of words that are "profane," I just need to know what they are. > >Anyone had this problem before? It was discussed in some listmanager groups. Alex. From ballyalley@h... Fri Jun 08 18:16:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 9 Jun 2001 01:16:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 18226 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 01:16:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2001 01:16:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.203) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 01:16:16 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:16:15 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: References: <062601c0f06e$32c95ce0$9600000a@p...> Subject: Discussion group description error fixed Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:19:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jun 2001 01:16:15.0889 (UTC) FILETIME=[C7BD4010:01C0F081] From: "Bally Alley" > It [the profanity problem] was discussed in some listmanager groups. Thank you, Alex. I was able to "fix" my profane use of language. For those of you that are interested, the obscene word was "document." What? I had to look at it VERY carefully to see that the third, fourth and firth letters even make a word, of sorts. I tacked on a paragraph in the group description that tells prospective members that they will get the 73K document (actually, I had to use the word file) when they subscribe. Adam From slapdash@e... Fri Jun 08 18:44:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 9 Jun 2001 01:44:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 65098 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 01:44:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2001 01:44:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.enteract.com) (207.229.143.4) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 01:44:01 -0000 Received: from [207.229.149.223] (207-229-149-223.d.enteract.com [207.229.149.223]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649346289 for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 20:44:00 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <062601c0f06e$32c95ce0$9600000a@p...> Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 20:41:17 -0500 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Discussion group description error fixed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Russ Perry Jr >I was able to "fix" my profane use of language. For those of you that are >interested, the obscene word was "document." What? I had to look at it >VERY carefully to see that the third, fourth and firth letters even make a >word, of sorts. Actually, it's probably more insidious than that... "Document" isn't allowed because it may be part of a script acting in the capacity of a virus. The problem is, they don't TELL people that they're doing this sort of thing. At least, I suspect that's what's going on. If you want to test it, put the word "count" in the description somewhere. I'll bet IT will be fine, even though closer to the c-word than "document" is... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Fri Jul 06 13:28:22 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 66284 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2001 20:28:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2001 20:28:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fh.egroups.com) (10.1.2.135) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jul 2001 20:28:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.110] by fh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2001 20:28:18 -0000 Date: 6 Jul 2001 20:28:17 -0000 Message-ID: <994451297.545.58174.f2@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Notify: From: To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley group. File : /arcadian_faq.txt Uploaded by : ballyalley@h... Description : Arcadian FAQ (volume/issue listings) You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/arcadian_faq.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ballyalley@h... From ballyalley@h... Fri Jul 06 13:33:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 6 Jul 2001 20:33:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 39801 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2001 20:33:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2001 20:33:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jul 2001 20:33:01 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.10.113] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2001 20:33:01 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:32:58 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New "Arcadian" FAQ Message-ID: <9i579q+j5l2@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 307 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.24.176.131 From: "Adam Trionfo" July 6, 2001 A FAQ with listings of all volumes and issues of the "Arcadian" newsletter is available in the file section of the Astrocade Message Board. I gathered this information together for ease of use in compiling the issues online and for creating a coil-bound book of volumes 5-7. Adam Trionfo From slapdash@e... Fri Jul 06 20:17:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 7 Jul 2001 03:17:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 16828 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2001 03:17:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2001 03:17:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-1.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jul 2001 03:17:50 -0000 Received: from [207.229.149.221] (207-229-148-157.d.enteract.com [207.229.148.157]) by smtp-1.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDD257FF8 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:17:48 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9i579q+j5l2@e...> References: <9i579q+j5l2@e...> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:14:39 -0500 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Oops... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Russ Perry Jr Sorry I still haven't sent in my donation... Can you accept PayPal? That might be quicker for me... BTW, I got Chris's new address from him, so I sent him the issues he's missed. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From fmillera@p... Sat Jul 07 11:08:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 7 Jul 2001 18:08:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 11962 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2001 18:08:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2001 18:08:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.241) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Jul 2001 18:08:14 -0000 Received: from default ([63.199.242.106]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GG400LLU7PNGH@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 07 Jul 2001 11:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 11:08:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Oops... In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20010707110719.00a38100@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1376258==_.ALT" References: <9i579q+j5l2@e...> <9i579q+j5l2@e...> From: Tony Miller --=====================_1376258==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:14 PM 7/6/01 -0500, you wrote: >Sorry I still haven't sent in my donation... Can you accept PayPal? >That might be quicker for me... Folks; Being a new member, I've not heard about donations. How much and what for? Cheers, Tony Miller >BTW, I got Chris's new address from him, so I sent him the issues >he's missed. >-- >//*================================================================++ >|| Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || >|| 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || >++================================================================*// > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_1376258==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 10:14 PM 7/6/01 -0500, you wrote:
Sorry I still haven't sent in my donation...  Can you accept PayPal?
That might be quicker for me...


Folks;

Being a new member, I've not heard about donations.  How much and what for?

Cheers,

Tony Miller


BTW, I got Chris's new address from him, so I sent him the issues
he's missed.
--
//*================================================================++
||  Russ Perry Jr   2175 S Tonne Dr #114   Arlington Hts IL 60005  ||
||  847-952-9729    slapdash@e...    VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR!  ||
++================================================================*//

Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
--=====================_1376258==_.ALT-- From ballyalley@h... Sat Jul 07 13:46:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 7 Jul 2001 20:46:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 99629 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2001 20:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2001 20:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.165) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jul 2001 20:46:36 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 13:46:36 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 07 Jul 2001 20:46:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: On donations, blueprints and Bally Alley Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 13:46:35 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jul 2001 20:46:36.0233 (UTC) FILETIME=[E9E46B90:01C10725] From: "Adam Trionfo" July 07, 2001 Russ is referring to message 117, "Astrocade Blueprint Proposal." He meant to send that message to me personally, but sent it to the group by accident. There is no sign anywhere that says "donations appreciated” because they are not expected. No group member is expected to give money. Here is an update I sent to Russ in reference to the "Astrocade Blueprint Proposal" (slightly edited): I did get four of the blueprints digitized already. I hunted some more for reasonable prices and found a place that quoted about $10 a sheet to digitize. But that quote was a mistake. The price is actually $5 a sheet. I felt so bad that I had to point that out as an error in my favor. It was NOT an error; that IS the price (5.95, I think). So I have had four done and cleaned them up, but I have not printed them out on large paper yet. The reason for this price is that I am not asking them to touch the file, plus I am giving them the media (zip disk). In addition, the files are far smaller than I was quoted on the phone, so I can easily put these blueprints on Bally Alley. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From slapdash@e... Sat Jul 07 15:03:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 7 Jul 2001 22:03:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 34298 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2001 22:03:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2001 22:03:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-1.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Jul 2001 22:03:14 -0000 Received: from [207.229.148.218] (207-229-148-218.d.enteract.com [207.229.148.218]) by smtp-1.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B05CA6429 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 17:03:11 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20010707110719.00a38100@p...> References: <9i579q+j5l2@e...> <9i579q+j5l2@e...> <4.2.2.20010707110719.00a38100@p...> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 17:00:02 -0500 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Oops... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Russ Perry Jr At 11:08 AM -0700 7/7/01, Tony Miller wrote: > [I wrote]: >> Sorry I still haven't sent in my donation... Can you accept PayPal? First off, that was meant as a personal message, but my subject ended up being all the more apropos... > Being a new member, I've not heard about donations. How much and what for? It was to help pay to get some Bally related blueprints scanned in. Adam realized how much it was going to cost and asked for some help. So me and another guy pitched in for the effort. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From fmillera@p... Mon Jul 09 09:28:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 9 Jul 2001 16:28:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 33323 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 16:26:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2001 16:26:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 16:26:56 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: fmillera@p... Received: from [10.1.10.95] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2001 16:26:55 -0000 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 16:26:50 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Blueprints and such Message-ID: <9icm0a+evt5@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 473 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.199.240.111 From: "Tony Miller" Folks; I would be willing to take whatever schematics Adam has and enter them either into Viewlogic, a standard schematic capture tool which could be used to generate a netlist for future Printed Circuit board layout and, unfortunately, doesn't appear to be able to export a jpeg or whatever, or into Visio with appropriate electronic symbols, which will export appropriately but not generate a netlist. Any interest illustrious group leader? Cheers, Tony Miller From ballyalley@h... Mon Jul 09 10:08:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 9 Jul 2001 17:08:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 49491 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 17:08:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2001 17:08:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.187) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 17:08:47 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:08:47 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 17:08:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: On Tony's blueprint suggestion Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:08:47 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2001 17:08:47.0629 (UTC) FILETIME=[D13933D0:01C10899] From: "Adam Trionfo" July 9, 2001 I can email Tony one of the four (TIFF format) blueprints that I have had scanned in to see what the blueprints look like (Tony email me if this sounds okay). These are blueprints, but NOT schematics (all but one or two-- and those are not Z-GRASS related). These give exact dimensions for the base and the rest of the Z-GRASS unit-- but I have no PCB schematic. Indeed, it looks like I have everything one could want if a dummy Z-GRASS were to be built. But what would the point of that be? Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From fmillera@p... Mon Jul 09 10:26:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 9 Jul 2001 17:26:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 94211 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 17:26:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2001 17:26:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 17:26:20 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.240.111]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GG700KDYV3TPD@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:26:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] On Tony's blueprint suggestion In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20010709102020.00ae1220@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_4479050==_.ALT" From: Tony Miller --=====================_4479050==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:08 AM 7/9/2001 -0700, you wrote: >July 9, 2001 > >I can email Tony one of the four (TIFF format) blueprints that I have had >scanned in to see what the blueprints look like (Tony email me if this >sounds okay). These are blueprints, but NOT schematics (all but one or >two-- and those are not Z-GRASS related). These give exact dimensions for >the base and the rest of the Z-GRASS unit-- but I have no PCB schematic. >Indeed, it looks like I have everything one could want if a dummy Z-GRASS >were to be built. But what would the point of that be? Adam; I'm assuming you mean blueprints of the cabinet, keyboard, etc. Dong anything with these makes no sense to me unless someone with lots of disposable income wants to have a mock-up made. If there are schematics available, then the process I outlined makes sense, assuming (1and 2) or 3 below: 1. the group would like to build one or more of these 2. there is some software somewhere which will speak to it once it is built 3. there is some interest from the point of view of what might-have-been were Bally to have figured out how to make a BPA reliably. In reference to 3., above, I wish that I had hung onto what documentation I had, I'm sure it would have been helpful to members of the group. Cheers, Tony Miller >Adam > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com > > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_4479050==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 10:08 AM 7/9/2001 -0700, you wrote:
July 9, 2001

I can email Tony one of the four (TIFF format) blueprints that I have had
scanned in to see what the blueprints look like (Tony email me if this
sounds okay).  These are blueprints, but NOT schematics (all but one or
two-- and those are not Z-GRASS related).  These give exact dimensions for
the base and the rest of the Z-GRASS unit-- but I have no PCB schematic. 
Indeed, it looks like I have everything one could want if a dummy Z-GRASS
were to be built.  But what would the point of that be?

Adam;

I'm assuming you mean blueprints of the cabinet, keyboard, etc.  Dong anything with these makes no sense to me unless someone with lots of disposable income wants to have a mock-up made. 

If there are schematics available, then the process I outlined makes sense, assuming (1and 2) or 3 below:

        1.      the group would like to build one or more of these
        2.      there is some software somewhere which will speak to it once it is built
        3.      there is some interest from the point of view of what might-have-been were Bally to have figured out how to             make a BPA reliably.

In reference to 3., above, I wish that I had hung onto what documentation I had, I'm sure it would have been helpful to members of the group.

Cheers,

Tony Miller
 


Adam

_________________________________________________________________
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--=====================_4479050==_.ALT-- From ballyalley@h... Sun Jul 15 20:48:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 16 Jul 2001 03:48:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 96410 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2001 03:48:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2001 03:48:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.166) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Jul 2001 03:48:13 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 20:48:13 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 03:48:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Adobe help wanted on two Cursor pages Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 20:48:13 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jul 2001 03:48:13.0331 (UTC) FILETIME=[23713E30:01C10DAA] From: "Adam Trionfo" July 15, 2001 Does anyone here know Photoshop enough to help me convert two grayscale TIFF files from the Cursor newsletter into bitmap TIFF files? Pages 52 and 53 of the newsletter use orange bands in the background and blue text to make the pages difficult to photocopy. Lance Squire just made available the two Cursor pages as 256 grayscale TIFF files (he does NOT have the color originals). I need to reduce these to black and white bitmap files. It is no problem to reduce the file to two colors in photoshop, but the clarity (not great to begin with) takes a real nose dive. This needs to be done because the 256 grayscale files are about 6500K, whereas bitmap files will be just a hair under 100K. Anybody willing to take a peek at these files and see what they can come up with? Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From fmillera@p... Mon Jul 16 17:38:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 17 Jul 2001 00:38:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 94022 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 00:38:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2001 00:38:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mw.egroups.com) (10.1.2.2) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 00:38:55 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: fmillera@p... Received: from [10.1.2.240] by mw.egroups.com with NNFMP; 17 Jul 2001 00:38:54 -0000 Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 00:38:53 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Adobe help wanted on two Cursor pages Message-ID: <9j01et+cor6@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1139 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.199.241.227 From: "Tony Miller" --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: Adam; Send one of them to me, I'll see what I can do. Thanx, Tony Miller > July 15, 2001 > > Does anyone here know Photoshop enough to help me convert two grayscale TIFF > files from the Cursor newsletter into bitmap TIFF files? > > Pages 52 and 53 of the newsletter use orange bands in the background and > blue text to make the pages difficult to photocopy. Lance Squire just made > available the two Cursor pages as 256 grayscale TIFF files (he does NOT have > the color originals). I need to reduce these to black and white bitmap > files. It is no problem to reduce the file to two colors in photoshop, but > the clarity (not great to begin with) takes a real nose dive. > > This needs to be done because the 256 grayscale files are about 6500K, > whereas bitmap files will be just a hair under 100K. > > Anybody willing to take a peek at these files and see what they can come up > with? > > Adam Trionfo > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ward.shrake@w... Mon Jul 16 18:20:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 17 Jul 2001 01:20:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 86354 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 01:20:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2001 01:20:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mw.egroups.com) (10.1.2.2) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 01:20:32 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.2.33] by mw.egroups.com with NNFMP; 17 Jul 2001 01:20:32 -0000 Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 01:20:31 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Project update: Bally multicart Message-ID: <9j03sv+ad5u@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4254 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.65.34 From: "Ward Shrake" Howdy. I just want the group to be aware of a couple of recent developments in the world of Bally software archiving. First off, at the recent SC3 meeting, I archived another 23 games and utility programs. These included some that were originally tapes, but had been made into cartridge form by Michael White. The list of game carts that started out as carts is nearly complete, or close to it. I have no idea how many tapes and things are "still out there" now? It appears that Michael White has the best listings and info on all that. Neither Adam nor myself has any idea what to do with archived images? We don't want to post them publicly, out of fear and/or respect. Adam wants to try to get the rights legally released by the people that made this stuff, or bought the rights, ages ago. I'm all for that. A few have already given their written "OK" on that. Till that is all sorted out, there isn't much more to say on that subject? ["Opening a big can of worms" mode on.] The Bally-compatible multicart that I've discussed before, is now a reality. The first one ever built was demo'd at the SC3 meeting, this past weekend. (See http://www.classicgaming.com/sc3/index.html) I plan to build one or two more soon, and send them with Geoff Voigt to the CGE meeting in Las Vegas, on August 11-12th, so more people can see these games. (See http://www.cgexpo.com/ for more show info.) He says he'll show it off at the Friday night party, if all goes well. If nothing else, having such a device around when other classic gaming fans are in the same room, lets them see what they've been missing? Being able to demo the whole cartridge ROM library in one short sitting, made at least one person at SC3 want to go out and buy an Astrocade game system for themselves. Kinda cool, seeing that kind of response to a system that died out commercially, decades ago? :-) Technical details: 512k of storage space on the cart. Divide that up into 8k chunks, and you'll see that plenty of even the biggest Astrocade cart games will easily fit onto the cart. There are 39 games on there now (if memory serves), with space for another 20-plus games still left over. And this is with lots of memory currently being "wasted"; every game takes 8k of space now, even for a 2k game. A future revision will likely use memory more efficiently, so roughly half that space should be available for more games, at a later time. The prototype multicart was made on a double-sided PC board that I etched myself. I had done a "proto board" version of a similar circuit for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 game system, previous to this cart. When that design worked fully, I began designing the PC board layout for both an improved Emerson multicart, and for the Bally Astrocade. The concepts were the same, even if layout / pinouts / everything else was radically different, from system to system. There are eight DIP switches on the top of the cart, where they can be reached easily enough to be changed without removing the cart from the machine. Just change the switch settings, press "reset" and the familiar menu pops up onscreen, showing what game is "plugged in" at that time. Change them, reset again, and the next name pops up. Once you get the hang of it, you can go from game to game in seconds. It made a few SC3'ers giddy, seeing all those names pop up, one after another! (Adam especially, but there were others.) Last but not least, since I can see the questions coming.... I do not know if I'm going to sell these. If anyone wants one, they should contact me by e-mail, and ask nicely about it. Don't pester or be pushy, please, as this is all just a hobby for me! I have plenty of other things to do, and don't see any real profit potential in all of this, considering the hours it takes to build one by hand, etc. If I did sell any, they'd essentially be priced to repay my labor hours, and the parts and materials required to build one. I don't intend to charge for content, or any kind of "play value"; I don't own that. It won't be "cheap", as I do expect to get a fair wage for my time. This is a labor of love, but I don't plan to make it a labor of stupidity. Ward Shrake ward.shrake@w... From lance@a... Mon Jul 16 18:26:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 17 Jul 2001 01:26:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 826 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 01:26:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2001 01:26:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail2.rdc1.on.home.com) (24.2.9.89) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 01:26:52 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.150.177]) by femail2.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010717012650.RMFS21397.femail2.rdc1.on.home.com@a...> for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 18:26:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3B539176.4010907@a...> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:14:30 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Program Recorders & html F.A.Qs References: <9i579q+j5l2@e...> <9i579q+j5l2@e...> <4.2.2.20010707110719.00a38100@p...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" Hello, I am glad to see things have progressed in my absence.:) I've been talking to Adam Trionfo on various things, and he informed me that there was a need to know about tape recorders & the Bally/Astro Basic. I'll start off by stating that my original program recorder died. Some time between 1989 and 2 weeks ago. :( The first things to know when looking for a replacement, (or your very first) program recorder are: 1. Auto Level or any other auto sound correction thing will wreck the data stream faster than anything. (Avoid!) 2. The less controls the better. The more things that mess with the sound, the more fiddling you'll have to do to set it up. E.G.: Volume only Ideal! Set level & forget! Volume + Tone Difficult. I find tone somewhere about 3/4 works. (Rough estimate will vary by machine/maker) Vol. + Bass & Treble Hard. May be doable .... Haven't tried Vol. + Equalizer Hard^n levers. May be doable, but I've never gotten one to work. Hunting around, I found RadioShack still sells the old style recorders. Now called 'Shoe box style' recorders. Currently they have 2 units for $49.99 CDN. The Optimus CTR-109. Has volume & tone. Is on clearance. The Optimus CTR-111. New start of line. Volume Only! For those getting there first I'd suggest the CTR-111, as it should be the easiest to setup. I chose the 109 cause I liked the look better, and knew about where the tone should be. It still took me about an hour of attempted loads to find the proper settings. Two tips when recording: 1. be sure the tape is past the leader bit. I usually wait till '2' appears on the counter. 2. save twice in one session. This gives you a second chance to get it without rewinding the tape. On playback, the led on the basic cart should be bright, but still show changes in signal. NOTE: Just because the led looks good doesn't mean it's right. You have to be methodical or lucky to hit the right volume. You know it's loading when the data on the screen when you saved starts appearing line by line down the screen. This fact can be used to save a title page. It's a good idea to have a messy screen on you test saves, so that it's easy to tell when it starts loading. Also remember there's a three second header on the saved data. I'm sure I can't answer all questions on this subject, but I do have a new recorder & it works! :) I will be showing Adam & co. and updated html F.A.Q soon. We'll keep you posted. Lance F. Squire From ward.shrake@w... Thu Jul 19 04:41:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 19 Jul 2001 11:41:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 90090 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 11:41:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2001 11:41:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ml.egroups.com) (10.1.1.31) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 11:41:00 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.114] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2001 11:40:58 -0000 Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:40:55 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Project update: Bally multicart Message-ID: <9j6h07+m35d@e...> In-Reply-To: <9j03sv+ad5u@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 8698 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.217 From: "Ward Shrake" I've had a bit of e-mail feedback now, in regards to my previous post about my new multicart. I can already see some trends to the type of questions I'm going to be fielding. So, let me head some of them off early, and also a few I think that people could be asking soon.... (Q.) Do I have to buy your multicart to play (insert game name)? Is there some other way to play games for the Bally Astrocade system? (A.) My multicart is not the only way to play these games. Obviously, you can go out and find the actual carts one-by-one, buy a real Bally system, and play games that way. Emulation is another way. MESS does support the Bally Astrocade, and ROM images are available online. I have always made sure that whatever ROM images I had from archiving various carts, got into the hands of the movers-and-shakers of this community. Some ROMs are online and available for download. Some are not. The decision to keep some ROMs in private collections was not my idea. I do, however, respect it and the reasons behind it. At least a few of these games are now legally available for play by anyone, for non-profit purposes, because of the patience and restraint exercised, not to mention the efforts to track the authors down and ask nicely. We hope that in time, they'll all be available for non-profit use? In the meantime, there are still plenty of non-multicart ways to play. (Q.) What do you mean by "non-profit"? Why use that term at all? (A.) I respect the rights of the people who wrote this software, to determine who -- if anyone -- is allowed to copy it. But I also do not want this software to succumb to "bit rot" or any of the other nasty fates that could keep the world from rediscovering these bits (pun intended) of our cultural history. So, I'm torn between two opposing views. I have made a multicart, basically to have it myself, for use in my own home. And a few friends wanted me to make one for them, which sounded reasonable enough. And then other people began saying they wanted one, too. Which puts me where I am today; giving serious thought to making a limited number of these multicarts, and selling them to others. Where I'm drawing my moral lines is that I'm not planning to profit off of someone else's work. I do, however, want to be paid for my own labor hours, and reimbursed for my costs in terms of materials, wear on cutting and drilling tools, etc. But beyond that, I'm not trying to make a profit. I just want to have a good time, make some cool stuff, play some games, and break even. (Q.) What will these multicarts cost me, if I want to buy one? (A.) Probably around one hundred dollars, but that's just a rough figure, which may change. It's a good approximation for right now. I'm basing that on a rough guesstimate of $20 to $30 in parts and material costs, which I'll obviously need to be reimbursed for. I am guessing it will take about three or four hours of labor per cart, from start to finish, based on how long the prototypes took to put together this past weekend, and general experience with electronics. That would mean I'm asking for a wage of around $15 to $20 an hour, give or take, to make one of these on my "one-man assembly line". I am also not adding a charge for having developed this in the first place, or all the time it took to find and archive all these carts. I plan to make a custom label, and not charge for the artwork, either. I don't see this as being unreasonable to the customer, at all? If you know the pay rates electronics techs usually get -- and I do have a college degree in electronics, mind you -- you'll know that's darn cheap? Many repair places get $60 to $75 an hour. At $20-ish, I'm almost giving my time away! (Below that, I have better things to do with my time... like watching television. Or sleeping.) But for a project that I see as a labor of love, and if I'm treated decently by others during the process, I can justify spending my time to do this. (Q.) Will you teach me how to make my own multicart? (A.) No. I don't have the time to. If you want to find out about that sort of thing, go back and read the archived messages. Number 115 was posted by me, months ago. It gives links to that sort of information. If you really want to do it yourself, and you think you have all the background information / experience / skills to do something like this, that linked information should be all you need. Good luck! (Q.) Will you just sell me the parts I need, and let me build a multicart in kit form? (Presumably paying less in the process.) (A.) No, for a number of very good reasons. First, it would be totally pointless to do so from a cost standpoint, since by far the largest majority of the time spent on building one of these is getting the circuit board ready for final assembly. For example: I have to clean and light sensitize a raw double-sided circuit board, expose the photo-mask patterns onto the board, develop the etch resist patterns, etch the board, clean off the etch resist, drill all the tiny holes, cut the board to its final shape, deburr any sharp edges, make sure the board fits into the plastic case just right (so the cart edges goes to where they're supposed to, otherwise the cart will not work at all), carefully cut a hole in the plastic case for the DIP switches, print out a custom-made label for the cart, attach it, and print out instructions on how to use the cart's dip switches to select the games on the cart. The only steps I skipped in the long list above are programming the EPROM memory chip, soldering all the parts together, and giving the final product a good testing before shipping it out. Notice how long the list was, even without those last few steps? That's where the majority of my time will be spent, no matter how I make one of these carts. Cost savings? Not likely. Notice also that if I made a kit, and sold that to someone willing to solder it all together, that I would also be cut completely out of the loop on the final pre-shipping step. That is, actually testing the unit to make sure it works. Sorry: that is NOT going to happen! If I do sell one of these, it is going to leave my hands in tested- and-working form, for my own peace of mind. (Years ago, I worked at a local college as an electronics lab assistant. I've seen plenty of student work. It scares me to this day!) If I test it all myself before it leaves my hands, I have peace of mind that I won't get complaints later, I won't have to deal with any assembly hand-holding hassles (not to mention lost time), and nobody will have an excuse to bad-mouth me behind my back because they couldn't get "their" project to work. And I won't have to deal with people wanting telling me to do repairs, after they burnt half the traces off the board, etc. And I won't have to deal with requests for full refunds, either, due to non-working carts. All of which I believe is not only possible, but inevitable, no matter what people will try to tell me up front. Does it make any sense to me to skip one relatively small soldering step, and take on all this unnecessary worry and hassle in its place? No way. I'd have to be insane to agree to that. I'm not. I won't do it. (Q.) I've read all the above, I am willing to pay your asking price without talking you down, I will try hard not to be rude or mean to you, and I still want one of these. How can I go about getting one? (A.) Write to me at my e-mail address, and tell me about it. I have no stocks of these ready to go; none, nada, zip. Be warned now that any orders for them will be done on an "I actually have a life, and this is just a hobby, so I will build you one when I have time to" basis. I won't take money until the cart is ready to go; that's just right, and is for both our protection. My immediate plans are to build a small amount of them (1 to 5) over the next few weeks, and to send one or more of those with Geoff Voigt to the CGE meeting in Las Vegas, during August 2001. Geoff agreed this weekend to show them off, on Friday night at least, possibly later. (I say "them" because I also made a similar multicart for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 game system. I hope to have examples of both ready for CGE in August. Keep in mind that even if you have no intent of buying one of these, that if you're going to CGE anyway, here is a good chance to see and play lots of really rare games for two obscure -- sorry! -- systems?) I am afraid I won't be able to attend CGE myself. More news as it happens. This should answer just about everyone's current questions, I hope? Ward Shrake From ward.shrake@w... Fri Jul 20 18:30:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 21 Jul 2001 01:30:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 25123 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2001 01:30:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2001 01:30:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n34.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.30) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Jul 2001 01:30:32 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.95] by mk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2001 01:30:32 -0000 Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 01:30:31 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Project update: Bally multicart Message-ID: <9jalvn+eiaj@e...> In-Reply-To: <9j6h07+m35d@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3543 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.138 From: "Ward Shrake" Some more thoughts, and attempts to answer semi-frequent questions in regards to the multicarts I'm working on for both the Emerson Arcadia and the Bally Astrocade.... (Q.) Are you going to offer any discounts, say for buying two carts? (A.) No discounts of any kind are going to be offered beyond the already low price I'm charging for my time. As stated before, technicians that are capable of etching and assembling their own custom circuit boards make an hourly wage of around $60 an hour, or even more. I am only asking around $20 an hour for my time, maybe less. That's already a price reduction of sixty-six percent, or two- thirds off. If I did charge full industry rates of $60 an hour, times the four hours of my time each cart will take me to make, that's $240 in labor alone. Add in the $30 or so in materials and tool wear, to get $270 total. As stated many times before, I'm not going to charge anything at all for the content itself, the design time I spent to have created the working original prototype in the first place, the time to create PC board photo-masks, or the time for me to create new label art for this project. And then there is the issue of customer support down the road, which people will inevitably expect to be given to them for free. (And so on... if you don't get the point by now, you never will, so I'm moving on.) (Q.) I just can't afford to pay $100 (or more) for one of these multicarts. What should I do? (A.) Stop wanting one. Seriously. I'm not going to give them away, no matter how much of a hardship a person claims it will cause them to have to come up with that kind of money. It would be a hardship for me to waste all of my free time, when I could just as easily spend it more wisely by getting a part-time job that pays a fair hourly wage. As stated before, this multicart is not the only way to play these games. We've all managed to live for twenty-plus years without one of these items. It seems ridiculous for people to be giving themselves an ulcer trying to figure out how they can get something today, that they've lived their whole lives without having. "It's just a hobby." I forgot to mention it before, but Michael White will make individual cartridges of just about anything for the Bally library. Add that to my previous post's list of alternate ways you can play these games. (Q.) Don't you feel you owe something to the people that loaned you carts over the years? Can't you do something special for them? (A.) I already have. I have spent literally years of my life, finding and archiving carts for free, so that game fans could see and play these relics years from now. I've always made sure the owners of a cart had a backup copy of their rare item, and access to any other ROM images I had and was able to distribute among fans of various systems. Not to mention all the game ROMs that are available solely because of my efforts, that you can all enjoy for free, via software emulation? I've done plenty for everyone. If anything, the community owes ME some kind of a debt of gratitude, not the other way around? And to be fair, I don't see any of those people actually asking this? It is much more likely the kind of thing to be said behind one's back, by the un-involved, as an excuse to be unrealistically angry over the idea that they can't have all the candy in the candy store. (Q.) You really sound like a huge jerk. How'd you end up this way? (A.) Years of practice. Thanks for asking. :-) Ward Shrake From ballyalley@h... Fri Jul 20 21:51:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 21 Jul 2001 04:51:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 77019 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2001 04:51:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2001 04:51:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.148) by mta3 with SMTP; 21 Jul 2001 04:51:29 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:51:29 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 04:51:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Fair mululticart price? I think so! Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:51:28 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jul 2001 04:51:29.0291 (UTC) FILETIME=[CE1385B0:01C111A0] From: "Adam Trionfo" I just want to vouch for Ward (I’ve met him). He is not a jerk, as he suggested of himself in his latest (third!) multicart update. Ward is a descent person. His suggested price of about one-hundred dollars for a multicart is not outrageous. I applaud him for his cost breakdown; he includes a reasonable wage for his labor too. Think of this: each cartridge is made by hand. How many other cartridges do you have that are made by hand? Any at all? Anyone can go into a store and buy an art print, but few can afford an original. The difference is in manufacturing. As anyone knows, volume keeps down costs, and Ward’s one-man assembly line is not volume manufacturing with any sense of the word. I wonder if Ward ever feels that his time is wasted making these cartridges. The exciting part (creation) is over for him. Now he is doing the grunt work, assembling and building cartridges for as low a price as possible so that he doesn’t lose interest. Ward’s time really is worth something, to him- and to me. I know that what he does is worth far more than the measly amount of money that selling a handful of these cartridges is ever going to bring to him. I am glad to show my appreciation here by stating publicly that his multicart is worth as much as he claims. And more. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From solder_guy@m... Sat Jul 21 19:03:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 22 Jul 2001 02:03:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 47466 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2001 02:03:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jul 2001 02:03:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail11.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Jul 2001 02:03:17 -0000 Received: œby mail11.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA16274; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:03:16 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:03:16 -0700 Message-Id: <200107220203.TAA16274@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.36.223] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bally multicart From: "solder_guy Last Name" Well $100 is alot of money ... but that is in the middle of the range of costs for multicarts offered by Sean Kelly and others .. Plus the new Cuttle Cart for the Atari 2600 is costing $100 plus shipping. Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ward.shrake@w... Sun Jul 22 20:41:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 23 Jul 2001 03:41:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 96444 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2001 03:41:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Jul 2001 03:41:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.49) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Jul 2001 03:41:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.95] by ej.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2001 03:41:02 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 03:40:58 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bally multicart Message-ID: <9jg6ca+d7dt@e...> In-Reply-To: <200107220203.TAA16274@m...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 6268 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.68.210 From: "Ward Shrake" --- In ballyalley@y..., "solder_guy Last Name" wrote: > Well $100 is alot of money ... but that is in the middle of the range of costs for multicarts offered by Sean Kelly and others .. Plus the new Cuttle Cart for the Atari 2600 is costing $100 plus shipping. > > Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA Believe it or not, Rob, I agree with you... $100 is a lot of money. I never said it was a pittance. In fact, I'll go so far as to say publicly that if this situation were reversed -- if someone else was selling these and I was buying -- that given my budget, it would realistically most likely be a year, maybe two, before I could afford to buy one. I just don't have lots of disposable cash laying around. I almost never have, except in unpredictable spurts, here and there. And honestly, it does bother me to be charging that much. I just see no choice. What I'm doing for a day job, right now, is acting. If you're ever heard the horror stories about all that, financially speaking, you'll have some idea of why I feel I *have* to charge for my time, or find a regular part time job to supplement my income. (Of course, the up-side of all that is lots of spare time, right?) Money is probably one big reason why I've been so defensive about all this, of late? (That and some mind-blowingly inflammatory comments made about we homebrew types, over on the rec.games.video.classic usenet newsgroup, last week. But that's another story in itself.) So, folks, allow me to rephrase some of what I said earlier, take some of it back, and tone it all down a bit. Put things in better perspective, etc., and see if that helps explain my ideas better? The idea of a multicart is not new. There have been such things on other systems, for quite a long time. But this system just got one that could hold the whole library, so I suppose that a certain amount of "ooh, ooh, I want that!" is inevitable. Which makes me nervous, because I'm making each one of these by hand, in my spare time, when I don't already have some unrelated thing taking up my spare time. In other words, if there was a sudden rush on "give me one right this minute" I would have a darned hard time filling those orders. Which would bother me quite a bit, and stress me out. Realistically, I would like to get a few carts made before CGE, just to show to others (through a proxy, since I won't be able to go this year). I may be paranoid, but I'd like to get more feedback on these before I begin making them? I want to feel comfortable that once I do start making them for sale, that people will like what they've paid for. And that I've thought of all of the "future-support" type things that I can. All of which makes me want to put the brakes on people, just in case? On top of that, I don't want people freaking out over "I have to have this, or I'm going to just die right here" type attitudes. (Part of the big ruckus on RGVC was caused by just such an attitude.) I worded my "stop wanting one" comment harsher than I should have, mainly to try to avoid that sort of pressure from jumping out at me. I won't argue with that. It wasn't my intent to be rude or mean, or to hurt anyone's feelings. On the other hand, I didn't want to be blamed for people being obsessed with the idea that they just HAD to have one of these? A multicart is neat. I built the first ones for myself, so yeah, they're cool to have around, if you want to play lots of stuff. But are they the only way to see what these rare, "mystical" games look like, or sound like? Not really. As I mentioned before, Michael White can solder you up just about any single cartridge you'd want, no matter how rare it is. (If he has the ROM image, and he has most.) And don't quote me, but I think he does it for around $10 per cart, which I think is quite reasonable? Especially for the super- rare, "good luck ever finding it in the wild or on eBay" type carts? (A quick aside -- I talked to Mike on the phone, last night. He is making up what sounds like the world's best, most accurate, most detailed cartridge list the Bally has ever seen. I can't wait!?) And to be honest, I was way too defensive on the bit about the guys that loaned me carts in the past. It isn't that I don't appreciate what they've done. I thought it was super nice of them then, and I still think well of them for doing it. In fact, for most systems I have archived stuff on, I keep fairly detailed lists, privately reminding me of who loaned me what. But again, if they suddenly decided to start pushing me for deals, or just to make them one, I would be back in that "rush, rush, rush" mode I want to avoid. This is supposed to be a hobby, which to me means it is something I look forward to doing, and that relaxes me when I do it. Not something that I'll quickly come to resent doing, and want to avoid doing altogether. Plus, I want to be able to take breaks from it, once in awhile? I'm human. I don't want to be a robotic assembly line? So, let me wrap this up this way... If anyone wants some ROM images to play in an emulator, write to me in e-mail. I'll see what I can do. And you don't have to tell me you want a multicart, either. I've always tried to share this stuff, as much as was reasonable and prudent? Just ask nicely, and try to show some appreciation for the game system itself, and I'll try to make your day. If people want individual carts made up, contact Mike White. When I talked to him yesterday, he said he has enough raw parts to make about 100 individual cartridges... give or take. No problems there. And pretty please, if you think it all over, and you do decide that you really want a multicart, try to have a relaxed attitude about it, so that I don't stress and feel I have to start acting like "Oscar the Grouch" again. (Not that I blame anyone but me.) I don't want to do that, any more than you guys want to have to put up with it. :-( Ideally, if people had that "whenever you feel like it, and have the time" no-pressure type attitude, I could make a few of these each month, until the hardcore fans all had one. I'm in no hurry if you guys aren't? Till then, there's always ROM images and emulation? Ward Shrake From solder_guy@m... Mon Jul 23 06:44:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 23 Jul 2001 13:44:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 6184 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2001 12:10:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Jul 2001 12:10:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail21.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.195) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Jul 2001 12:10:11 -0000 Received: œby mail21.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA07184; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 05:10:11 -0700 Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 05:10:11 -0700 Message-Id: <200107231210.FAA07184@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.37.52] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ballyalley] Re: Bally multicart From: "solder_guy Last Name" >>Believe it or not, Rob, I agree with you... $100 is a lot of money.<< Thanks Ward .. I look forward to getting my own multicart! Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Thu Jul 26 16:25:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 26 Jul 2001 23:25:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 22605 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2001 23:25:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Jul 2001 23:25:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.70) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Jul 2001 23:25:19 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:25:19 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:25:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Astrocade messages (part 2) 136-161 in file area Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:25:19 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jul 2001 23:25:19.0676 (UTC) FILETIME=[3C27BFC0:01C1162A] From: "Adam Trionfo" July 26, 2001 I have edited and uploaded another text compilation of postings into the file area of the Astrocade message group. The file is compressed using zip. Many of the messages in this new file contain postings from the last few weeks that deal with the Astrocade multicart. The file is called: astrocade_messages_136-161.zip As always, it can be found at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ After working with the first large file, I am going to try to make these compilation of messages more frequently. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Thu Jul 26 18:28:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 27 Jul 2001 01:28:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 90973 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2001 01:28:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2001 01:28:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.83) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Jul 2001 01:28:30 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:28:30 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 01:28:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Help with Issue 2 of Bally Alley Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:28:30 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jul 2001 01:28:30.0628 (UTC) FILETIME=[71818640:01C1163B] From: "Adam Trionfo" July 26, 2001 After printing out the two Astrocade message compilation files, I see that SOMETHING has to be done to make this information easier to read. The idea of a smaller Message FAQ has come up before, but after spending a couple of hours toying with this idea, I have decided it is best to leave ALL of the messages the way that they are. While it is certainly possible to weed out all of the information and make a Message FAQ, I’m not sure that the final result would be much easier to read. On several occasions I’ve been asked if the Bally Alley newsletter is dead (after only one issue). My reply is always the same, “when I finish collecting information on the web site, then I will return to the newsletter.” I realize now that the Bally Alley web site will never be “done.” Therefore, I have decided that another PAPER issue of Bally Alley is due. I do not mean that I will be mailing these to anyone (like I did with OC&GS, or like Digital Press does currently), I plan to post issue 2 as a PDF file available for download. I am looking for help with putting the issue together. I am not looking to cut and paste directly from the message board postings. These will be used (along with an accumulated wealth of email) as a basis for writing quality articles. Ideally I would like to have a small issue to take along to CGExpo. This probably means about eight pages (four actual double-sided pages): a nice short issue (double the size of issue one though). I have about two weeks (minus a few days) to come up with this. In an ideal world I would have no problem reaching this goal, but since I am moving at the end of August it is quite unlikely that an issue will be finished before I go. I’m going to give it a go anyway. I shall post more of this subject soon. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From rich_gallo@h... Tue Jul 31 06:20:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich_gallo@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 31 Jul 2001 13:20:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 13740 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 13:19:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2001 13:19:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 13:19:33 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: rich_gallo@h... Received: from [10.1.10.66] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2001 13:19:33 -0000 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:19:32 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bally multicart Message-ID: <9k6b94+dl05@e...> In-Reply-To: <200107231210.FAA07184@m...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 423 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 206.210.27.33 From: "Rich Gallo" Ward, I would certainly consider a Bally Multicart from you if this becomes a reality. I currently don't own a Bally machine, but I have wanted to for some time. This would be a great excuse to purchase the hardware, since I enjoy playing the classics on the original hardware more than emulation, and more than collecting boxes and manuals and stuff. The price is certainly within my budget, so keep me informed! From lance@a... Thu Aug 02 17:10:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Aug 2001 00:10:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 53971 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 00:10:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2001 00:10:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail2.rdc1.on.home.com) (24.2.9.89) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 00:10:30 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.100.237.28]) by femail2.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010803001029.CLUV10662.femail2.rdc1.on.home.com@a...> for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:10:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3B69E8F8.2070801@a...> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:57:44 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Original Bally etc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" This morning a Bally 'Home Library Computer', First nameplate the unit was ever sold under, went for US $247.50 (approx. C $380.18). Unbeleavable... I'm trying to make arangements with the new owner to get pictures. Work on the updated html faq is progressing....slowly. Lance F. Squire From slapdash@e... Thu Aug 02 22:25:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Aug 2001 05:25:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 86946 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 05:25:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2001 05:25:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.enteract.com) (207.229.143.4) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 05:25:35 -0000 Received: from [207.229.149.223] (207-229-149-223.d.enteract.com [207.229.149.223]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B2BF8B9E for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:25:34 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3B69E8F8.2070801@a...> References: <3B69E8F8.2070801@a...> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:21:10 -0500 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Original Bally etc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Russ Perry Jr >This morning a Bally 'Home Library Computer', First nameplate the unit >was ever sold under, went for US $247.50 (approx. C $380.18). I assume this was on one of the auction sites? Do you have a URL? >I'm trying to make arangements with the new owner to get pictures. Were there any pix on the auction? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From agassmann@e... Fri Aug 03 05:38:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: agassmann@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Aug 2001 12:37:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 79595 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 12:37:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2001 12:37:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.49) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 12:37:58 -0000 Received: from m4q1l6.earthlink.net (user-33qto4a.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.224.138]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA06500 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 05:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.1.20010803063415.00a74ec0@m...> X-Sender: agassmann@m... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:35:50 -0600 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Original Bally etc. In-Reply-To: References: <3B69E8F8.2070801@a...> <3B69E8F8.2070801@a...> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_228196638==_" From: Andrew Gassmann --=====================_228196638==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:21 AM 8/3/2001 -0500, you wrote: > >This morning a Bally 'Home Library Computer', First nameplate the unit > >was ever sold under, went for US $247.50 (approx. C $380.18). > >I assume this was on one of the auction sites? Do you have a URL? > > >I'm trying to make arangements with the new owner to get pictures. > >Were there any pix on the auction? >-- Here is a pic of my Bally 'Home Library Computer' Grandkids play 'Wizard' on it, and love it. Andy >//*================================================================++ >|| Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || >|| 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... 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4Czv21tLCyBtcA3JOePwxXcbBgl3csKBRxOM0KFXCTSaMJr7z//Z --=====================_228196638==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed --=====================_228196638==_-- From agassmann@e... Fri Aug 03 05:51:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: agassmann@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Aug 2001 12:51:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 12056 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 12:51:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2001 12:51:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.49) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 12:51:19 -0000 Received: from m4q1l6.earthlink.net (user-33qto4a.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.224.138]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19398 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 05:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.1.20010803064831.00a766e0@m...> X-Sender: agassmann@m... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:49:31 -0600 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Original Bally etc. In-Reply-To: References: <3B69E8F8.2070801@a...> <3B69E8F8.2070801@a...> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_229018663==_" From: Andrew Gassmann --=====================_229018663==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:21 AM 8/3/2001 -0500, you wrote: > >This morning a Bally 'Home Library Computer', First nameplate the unit > >was ever sold under, went for US $247.50 (approx. C $380.18). > >I assume this was on one of the auction sites? Do you have a URL? > > >I'm trying to make arangements with the new owner to get pictures. > >Were there any pix on the auction? >-- Sorry, sent the wrong pic. Andy >//*================================================================++ >|| Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || >|| 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || >++================================================================*// > > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! 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Fri Aug 03 05:55:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Aug 2001 12:55:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 63298 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 12:55:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2001 12:55:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail21.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.195) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 12:55:47 -0000 Received: œby mail21.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA29995; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 05:55:47 -0700 Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 05:55:47 -0700 Message-Id: <200108031255.FAA29995@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.38.197] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Re: [ballyalley] Original Bally etc. From: "solder_guy Last Name" >>Here is a pic of my Bally 'Home Library Computer' Grandkids play 'Wizard' on it, and love it.<< Nice! Who needs a Sony Playstation when they can get a Bally Astrocade .. and play Wizard of Wor! Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From lance@a... Fri Aug 03 11:24:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Aug 2001 18:24:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 37851 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 18:23:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2001 18:23:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alteeve.com) (209.226.69.125) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 18:23:53 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com (norigen-gw1.bettermarkets.com [206.186.28.114] (may be forged)) by alteeve.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA00375 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:39:31 -0400 Message-ID: <3B6AEC85.6030405@a...> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:25:09 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i686; en-US; rv:0.9.1) Gecko/20010622 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Original Bally etc. References: <3B69E8F8.2070801@a...> <3B69E8F8.2070801@a...> <5.0.2.1.1.20010803064831.00a766e0@m...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" Andrew Gassmann wrote: Cool!!! Can I use it in the FAQ? -- Lance F. Squire [Linux is] "A system that allows for precise knowledge of everything that is or can happen on the system, but doesn't require it" Undisclosed seminar site. From lance@a... Fri Aug 03 12:05:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Aug 2001 19:05:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 76166 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 19:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2001 19:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alteeve.com) (209.226.69.125) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 19:05:13 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com (norigen-gw1.bettermarkets.com [206.186.28.114] (may be forged)) by alteeve.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00442 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:20:54 -0400 Message-ID: <3B6AF637.6060605@a...> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 15:06:31 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i686; en-US; rv:0.9.1) Gecko/20010622 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley Subject: Other labels Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" Just woundering if anyone on the list would have a system with the 'astrocade' label? -- Lance F. Squire From agassmann@e... Fri Aug 03 13:11:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: agassmann@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Aug 2001 20:11:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 9360 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 20:11:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Aug 2001 20:11:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 20:11:47 -0000 Received: from m4q1l6.earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.11.230.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net [209.245.11.230]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26071 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:11:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.1.20010803140924.00a73520@m...> X-Sender: agassmann@m... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:09:58 -0600 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Original Bally etc. In-Reply-To: <3B6AEC85.6030405@a...> References: <3B69E8F8.2070801@a...> <3B69E8F8.2070801@a...> <5.0.2.1.1.20010803064831.00a766e0@m...> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Andrew Gassmann At 02:25 PM 8/3/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Andrew Gassmann wrote: > > >Sure, no problem Andy >Cool!!! Can I use it in the FAQ? > >-- >Lance F. Squire > > From ballyalley@h... Fri Aug 03 13:32:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Aug 2001 20:32:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 67145 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 20:32:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2001 20:32:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.154) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 20:32:40 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:32:40 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 20:32:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: On Astrocade playing, collecting and more Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:32:40 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Aug 2001 20:32:40.0277 (UTC) FILETIME=[70C6E850:01C11C5B] From: "Adam Trionfo" August 3, 2001 I find it very interesting that there are various versions of the Bally/Astrocade, but I would not want to own them all. Also, am I the only collector/player that does not care about condition, as long as an item works? I've never understood collectors that buy early versions of hardware or software (especially, buggy early prototypes when a finished release is available). I don't understand it in game collecting, or any other hobby. I would rather have a CD than a record, a re-issued book over a first edition, and any version of a console that works and allows me to play the intended cartridges over a console that just has a different revision motherboard and dust cover. It isn't just about the cost either, a non-boxed, beat-up item is just so much easier to get. I am in the minority though, and it took me a very long time to understand that I am. When I hear that someone has a new, mint-condition, boxed X machine, or Y software, I wonder why it is still shrink-wrapped. Does the owner have two-- one for collecting and one to play? Usually not. I have been contacted by people asking for Sale/Trade advice. "Is it worth trading this Atari item for this Bally item? Mine is boxed, but the other isn't. What should I do? Is it worth it?" I never have problems like this. I don't think any pure player does. Either I want it or I don't. If I'm tired of what I have then I usually get rid of it. I try not to look at the collector's perspective, but rather from my own player's point of view. For instance, from a pure player's point of view, VCS "Combat" might be an EXCELLENT trade for "Chase the Chuckwagon." Of course, no such pure player exists (too bad) I try to find a happy medium between collector and player. For those of you that are aware of the research into the Astrocade that I am doing for various reasons, do not worry. I would not omit any historical information from Astrocade related articles that I write. While I would not care to own all of these pieces of historial hardware, I know that others do. I knew that when I wrote the article on the UV-1 off-shoot of the Astrocade that suddenly people would want one. Once the information on the UV-1 was put out, people would try to "save" the UV-1 machine from being lost. I'm glad. What I don't understand is why so many collectors are willing to sit back and collect what they can find. Any collecotor willing to do a little footwork and fact-finding would eventually be able to find and buy a UV-1 computer. So what's the hold-up? Finally, how many people reading this PLAY the Astrocade, and how many people only COLLECT it? Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From cybpunks@h... Fri Aug 03 14:00:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Aug 2001 21:00:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 34601 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 21:00:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2001 21:00:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 21:00:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.34] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 03 Aug 2001 21:00:22 -0000 Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 21:00:20 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: On Astrocade playing, collecting and more Message-ID: <9kf3d4+eps2@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 886 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.85 From: "Glenn Saunders" I think there are two types of collectors, those who collect for the pride of ownership, and those who are basically temporary curators who are probably going to donate their stuff to a museum one day. It's just that microcomputer history hasn't hit critical mass yet as far as the museums go, so it's up to collectors to save this stuff. I fall mostly into the latter category. So if I had anything boxed, I'd most likely keep it boxed and find something "old and beat up", as you say, to play. Not that I haven't done the reverse. I once had an Astrocade in the box that I took out and played. I'd say out of all the consoles there are probably more NOS (New Old Stock) Astrocades in the box than any other. There NEEDS to be a few showpiece items still in mint condition for the sake of the museums. If everything gets opened and played, it will all wear out... From incense@q... Fri Aug 03 19:01:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: incense@q... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 4 Aug 2001 02:01:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 74609 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 02:01:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Aug 2001 02:01:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO q4.quik.com) (216.176.28.1) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 02:01:14 -0000 Received: from victorip (ip103.nwphx.quik.com [216.176.37.103]) by q4.quik.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f741sQN41102 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 18:54:26 -0700 Message-ID: <034b01c11c89$bc0ab480$6725b0d8@v...> To: Subject: New Posters Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 19:04:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0348_01C11C4F.0EE3F8A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "gpp" ------=_NextPart_000_0348_01C11C4F.0EE3F8A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Help Distribute Pro-Gun Posters .... SaveOurGuns Posters - Download for FREE and distribute - visual images with= powerful messages:=20=20 - ask businesses to display; - place copies on car windows in parking lots; - e-mail to friend, legislators; - leave copies at libraries New Additions: Posters: Defense Force - Win. Model 70 (American Flag background) http://www.saveourguns.com/poster-defenseforce001.htm =20 Think about Your FREEDOM http://www.saveourguns.com/poster-celebrateBillOfRights.htm Tyrants Beware - Defense Force (Win. Model 70) Lightening background http://www.saveourguns.com/poster-tyrantsbeware002.htm Tyrants Beware - Defense Force - Defense Force (sub machine gun) Lightening= background http://www.saveourguns.com/poster-tyrantsbeware001.htm And more at http://www.saveourguns.com/posters_you_can_download.htm SaveOurGuns has over 20 different posters for you to print out. Plus, there= are links to posters from other Pro Bill of Rights web sites=20 Please distribute this e-mail to as many fellow Patriots as possible.=20 Thank you. SaveOurGuns.com Find Out Whats Going On!!!!!!!!!!!!! =20 http://yahoogroups.com/group/ParanoidTimes http://yahoogroups.com/group/armageddon-or-newage Every able bodied man is a member of the militia by constitutional law. 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Find Out Whats Going On!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Every able bodied man= is a=20 member of the militia by constitutional law. Join Today!
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Expose Of The New Age
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http://watch.pair.com/pray.html
 
 
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------=_NextPart_000_0348_01C11C4F.0EE3F8A0-- From incense@q... Fri Aug 03 19:03:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: incense@q... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 4 Aug 2001 02:03:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 79158 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 02:03:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Aug 2001 02:03:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO q4.quik.com) (216.176.28.1) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 02:03:22 -0000 Received: from victorip (ip103.nwphx.quik.com [216.176.37.103]) by q4.quik.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f741tdN171626 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 18:55:39 -0700 Message-ID: <035601c11c89$e77cd620$6725b0d8@v...> To: Subject: TAG! Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 19:05:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0352_01C11C4F.3A43CAC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "gpp" ------=_NextPart_000_0352_01C11C4F.3A43CAC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0353_01C11C4F.3A43CAC0" ------=_NextPart_001_0353_01C11C4F.3A43CAC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://yahoogroups.com/group/ParanoidTimes ------=_NextPart_001_0353_01C11C4F.3A43CAC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
 
http://yahoogroups.com/= group/ParanoidTimes
 
 
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Fri Aug 03 19:45:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 4 Aug 2001 02:45:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 55989 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 02:45:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Aug 2001 02:45:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail3.rdc1.on.home.com) (24.2.9.90) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 02:45:31 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.100.237.28]) by femail3.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010804024528.HHDH619.femail3.rdc1.on.home.com@a...> for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 19:45:28 -0700 Message-ID: <3B6B5EC8.20806@a...> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 22:32:40 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] On Astrocade playing, collecting and more References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020803020401020901010808" From: "Lance F. Squire" --------------020803020401020901010808 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit AH! The many sided question of collecting. Pesronally, I started with the systems I owned as I got them. (Pack rat syndrome?) Then added the systems I wished I could pick up at the time. (Usually played at a friends house back when). Now, Some systems I add just to have as compleat a selection of systems as possable. (while staying within a meger budget)Thats one of each type, not every veriation of each. Works like this: 1) Buy system I like best when new. Enjoy! 2) Buy system I thought deserved 2nd on clearance. Enjoy cheaply! 3) Someone hears I collect and offers unit I didn't purchase for free. Bonus! & rounds out collection. But it's NOT just about having them, for me. It's about knowing how they worked, what made them different from the others, and what unique feature/s each had that was never repeated or beacme standard to the industry. (It's amasing howmuch old abandond technology gets reintroduced as new & inovative! With all the same faults, but faster!) The label changes in the Bally line are really only of historical and informational intrest to me. If I had thought that someone on the list had one, (Bally/Home Library Computer) I would have asked for a picture earlier! Rather that chasing one acress eBay. By the way I do have the pictures fron the ocction, but they were unusable. 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fNsviO9P4/3n+7csjgpPoVP7vMiOy+hTw4pq7/fn+68cs1dHleXHMc1dH+8k+3/xhxxZIDmq nJ/uz0+eZh4GZdJ6vD7eY54HHKnH/s8fDgGzw3f3ePiQC8DpJMfApgp/vI/7x8eSHSf3eWQx 0l0f25Jcx82Sld6ksmWYUcDpP3f/AD1zImvA/wD/2Q== --------------020803020401020901010808-- From incense@q... Fri Aug 03 20:58:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: incense@q... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 4 Aug 2001 03:58:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 85539 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 03:58:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Aug 2001 03:58:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO q4.quik.com) (216.176.28.1) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 03:58:26 -0000 Received: from victorip (ip078.nwphx.quik.com [216.176.37.78]) by q4.quik.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f743pcN54262 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:51:38 -0700 Message-ID: <015b01c11c9a$1a9fb4e0$4e25b0d8@v...> To: Subject: iRESiST Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:01:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0158_01C11C5F.6D883B40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "gpp" ------=_NextPart_000_0158_01C11C5F.6D883B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D iRESiST.com e-Mail Alert for Friday, August 03 2001 Daily News and Views for the Resistance Movement Mail: info@i... -- URL: http://iresist.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D In Today's Alert: -5 News Headline(s) -The Latest News From Top Independent Websites -1 New Directory Listing(s) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCurrent News Headlines=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ~ Big Brother Is Watching http://iresist.com/go.cfm?I=3D1125 More Info: The socialist's dream of constant observation as a means of peop= le control is arriving, albeit 17 years behind Orwellian schedule. ~ So Help Me God Dropped from Senate Oaths http://iresist.com/go.cfm?I=3D1124 More Info: Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy is leaving out the cu= stomary "so help me God" when swearing in those who testify before the comm= ittee. ~ The Constitution Is The Drug War's Casualty=20 http://iresist.com/go.cfm?I=3D1123 More Info: In the name of what other cause would conservatives support unco= nstitutional property confiscations, unconstitutional searches and Orwellia= n Big Brother invasions of privacy? ~ 850,000 Children Now Home-Schooled http://iresist.com/go.cfm?I=3D1122 More Info: The number of parents taking direct responsibility for teaching = their children through homeschooling is approaching a million. ~ The Enemy of your Enemy Isn't Necessarily your Friend http://iresist.com/go.cfm?I=3D1121 More Info: John Ashcroft's willingness to enforce unconstitutional gun laws= is only one of his many abuses of the public trust. News Headlines From Top Independent Websites: >From http://worldnetdaily.com-- ~WorldNetDaily: Sharon scales back peace goals http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D903 ~WorldNetDaily: Reform Party adopts pro-life platform http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D905 ~WorldNetDaily: Dan Rather to interview Condit? http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D907 ~WorldNetDaily: Iraqi military still in Jordan http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D902 ~WorldNetDaily: Baylor: Weve resolved home-school snag http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D904 ~WorldNetDaily: Hawaii school board blocks creationism http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D906 >From http://newsmax.com-- ~NewsMax.com: Dems Reject Consumer Nominee http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D897 ~NewsMax.com: U.N. Gun Grabbers at It Again http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D899 ~NewsMax.com: Feds to Sell Seized Cattle http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D901 ~NewsMax.com: Pentagon Plans Base Closings http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D898 ~NewsMax.com: FBI Discounts Chandra Tip http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D900 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DNew In The Directory=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ~ Fight CPS And Win http://iresist.com/go.cfm?I=3D1120 More Info: Information and support for families facing false accusations of= child abuse and neglect. To subscribe to this group, send an email to: iresist_alerts-subscribe@yahoogroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: iresist_alerts-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Please direct all feedback, ideas, suggestions, or news items to info@i...= st.com Website: http://iresist.com Groups Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iresist_alerts =20 Every able bodied man is a member of the militia by constitutional law. Joi= n Today!=20 http://www.icvmmilitia.homestead.com/links.html ------=_NextPart_000_0158_01C11C5F.6D883B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 ---------------------~-->
Small business owners...
Tell us what yo= u=20 think!
http://us= .click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/TySplB/TM
--------------------= -------------------------------------------------~->

 =3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
&n= bsp;     =20 iRESiST.com e-Mail Alert for Friday, August 03=20 2001
          Daily News a= nd=20 Views for the Resistance Movement
       M= ail:=20 info@i...  --  URL= : http://iresist.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

In=20 Today's Alert:

    -5 News=20 Headline(s)

    -The Latest News From Top Independent= =20 Websites

    -1 New Directory=20 Listing(s)

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCurrent News=20 Headlines=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


~  Big = Brother Is Watching
http://iresist.com/go.cfm?I=3D1= 125

More=20 Info: The socialist's dream of constant observation as a means of people co= ntrol=20 is arriving, albeit 17 years behind Orwellian schedule.


~  = So=20 Help Me God Dropped from Senate Oaths
http://iresist.com/go.cfm?I=3D1= 124

More=20 Info: Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy is leaving out the customa= ry=20 "so help me God" when swearing in those who testify before the=20 committee.


~  The Constitution Is The Drug War's Casualty <= BR>http://iresist.com/go.cfm?I=3D1= 123

More=20 Info: In the name of what other cause would conservatives support=20 unconstitutional property confiscations, unconstitutional searches and Orwe= llian=20 Big Brother invasions of privacy?


~  850,000 Children Now=20 Home-Schooled
http://iresist.com/go.cfm?I=3D1= 122

More=20 Info: The number of parents taking direct responsibility for teaching their= =20 children through homeschooling is approaching a million.


~ = The=20 Enemy of your Enemy Isn't Necessarily your Friend
http://iresist.com/go.cfm?I=3D1= 121

More=20 Info: John Ashcroft's willingness to enforce unconstitutional gun laws is o= nly=20 one of his many abuses of the public trust.




News Headlin= es=20 >From Top Independent Websites:


From http://worldnetdaily.com--

~= WorldNetDaily:=20 Sharon scales back peace goals
    http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D90= 3

~WorldNetDaily:=20 Reform Party adopts pro-life platform
    http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D90= 5

~WorldNetDaily:=20 Dan Rather to interview Condit?
    http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D90= 7

~WorldNetDaily:=20 Iraqi military still in Jordan
    http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D90= 2

~WorldNetDaily:=20 Baylor: Weve resolved home-school snag
    http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D90= 4

~WorldNetDaily:=20 Hawaii school board blocks creationism
    http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D90= 6



From=20 http://newsmax.com--

~NewsMax.c= om:=20 Dems Reject Consumer Nominee
    http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D89= 7

~NewsMax.com:=20 U.N. Gun Grabbers at It Again
    http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D89= 9

~NewsMax.com:=20 Feds to Sell Seized Cattle
    http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D90= 1

~NewsMax.com:=20 Pentagon Plans Base Closings
    http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D89= 8

~NewsMax.com:=20 FBI Discounts Chandra Tip
    http://iresist.com/go.cfm?N=3D90= 0


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DNew=20 In The Directory=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


~&= nbsp; Fight CPS And Win
http://iresist.com/go.cfm?I=3D1= 120

More=20 Info: Information and support for families facing false accusations of chil= d=20 abuse and neglect.









To subscribe to t= his=20 group, send an email to:
iresist_alerts-sub= scribe@yahoogroups.com

To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
iresist_alerts-u= nsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Please=20 direct all feedback, ideas, suggestions, or news items to info@i...

Website: http://iresist.com
Groups Home: http://groups.yahoo.c= om/group/iresist_alerts
 
Every able bodied man is a member of the militia by=20 constitutional law. Join Today!
http://www.icvmmil= itia.homestead.com/links.html
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0158_01C11C5F.6D883B40-- From ballyalley@h... Fri Aug 03 23:35:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 4 Aug 2001 06:35:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 41762 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 06:35:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Aug 2001 06:35:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.87) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 06:35:57 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:35:57 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 06:35:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: On recent junk mail Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 23:35:56 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Aug 2001 06:35:57.0015 (UTC) FILETIME=[B7B6CE70:01C11CAF] From: "Adam Trionfo" I will delete these three pieces of junk mail. If this keeps up, I might consider moderating the group. Anyone have any thoughts? Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From solder_guy@m... Sat Aug 04 03:46:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 4 Aug 2001 10:46:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 95746 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 10:46:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 4 Aug 2001 10:46:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail7.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.38) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 10:46:50 -0000 Received: œby mail7.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA05747; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 03:46:50 -0700 Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 03:46:50 -0700 Message-Id: <200108041046.DAA05747@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.33.14] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] On recent junk mail From: "solder_guy Last Name" Thanks for deleting the junk mail .. BTW: I do play my Bally Astrocade .. about once a month .. Great fun .. Wizard, Galaxian, Space Fortress, and Dogpatch when I can find a worthy opponent! :) Rob Mitchell ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From gary@3... Sat Aug 04 11:44:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: gary@g... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 4 Aug 2001 18:44:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 99674 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 18:44:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Aug 2001 18:44:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tuvok.internetsite.com) (198.92.208.74) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 18:44:39 -0000 Received: from ([24.17.234.177]) by tuvok.internetsite.com (MERAK 3.00.130) with ESMTP id 048E177C for ; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 13:52:32 -0500 Reply-To: To: Subject: RE: [ballyalley] On Astrocade playing, collecting and more Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 13:45:20 -0500 Message-ID: <001201c11d15$9d53fb50$0400a8c0@G...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C11CEB.B47DF350" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-From: "Gary Gordon" From: "Gary Gordon" ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C11CEB.B47DF350 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm a player, not a collector. Actually, at age 12, I learned how to program BASIC thanks to the BallyBASIC cart, and I'm still programming to this day - just not on a Bally. My kids play the Bally from time-to-time and I can't help joining in. A year ago my sister-in-law and family stayed with us for a few days. I brought the Bally out and her two sons (ages 8 and 10) were hooked. They thought it was cool that they were playing on a "classic". -----Original Message----- From: Adam Trionfo [mailto:ballyalley@h...] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 3:33 PM To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ballyalley] On Astrocade playing, collecting and more August 3, 2001 I find it very interesting that there are various versions of the Bally/Astrocade, but I would not want to own them all. Also, am I the only collector/player that does not care about condition, as long as an item works? I've never understood collectors that buy early versions of hardware or software (especially, buggy early prototypes when a finished release is available). I don't understand it in game collecting, or any other hobby. I would rather have a CD than a record, a re-issued book over a first edition, and any version of a console that works and allows me to play the intended cartridges over a console that just has a different revision motherboard and dust cover. It isn't just about the cost either, a non-boxed, beat-up item is just so much easier to get. I am in the minority though, and it took me a very long time to understand that I am. When I hear that someone has a new, mint-condition, boxed X machine, or Y software, I wonder why it is still shrink-wrapped. Does the owner have two-- one for collecting and one to play? Usually not. I have been contacted by people asking for Sale/Trade advice. "Is it worth trading this Atari item for this Bally item? Mine is boxed, but the other isn't. What should I do? Is it worth it?" I never have problems like this. I don't think any pure player does. Either I want it or I don't. If I'm tired of what I have then I usually get rid of it. I try not to look at the collector's perspective, but rather from my own player's point of view. For instance, from a pure player's point of view, VCS "Combat" might be an EXCELLENT trade for "Chase the Chuckwagon." Of course, no such pure player exists (too bad) I try to find a happy medium between collector and player. For those of you that are aware of the research into the Astrocade that I am doing for various reasons, do not worry. I would not omit any historical information from Astrocade related articles that I write. While I would not care to own all of these pieces of historial hardware, I know that others do. I knew that when I wrote the article on the UV-1 off-shoot of the Astrocade that suddenly people would want one. Once the information on the UV-1 was put out, people would try to "save" the UV-1 machine from being lost. I'm glad. What I don't understand is why so many collectors are willing to sit back and collect what they can find. Any collecotor willing to do a little footwork and fact-finding would eventually be able to find and buy a UV-1 computer. So what's the hold-up? Finally, how many people reading this PLAY the Astrocade, and how many people only COLLECT it? Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C11CEB.B47DF350 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm a=20 player, not a collector.  Actually, at age 12, I learned how to progra= m=20 BASIC thanks to the BallyBASIC cart, and I'm still programming to this= day=20 - just not on a Bally.
 
My=20 kids play the Bally from time-to-time and I can't help joining in.&nbs= p;=20 A year ago my sister-in-law and family stayed with us for a few days.&= nbsp;=20 I brought the Bally out and her two sons (ages 8 and 10) were hooked.&= nbsp;=20 They thought it was cool that they were playing on a=20 "classic".
-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Trionfo=20 [mailto:ballyalley@h...]
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 3= :33=20 PM
To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ballyalle= y] On=20 Astrocade playing, collecting and more

August 3,= =20 2001

I find it very interesting that there are various versions of= the=20
Bally/Astrocade, but I would not want to own them all.  Also, am= I=20 the only
collector/player that does not care about condition, as long= as=20 an item
works?

I've never understood collectors that buy early= =20 versions of hardware or
software (especially, buggy early prototypes = when=20 a finished release is
available).  I don't understand it in game= =20 collecting, or any other hobby. 
I would rather have a CD than a= =20 record, a re-issued book over a first
edition, and any version of a=20 console that works and allows me to play the
intended cartridges over= a=20 console that just has a different revision
motherboard and dust=20 cover.   It isn't just about the cost either, a
non-boxed,= =20 beat-up item is just so much easier to get.  I am in the minority=20
though, and it took me a very long time to understand that I=20 am.

When I hear that someone has a new, mint-condition, boxed X=20 machine, or Y
software, I wonder why it is still shrink-wrapped. = ;=20 Does the owner have
two-- one for collecting and one to play? =20 Usually not.

I have been contacted by people asking for Sale/Trade= =20 advice.  "Is it worth
trading this Atari item for this Bally ite= m?=20 Mine is boxed, but the other
isn't.  What should I do?  Is = it=20 worth it?"  I never have problems like
this.  I don't think= any=20 pure player does.  Either I want it or I don't.  If
I'm tir= ed of=20 what I have then I usually get rid of it.  I try not to look at
= the=20 collector's perspective, but rather from my own player's point of view.&n= bsp;=20
For instance, from a pure player's point of view, VCS "Combat" might = be an=20
EXCELLENT trade for "Chase the Chuckwagon."  Of course, no such = pure=20 player
exists (too bad)  I try to find a happy medium between=20 collector and player.

For those of you that are aware of the resea= rch=20 into the Astrocade that I am
doing for various reasons, do not=20 worry.  I would not omit any historical
information from Astroca= de=20 related articles that I write.

While I would not care to own all o= f=20 these pieces of historial hardware, I
know that others do.  I kn= ew=20 that when I wrote the article on the UV-1
off-shoot of the Astrocade = that=20 suddenly people would want one.  Once the
information on the UV-= 1 was=20 put out, people would try to "save" the UV-1
machine from being=20 lost.  I'm glad.  What I don't understand is why so many=20
collectors are willing to sit back and collect what they can find.&nb= sp;=20 Any
collecotor willing to do a little footwork and fact-finding would= =20 eventually
be able to find and buy a UV-1 computer.  So what's t= he=20 hold-up?

Finally, how many people reading this PLAY the Astrocade,= and=20 how many
people only COLLECT it?

Adam=20 Trionfo

__________________________________________________________= _______
Get=20 your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.as= p


Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C11CEB.B47DF350-- From lance@a... Sat Aug 04 13:03:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 4 Aug 2001 20:03:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 50107 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 20:03:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Aug 2001 20:03:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO peer2-va.mail.home.com) (65.14.223.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 20:03:45 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.100.237.28]) by peer2-va.mail.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010804200344.XNOZ2475.peer2-va.mail.home.com@a...> for ; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 13:03:44 -0700 Message-ID: <3B6C521D.1090304@a...> Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 15:50:53 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] On recent junk mail References: <200108041046.DAA05747@m...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" Ok, I don't play it that much... But I do play it about once a year, or whenever I get a good excuse. Like adding stuff to the html faq. :) solder_guy Last Name wrote: > Thanks for deleting the junk mail .. > > BTW: I do play my Bally Astrocade .. about once a month .. Great fun .. Wizard, Galaxian, Space Fortress, and Dogpatch when I can find a worthy opponent! :) > > Rob Mitchell > From ward.shrake@w... Sun Aug 05 11:33:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 5 Aug 2001 18:33:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 3202 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 18:33:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2001 18:33:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 18:33:16 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.2.101] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Aug 2001 18:33:16 -0000 Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 18:33:12 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: On recent junk mail Message-ID: <9kk3h8+dk6c@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 591 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.149 From: "Ward Shrake" Moderate! Absolutely. Get rid of that annoyingly off-topic garbage. I'd prefer it if you had the power to kick jerks like that off the board, entirely. It is obvious they won't add anything useful, so.... Ward Shrake --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > I will delete these three pieces of junk mail. If this keeps up, I might > consider moderating the group. Anyone have any thoughts? > > Adam Trionfo > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ward.shrake@w... Sun Aug 05 12:31:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 5 Aug 2001 19:31:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 93813 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 19:31:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 5 Aug 2001 19:31:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.92) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 19:31:30 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.112] by jk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Aug 2001 19:31:29 -0000 Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:31:29 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: On Astrocade playing, collecting and more Message-ID: <9kk6uh+75ad@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3864 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.90 From: "Ward Shrake" My two cents worth, and change.... Over the years, I have come to feel that I do not understand the reasoning or the motivation of "pure collectors". And I honestly do not think that I ever will? The concept of owning something that has never once been used, and storing it in a safe or vault, where no one but the owner can see it, seems like an abomination to me? You may as well just bury it in the backyard? This stuff was meant to be used, or at least displayed publicly. It was created by people who had a deep-seated need to create something of artistic beauty, and intended to be owned and used by like-minded people who would appreciate it. How a person could ignore the actual artistry of the creation itself, but go "gaa-gaa" over a slight, usually unintended variation in the items' packaging, is just beyond me? I don't understand that? It gets much harder for me to grasp, considering that I did work in a packaging plant at one point in my life, and that such things slipped by all of the time. Stuff like that just made me feel bad for the consumer, who was getting "ripped-off" in a sense, or was not getting the full effect that the original artist had intended to give them? This is admittedly a stretch, but if the new owner took one of those packages out into the parking lot, and accidentally ran it over with their automobile, should that make it more "unique" and therefore valuable? What about if someone that produced the copies, from the master original, ran it over with a forklift back in the warehouse? Nobody else would have one exactly like it, right? Why would one of these rate as "trash," while the other goes up in overall value? From the point of view of Quality Assurance, they're both garbage, right? Granted it's an extreme example, but most things that qualify as a reason to make something more valuable, are arguably just production flaws. (I'd go so far as to say that the simple fact that some games were ever produced qualifies as a production flaw, but that's another story! Some artwork just has more artistry invested in creating it?) I won't beat the subject to death. That's just my own opinion on it. The "pure collector" mindset has turned me off, and made me run away, more than once. I have recently begun to think that one reason I did what I did -- archiving various game system's ROM library -- was that I could not understand or properly deal with the mentality of such people. It was "no fun" hanging around with people that seemed to be passionate about the subject matter, but were 100% foreign in their thinking, upon closer inspection? Especially if they were of the idea that money gave them the right to deprive all others of being able to enjoy the beauty of these objects, created by hands other than their own? I think that's one big reason I jumped into the fray, and tried to make the software library of four obscure systems more accessible? To be sure that "collectors" couldn't lock them in a vault somewhere, and deprive others of their beauty. Almost like trying to rescue rare books from a crowd of people coming down the street, burning books? I think that as long as a person is willing to "share their toys" with others, at least in terms of photographs or passing on stories they have heard about the creators of particular items, that's fine. Those type of collectors have my warmest admiration and respect, even if I can't quite grasp their internal rules and/or sense of value. I like Glenn's point-of-view, that some of us are best described as "temporary curators". I like the term itself, quite a bit! I may even adopt it, to go along with my "Digital Archaeology" tag? I've never seen myself as anything but a temporary middle-man, in all of my archiving efforts, so the phrase has great resonance for me? Ward Shrake From ballyalley@h... Sun Aug 05 12:58:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 5 Aug 2001 19:58:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 1172 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 19:58:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2001 19:58:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.135) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 19:58:28 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 12:58:28 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:58:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Identifying the Bally/Astrocade On-Board ROM Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 12:58:28 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Aug 2001 19:58:28.0587 (UTC) FILETIME=[FEB35BB0:01C11DE8] From: "Adam Trionfo" Identifying the Bally/Astrocade On-Board ROM -------------------------------------------- By Adam Trionfo There are at least three different versions of the Bally/Astrocade On-Board ROM. Two models are nick-named after a memory location that yields certain results that make it easy to ascertain which On-Board ROM is being used, while the other is known by the color of the Astrocade itself. These three different versions are: * 3164 - CALL(3164) yields "Game Over" - Date "1977" * 3159 - CALL(3164) yields "Over" - Date "1978" * White Astrocade - Acts like 3159 but says 1977 The reason this matters at all is because of some possible compatibility problems. I know of no cartridges that will not work because of this, but some tape games do have problems because of this. I have not run into any compatibility problems myself, but it is possible that some problems may arise today; knowing which ROM you are using may become important (especially when you are using an actual Astrocade). Using the following program from the ARCADIAN newsletter (Vol. 5, No. 3, Pg. 49, Jan. 14, 1983) I have been able to identify which version the Astrocade emulator is using: CLEAR;%(19904)=-43;%(19906)=12341;%(19908)=27651;%(19910)=3164;%(19912)=-13871;CALL19904 The Astrocade emulator prints "OVER". This means that the emulator is using the 3159 On-board ROM, which is the most widely distributed ROM. For those that are interested, I have taken a screen shot of the Astrocade with the BASIC program on the screen and one after the program is run (showing "OVER"). The pictures are: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/astrocade_on-board_prog.gif http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/3159_configuration.gif I’d like to thank Michael White for informing me of the ROM differences with the White Astrocade. -- August 5, 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From rcolbert1@h... Sun Aug 05 16:04:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rcolbert1@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 5 Aug 2001 23:04:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 21887 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 23:04:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2001 23:04:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.82) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 23:04:47 -0000 Received: from bob ([24.7.37.218]) by femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010805230442.TQRY12480.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@b...> for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:04:42 -0700 To: Subject: Remastering of tapes Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:12:03 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal From: "Bob Colbert" Hi, I just wanted to updated everyone on my effort to remaster Bally tapes. I started this project a few months ago and then stopped working on it for a while. Well, I'm back to it now. I've rewritten the code that extracts the digital data from a .wav file to be much more reliable. I'm currently working on writing that data back to a .wav file (which will be digitally perfect) using C++. I'll probably have a working version in a week or so. Bob > -----Original Message----- > From: Adam Trionfo [mailto:ballyalley@h...] > Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 2:58 PM > To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [ballyalley] Identifying the Bally/Astrocade On-Board ROM > > > Identifying the Bally/Astrocade On-Board ROM > -------------------------------------------- > By Adam Trionfo > > There are at least three different versions of the > Bally/Astrocade On-Board > ROM. Two models are nick-named after a memory location that > yields certain > results that make it easy to ascertain which On-Board ROM is being used, > while the other is known by the color of the Astrocade itself. > These three > different versions are: > > * 3164 - CALL(3164) yields "Game Over" - Date "1977" > * 3159 - CALL(3164) yields "Over" - Date "1978" > * White Astrocade - Acts like 3159 but says 1977 > > The reason this matters at all is because of some possible compatibility > problems. I know of no cartridges that will not work because of > this, but > some tape games do have problems because of this. I have not run > into any > compatibility problems myself, but it is possible that some problems may > arise today; knowing which ROM you are using may become important > (especially when you are using an actual Astrocade). > > Using the following program from the ARCADIAN newsletter (Vol. 5, > No. 3, Pg. > 49, Jan. 14, 1983) I have been able to identify which version the > Astrocade > emulator is using: > > CLEAR;%(19904)=-43;%(19906)=12341;%(19908)=27651;%(19910)=3164;%(1 > 9912)=-13871;CALL19904 > > The Astrocade emulator prints "OVER". This means that the > emulator is using > the 3159 On-board ROM, which is the most widely distributed ROM. > > For those that are interested, I have taken a screen shot of the > Astrocade > with the BASIC program on the screen and one after the program is run > (showing "OVER"). > > The pictures are: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/astrocade_on-board_prog.gif > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/3159_configuration.gif > > > I’d like to thank Michael White for informing me of the ROM > differences with > the White Astrocade. > > -- August 5, 2001 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From palazzol@h... Sun Aug 05 17:28:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: palazzol@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 6 Aug 2001 00:28:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 64251 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 00:28:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Aug 2001 00:28:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail26.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.16) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 00:28:12 -0000 Received: from pagels ([24.2.73.141]) by femail26.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010806002811.VLHZ9905.femail26.sdc1.sfba.home.com@p...> for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 17:28:11 -0700 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 20:27:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Identifying the Bally/Astrocade On-Board ROM Reply-to: palazzol@h... Message-ID: <3B6DAC3A.24552.5156869@l...> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) From: "Frank Palazzolo" Adam, This is interesting stuff! FWIW I am interested in getting dumps of the 2 1977 versions, to analyze and test with MESS. I've only played around with the 1978 version. It should be very easy to identify possible incompatibilities after comparing the disassembly listings. I did notice that the listing in the Nutting Manual is slightly different than the 1978 dump. Also, if someone has one of these working models, but doesn't want it opened up - email me and maybe I can help work out a non-invasive method. One idea would be to use a basic program which dumps the rom to audio - and then capture the output on a VCR tape for later processing and reconstruction. Thanks, Frank > * 3164 - CALL(3164) yields "Game Over" - Date "1977" > * 3159 - CALL(3164) yields "Over" - Date "1978" > * White Astrocade - Acts like 3159 but says 1977 From lance@a... Sun Aug 05 20:08:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 6 Aug 2001 03:08:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 40953 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 03:08:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Aug 2001 03:08:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail1.rdc1.on.home.com) (24.2.9.88) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 03:08:20 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.100.237.28]) by femail1.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010806030819.ZWUD463.femail1.rdc1.on.home.com@a...> for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 20:08:19 -0700 Message-ID: <3B6E071E.8000006@a...> Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 22:55:26 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Identifying the Bally/Astrocade On-Board ROM References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" This is very interesting! Re: White 'Astrocade' As I've recently noticed that all the pictures of the keyboard add under are shown with a white 'Bally Computer System' on top! (Or at least all I've seen Arcadian Feb 19 1979 page 29 & a full colour glossy that went with a white unit sold on ebay. (Was just looking through ebay and it was gone the next day :( ) I wounder if there is a connection... From ballyalley@h... Sun Aug 05 22:42:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 6 Aug 2001 05:42:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 81829 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 05:42:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Aug 2001 05:42:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.127) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 05:42:37 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 22:42:37 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 05:42:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Bally/Astrocade FAQ 3.0 released Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 22:42:37 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Aug 2001 05:42:37.0663 (UTC) FILETIME=[9993EEF0:01C11E3A] From: "Adam Trionfo" August 5, 2001 Rob Mitchell and I worked on updating the Bally/Astrocade FAQ before summer. Now that I have worked out the details with Lance, I am releasing version 3.0 of the FAQ. It needs polish, details, and frankly, some hard work, but it is an excellent introduction to anyone that doesn't know about the Astrocade. Several areas of the FAQ have been updated and/or fixed by Rob. Take note of his changes to the joystick and video section. This FAQ will not reflect changes that Lance makes to the html version, nor should you expect the html version to reflect changes made to the ASCII version. The ASCII version of this FAQ will be updated from time to time, but I expect it to stay static for several months at least. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From incense@q... Mon Aug 06 08:11:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: incense@q... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 6 Aug 2001 15:11:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 50482 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 15:10:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Aug 2001 15:10:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO q4.quik.com) (216.176.28.1) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 15:10:58 -0000 Received: from victorip (ip075.nwphx.quik.com [216.176.37.75]) by q4.quik.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f76F4Ao137284 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:04:10 -0700 Message-ID: <001801c11e8a$66111440$4b25b0d8@v...> To: References: <9kk3h8+dk6c@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: On recent junk mail Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:04:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C11E4E.5BCB0A40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "gpp" ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C11E4E.5BCB0A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't call me a jerk - you dick head! Incense ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ward Shrake=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 11:33 AM Subject: [ballyalley] Re: On recent junk mail Moderate! Absolutely. Get rid of that annoyingly off-topic garbage.=20 I'd prefer it if you had the power to kick jerks like that off the=20 board, entirely. It is obvious they won't add anything useful, so.... Ward Shrake --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > I will delete these three pieces of junk mail. If this keeps up, I=20 might=20 > consider moderating the group. Anyone have any thoughts? >=20 > Adam Trionfo >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at=20 http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C11E4E.5BCB0A40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Don't call me a jerk - you dick head! =20 Incense
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 Ward Shrake
To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 11:3= 3=20 AM
Subject: [ballyalley] Re: On recen= t junk=20 mail

Moderate! Absolutely. Get rid of that annoyingly off-t= opic=20 garbage.
I'd prefer it if you had the power to kick jerks like that o= ff=20 the
board, entirely. It is obvious they won't add anything useful,=20 so....

Ward Shrake


--- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" <<= A=20 href=3D"mailto:ballyalley@h...">ballyalley@h...> wrote:
> I = will=20 delete these three pieces of junk mail.  If this keeps up, I
mig= ht=20
> consider moderating the group.  Anyone have any=20 thoughts?
>
> Adam Trionfo
>
>=20 _________________________________________________________________
>= Get=20 your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.as= p


Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C11E4E.5BCB0A40-- From spudboy@o... Mon Aug 06 08:51:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: spudboy@o... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 6 Aug 2001 15:51:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 46862 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 15:51:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Aug 2001 15:51:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net) (167.206.5.10) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 15:51:42 -0000 Received: from MichaelMarkowski (ool-18bdb0f0.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.176.240]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with SMTP id <0GHN0055NKZU2K@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 11:43:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 11:44:34 -0400 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: On recent junk mail To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <000901c11f57$db3cdf60$f0b0bd18@M...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_d8gF7bz2UauBw5vhqbGFCQ)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <9kk3h8+dk6c@e...> <001801c11e8a$66111440$4b25b0d8@v...> From: spudboy --Boundary_(ID_d8gF7bz2UauBw5vhqbGFCQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Don't call me a jerk - you dick head! Incense If you have nothing intelligent to say about the bally astrocade, don't bother posting anything. This is a BALLY newsgroup and not a I'm childlike so please be my friend newsgroup. -Mike --Boundary_(ID_d8gF7bz2UauBw5vhqbGFCQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Don't call me a jerk - you dick head!  Incense
 
If you have nothing intelligent to say about the bally astrocade, don't bother posting anything.  This is a BALLY newsgroup and not a I'm childlike so please be my friend newsgroup. 
 
-Mike
--Boundary_(ID_d8gF7bz2UauBw5vhqbGFCQ)-- From slapdash@e... Mon Aug 06 10:30:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 6 Aug 2001 17:30:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 55366 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 17:30:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Aug 2001 17:30:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.enteract.com) (207.229.143.4) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 17:30:10 -0000 Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (shell-1.enteract.com [207.229.143.40]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F35A26955 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:30:09 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:30:09 -0500 (CDT) To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: On recent junk mail In-Reply-To: <001801c11e8a$66111440$4b25b0d8@v...> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: slapdash On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, gpp wrote: > Don't call me a jerk - you dick head! Incense Talk about making the point for you, eh Ward? Look "Incense", you got off light by Ward's choice of words. This is a forum for something very specific, i.e. the Bally Astrocade. You posted spam, more than once, and now you try to insult someone who's done more for the hobby than you've probably done for anything or anyone. Either contribute something of value, or get lost. Now, to keep this on target somewhat, lest I be a hypocrite, I'm looking forward to Bob's efforts regarding converting tapes to WAVs. I have a whole bunch of tapes thanks to Brett Bilbrey, and I haven't had time to sort them or dig out my system to try them out, but there's a lot of stuff there -- some may be tapes of type-in programs, which would save some efforts in preserving them, and some may be tapes of unreleased stuff. I think I have a list of the tapes I have somewhere, but I can't even find that. Perhaps it's on my old computer... I'll try to find it "one of these days", as I promised Rob Mitchell over a year ago (eek). > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ward Shrake > To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 11:33 AM > Subject: [ballyalley] Re: On recent junk mail > > Moderate! Absolutely. Get rid of that annoyingly off-topic garbage. > I'd prefer it if you had the power to kick jerks like that off the > board, entirely. It is obvious they won't add anything useful, so.... > > Ward Shrake > > --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > > I will delete these three pieces of junk mail. If this keeps up, I > might > > consider moderating the group. Anyone have any thoughts? > > > > Adam Trionfo //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From lance@a... Mon Aug 06 10:43:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 6 Aug 2001 17:43:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 98286 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 17:43:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Aug 2001 17:43:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail31.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.21) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 17:43:11 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.100.237.28]) by femail31.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010806174306.UXJO25528.femail31.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:43:06 -0700 Message-ID: <3B6ED425.3010600@a...> Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 13:30:13 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: html faq updated Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" Some early updates to the html faq are now available on line. http://www.alteeve.com/~lance/Ballyfaq.html This is still a work in progress, and not as expanded as the text faq...yet. This will remain in a 2.x state for a while. Any questions, comments and even comparisons are welcome. Lance F. Squire P.S. I wish to thank Adam Trionfo & Bob Mitchell for all there work on the text faq, and creating this meeting place. From lance@a... Mon Aug 06 10:47:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 6 Aug 2001 17:47:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 8005 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 17:46:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Aug 2001 17:46:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail4.rdc1.on.home.com) (24.2.9.91) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 17:46:27 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.100.237.28]) by femail4.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010806174626.HIYX20601.femail4.rdc1.on.home.com@a...> for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:46:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3B6ED4EC.9060003@a...> Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 13:33:32 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Oops! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" That's ROB Mitchell. Sorry! From lance@a... Mon Aug 06 11:05:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 6 Aug 2001 18:05:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 51315 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 18:05:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Aug 2001 18:05:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail4.rdc1.on.home.com) (24.2.9.91) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 18:05:12 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.100.237.28]) by femail4.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010806180512.HJAS20601.femail4.rdc1.on.home.com@a...> for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:05:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3B6ED952.3070900@a...> Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 13:52:18 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Videocade label maintaniance? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" On a purely curatorial note: The label on my Astro Battle has fallen off. Does anyone know how to clean the dried up glue off and re attach? From cybpunks@h... Wed Aug 08 15:37:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 8 Aug 2001 22:37:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 83675 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2001 22:37:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Aug 2001 22:37:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.34) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Aug 2001 22:37:12 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.104] by mo.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Aug 2001 22:37:12 -0000 Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:37:08 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Remastering of tapes Message-ID: <9kseuk+k920@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 254 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.78 From: "Glenn Saunders" --- In ballyalley@y..., "Bob Colbert" wrote: > I'll probably have a working version in a week or so. Excellent news. This is an important part of making an Astrocade CD project a reality. This will handle both tape formats, right? From ballyalley@h... Wed Aug 08 17:02:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 9 Aug 2001 00:02:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 43861 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2001 23:58:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Aug 2001 23:58:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.73) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Aug 2001 23:58:48 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 16:58:48 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 08 Aug 2001 23:58:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: CGExpo, who's going to be there? Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 16:58:48 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Aug 2001 23:58:48.0727 (UTC) FILETIME=[11035A70:01C12066] From: "Adam Trionfo" August 8, 2001 I am going to be at the Classic Gaming Expo this coming weekend (August 11 and 12). Anyone else on the list going to be there? Maybe we can have the "First Annual Astrocade Message Board Breakfast in Las Vegas." Or at least meet and say hello. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Wed Aug 08 17:27:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 9 Aug 2001 00:27:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 4435 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 00:27:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Aug 2001 00:27:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.228) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 00:27:47 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:27:47 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 00:27:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Remastering of 2000 baud tapes Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 17:27:47 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Aug 2001 00:27:47.0762 (UTC) FILETIME=[1D8F0920:01C1206A] From: "Adam Trionfo" August 8, 2001 In reference to Glenn's question of whether Bob Colbert's program "handle[ing] both [Bally BASIC, 300 and 2000 baud,] tape formats..." I am looking forward to a program that can remaster ANYTHING right about now. If it handles the 2000 baud format at all then I’ll be happy. If it can remaster a 300 baud tape too then I will be astounded. Showing people the 300 baud games in the old Bally BASIC may put them off right now (for those that have the interface and can load the games). It isn’t that the games aren’t as good, but even the same exact code runs slower in the older Bally BASIC. A pre-fetch function was added to AstroBASIC and it makes the games run a little faster, and in most cases more tolerable. The BASIC programs of the era (1978-1980) did understand the limitations of the language and most of them were not trying to make failed imitations of arcade games. Since many of the tape games were at some point released in the 2000 baud format, it only makes sense to remaster those versions first. In addition, now that we know that most any of those games can be loaded to cartridge (with work), it makes even more sense to have them distributed that way too. Yes, I know, in the long run, to be thorough, both tape formats need to be done. For now, being able to remaster even some tapes will be a huge step in the right direction. I expect that only more good can follow. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ward.shrake@w... Wed Aug 08 20:13:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 9 Aug 2001 03:13:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 98211 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 03:13:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Aug 2001 03:13:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 03:13:21 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.104] by hh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Aug 2001 03:13:21 -0000 Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 03:13:18 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: CGExpo, who's going to be there? Message-ID: <9ksv4e+dibl@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 806 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.165 From: "Ward Shrake" Adam knows this already, but for the rest of you folks... I (Ward) won't be at CGE this year, unfortunately. Maybe next year? But I am going to be sending at least one, probably two copies of the Bally Astrocade multicart, with everything that has been archived so far, included on the onboard EPROM chip. If nothing else, people will get to see the cart in person, check it out, and see some rare games that don't often see the light of day? Sales will most likely be a reality after the show ends, but I don't plan to have any extras up for sale, during the show itself. The ones I'm sending will be for demo purposes, live, running on an Astrocade. My thanks to Adam Trionfo and Geoff Voight for helping me show this off at the expo, since I can't be there in person this year! Ward Shrake From rcolbert1@h... Thu Aug 09 05:46:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: retroware@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 9 Aug 2001 12:46:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 21558 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 12:46:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Aug 2001 12:46:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13804.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.14) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 12:46:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20010809124638.88440.qmail@w...> Received: from [12.145.81.4] by web13804.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 05:46:38 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 05:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Remastering of 2000 baud tapes To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-From: Bob Colbert From: Bob Colbert I was going to post an update this morning anyway, so this is a great thread to put it in! I was able to finally remaster a 2000 baud tape, that is: 1) read the .wav file and create a .bin file and 2) read the .bin file and create a working .wav file. That was very rewarding because there are a lot of steps necessary, and only when they were all completed could I actually test a remastered .wav file. So far this has been limited to standard Basic games. I have the game "Chicken" (or something like that) which loads, but hangs when the message "Please Stand By" appears. This is due to the fact that once the Basic progam loads and starts running, it then loads more data. My remastering program stops reading after it has read in the Basic portion of the tape. No real problem, it's just that I didn't expect more data to follow and it was 11:30 P.M. when I discovered this and I get up at 4:45 A.M. -- needless to say I didn't feel like working on it much more last night. What these developments mean in the long run is that we need to develop some sort of format for the .bin file, probably involving a file header, to indicate what is included. Once I determine the format of the next section of the tape, I will publish the information here and on my website and we, as a group, can discuss a file format. It's one of those things that, if not properly planned, can cause headaches in the future. It will also be helpful for emulator authors to be able to "load" the tape images easily. Regarding the 300 buad format. I haven't looked at it yet, but it shouldn't pose a problem. The new .wav -> binary routine I wrote this week seems very flexible... BTW, I'm looking forward to meeting both Adam, Glenn and whoever else is attending CGE. Look for me, I'll be the geeky looking guy with an Atari shirt on :^) Bob --- Adam Trionfo wrote: > August 8, 2001 > > In reference to Glenn's question of whether Bob > Colbert's program > "handle[ing] both [Bally BASIC, 300 and 2000 baud,] > tape formats..." > > I am looking forward to a program that can remaster > ANYTHING right about > now. If it handles the 2000 baud format at all then > I’ll be happy. If it > can remaster a 300 baud tape too then I will be > astounded. > > Showing people the 300 baud games in the old Bally > BASIC may put them off > right now (for those that have the interface and can > load the games). It > isn’t that the games aren’t as good, but even the > same exact code runs > slower in the older Bally BASIC. A pre-fetch > function was added to > AstroBASIC and it makes the games run a little > faster, and in most cases > more tolerable. The BASIC programs of the era > (1978-1980) did understand > the limitations of the language and most of them > were not trying to make > failed imitations of arcade games. > > Since many of the tape games were at some point > released in the 2000 baud > format, it only makes sense to remaster those > versions first. In addition, > now that we know that most any of those games can be > loaded to cartridge > (with work), it makes even more sense to have them > distributed that way too. > > Yes, I know, in the long run, to be thorough, both > tape formats need to be > done. For now, being able to remaster even some > tapes will be a huge step > in the right direction. I expect that only more > good can follow. > > Adam Trionfo > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From tfrevor@y... Tue Aug 14 23:09:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: tfrevor@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 15 Aug 2001 06:08:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 73634 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 06:08:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Aug 2001 06:08:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web11704.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.172.70) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 06:08:59 -0000 Message-ID: <20010815060858.56314.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.7.24.125] by web11704.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:08:58 PDT Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: [ballyalley] On Astrocade playing, collecting and more To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001201c11d15$9d53fb50$0400a8c0@G...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Thomas Revor > Finally, how many people reading this PLAY the > Astrocade, and how many > people only COLLECT it? Well, actually I'm a little of both. I own a Bally, and would love to be playing it, but have a problem with the video output. And since I'm not an electronics engineer, I don't even want to hazard a guess at fixing it. However, you can be sure that if the opportunity ever arises, I'll be getting it fixed and playing Artillery Duel and Checkmate once again. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From jeffgmr@b... Thu Aug 16 08:21:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeffgmr@b... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 16 Aug 2001 15:21:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 4482 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2001 15:19:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Aug 2001 15:19:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imf07bis.bellsouth.net) (205.152.58.147) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Aug 2001 15:19:57 -0000 Received: from [208.60.254.114] by imf07bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010816152051.IMJZ5063.imf07bis.bellsouth.net@[208.60.254.114]> for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:20:51 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: jeffgmr@m... (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20010815060858.56314.qmail@w...> References: <20010815060858.56314.qmail@w...> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:53:12 -0500 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] On Astrocade playing, collecting and more Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" From: Jeff Rothkopf > > Finally, how many people reading this PLAY the >> Astrocade, and how many > > people only COLLECT it? Me, I've been more of a closet collector than a player. However, I did play the Pacm...er....Muncher at CGE and I must say, Atari should have been paying better attention..... ;-) -- -- ** Director of Higher Standards Tutorial & Educational Specialists ** Tutor for SAT, GRE, LSAT, GMAT, SSAT, PSAT, TOEFL, CLAST, HSCT, CLEP, SAT2, Writing, History, Math, Statistics, Study Skills ** Songwriter, Screenwriter, Playwright, Novelist ** College Instructor & Psychologist (Ph.D from University of Miami). ** Winner of the 1998 Tropic Hunt (8-) ** Collector of Adventurevision; Atari 2600, 5200, 7800; Bally; Colecovision; Fairchild; Intellivision; Odyssey; Microvision; TI99, Virtual Boy & Vectrex games, plus other classic videogame & computer items. I even buy video game boxes, manuals, & magazines, plus some handhelds. Buy or trade. Will also sell some of my extras. IMPORTANT: When my workload gets heavy, I sometimes get delayed in responding to e-mail. Feel free to send gentle reminder messages if you don't hear back from me after a couple of days. I'll also provide upon request my home telephone number so you can contact me directly. From ward.shrake@w... Fri Aug 17 16:52:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 17 Aug 2001 23:52:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 86032 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 23:52:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Aug 2001 23:52:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.81) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 23:52:40 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.65] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 17 Aug 2001 23:52:40 -0000 Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:52:37 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Project update: Bally multicart Message-ID: <9lkao5+6tvh@e...> In-Reply-To: <9jalvn+eiaj@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 923 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.64 From: "Ward Shrake" Just the zillionth minor multicart update... I went to Adam's house yesterday evening, one last time before he moves. We B.S.'d, and he allowed me to archive seven more carts. He and Mike White are still working on THE definitive cart list, but as far as we all know, I was told yesterday that I should have all of the ROM images now, for anything that was originally intended to be a cartridge. (Not cartridge-ized tapes.) I will be working soon on my own "ROM image" list, and doing the usual last-minute details related to archiving, over the next few days. As to all of the previous FAQ-type info about the multicart, it will soon officially be out of date. I am going to start writing a FAQ just about the multicarts I am making for the Emerson and Bally game systems. I will either post it in the files area, or will put up a link to it, and update it somewhere on one of my own web sites. Ward Shrake From ward.shrake@w... Fri Aug 17 17:02:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 18 Aug 2001 00:02:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 5010 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2001 00:02:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Aug 2001 00:02:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 Aug 2001 00:02:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.69] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Aug 2001 00:02:04 -0000 Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:02:04 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: An item that only a nerd like me could love Message-ID: <9lkb9s+hil9@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 886 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.64 From: "Ward Shrake" While I was over at Adam's house yesterday, archiving stuff, he showed me a unique item I thought was just too cool. Mike White had sent it to him, to either keep for himself or to find it a good home. (I think it found one?! Adam was kind enough to pass it on to me.) Basically, it is an artifact that would be a head-scratcher, for most of the gaming public. But it will be a treasured item, for this nerd! I have plans to frame it, and hang it in my home. What is it? The original hand-made PC board layout plans, made by one of the third-party companies that made cartridges for the Astrocade. In the near future sometime, I plan to write something up about it, and post it here, publicly. That's what Adam made me promise to do, to prove it had gone to a properly appreciative home. :-) Thanks again, to both gentlemen, for giving me such a cool thing?! Ward Shrake From ward.shrake@w... Sat Aug 18 02:33:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 18 Aug 2001 09:33:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 65386 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2001 09:33:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 18 Aug 2001 09:33:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.83) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 Aug 2001 09:33:53 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.118] by ck.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Aug 2001 09:33:53 -0000 Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:33:49 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Project update: Bally multicart Message-ID: <9llcpt+lao1@e...> In-Reply-To: <9lkao5+6tvh@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 556 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.185 From: "Ward Shrake" Here is the link to my multicart FAQ... http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.txt Note that it isn't a technical document, describing how to make a multicart. Plenty of those already exist, and I've listed links to good articles on the web, in previous posts. This link here is just a FAQ on the details of how I've decided to create and sell my carts. If anyone wants more info, you have my e-mail listed below? Again, if anyone wants ROM images, ask nicely, and I'll see what I can do. Ward Shrake e-mail link: ward.shrake@w... From ward.shrake@w... Sat Aug 18 13:15:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 18 Aug 2001 20:15:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 23088 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2001 20:15:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Aug 2001 20:15:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.66) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 Aug 2001 20:15:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.104] by c9.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Aug 2001 20:15:42 -0000 Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 20:15:40 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Project update: Bally multicart Message-ID: <9lmidc+kss4@e...> In-Reply-To: <9llcpt+lao1@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 174 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.83 From: "Ward Shrake" Here is the direct link to the list I keep online, that shows what has or has not been been archived, so far.... http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/ballyrom.htm Ward Shrake From ward.shrake@w... Sat Aug 18 13:41:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 18 Aug 2001 20:41:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 34905 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2001 20:41:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Aug 2001 20:41:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 Aug 2001 20:41:18 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.127] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Aug 2001 20:41:18 -0000 Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 20:41:16 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Identifying the Bally/Astrocade On-Board ROM Message-ID: <9lmjtc+8nvf@e...> In-Reply-To: <3B6E071E.8000006@a...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1481 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.83 From: "Ward Shrake" I feel that a few of the ROM image names for the Astrocade's library should be altered, so that future confusion is minimized? (In fact, I'm making the changes as I archive things, and am really just saying here in public, that I'm doing it.) Any questions about why I'm doing it, or which ones I have already changed, can be addressed to me by e- mail or on this message board. The BIOS used in the Astrocade was changed; that's a biggie I need to mention here. Now that we know there are multiple BIOS' out there, it only makes sense to try to identify which one is which, at a glance. The old file name was "ASTRO.BIN". I suggest we use "BIOS3164.BIN" and "BIOS3159.BIN" and "BIOSWHIT.BIN" as the future filenames for the three different BIOS versions that we're currently aware of? I changed the few-weeks-old name of one of the Blue RAM files, so it is easier to tell the BLUE RAM BASIC from the BLUE RAM UTILITY. I changed -- if I recall correctly -- the filename of one of the Galaxian files, once I dumped it's twin-with-a-different-name. It just made the filename more accurate, once we had both images. I changed a few miscellaneous game file names yesterday, as well. I keep the list of Bally ROM images up on a web site, and update it as needed, so the most current names will be there for each file. It should be easy enough to identify unique files, since the list has always included the CRC-32 checksum code as a unique identifier. Ward Shrake From ballyalley@h... Sat Aug 18 16:47:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 18 Aug 2001 23:47:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 5505 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2001 23:47:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Aug 2001 23:47:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.144) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 Aug 2001 23:47:26 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 16:47:26 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 23:47:25 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Images Vs. Carts - Don’t Mix’em Up! Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 16:47:25 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Aug 2001 23:47:26.0144 (UTC) FILETIME=[224AF400:01C12840] From: "Adam Trionfo" August 18, 2001 ROM Images Vs. Actual Cartridges – Don’t Mix’em Up! --------------------------------------------------- Ward has been updating his ROM image list and has been explaining the logic behind it. He has mentioned this already, but I want to make it very clear-- there is a real difference between his ROM image list and a cartridge list. Neither his ROM list or any cartridge list is better. This is not about that, for each is compiling different material. The Astrocade reminds me of the English language, there is always a catch. In this case the "no 'i' before 'e' except 'c'" rule is that many of the images on the ROM list never were cartridges in the first place. This is not to say that they were not released, they were just released in a different format. For instance, here is some information about a non-cartridge image. Vipersoft BASIC is a slightly modified version of Extended BASIC, as is Blue Ram BASIC (and Hot Rod BASIC too). The difference here is that while Blue Ram BASIC was released on cartridge, Vipersoft BASIC first needs to be loaded from tape (where it is then moved to non-volatile memory where it is used as a cartridge). Once the Astrocade is Reset part of the Viper’s memory imitates the cartridge area and the user no longer needs to load Vipersoft BASIC from tape again (until the Viper is unplugged). Vipersoft BASIC is the exception rather than the rule. Other ROM images were originally BASIC programs that were never meant to be used as cartridges (Simon, Artillery Duel (the BASIC version), anything printed in newsletters). Some images are machine language programs, but were also only distributed on tape (Blue Ram Utilities). Almost every ROM image on Ward’s list was released in some form (cassette tape or cartridge). It would be a mistake for any collector to add some of these ROM image titles to a want list; the cartridges would never be found because they were originally only distributed on cassette tapes. In a few weeks the cartridge list mentioned by Ward (written by Michael White) will be released on this message board. I’ll be looking for feedback and will make some immediate changes based upon what I hear. Until then, don’t get mixed up between cartridges and ROM images. While these words are interchangeable on other platforms (that is, nearly 100% of the images were at least meant to be on ROM) this is not the case on the Astrocade. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From cybpunks@h... Mon Aug 20 16:34:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 20 Aug 2001 23:34:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 80957 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2001 23:34:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2001 23:34:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.36) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Aug 2001 23:34:10 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.125] by mq.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2001 23:34:09 -0000 Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:34:08 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Project update: Bally multicart Message-ID: <9ls6pg+ldk3@e...> In-Reply-To: <9lmidc+kss4@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 463 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.67 From: "Glenn Saunders" Wow, you got all the Esoterica and Spectrecade games dumped, plus stuff I've never even heard of. Congratulations! You've pretty much gotten everything that probably exists out there as far as cart games go. --- In ballyalley@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > Here is the direct link to the list I keep online, that shows what > has or has not been been archived, so far.... > > http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/ballyrom.htm > > Ward Shrake From ward.shrake@w... Tue Aug 21 14:41:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 21 Aug 2001 21:41:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 12638 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2001 21:40:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2001 21:40:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Aug 2001 21:40:13 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.104] by mu.egroups.com with NNFMP; 21 Aug 2001 21:40:13 -0000 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:40:11 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Project update: Bally multicart Message-ID: <9lukfr+u2vk@e...> In-Reply-To: <9ls6pg+ldk3@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1129 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.203 From: "Ward Shrake" Hee, hee. Thanks, Glenn! I appreciate your kind and happy words. But I just want to be sure that I (Ward) don't get all the credit for the recent surges forward, in ROM image collection for the Astrocade. Adam Trionfo and Mike White take equal or more credit than I do, in my opinion? I may be the one actually "handing the candy" out, as it were, but they had the original recipe, and they did lots of "behind the scenes" stuff. (Plus, there are the usual suspects, who would like to remain nameless, who helped out in adding to the ROM collection.) Ward Shrake --- In ballyalley@y..., "Glenn Saunders" wrote: > Wow, you got all the Esoterica and Spectrecade games dumped, plus > stuff I've never even heard of. Congratulations! > > You've pretty much gotten everything that probably exists out there > as far as cart games go. > > --- In ballyalley@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > > Here is the direct link to the list I keep online, that shows what > > has or has not been been archived, so far.... > > > > http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/ballyrom.htm > > > > Ward Shrake From ballyalley@h... Wed Aug 22 01:19:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 22 Aug 2001 08:19:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 19915 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2001 08:19:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2001 08:19:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.34) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Aug 2001 08:19:13 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:19:13 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:19:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Ballyalley.com Updated - A full volume of Arcadian and more Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:19:13 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Aug 2001 08:19:13.0893 (UTC) FILETIME=[20C6D950:01C12AE3] From: "Adam Trionfo" Uploaded to ballyalley.com on August 20, 2001: * Ads and Catalogs ---------------- michael_white_catalog.pdf * Arcadian -------- Volume 1, issues 1 and 11 – Volume complete Volume 5, issues 11 and 12 – Volume complete * Astrobugs --------- Astrobugs – July 1982 (original, not retyped) * Cartridge Manuals ----------------- Bowling Checkers Chicken Life Mazeman Music Maker Part 1 Music Maker Quadra Sea Devil * Misc. Documents --------------- Cassette Tape to ROM * Perkins ------- docs_blue_ram_utility3.txt * Tape Manuals ------------ docs-astro-bugs_tape1.pdf docs-astro-bugs_tape2.pdf docs-general_video_assembler.pdf Important: A change has occurred at ballyalley.com since the last time files were uploaded. Files are available at File Planet, and that means that from now on there is an extra step when downloading pdf files. After clicking normally to download a file, the user will be brought to File Planet and presented with an option to download. You may have to wait in line for a few minutes before the download begins. I’m sorry about this. In order to resolve any problems with errors viewing the pdf file, you my want to right-click and then save the file to your local hard drive instead of just downloading the file. I going to try to make this process easier in September. In the meantime, the files are available for those that are willing to go through the added download step. Adam Trionfo - August 21, 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Wed Aug 22 11:02:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 22 Aug 2001 18:02:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 18644 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2001 17:51:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2001 17:51:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.139) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Aug 2001 17:51:50 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:51:47 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:51:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: The Blue Ram Power Supply Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:51:47 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Aug 2001 17:51:47.0807 (UTC) FILETIME=[1D4E1EF0:01C12B33] From: "Adam Trionfo" For reference: The Blue Ram RAM expansion unit uses an Atari power supply model 008229 (I'm not sure what this PS was originally used for). It is rated at 6 VDC and 500 MA. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From rcolbert1@h... Fri Aug 24 08:07:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rcolbert1@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 24 Aug 2001 15:07:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 24234 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2001 15:06:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Aug 2001 15:06:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.86) by mta2 with SMTP; 24 Aug 2001 15:06:02 -0000 Received: from bob ([24.7.37.218]) by femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010824150602.CSXD26423.femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com@b...> for ; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:06:02 -0700 To: Subject: RE: [ballyalley] The Blue Ram Power Supply Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:18:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal From: "Bob Colbert" Hi, Just wanted to update everyone that I am pretty close to releasing a preliminary versin of my bally .wav -> bin -> .wav program. I've completely figured out the 2000 baud format and am looking at the 300 baud format now. I'll keep you updated! Bob > -----Original Message----- > From: Adam Trionfo [mailto:ballyalley@h...] > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 12:52 PM > To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [ballyalley] The Blue Ram Power Supply > > > For reference: > > The Blue Ram RAM expansion unit uses an Atari power supply model > 008229 (I'm > not sure what this PS was originally used for). It is rated at 6 VDC and > 500 MA. > > Adam Trionfo > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From ballyalley@h... Fri Aug 24 10:06:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 24 Aug 2001 17:06:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 4333 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2001 17:05:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 24 Aug 2001 17:05:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.99) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Aug 2001 17:05:36 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:05:36 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:05:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: On converting tapes to digital files Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:05:36 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Aug 2001 17:05:36.0509 (UTC) FILETIME=[FE4F1AD0:01C12CBE] From: "Adam Trionfo" August 24, 2001 Now that Bob has made such headway on his "bally .wav -> bin -> .wav " program, it is time line up help to convert programs. I have enough tapes to fill up the rest of my lifetime in translating alone, so not only will we need to make a team that shares the workload, but we also need to narrow the focus onto tapes that can be freely distributed. I've made contact with some of the Astrocade software authors, and thus far all of the Arcadian isssues and these three series of tapes are freely distributable or public domain: Wavemakers New Image Goerge Moses There are a few tangles here. First, I am unsure about how many tapes this actually is. Second, I do not even have all of this software. I'm sure that between all of us we can figure this out. This is a good chunk of software to archive already and will keep us busy for some time. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From lance@a... Fri Aug 24 10:31:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 24 Aug 2001 17:31:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 54034 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2001 17:30:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Aug 2001 17:30:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alteeve.com) (209.226.69.125) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Aug 2001 17:30:33 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com (norigen-gw1.bettermarkets.com [206.186.28.114] (may be forged)) by alteeve.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14731 for ; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:44:38 -0400 Message-ID: <3B869010.2080105@a...> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:34:08 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i686; en-US; rv:0.9.1) Gecko/20010622 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] The Blue Ram Power Supply References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" Bob Colbert wrote: >Hi, > Just wanted to update everyone that I am pretty close to releasing a >preliminary versin of my bally .wav -> bin -> .wav program. I've completely >figured out the 2000 baud format and am looking at the 300 baud format now. >I'll keep you updated! > > Bob > Just a thought. With this conversion, it should be possable to get the mess/xmess emulators to read the .bin files into the emulated basic. However, it'll be terably confusing trying to distinguish between the catrdump.bins and the tapedump.bins. Maybe we should come-up with a different extension for the converted tapes. '.bas' comes to mind, except some of the tapes contain Machine Language programs also. E.G: Candy Man or Chicken (2nd load) -- Lance F. Squire [Linux is] "A system that allows for precise knowledge of everything that is or can happen on the system, but doesn't require it" Undisclosed seminar site. From lance@a... Fri Aug 24 10:35:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 24 Aug 2001 17:35:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 71583 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2001 17:34:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Aug 2001 17:34:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alteeve.com) (209.226.69.125) by mta2 with SMTP; 24 Aug 2001 17:34:01 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com (norigen-gw1.bettermarkets.com [206.186.28.114] (may be forged)) by alteeve.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14746 for ; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:48:06 -0400 Message-ID: <3B8690E0.7080903@a...> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:37:36 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i686; en-US; rv:0.9.1) Gecko/20010622 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] The Blue Ram Power Supply References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" Bob Colbert wrote: >Hi, > Just wanted to update everyone that I am pretty close to releasing a >preliminary versin of my bally .wav -> bin -> .wav program. I've completely >figured out the 2000 baud format and am looking at the 300 baud format now. >I'll keep you updated! > > Bob > B.T.W. If you send me a discription of the .bin file, I'll be happy to try my hand at a txt -> bin -> txt converter. I'd love to write Bally Basic programs on a REAL keyboard! -- Lance F. Squire [Linux is] "A system that allows for precise knowledge of everything that is or can happen on the system, but doesn't require it" Undisclosed seminar site. From rcolbert1@h... Fri Aug 24 13:33:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rcolbert1@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 24 Aug 2001 20:33:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 78831 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2001 20:32:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Aug 2001 20:32:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.85) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Aug 2001 20:32:10 -0000 Received: from bob ([24.7.37.218]) by femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010824203210.KNGL1258.femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com@b...> for ; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:32:10 -0700 To: Subject: RE: [ballyalley] The Blue Ram Power Supply Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:44:13 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C12CB3.A0090B80" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3B8690E0.7080903@a...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal From: "Bob Colbert" ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C12CB3.A0090B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I have attempted to address the concerns regarding recognition of these files by creating a header. The format is open for debate. I'll probably change the BALLY header to BALLYTAPE or something. Please take a look and make suggestions! This is a very important step in avoiding problems in the future. Attached is a sample .bin file. Remember, this is a preliminary attempt at creating some type of file format. The format for this file is: BALLY(load count byte)(file length word in lobyte hibyte format) { LOAD(load number byte)(load length word in lobyte hibtye format) { (load data) } [LOAD chunk repeated for each load] } > -----Original Message----- > From: Lance F. Squire [mailto:lance@a...] > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 12:38 PM > To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [ballyalley] The Blue Ram Power Supply > > > Bob Colbert wrote: > > >Hi, > > Just wanted to update everyone that I am pretty close to releasing a > >preliminary versin of my bally .wav -> bin -> .wav program. > I've completely > >figured out the 2000 baud format and am looking at the 300 baud > format now. > >I'll keep you updated! > > > > Bob > > > > B.T.W. If you send me a discription of the .bin file, I'll be happy to > try my hand at a txt -> bin -> txt converter. > I'd love to write Bally Basic programs on a REAL keyboard! > > -- > Lance F. Squire > > [Linux is] "A system that allows for precise knowledge of everything > that is or can happen on the system, but doesn't require it" > Undisclosed seminar site. > > > > > > Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! 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Fri Aug 24 14:58:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 24 Aug 2001 21:58:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 25862 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2001 21:58:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 24 Aug 2001 21:58:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.149) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Aug 2001 21:58:25 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.100.237.28]) by femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010824215825.NFDL17854.femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:58:25 -0700 Message-ID: <3B86CAD1.3000702@a...> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:44:49 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] The Blue Ram Power Supply References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" Bob Colbert wrote: > Hi, > I have attempted to address the concerns regarding recognition of these > files by creating a header. The format is open for debate. I'll probably > change the BALLY header to BALLYTAPE or something. Please take a look and > make suggestions! This is a very important step in avoiding problems in the > future. > > Um.... That's great, for the emulator. But does little for the person trying to keep them organized. From obee00@y... Fri Aug 24 16:02:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: obee00@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 24 Aug 2001 23:02:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 92853 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2001 23:02:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Aug 2001 23:02:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.49) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Aug 2001 23:02:28 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: obee00@y... Received: from [10.1.10.34] by ej.egroups.com with NNFMP; 24 Aug 2001 23:02:28 -0000 Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:02:28 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Bally Astocade Repair Message-ID: <9m6me4+m5jv@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 94 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.217.117.33 From: obee00@y... Anybody know of a good place I can have my Bally Astrocade repaired? I live in Saint Louis. From lance@a... Fri Aug 24 17:57:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 25 Aug 2001 00:57:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 13836 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 00:57:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 25 Aug 2001 00:57:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.149) by mta1 with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 00:57:41 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.100.237.28]) by femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010825005740.ROVC17854.femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:57:40 -0700 Message-ID: <3B86F4D4.9060301@a...> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:44:04 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Differentiating tape dumps from cart dumps. References: <3B86CAD1.3000702@a...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" How about .tap/.tape for tape dumps? From rcolbert1@h... Fri Aug 24 18:53:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rcolbert1@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 25 Aug 2001 01:53:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 52660 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 01:53:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 25 Aug 2001 01:53:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.81) by mta2 with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 01:53:30 -0000 Received: from bob ([24.7.37.218]) by femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010825015330.SAVG27977.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@b...> for ; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:53:30 -0700 To: Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Differentiating tape dumps from cart dumps. Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:06:32 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <3B86F4D4.9060301@a...> Importance: Normal From: "Bob Colbert" I'm not particular on the file extension. We probably want to be as unique as possible though, and only 3 characters for dos 8.3 compatability... Let's here some more input, any other suggestions on the extension? Bob > -----Original Message----- > From: Lance F. Squire [mailto:lance@a...] > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 7:44 PM > To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [ballyalley] Differentiating tape dumps from cart dumps. > > > How about .tap/.tape for tape dumps? > > > > Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From ward.shrake@w... Sat Aug 25 09:18:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 25 Aug 2001 16:18:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 81199 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 16:18:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 25 Aug 2001 16:18:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 16:18:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.123] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2001 16:18:07 -0000 Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:18:06 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Differentiating tape dumps from cart dumps. Message-ID: <9m8j3u+87j5@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4287 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.68.228 From: "Ward Shrake" Just some feedback, before we get too far into all this... I love the idea of making a ".txt" to ".wav" program! Anything to make coding easier, should push homebrew carts and tapes into being? I realize it is "one step at a time" but that idea is a "keeper"!? I agree with Bob that some sort of a header would be good for tape images. But before we get ahead of ourselves, please keep in mind that pretty much the entire cart library has already been dumped. Those were all marked ".bin" from the start, with no header at all, as that seemed to be the trend with other emulator files of the time. I'd say the "cat was let out of the bag" on the ROM images, and that it was arguably too late to fix that? I'll keep an open mind, but right now, I'm against it. I can't see what we'd gain, if we re-did the cart image library, and added headers? On some of the other emulators, headers were added to tell future emulators what unusual, non-intuitive bank-switching schemes were used with a specific cart, or to differentiate between a 2600 cart and a 7800 cartridge, since the latter had some form of added encryption and was not backwards compatible with a VCS. All of this was done pretty much before dumping many 7800 carts, by the way. Every Bally cart that we've come across so far was no more than 8k in size, and that is what the Bally was designed to handle so no funky bank switching methods were ever needed. And I doubt would be needed for conceivable future efforts, since the Bally packs a lot of punch for its day? Bally's carts did quite a bit with even their 4k carts? I could be wrong, but as far as I know, even the hybrid tape-to-cart dumps should be easy enough to identify, from within an emulator? The start of each file is a version of BASIC, then the actual BASIC program follows it. I believe both are 4k in length. The BASIC half would be easy enough to identify as such, so an emulator could see it was there, and realize it was dealing with a hybrid cartridge image? I think it should be up to the specific emulator authors, more than others, to decide what should be done here? If headers were the new standard, the emulators would have to read both types, otherwise the whole library becomes pretty much obsolete and unusable, overnight? One other thing to keep in mind is that MESS (and possibly other) emulators uses a CRC-32 check, to know in advance what ROM image it is dealing with. MESS does not just rely on filenames, the way I understand it? It reads a ROM, and does some fancy math on each byte to identify each image uniquely. (Correct me if I'm wrong, Frank Palazzolo?) So some level of automatic "unique ROM" identification is already built-into the MESS emulator, and possibly other emulators. One last consideration is that some people (like Mike White) use the existing "bare" ROM image file formats to burn copies of carts onto ROMs again. (Well, EPROMs.) Adding a header makes it necessary to keep two copies of each ROM, which might end up becoming a nightmare? If others decide a header is needed for ROM images, so be it. I'm putting in a "why?" vote at this point, looking for justification? Getting back to tapes... I agree that the DOS 8.3 convention is the correct way to name tape dumps. (I've always stuck with that for ROM images, by the way. I admit to being a DOS guy at heart, though; "truth in advertising".) As to what file extension to use, I agree with Mr. Colbert that it should be as unique as possible. Therefore, I'd avoid ".tap" as an extension, since that name is already given to a specific emulator format for the Commodore home computer series. (The VICE emulator uses it, and others may also.) At least one archiving site has over 200 Commodore tapes in this format, so confusing the two types of different formats would not be the best idea possible, in the future. http://members.fortunecity.com/timfy/ ...is the archiving web site I'm talking about, if anyone cares? How about ".cas" for Bally tapes? Or is that already in use, too? And there's always ".bas" or ".key" for fake-keyboard-entry files, if and when things get to that point? (Or just stick with ".txt" and have the emulator read them directly, and do the interpretation?) Ward Shrake From rcolbert1@h... Sat Aug 25 09:39:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rcolbert1@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 25 Aug 2001 16:39:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 47651 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 16:39:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 25 Aug 2001 16:39:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta3 with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 16:39:39 -0000 Received: from bob ([24.7.37.218]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010825163933.FOIZ28093.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@b...> for ; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 09:39:33 -0700 To: Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Re: Differentiating tape dumps from cart dumps. Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:52:54 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <9m8j3u+87j5@e...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Bob Colbert" I vote for .blt, (B)a(L)ly (T)ape. Kinda cute and descriptive at the same time. As far as headers for cart dumps, I don't know enough about the Bally to argue one way or another. Headers are always nice to have, and can be ignored or removed easily if they are designed correctly. As for tapes, they are absolutely necessary as I've found that a load can be any length really. The text -> .wav thing was something that I was planning on looking at, but since someone already volunteered that's great! It shouldn't be too hard, you can see much of the BASIC stuff, minus the keywords which are encoded at single bytes, in the tape image. Another thing that would be nice would be an image editor to edit the initial image displayed when a tape is loaded. An editor or .bmp convertor would be ideal. Bob > -----Original Message----- > From: Ward Shrake [mailto:ward.shrake@w...] > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 11:18 AM > To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [ballyalley] Re: Differentiating tape dumps from cart dumps. > > > Just some feedback, before we get too far into all this... > > I love the idea of making a ".txt" to ".wav" program! Anything to > make coding easier, should push homebrew carts and tapes into being? > I realize it is "one step at a time" but that idea is a "keeper"!? > > I agree with Bob that some sort of a header would be good for tape > images. But before we get ahead of ourselves, please keep in mind > that pretty much the entire cart library has already been dumped. > Those were all marked ".bin" from the start, with no header at all, > as that seemed to be the trend with other emulator files of the time. > > I'd say the "cat was let out of the bag" on the ROM images, and that > it was arguably too late to fix that? I'll keep an open mind, but > right now, I'm against it. > > I can't see what we'd gain, if we re-did the cart image library, and > added headers? On some of the other emulators, headers were added to > tell future emulators what unusual, non-intuitive bank-switching > schemes were used with a specific cart, or to differentiate between a > 2600 cart and a 7800 cartridge, since the latter had some form of > added encryption and was not backwards compatible with a VCS. All of > this was done pretty much before dumping many 7800 carts, by the way. > > Every Bally cart that we've come across so far was no more than 8k in > size, and that is what the Bally was designed to handle so no funky > bank switching methods were ever needed. And I doubt would be needed > for conceivable future efforts, since the Bally packs a lot of punch > for its day? Bally's carts did quite a bit with even their 4k carts? > > I could be wrong, but as far as I know, even the hybrid tape-to-cart > dumps should be easy enough to identify, from within an emulator? The > start of each file is a version of BASIC, then the actual BASIC > program follows it. I believe both are 4k in length. The BASIC half > would be easy enough to identify as such, so an emulator could see it > was there, and realize it was dealing with a hybrid cartridge image? > > I think it should be up to the specific emulator authors, more than > others, to decide what should be done here? If headers were the new > standard, the emulators would have to read both types, otherwise the > whole library becomes pretty much obsolete and unusable, overnight? > > One other thing to keep in mind is that MESS (and possibly other) > emulators uses a CRC-32 check, to know in advance what ROM image it > is dealing with. MESS does not just rely on filenames, the way I > understand it? It reads a ROM, and does some fancy math on each byte > to identify each image uniquely. (Correct me if I'm wrong, Frank > Palazzolo?) So some level of automatic "unique ROM" identification is > already built-into the MESS emulator, and possibly other emulators. > > One last consideration is that some people (like Mike White) use the > existing "bare" ROM image file formats to burn copies of carts onto > ROMs again. (Well, EPROMs.) Adding a header makes it necessary to > keep two copies of each ROM, which might end up becoming a nightmare? > > If others decide a header is needed for ROM images, so be it. I'm > putting in a "why?" vote at this point, looking for justification? > > Getting back to tapes... > > I agree that the DOS 8.3 convention is the correct way to name tape > dumps. (I've always stuck with that for ROM images, by the way. I > admit to being a DOS guy at heart, though; "truth in advertising".) > > As to what file extension to use, I agree with Mr. Colbert that it > should be as unique as possible. Therefore, I'd avoid ".tap" as an > extension, since that name is already given to a specific emulator > format for the Commodore home computer series. (The VICE emulator > uses it, and others may also.) At least one archiving site has over > 200 Commodore tapes in this format, so confusing the two types of > different formats would not be the best idea possible, in the future. > > http://members.fortunecity.com/timfy/ > ...is the archiving web site I'm talking about, if anyone cares? > > How about ".cas" for Bally tapes? Or is that already in use, too? > > And there's always ".bas" or ".key" for fake-keyboard-entry files, if > and when things get to that point? (Or just stick with ".txt" and > have the emulator read them directly, and do the interpretation?) > > Ward Shrake > > > > Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From ward.shrake@w... Sat Aug 25 09:44:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 25 Aug 2001 16:44:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 79329 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 16:44:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 25 Aug 2001 16:44:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.66) by mta1 with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 16:44:28 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.110] by c9.egroups.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2001 16:44:27 -0000 Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:44:27 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: The Blue Ram Power Supply Message-ID: <9m8klb+66ql@e...> In-Reply-To: <3B86CAD1.3000702@a...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2268 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.68.228 From: "Ward Shrake" --- In ballyalley@y..., "Lance F. Squire" wrote: > Um.... > > That's great, for the emulator. But does little for the person > trying to keep them organized. Quick warning... let's not reinvent the wheel and complicate things! Please remember that as I've dumped any "new" ROM image, I've also made sure it was properly listed, in a very informative list, up at: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/ballyrom.htm (There is one alternate listing, which is sorted differently, but the info is exactly the same, otherwise. The URL to that file is clearly posted at the top of the list, so people can find and read either.) This list includes a CRC-32 code, which is to say, a way to uniquely identify one ROM dump from another regardless of their file names. And as seen in previous posts, guys like Adam, Ward and Mike White are all working together on the next generation of software listings, so that we can all keep this stuff straight, and minimize confusion. So although I'm open to other ideas, as far as I'm concerned, there is nothing wrong with the current "organization" of ROM images? There really weren't that many people involved with the dumping of ROMs for this system, and we've all been very careful to stay organized, etc. It is not like a hundred different people were involved, and all did things differently? There is only a tiny bit of confusion now, and that I've tried to document in a previous post, clarifying why I had decided to change a handful of ROM image file names, recently. I also listed some tapes, using an older version of Lance's FAQ, with quite a few additions made when Russ Perry Jr. sent me his list of personally-owned tapes, some ages back. It wouldn't be all that hard for future tape dumping people to use the list format I've used for ROMs to keep tape images in some kind of organized, methodical order? http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/ballytap.htm And remember, Ward is a "Digital Press Collectors Guide" author, and Adam is no slouch in the documentation department. So it is not entirely unlikely that particular, popular software listing will also get a much-needed update, at some future point? All this is already in the works, so let's be patient, please!? Ward Shrake From ward.shrake@w... Sat Aug 25 10:10:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 25 Aug 2001 17:10:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 29849 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 17:10:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 25 Aug 2001 17:10:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 17:10:15 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.107] by mu.egroups.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2001 17:10:15 -0000 Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 17:10:10 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Differentiating tape dumps from cart dumps. Message-ID: <9m8m5i+30b3@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1707 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.68.228 From: "Ward Shrake" I vote for Bob's ".blt" tape format extension, as well. (Cute name!) I agree tapes need headers. No doubts or questions on that, from me! I've played with tape formats on other machines. What a bleepin' mess that can be? Better to formalize a good standard now, than to wait? On cart headers, I'm going to be more skeptical. If Franks says "yes" then I'll buy into that idea. But otherwise, I'd resist doing it out of my (admittedly whining) aversion to complicating my own life. One strong argument in its favor, however, would be historical notes? If the header format was extended in size to be large enough to include things like the names of the authors of a particular program, and/or similar information, then I'd "be on board" for that idea? But as just a way to identify a given ROM image, I think it'd be a waste? If we did this, I'd say that 1024 "extra" bytes up front might be plenty? Maybe mark the first 128 or 256 bytes as emulator-only, and have the rest be a free-format type thing, intended for ASCII text? The reason this idea excites me is that once a given ROM is released by the copyright holders, for use on a modern software emulator, that author could specify what they wanted to say about their own game in that space? "Send me a postcard if you like this game," for instance, and an address? Or maybe "Donate $x to charity if you like this game"? Or just "Copyright retained by (blank), but permission is given for free play on emulators by (blank) on (blank) date." Or "This is the first homebrew cart game written for the Bally." ;-) Do that, and you have my full support for re-doing all the existing ROM images, with headers up front? Ward Shrake From ballyalley@h... Sat Aug 25 12:03:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 25 Aug 2001 19:03:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 75242 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 19:03:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 25 Aug 2001 19:03:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.112) by mta1 with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 19:03:27 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:03:27 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 19:03:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Possible File Headers for Astrocade Taping Methods Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:03:26 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Aug 2001 19:03:27.0150 (UTC) FILETIME=[9F270CE0:01C12D98] From: "Adam Trionfo" Possible File Headers for Astrocade Tape Methods If loading a Bally tape was as easy as just pressing the Play button, then no file header would be needed. But Bob Colbert is correct; a file header format is needed to handle the different variety of formats used to save and load data. Astrocade users came up with different tape using-methods that made life easier for them at the time. Some of the methods used may seem totally mad to us now (some could be very time-consuming), but they were all used with good reason. I do not know the technical background behind these methods, but here are the methods that I have experience with: BASIC CARTRIDGE – Any of these four methods can be used without additional hardware. * BASIC Program - Three-second tone followed by the program, followed by a one second end tone. This is the method that is used when a user saves BASIC program in Bally BASIC. * 'Tick Marks' - The 300 baud version of BASIC allows tapes to be saved with a unique identifying mark. So, if a tape has ten programs and the ninth is going to be loaded, then the user rewinds the tape to the beginning. Afterward, the program is fetched by inputting the identifying mark and just pressing play. Yes, the program does have to go through eight other programs (sequentially, at normal speed, of course) before it reaches the ninth, but this method avoids the fast-forward-rewind search method. The user is completely responsible for knowing the identifying marks on the tape; there is no 'directory.' * Arrays - Arrays can be saved to tape. This requires memory locations to be entered while saving. I used this myself except to enter the 300-baud to 2000-baud conversion program listed in the BASIC manual (which is really saving a machine-language program to tape). * ML Programs - Small programs written in machine language can be loaded using the BASIC cartridge. When loaded they are placed into a specific memory location with user parameters. COMMERCIAL PROGRAMS - This is where variation begins. To begin with, many tapes are saved in the BASIC format described above. Some of the other methods used are: * Menu - First program on tape loads the Astrocade's menu (which is in ROM) and adds to the list the names of the programs on tape. The user presses stop when the menu is loaded. When the user makes a selection (as per usual for the Astrocade menu), then the Play button is pressed again. When the tape gets to the correct program, it is loaded and started. One example of this is Wavemakers "Four Famous Freebies." * Tape Gaps - A program is loaded, and run. It is timed perfectly with the tape so that Stop never needs to be pressed. When the first program is run (a title screen for example), then the programs loads the second part. In between the first program and the second program is silence (the exact amount it takes for the first program to be executed and terminated before the second needs to be loaded). Examples of this are "Chicken" and the music tapes by George Moses. Hardware Required – These methods only are used if extra RAM is available. * Expanded BASIC – The RAM expansion units allow programs to be written that use more than the 1.8K of RAM allocated to Bally BASIC. These units also use the 2000 baud method to save and load tapes (any program written in Blue Ram BASIC or Viper BASIC use this method). Bally BASIC programs can be loaded with no modification into either of these expanded BASIC languages and the reverse is also true, a small program saved from an expanded BASIC, does load into Bally BASIC. Only a few Expanded BASIC programs on were released on tape. * Expanded ML Programs - Large user-written programs can be loaded into the unit (depending upon how much memory the unit has). Any of the 8K (or larger) Blue Ram units can save a cartridge to tape and run it later as if the cartridge is present. (This could be an EXTERMELLY nice development environment, the equivalent of the Supercharger on the VCS). Only a few Expanded ML programs were released on tape (the expanded BASIC languages, for a start). Homebrew – I would not expect Bob’s program to handle this method. Unlike the above methods, I do not have experience using this. I also do not know of any commercial products that use it. There are doubtlessly many homebrew methods that were used, this is just one of them. It is here just for the curious. * 'Tick Marks' – Though the 2000 baud version of BASIC did away with this, a software method could be used to use it in some fashion. Some of the taping methods listed here may share the same technique. I can provide examples of each of these methods on tape as required.. In the meantime, I want to give personal thanks to Bob for devoting time and energy into this project. It is appreciated! -- Adam Trionfo August 25, 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From lance@a... Sat Aug 25 18:28:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 26 Aug 2001 01:28:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 28088 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 01:28:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 26 Aug 2001 01:28:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail31.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.21) by mta2 with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 01:28:00 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.100.237.28]) by femail31.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010826012759.LAHY14944.femail31.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:27:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3B884D6D.5080503@a...> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 21:14:21 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Possible File Headers for Astrocade Taping Methods References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" 1. I'm all for leaving the cart dumps as is! With the exception of adding imbeded information to appear on the emulators. But that's what archives & faqs are for. ;) 2. Headers on tape dump files (not raw audio) are obviously a must to preserve the way some tapes worked. 3. '.blt' it ok with me, if it's not confusing with anything else. I was going to sugest .tpe as I later thought .tap would be a bad extension. 4. Already thought about merging a graphic image with the .txt to create the '.blt'(tenative). Had'nt worked out the particulars yet though. Also would need to setup a section of the text file for preloaded bits, as some programs used this feature. From cybpunks@h... Tue Aug 28 15:10:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 28 Aug 2001 22:10:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 84522 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2001 22:09:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2001 22:09:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 28 Aug 2001 22:09:32 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.125] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2001 22:09:32 -0000 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:09:27 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Possible File Headers for Astrocade Taping Methods Message-ID: <9mh4qn+3de9@e...> In-Reply-To: <3B884D6D.5080503@a...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1062 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.80 From: "Glenn Saunders" This may not be received well, but has anyone thought of using XML as a glue for ROM images and all related items (images, text, etc...)? The only drawback to using XML is having to encode the binary data internally. However, it does provide a human-readable heirarchical structure. I do like the idea of gluing everything together into a large blob, as long as it's easy to extract the individual pieces on all platforms. I just really hate filesystem clutter. The closest thing I've seen to this was the .vcs format for 2600 games that early 2600 emulators tried to get people using. As for file extensions, the sad reality is that after 20+ years of the PC, just about every possible file extension has been used somewhere along the line. It's a quick and easy way to associate files with programs that handle them, but I can definitely see why the Mac (creator) and the Amiga (default tool) went with a different system. Using checksums alone sucks because there will (hopefully) be new protos and homebrews always coming down the pike. From rcolbert1@h... Tue Aug 28 18:51:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rcolbert1@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 29 Aug 2001 01:51:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 11209 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 01:50:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Aug 2001 01:50:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.82) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 01:50:26 -0000 Received: from bob ([24.7.37.218]) by femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010829015026.ZDMS3982.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@b...> for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:50:26 -0700 To: Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Re: Possible File Headers for Astrocade Taping Methods Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:05:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <9mh4qn+3de9@e...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal From: "Bob Colbert" I thought of using XML tags for the tape format, but since I've never really worked with XML it probably won't happen. I'm working on designing a fairly flexible format specification that will allow expandability in the future. I'm basing it loosely on the way that the .wav format is structured. I will post my latest attempt at creating a format soon. Time, as always, is tight right now so I only get a few minutes here and there to work on this stuff. If anyone is an XML expert and would like to work together on this project, I'm more than open to it! In a related note, I haven't completely figured out the 300 baud format. I thought I might be able to "crack" it since I have a game in both 2000 baud and 300 baud format, but that isn't good enough. I will probably need to do what I did with the 2000 baud format, which is have Adam write a simple 1 line program that prints "ABCDEFGH" and a second one that prints "BBCDEFGH" or something like that, and save the programs in 300 baud format. I do know that I can remaster the 300 baud format, but I haven't yet figured out how the bits I am reading are translated into the bytes that the machine ultimately gets. The 300 baud format uses a different method to distinquish 0 and 1 bits too. On the 2000 baud format, a long wave form is a 1 and a short wave form is a 0. On the 300 baud format there are also long and short waveforms, but a one bit is represented by 4 long waveforms and a zero bit is represented by 8 short waveforms (or the other way around). The time occupied by the 4 long waveforms is equal to the time occupied by the 8 short waveforms. Bob > -----Original Message----- > From: Glenn Saunders [mailto:cybpunks@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 5:09 PM > To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [ballyalley] Re: Possible File Headers for Astrocade Taping > Methods > > > This may not be received well, but has anyone thought of using XML as > a glue for ROM images and all related items (images, text, etc...)? > > The only drawback to using XML is having to encode the binary data > internally. However, it does provide a human-readable heirarchical > structure. > > I do like the idea of gluing everything together into a large blob, > as long as it's easy to extract the individual pieces on all > platforms. I just really hate filesystem clutter. > > The closest thing I've seen to this was the .vcs format for 2600 > games that early 2600 emulators tried to get people using. > > As for file extensions, the sad reality is that after 20+ years of > the PC, just about every possible file extension has been used > somewhere along the line. > > It's a quick and easy way to associate files with programs that > handle them, but I can definitely see why the Mac (creator) and the > Amiga (default tool) went with a different system. > > Using checksums alone sucks because there will (hopefully) be new > protos and homebrews always coming down the pike. > > > > > > Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From cybpunks@h... Fri Aug 31 15:37:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 31 Aug 2001 22:37:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 36379 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 22:36:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2001 22:36:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 22:36:37 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.126] by b05.egroups.com with NNFMP; 31 Aug 2001 22:36:33 -0000 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 22:36:30 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Possible File Headers for Astrocade Taping Methods Message-ID: <9mp3he+si26@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2206 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.72 From: "Glenn Saunders" >> If anyone is an XML expert and would like to work together on this project, I'm more than open to it! << XML is dead simple. It's like a flat-file database. It's just a construction set for markup languages. Making a DTD in order to validate a particular made-up markup language in XML is the hardest part, but coming up with a spec in your head is trivial. And at least on Windows, XML parsing is built-in so you don't have to reinvent the wheel. An XML format would be something like this: UUENCODED DATA HERE UUENCODED DATA HERE You see how extensible something like this is? It can describe just about any game for any system. From cybpunks@h... Fri Aug 31 16:19:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 31 Aug 2001 23:19:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 34403 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 23:19:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2001 23:19:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n33.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.114) by mta1 with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 23:19:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.2.230] by ei.egroups.com with NNFMP; 31 Aug 2001 23:19:18 -0000 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:19:17 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: proposal found Message-ID: <9mp61l+c0tp@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1061 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.72 From: "Glenn Saunders" Anyone been on the net long enough to remember this?? http://www.taiwan.freeserve.co.uk/v2600/c26prop.html This is what I was talking about, but I think a better approach is to think in terms of XML. Let me explain why. XML is web-oriented. A database-driven website like AtariAge or the future version of BallyAlley could act like an online "updater" for everyone's local copy. Emulators could pull XML data feeds and either use them directly or apply them to a local copy. Same with external URLs. You wouldn't be as dependent on storing everything locally anymore, assuming in the future most of us will have always- on internet connections. What we have now with emulators are INI-like files such as stella.pro or embedded proprietary file formats where the header data is mixed in with the file data. I think the XML approach is more progressive, and could set a standard that all emulators could use down the road, at least console emulators. Maybe it's overkill for this particular approach, but I thought I'd throw it out there. From ward.shrake@w... Sat Sep 01 17:24:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 00:24:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 82869 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 00:24:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 00:24:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 00:24:24 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.102] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2001 00:24:24 -0000 Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 00:24:19 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Project update: Bally multicart Message-ID: <9mru7j+l89n@e...> In-Reply-To: <9lukfr+u2vk@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 818 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.228 From: "Ward Shrake" Anyone want to sell me some common Astrocade carts? I need some to use on my multicart project. Loose carts are fine. The plastic case must be in good shape, but the label condition is irrelevant; bad or missing is fine. (And the board does not even have to work, really. You can even keep the board, if you really want to; I don't need it.) The four screw holes in the corner cannot be stripped out, either. I'd prefer to buy a dozen or so at one time? I'm hoping to get them as cheaply as possible, since if push comes to shove, I can get the two case halves for $2 per pair from Mike White's NOS stock. (And I may switch over to those slightly different cases, at a later point.) I'd also like to buy one or two boxed carts, just for the heck of it. Ward Shrake e-mail : ward.shrake@w... From ballyalley@h... Tue Sep 18 08:19:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 18 Sep 2001 15:19:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 94580 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2001 15:19:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 18 Sep 2001 15:19:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.80) by mta2 with SMTP; 18 Sep 2001 15:19:44 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 08:19:41 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:19:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: "BASIC Demo" mailed Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 08:19:40 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Sep 2001 15:19:41.0081 (UTC) FILETIME=[56818090:01C14055] From: "Adam Trionfo" September 18, 2001 Ward, I sent off "Bally BASIC Demo" to Michael White yesterday with instructions for him to pass it on to you when he is done making a copy for himself. I did this because the Post Office seems "ify" about how long mail takes at the moment, and since California is across the country from me now, I thought that this might be a better route. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From lance@a... Wed Sep 19 09:07:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 19 Sep 2001 16:07:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 93635 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2001 16:07:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 19 Sep 2001 16:07:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alteeve.com) (209.226.69.125) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Sep 2001 16:07:45 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com (host.bettermarkets.com [209.167.86.50]) by alteeve.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA03221 for ; Wed, 19 Sep 2001 12:22:02 -0400 Message-ID: <3BA8C450.8060501@a...> Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 12:14:08 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010816 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] "BASIC Demo" mailed References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" Adam Trionfo wrote: >September 18, 2001 > >Ward, > >I sent off "Bally BASIC Demo" to Michael White yesterday with instructions >for him to pass it on to you when he is done making a copy for himself. I >did this because the Post Office seems "ify" about how long mail takes at >the moment, and since California is across the country from me now, I >thought that this might be a better route. > >Adam Trionfo > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Thanks, Unfortunatly, My home computer has been unable to connect to the net since Saturday. @home problems. There's a new computer expansion page on the test site. It's incompleate, & Brett tells me some of the information is incorrect. I'm still working on it, and would apreciate any input. Right now I'm concentrating on the Zgrass keyboard, but will also expand on the Viper and Blue Ram. Hopeing all your family and frends are well, Lance -- Lance F. Squire [Linux is] "A system that allows for precise knowledge of everything that is or can happen on the system, but doesn't require it" Undisclosed seminar site. From lance@a... Wed Sep 19 09:29:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 19 Sep 2001 16:29:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 39122 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2001 16:29:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 19 Sep 2001 16:29:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alteeve.com) (209.226.69.125) by mta3 with SMTP; 19 Sep 2001 16:29:12 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com (host.bettermarkets.com [209.167.86.50]) by alteeve.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA03268 for ; Wed, 19 Sep 2001 12:43:32 -0400 Message-ID: <3BA8C966.80501@a...> Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 12:35:50 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010816 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Oops! References: <3BA8C450.8060501@a...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" Lance F. Squire wrote: Re: test site Was so happy to see e-mail, I didn't notice it was group and not direct, Test site will remain hidden untill information is corrected, then moved to main htnl faq. -- Lance F. Squire [Linux is] "A system that allows for precise knowledge of everything that is or can happen on the system, but doesn't require it" Undisclosed seminar site. From rcolbert1@h... Thu Sep 20 19:34:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rcolbert1@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 21 Sep 2001 02:34:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 17873 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2001 02:34:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 21 Sep 2001 02:34:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.81) by mta3 with SMTP; 21 Sep 2001 02:34:43 -0000 Received: from bob ([24.7.37.218]) by femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010921023443.GHKY2371.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@b...> for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2001 19:34:43 -0700 To: Subject: Update Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 21:41:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3BA8C966.80501@a...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal From: "Bob Colbert" Just wanted to update everyone on my progress with "ballywav". I was pretty unhappy with how sloppy my code was, so I started over... well kind of. I really want to make the code flexible enough that it can be reused for the Atari 2600 and any other tape remastering. The code is in c++ and I redesigned the objects to be very flexible. I only get to work on this in my free time, which is pretty tight right now. I am exploring Glenn's suggestion of using XML, if I can find a free, easy to use XML c++ library, I will use it. I'm not that far in my rewrite yet though. Bob > -----Original Message----- > From: Lance F. Squire [mailto:lance@a...] > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 11:36 AM > To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [ballyalley] Oops! > > > Lance F. Squire wrote: > > Re: test site > > Was so happy to see e-mail, I didn't notice it was group and not direct, > Test site will remain hidden untill information is corrected, > then moved to main htnl faq. > > -- > Lance F. Squire > > [Linux is] "A system that allows for precise knowledge of everything > that is or can happen on the system, but doesn't require it" > Undisclosed seminar site. > > > > > Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From ward.shrake@w... Sat Sep 22 12:09:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 22 Sep 2001 19:09:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 5116 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2001 19:09:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Sep 2001 19:09:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Sep 2001 19:09:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.2.207] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Sep 2001 19:09:02 -0000 Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 19:08:59 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: "BASIC Demo" mailed Message-ID: <9oinkb+a9qe@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1714 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.251 From: "Ward Shrake" Just so everyone knows where we're at with this latest archiving bit... Mike White has the BASIC DEMO in his hands, right now. He says it is not the thing he saw, years ago, in a department store. For now, we are assuming that what Adam is loaning us for archiving is Bally #6003 in some form? (Perhaps multiple versions were made?) If we get info to the contrary, or just new info, we'll post accordingly. Mike and I find this cart to be very interesting, so far. Mike says that it appears that this cart includes a 4k version of BASIC in the cart, and then a 4k BASIC program, after it. This is the same way that fans of the system, years later, made hybrid carts. Note that those later efforts were unaware that Bally had done it themselves, and that there are technical differences between the two methods. (Bally's version seems to run slower, but allows all 4k to be used.) Earlier this week, Mike sent me three new ROM images, that I'll add into my official have/want lists over the next few days. One is the original version of Muncher, that says "Pac-Man" right on the screen. This is apparently the one that caused a legal fuss, early on, and could not be released by Bally. (Later versions of Muncher circulated, more as a "leak" than a real release. Some of these only had the name altered, others were found with minor changes made to the code; maybe 20 to 40 bytes changed, total.) For myself, I wanted this original one, since that was the "as written" version. The other two are versions of the Bally's internal operating system ROM. Mike White dumped various of his machine's ROMs, and sent them to me. (Having these will be important for emulation efforts.) Ward Shrake From ward.shrake@w... Thu Sep 27 15:16:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 27 Sep 2001 22:15:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 89445 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2001 22:15:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 27 Sep 2001 22:15:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.82) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Sep 2001 22:16:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.4.68] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 27 Sep 2001 22:16:35 -0000 Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 22:16:28 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Project update: Bally multicart Message-ID: <9p08fs+o5tc@e...> In-Reply-To: <9mru7j+l89n@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1744 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.53 From: "Ward Shrake" I just worked something out on paper that should allow me to cram the upcoming Astrocade multicart full of software, as I had originally hoped. I'll be testing the idea in real life, over the next few days. Up until now, all of the fan-built classic gaming multicarts have wasted a lot of space. What I did should not only work on the Bally cart, but could be engineered into any new multicarts made for other game systems. When I've confirmed that everything works as planned, I'll post some technical info about what I did and how I did it. (It is arguably trivial, but it would still be good to pass the info on.) Basically, the problem is that the person that made the first classic gaming multicarts (Sean Kelly) did not know how to mix different ROM image sizes together, and have them all work, without simply having small ROM images take up the same amount of space as the largest images for that particular game system. Sean threw lots of memory space at the problem, and just ignored all of the wasted EPROM memory space. In some cases, he had four large EPROMs on one multicart. (It works, so you can't argue with that part of things?) Most of the other folks that followed in Sean's footsteps never figured out how to mix memory sizes either; they largely copied Sean's earlier work. My first proto multicarts took the easy route, and wasted space, too. (8k carts took 8k, 4k carts took 8k, and 2k carts took 8k.) But since the Bally library is growing large, quickly, and since I want to be able to include "everything" that I can get ahold of, I needed to solve that little memory addresssing problem. I think I did, but I don't want to say more until I've confirmed the results in real life. Ward Shrake From ballyalley@h... Thu Sep 27 19:48:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 28 Sep 2001 02:47:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 89142 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2001 02:47:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 28 Sep 2001 02:47:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.49) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 Sep 2001 02:48:58 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:48:58 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Sep 2001 02:48:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Astrocade Images: What does one want? Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:48:58 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2001 02:48:58.0610 (UTC) FILETIME=[1F3B5D20:01C147C8] From: "Adam Trionfo" Astrocade Images: What does one want? How many images, and what kind, should be on an Astrocade cartridge? This question has come up before, and the answer is always, as much as possible-- everything. Sure, sure. If this memory scheme of Ward's works out, then it will allow more than just additional games on the Astrocade multicart. I’m speaking here from past posts, personal conversations with Ward, and other communications. No definition has been written in stone, but here it is as I understand it. All cartridges, regardless of quality will be on a multicart; this includes games and non-games (i.e. Biorhythm). All in-progress carts will be included too. This is all known territory; all the previous multicarts have done this. As homebrewed games have been released for the classic systems, these too find their way onto multicarts. This is where the Astrocade multicart takes a strange turn. There is simply no way that all homebrewed games can be on an Astrocade multicart. Unlike the cartridge releases, some strict definitions have to be laid out here so that a glut of programs are not fighting for space. Not all games deserve to be released. Some games are simply just plain BAD. For historical reasons (but mostly for collectors that want “complete” collections), these games are on multicarts. This is a fact; and I LIKE it this way. Choices are not being made: there is no Atari Multicart God that chooses what goes and what stays. It all stays. Quantity over quality. This may not seem like a problem right now, but if Ward’s scheme does work for the multicart, and there is suddenly extra room to fill with images, then what do we decide goes on the cart and what does not? It won’t take long to decide what is good and what is bad. There won’t be room for it all, but let’s pretend that there is. Can we make some choices here, that is, quality over quantity (even if there is extra room leftover on the cart)? I want a multicart that has as complete a collection as possible (of ‘real’ carts), and sort of a “Best of” homebrew games. This is completely overlooking non-games (including applications (at least ONE should be sampled), and art-type demos). Those that speak up will help shape the inclusions on the multicart, those that say nothing, well, don’t complain when the cartridge is not “complete.” Okay, Ward? Others? Adam -- Sept. 28, 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From spudboy@o... Thu Sep 27 20:20:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: spudboy@o... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 28 Sep 2001 03:20:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 96546 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2001 03:20:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.4.52 with QMQP; 28 Sep 2001 03:20:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net) (167.206.5.22) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 Sep 2001 03:20:21 -0000 Received: from bob (ool-18becc71.dyn.optonline.net [24.190.204.113]) by mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with SMTP id <0GKC00J0VRY2TS@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:20:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:20:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade Images: What does one want? To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <001501c147cc$808a1cc0$71ccbe18@b...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: From: spudboy I like the idea of having two different multicarts. One with all the released and prototype games. The other with a best of homebrew games. If there is still a whole bunch more homebrew games that are worthy of a release why not have three different multicarts. Here is another idea entirely. Why not make a cart kind of like the cuttle cart (for the 2600) or the intellicart (for the intellivision) and have the "Astrocart". It would be a blank cart with a cable coming out of it that attaches to a headphone jack of a stereo or walkman and have the games load into the cartridge from the cd in .wav form. This way one could burn as many CD's of wav files that he/she would like and at the drop of a hat load whatever program he/she would want to play. This would also be great for any new games that homebrew designers would make in the future. I have no technical ability so I do not know how to make such a device, but one has been made for the atari 2600 and also the intellivision so I would assume that it can be done. -Michael From lance@a... Fri Sep 28 08:42:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 28 Sep 2001 15:41:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 61582 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2001 15:41:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 28 Sep 2001 15:41:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alteeve.com) (209.226.69.125) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 Sep 2001 15:42:23 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com (host.bettermarkets.com [209.167.86.50]) by alteeve.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00373 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:56:50 -0400 Message-ID: <3BB49C32.1010405@a...> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:50:10 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010816 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade Images: What does one want? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" Adam Trionfo wrote: > Astrocade Images: What does one want? > > How many images, and what kind, should be on an Astrocade cartridge? Games/programs released and prototypes intended for release on cart should be on the multi cart. As all other games/programs (That I know of) were intended to work with the Basic cart, and should be left that way. (imho) As to the CD .wav -> cart. Basic does that. :) -- Lance F. Squire .Not My Services! From ballyalley@h... Fri Sep 28 09:53:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 28 Sep 2001 16:52:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 77779 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2001 16:52:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 28 Sep 2001 16:52:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.154) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Sep 2001 16:53:39 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 28 Sep 2001 09:53:35 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Sep 2001 16:53:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Image Inclusion and More Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 09:53:35 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2001 16:53:35.0964 (UTC) FILETIME=[1D49E9C0:01C1483E] From: "Adam Trionfo" Image Inclusion and More I do see the point that Lance is making about keeping BASIC programs away from the multicart. Those programs never were meant to compare to the carts, in the first place. But does that matter? Why make a sweeping judgement to exclude them from the multicart? Just to set the record straight, not all tape programs are BASIC. The BASIC interface (for the most part) is the only way users were, and are, able to get programs loaded into the Astrocade. Machine Language programs, and BASIC programs with ML subroutines, require the BASIC cartridge because that is how they are loaded. With that said, 1.8K is limiting; no matter what language you’re programming in. A decision needs to be made. What kind of cart is Ward creating? Should programs be included to preserve them? How does everyone feel? Is the cart for players only? Who IS buying one? I’ve defended some programs for historical reasons before, especially ‘Artillery Duel’ (which went from BASIC program to cartridge). Now that there is progress on the program to digitally remaster Bally tapes, perhaps it is time to rethink this preservation idea. I’ve made calls to people before about help with the Bally CD, but besides a few people, I’ve heard nothing on Bally tapes. If I ask if these games and programs should be included on the CD, the answer is “yes.” Sure, I want them there too. Please raise your hand if you can contribute time to this effort. If it is just me working on this, then it is NOT going to happen. Creating a device like the Intellicart has been discussed by non-technical people (like myself) before. The Blue Ram does this already (same result, different means). How many people would REALLY buy an AstrocadeCart (if there were such a thing)? It wouldn’t be cheap. Would it be a device for collectors or users? Does anyone know of a game or demo for the Intellivision programmed BECAUSE of the Intellicart (not using it, but inspired by it?). Would players play or collectors buy this? That being said, if Chad wants to make one, I’ll buy him an Astrocade system so that he can give it a whirl. [I hope Chad isn’t reading this… or maybe I hope that he is?] Adam Trionfo -- Sept. 28, 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ward.shrake@w... Fri Sep 28 17:25:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 29 Sep 2001 00:25:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 52216 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2001 00:25:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 29 Sep 2001 00:25:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.66) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Sep 2001 00:25:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.116] by n20.onelist.org with NNFMP; 29 Sep 2001 00:25:42 -0000 Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 00:25:41 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Image Inclusion and More Message-ID: <9p34e5+mtnm@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3912 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.57 From: "Ward Shrake" I'll include more precise details (and numbers) later, but here's my take on this subject, at the moment.... Adam is right on 99.8% of what he said. (And as always, I appreciate his input on things.) However, one minor nit I must pick is that there actually *IS* a limit on what games are available for the Atari systems. (This is an important thing to think about, when one is discussing what potential compromises may or may not be necessary on the Bally multicart?) All of the Atari 2600 multicarts that I'm aware of go up to 128 or 256 games, and then stop. There are therefore hundreds of games that are "missing" by a completist's standards. The main reason is that there are reportedly close to a thousand games released for that system; just too many to include at anything like a sane final cost. Many of those also had special chips originally included in the carts, which would have to be included on a multicart for those games to work. These chips are no longer made or sold in quantity, and are generally taken from a limited supply of existing carts that had them. Also complicating things for the 2600 is that many of the larger carts have odd bank-switching schemes, with no standards set. All of this adds up to a technical nightmare, which in turn forces multicart makers to dictate which games will or will not be included. On the Atari 5200 system's multicart, one game is missing and will likely always be missing. Why? Because it had special hardware inside the original cart. The multicart designers couldn't see the point of including duplicates of that special hardware, for only one game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the strong impression from web sites out I've read that the various Vectrex multicarts are not necessarily always 100% complete either? If this is true, it seems to be because various people work on homebrew projects for that system, and some of those people would rather put out a multicart themselves, with their homebrewed games on it, than to release that game as just another game included on another multicart makers' product. Even if I'm mistaken on that, there is a continual flow of new games coming out, so no one has a "complete" Vectrex multicart for very long. Adam had said that there was no higher authority keeping things off of multicarts for the Atari game systems, but that is not true. Those carts have both technical limitations and price-point limitations. As does any product, really. "Everything" is always a very elusive goal! Having said all that, let me say this... I really don't anticipate many "deal killing" problems at this point, with the Bally multicart. Here are the numbers that I have right now... The EPROM memory chip that I am using will hold 512k bytes (524,288 bytes, or half a megabyte, or eight megabits) of program code. The largest cartridge program for the Bally is 8192 bytes. That means I could hold 64 of those programs on one multicart, if they were all 8k in size. Some are smaller; there are currently 20 programs of 2k total size, and 30 programs of 4k total size. Right now, if I include every single program I have a ROM image for, I have at least 68k left over. (Assuming the recent memory addressing solution works as I hope it does, and it probably will.) I really have more space than that; the 68k figure includes non-runnable images like the BIOS chips, and four or five versions of Muncher. There should be ample to include the rest of whatever shows up, that was officially being made, etc. Also, I have enough DIP switches on the cart to allow 128 programs total, with only 73 being used. Plenty of space, in that department. In other words, it isn't time to panic, just yet. There is room left over, at this point. But space *is* getting tight, so a continued discussion is probably in order? Any other thoughts are welcome. Ward Shrake From mcgrail0007@n... Sat Sep 29 09:11:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mcgrail0007@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 29 Sep 2001 16:09:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 4087 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2001 16:09:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 29 Sep 2001 16:09:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Sep 2001 16:11:03 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mcgrail0007@n... Received: from [10.1.10.94] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 29 Sep 2001 16:00:02 -0000 Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 15:59:59 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Astrocade Multicart Message-ID: <9p4r5v+417t@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1340 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.208.43.169 From: mcgrail0007@n... I personally feel that all the original carts released by Bally or Astrovsion should be included on the multicart. I also think that Treasure Cove, Blast Droids, Ms. Candyman, Seas Devil, Sneaky Snake, Soccer, Checkers, Bowling, Muncher or Pacman (only one version), Mazeman, Test, Demo, Coloring Book, and the Basic Demo should be included. If there is space I think Conan the Barbarian (not finished)and Missile Attack (hard to control)should be on there. I personally did not care for Video Story Book or Life, but I am sure there are collectors who would like to see these as well. Machine Language Manager would be difficult to use without the manual and Music Maker would need the tape interface. If there is space I would like to see the Basic programs on the multicart as I don't own any of those programs and would like to without having to buy a ton of cartridges from Michael. Ward, I wanted to know if it would be possible that instead of using dip switches on the cart to instead use the menu that is already included on the Astrocade. I am not a technical expert so I have no idea how difficult this would be, but I thought it might be easier on the Astrocade because the system already comes with a built in menu. I don't want to add work to your project, but I thought it might be possible. Sean From ward.shrake@w... Sat Sep 29 11:01:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 29 Sep 2001 18:01:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 22443 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2001 18:01:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 29 Sep 2001 18:01:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Sep 2001 18:00:47 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.4.81] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 29 Sep 2001 17:51:21 -0000 Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 17:51:20 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Image Inclusion and More Message-ID: <9p51mo+3poh@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1503 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.236 From: "Ward Shrake" --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: (snip) > Creating a device like the Intellicart has been discussed by > non-technical people (like myself) before. The Blue Ram does > this already (same result, different means). How many people > would REALLY buy an AstrocadeCart (if there were such a > thing)? It wouldn't be cheap. >From time to time, people mention the CuttleCart, the IntelliCart or similar devices, and ask if I could make one of those for the Bally system. The short answer is "no". When Adam says they would not be cheap, he is not kidding. Keep in mind that there are enough users for the Atari 2600 and/or Intellivision systems, that a person can count on 100 or so of those devices to be made and sold at $100 per unit, give or take. My guess is that there are only 10 or 20 people that would buy an Astrocade equivalent, maybe 30 at most. Using the same break-even point, the Astrocade user's final price per unit would then end up being between three and ten times as expensive, or $300 to $1,000 per unit. (Do the math yourself; fewer buyers equals higher cost. No way around it.) I don't know of a single person that would pay that amount, let alone many people, making it financially impossible to do that project. Realistically, people complain now that the hand-made multicart will cost them $100! So forget about anyone ever making an IntelliCart for the Astrocade. It just ain't gonna happen. Sorry, but that's life. Ward Shrake From ward.shrake@w... Sat Sep 29 11:10:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 29 Sep 2001 18:10:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 87116 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2001 18:10:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 29 Sep 2001 18:10:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Sep 2001 18:10:52 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.124] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 29 Sep 2001 18:10:16 -0000 Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 18:10:13 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Astrocade Multicart Message-ID: <9p52q5+jhe2@e...> In-Reply-To: <9p4r5v+417t@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2297 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.236 From: "Ward Shrake" --- In ballyalley@y..., mcgrail0007@n... wrote: (snip) > Ward, I wanted to know if it would be possible that instead > of using dip switches on the cart to instead use the menu > that is already included on the Astrocade. I am not a > technical expert so I have no idea how difficult this would > be, but I thought it might be easier on the Astrocade because > the system already comes with a built in menu. I don't want > to add work to your project, but I thought it might be > possible. I realize that it would be a nice thing to have, but for numerous technical and price-point related reasons, it is just not possible. The only way to have any kind of menu-based interface would be for me to learn Z80 machine code, and the Bally's innermost architecture, to be able to program a large, custom menu program. I would also have to run some sort of a data cable from the cart port itself to the 50-pin port on the back of the Astrocade, since the necessary lines are not included at the cartridge port. The first program on the cart would have to "manually" operate the interface lines there, to act as the upper address lines and do what the DIP switches are doing now. The hardware parts necessary for a DIP switch system cost me $5 or so per unit, which is a cost I can easily pass on to an end user. The huge amounts of time required for me to learn Z80 coding and so on, coupled with the extra hardware required, makes this impossible. If ten people are willing to spend $500 per unit to have that feature on their multicarts, that would make it marginally worth it to me. But we all know that's never going to happen in a million years. As I mentioned before, people already complain that $100 per unit is too much, so any type of "added feature" thinking is just not gonna work out in real life. End users won't pay anything more for those features, and I'm not in a financial position to give away any more free design time than I already have, let alone any added hardware. Sorry, but this idea is dead and buried, as far as I'm concerned. No offense meant, but as I said in my Multicart FAQ, be glad you guys have a person that is willing to do a multicart at all given the Bally's obscurity. Take what you can get, and be grateful to have it. Ward Shrake From ballyalley@h... Sat Sep 29 11:53:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 29 Sep 2001 18:51:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 12303 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2001 18:51:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 29 Sep 2001 18:51:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.185) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Sep 2001 18:53:07 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 29 Sep 2001 11:53:07 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 Sep 2001 18:53:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Let's include ALL cart images, for certain Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 11:53:07 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2001 18:53:07.0472 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA40F100:01C14917] From: "Adam Trionfo" Let's Include All Cart Images I know Sean is not attacking MLM; he is in fact voting for it to be included on the Bally multicart. Though not directly stated, he is right, not all the programs are good, but I think that EVERY cart or unfinished cart should be included, no matter what the argument is against it. I could defend any cartridge. For instance: Who is going to use a cartridge like Machine Language Manager? Probably the same person that uses the calculator on the Astrocade just to try it. I know for certain that even the calculator came in handy at an SC3 meeting (if you can believe it). I've used MLM myself (to a VERY kimited extent). It answers one of the most frequently asked questions, "what does the small-font set look like?" MLM is the only cart that can show any user this font because it requires not RAM expansion. How about this: are there any non-cart programs that people want to see? Adam Trionfo - Sept. 29, 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Sat Sep 29 12:40:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 29 Sep 2001 19:40:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 9486 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2001 19:40:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Sep 2001 19:40:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.129) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Sep 2001 19:40:50 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 29 Sep 2001 12:40:50 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 Sep 2001 19:40:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: On the Bally BASIC ROM Demo Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 12:40:50 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2001 19:40:50.0461 (UTC) FILETIME=[A4BA64D0:01C1491E] From: "Adam Trionfo" On the Bally BASIC ROM Demo It is an 8K ROM and the program is written in BASIC. Yes, we've heard that BASIC program can be included on cartridge. This was "discovered" in about 1985. The demo cartridge is an official Bally cart and was released in about 1978. I now have the printout of the BASIC program that Michael White pulled from the ROM; it is about three and a half pages long. I am surprised at this. Michael is AMAZED. "Someone at Bally always knew how to do this," he says. Yes, SEVEN years before home-brewers discovered how. Here are the first five lines: 1 . 2 . 3 . 4 .BALLY BASIC ROM DEMO 5 .IPI Some observations on this: 1) Michael figures "IPI" is the author. I agree. Anyone else have another idea? Who might this person be (presuming it IS the author)? 2) Notice anything strange about the first three lines? If you've programmed in Bally BASIC you might remember cutting back on the REM statements ('.' is the equivalent), or not using comments at all. Those first three lines are “wasted space.” You just can’t afford those bytes. Hmm. Michael is disassembling the ROM for other clues (he has suggested some already, but it would be premature to mention them). More as I hear it. Adam Trionfo - Sept. 29, 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From solder_guy@m... Sat Sep 29 19:56:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 30 Sep 2001 02:55:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 27138 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2001 02:55:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 30 Sep 2001 02:55:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail9.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 Sep 2001 02:56:53 -0000 Received: œby mail9.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA08902; Sat, 29 Sep 2001 19:56:52 -0700 Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 19:56:52 -0700 Message-Id: <200109300256.TAA08902@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [166.102.177.185] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ballyalley] Re: Image Inclusion and More From: "solder_guy Last Name" Re: Vectrex multicarts ... There is one all inclusive Vectrex Multicart .. by Sean Kelly ... and it has all games that are available for the Vectrex .. less some latest homebrew games made by John Dondzila ... and does not include the original Vectrex cart Animaction (which has built-in RAM). Also Chris Tumber does not permit his games to be put on multicarts .. he sells his own. The great thing about the Kelly Vectrex Multicart is that it is upgradeable to the latest games listing .. You send it back .. and Sean reprograms it with the latest menu list of games. A game is selected from an on-screen list of games .. so no dip switches .. The latest thing is a Vectrex RAM cart that can be programmed via a parallel or serial port. So any BIN file can be dumped to the Vectrex .. Similar to the Intellicart .. I guess. Now I do have the Cuttle Cart from Chad Schell .. It can play all the 2600 games .. all of them!!! 500+ .. except .. Pitfall II which has a special sound chip in that special cart. I look forward to the Astrocade multicart ... Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ward.shrake@w... Sun Sep 30 01:20:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 30 Sep 2001 08:20:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 36956 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2001 08:20:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Sep 2001 08:20:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 Sep 2001 08:20:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.4.66] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 30 Sep 2001 08:20:04 -0000 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 08:20:01 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Astrocade Multicart Message-ID: <9p6kjh+qb8l@e...> In-Reply-To: <9p52q5+jhe2@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 7690 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.22 From: "Ward Shrake" --- In ballyalley@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: (snip) > Take what you can get, and be grateful to have it. Mainly heading off a potential flame war, before it happens... Adam tells me that this earlier statement of mine sounds pretty defensive and/or may be offensive to some people? It wasn't meant that way, but I can see how it could look that way, upon reading it again. I was simply running late for a social event this morning, and brevity sometimes ends up sounding harsh. My sincere and humble apologies to anyone bothered by that statement or any other I've made in the past. Let me say this, as sort of a blanket CYA statement: I'm really not looking for a fight. And I do want people to express their opinions and/or their feelings or thoughts or whatever. I do want feedback. If I don't agree with something, that's my problem. Tough luck to me. Say what you want to say, ask what you want to ask. Feel free to give all the input you want in regards to this subject. Its a public forum. Part of the problem with this whole communication thing is that I've taken the time to write a detailed FAQ about both of the Multicarts that I'm making, but I often get the very strong sense that people are not reading it? They ask questions I've already answered, as if I've never addressed the subject before. My future solution is just to print the URL to that document at the bottom of each of my posts, in the signature area, and maybe to post a link to it under "files". That way, I've at least done my part of the communication exchange, and I'm not wasting my time or any web bandwidth, repeating myself? The two questions that were asked were legit questions, but were more or less already answered in my Multicart FAQ. I have clearly defined reasons why I made the design decisions that I made, and it is all clearly spelled out in the (admittedly still growing) Multicart FAQ. (I do plan to go back and answer those specific questions in the FAQ.) Let me add one new piece of information, so that people can put this all in greater perspective. I've been taking "orders" and/or verbal expressions of interest in this project, since long before CGE 2001. I sent two multicarts to CGE, and showed them off at SC3 before that. I've done what I could to spread the word that both an Astrocade and an Emerson multicart were going to be produced and sold to others. I will grant that I have not killed myself promoting these, but the news of their availability is out there among the retrogaming public. In the six weeks since CGE, exactly two people have said that they definitely want an Emerson multicart, but not a Bally multicart. Not twenty, not two hundred, not two thousand; exactly two people. If I go over my lists and start bugging people, I might be able to get a few more, but for the most part the hardcore guys have "everything" already and therefore don't really "need" a multicart. Even if I doubled or tripled those numbers, they are still hopelessly low? If the Emerson cart was a project about profit, I'd have abandoned it almost instantly! Any sane person would!? There isn't enough interest to warrant even the time that I've already spent on that project, let alone to pour more weeks or months into it, to add in those neat little on-screen menus? And yet I've chosen to go ahead with the Emerson cart anyway, even if only two hardcore fans really want it. I think that alone shows a darned fine, very giving attitude on my part? Six other people said they want a Bally multicart, but did not want one for the Emerson. That tells me there are precisely six truly hardcore fans of the Bally Astrocade that I'm aware of, right now. Again, I could probably raise those numbers with a huge effort on my part. Why? Why would I want to pressure people into buying one of these carts? If they don't want one now, who am I to apply pressure? Nine other people said they have some interest in buying one of each of these multicarts, for a total of eighteen seperate multicarts. It doesn't take a genius to see that if the vast majority of the folks who claim to want one of these multicarts, want both carts at the same time, they mostly want them because they're "collectable". This shouldn't take a brain surgeon to figure out, but just in case I had a chance of missing that idea, I've been told that directly by some of the guys that want to buy these items. That in turn tells me that these people have little interest in these items, per se. Which in turn tells me that the value of these items would not go up or down at all in the eyes of these people, just because I added things like fancy onscreen menus. I'd be wasting my time, in a collector's eyes? Another thing to keep in mind is that from what I'm hearing from a number of people is that a goodly amount of these obvious collectors do not even own a working game system to play these multicarts on. Would you bust your butt and put your life on hold, to make some toy for someone that was just going to sit in a box, collecting dust? Or worse yet, have that sold-at-a-loss object resold on eBay instantly? Do the math, and you'll see that the sum total of many weeks of effort on my part adds up to just twenty-six orders, total, spread across two completely different multicarts. That is NOT impressive! Let's face the hard facts here; that is NOWHERE near enough interest for any commercial project. If any of this was about "profit" I'd be certifiably insane to go ahead with either one of these multicarts? And yet I'm doing just that; I'm making them anyway. I want the few dollars I insist upon from the labor hours it will take me to make each of these; if you read the Multicart FAQ, you'll see why. But beyond that lone concession to financial responsibility and good time management, these multicarts essentially boil down to just gifts. The only reason I'm able to, is because I know how to make boards at home, one at a time. This project would be dead in the water for all time, if I had to pay a commercial firm to create PC boards for me. That is what kept others from making these multicarts, for decades. So, to sum up, what I should have said earlier was not "take what you can get and be grateful for it". What I should have said was that it is considered very impolite to "look a gift horse in the mouth". I do not blame anyone for asking "can we get more than you're offering?" I would offer more if I was in a position to, but I'm not. That's life. If I sound like an a--hole to anyone, I'm truly sorry. I'm just being as much of a nice guy as I can afford to be, while trying to protect my own financial future, and to manage my time and resources well. I will close with this... one of the main reasons that I'm taking the time to spelling all of this out in such detail, is for the benefit of anyone else that might want to make some sort of a homebrewed game project, with the idea of making copies to sell to the public. As has been seen in the recent past on rec.games.video.classic, the dreams a person has of creating some neat little trinket that others will presumably praise you for making, and thank you for making, often quickly turn into a horrible nightmare, instead. (Think Tim Snider for one example, but others are just as legitimate.) I don't want other potential future homebrewers stepping on land mines. They are out there. Failure to recognize that fact reduces a person's odds that they'll meet their planned goals, and end up happy at the end. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ text: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Sun Sep 30 01:25:27 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 40204 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2001 08:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Sep 2001 08:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.92) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 Sep 2001 08:25:27 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.103] by jk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 30 Sep 2001 08:25:27 -0000 Date: 30 Sep 2001 08:25:26 -0000 Message-ID: <1001838326.230.44228.sd@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Notify: From: To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley group. File : /Multilnk.txt Uploaded by : ward.shrake@w... Description : Link to the Multicart FAQ text You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/Multilnk.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ward.shrake@w... From ballyalley@h... Sun Sep 30 11:37:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 30 Sep 2001 18:37:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 64549 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2001 18:37:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 30 Sep 2001 18:37:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.75) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 Sep 2001 18:37:30 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 30 Sep 2001 11:37:29 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 30 Sep 2001 18:37:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: On the Updated Multicart FAQ Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 11:37:29 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Sep 2001 18:37:29.0893 (UTC) FILETIME=[F5D37D50:01C149DE] From: "Adam Trionfo" On the Updated Multicart FAQ Ward Shrake has been providing information about the Bally multicart to this discussion group for months. He has been keeping us well informed with the project. Today he has updated his multicart FAQ again (http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm); an immense amount of thought has been put into this revision. Any question that has popped up over the lasts few months has been answered in full. It is not a short FAQ (it uses “maximum verbosity;” in a good way). In addition to answering the common questions (and the not so common ones), there is background information on both of his current multicart projects. Any member of this discussion board can appreciate what this FAQ covers. Don’t miss it. Adam Trionfo - September 30, 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From cybpunks@h... Tue Oct 02 23:48:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 3 Oct 2001 06:47:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 91838 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2001 06:47:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 3 Oct 2001 06:47:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Oct 2001 06:48:55 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.121] by n29.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Oct 2001 06:48:55 -0000 Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 06:48:53 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Update Message-ID: <9peccl+d01q@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 777 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 4.33.172.103 From: "Glenn Saunders" Sounds good. When time is limited, writing efficient flexible code gives the most bang for the buck. If you intend to support other tape formats in the future it will really pay off. << Just wanted to update everyone on my progress with "ballywav". I was pretty unhappy with how sloppy my code was, so I started over... well kind of. I really want to make the code flexible enough that it can be reused for the Atari 2600 and any other tape remastering. The code is in c++ and I redesigned the objects to be very flexible. I only get to work on this in my free time, which is pretty tight right now. I am exploring Glenn's suggestion of using XML, if I can find a free, easy to use XML c++ library, I will use it. I'm not that far in my rewrite yet though. >> From cybpunks@h... Wed Oct 03 11:51:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 3 Oct 2001 18:49:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 47020 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2001 18:49:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 3 Oct 2001 18:49:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.45) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Oct 2001 18:50:59 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.122] by n6.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Oct 2001 18:50:59 -0000 Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 18:50:57 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Image Inclusion and More Message-ID: <9pfmmh+76gl@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1869 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.75 From: "Glenn Saunders" << can give it a whirl. [I hope Chad isn't reading this=85 or maybe I=20 hope that=20 he is?] >> We've got a problem because most casual classic gamers do not have=20 Astrocades. They know about them, but they aren't lying around in=20 their closets like the 3 major platforms (2600, Intellivision,=20 Colecovision). So you need to generate an excitement in the platform=20 to get them to pluck one off of Ebay and start tinkering with it. Multicarts are easier to build, that's for sure, and can help get the=20 existing catalog into gamers, which could increase interest in the=20 platform somewhat, but if we're talking about fostering homebrew game=20 development, I think an updated Blue Ram type device that plugs into=20 the expansion port is better (not that they are mutually exclusive).=20=20 As previously discussed, there is the possibility that with more=20 memory, you could kick the Astrocade into hires mode. I don't think=20 that's been debunked yet, so I still think it's possible, even though=20 worst case it may mean some kind of internal modification like an OS=20 ROM swap. I think increasing the capabilities of the Astrocade via more memory=20 and making it convenient to debug programs are two key points=20 necessary to generating interest with homebrew developers. Regarding the compilation CD, what's the status of the copyrights?=20=20 Can we track down the remnants of Astrovision in order to make way=20 for a CD? The audio portion of the CD would, without extra hardware,=20 only work with BallyBasic programs, and the data portion would have=20 games for the emulator. So ideally a CD release should coincide with=20 a hardware device so that games of all sizes can load into the real=20 hardware. A CD would be more economical than a multicart, and while=20 the hardware expansion would be an expensive device, it would have=20 more utility in the long run vs. a multicart. From cybpunks@h... Wed Oct 03 12:58:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 3 Oct 2001 19:58:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 66698 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2001 19:58:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2001 19:58:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.92) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Oct 2001 19:58:26 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.4.68] by n14.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Oct 2001 19:58:26 -0000 Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 19:58:21 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: What to do Message-ID: <9pfqkt+jhg2@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3794 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.75 From: "Glenn Saunders" Ward, you shouldn't be looking at the present situation as static and unchanging. That's rather fatalistic. Just because only 2 people were interested in a Bally multicart today does not mean that interest will never increase in the future. I really feel interest in playing and developing for an old platform is a CULT phenomenon. It's something that sparks up due to the right catalyst. I think more than anything else what this group should be about is finding that catalyst. With increased interest, all the other stuff falls into place. Every move that Bally fans make can contribute to increased interest. That might mean someone has to take a risk by producing a product with no initial demand. That's the "if you build it, they will come" mentality. You have to understand the classic gamer mentality. Classic gamers like unique items. That's why they are lining up to buy VCSp's at hundreds of dollars a pop, or lining up to buy nothing but nicely- packaged pirate carts at CGExpo. If you give them something with a high degree of "cool-factor", people will buy it. Really, people have to become Astrocade evangelists. Eventually it will become self-sustaining. It's hard making the first few steps. In the last 5 years we've seen a huge improvement in 2600 emulators, 2600 ROM preservation, 2600 homebrewing, and better and more active 2600 websites and discussion groups. This has happened because of the individual contributions of hundreds of people over a long period of time. I can't claim that Cyberpunks and Stellalist are uniquely responsible for that, but it was a major role, and the CD was an early catalyst. I think the same can be done with the Astrocade, but someone has to produce something of compelling value in order to jumpstart the userbase. It's not really going to be the leftover carts and consoles on Ebay that increases demand. It's going to be flashy websites like Atari Age chocked full of content and community discussions. It's going to be a high-quality multimedia compilation CD like the Stella CD or Intellivision Lives, or a kick-ass piece of expansion hardware you can play all the games or your own games on. It's going to be a daughtercard A/V mod to clean up the Astrocade's picture and output composite and Y/C. It's going to be something NEW that we create that envigorates the platform. It seems to me that the Astrocade is easier to obtain than a Vectrex, so if it were seen as unique a platform as a Vec, it might see similar interest levels in the community. The Astrocade has two qualities that could make it more interesting than the VCS: 1) It's obscurity. Obscurity means a multicart or a compilation CD might be accepted better because people will not have played these games to death already. It's also uncharted territory for homebrew developers who might be starting to get tired of the 2600 or the Vectrex. (As unusual as the 2600 is, it's hardware is not as mysterious as it used to be.) It's also a lot of untold history that would be interesting to fans of game history who have already heard it all about the other platforms. 2) It's expandability. The Astrocade never got huge games like the 2600 did with things like Solaris and Fatal Run. Its maximum capabilities have yet to be fully explored. Excitement in the platform could be generated if a really advanced game were written for it that was on par or superior to titles you'd expect to find on a Colecovision or even an NES. So I really think people should slow down and not expect an Astrocade "market" to be there already. It will take time. Let those who are really emphatic in their support of the platform make the first moves and then we'll see how well classic gamers respond. From lance@a... Wed Oct 03 15:36:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 3 Oct 2001 22:36:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 48478 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2001 22:36:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 3 Oct 2001 22:36:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail26.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.16) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Oct 2001 22:36:19 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail26.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011003223618.TBHY14306.femail26.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 15:36:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3BBB8F3D.8040809@a...> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 18:20:45 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] What to do References: <9pfqkt+jhg2@e...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" Glenn Saunders wrote: > Ward, you shouldn't be looking at the present situation as static and > unchanging. That's rather fatalistic. > > Just because only 2 people were interested in a Bally multicart today > does not mean that interest will never increase in the future. > > I really feel interest in playing and developing for an old platform > is a CULT phenomenon. It's something that sparks up due to the right > catalyst. > I'm sold! :) Seriously, I've been thinking something along these lines for s while. Besides trying to expand the HTML FAQ, I've also got some projects I'm looking into. Nothing worth showing/talking about yet.... Will keep you's posted. Updated some of the unit pictures on the FAQ btw. Lance F. Squire http://www.alteeve.com/~lance/Ballyfaq.html From lance@a... Wed Oct 03 18:06:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 4 Oct 2001 01:06:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 90531 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 01:06:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Oct 2001 01:06:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail37.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.31) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 01:06:18 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail37.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011004010618.VIOH10339.femail37.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 18:06:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3BBBB264.8020008@a...> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 20:50:44 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Picture request Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" I was woundering if some members could send me good pictures of: Bally/Home Library computer box Bally/Professional arcade box Astrocade box I have an Astrovision box. These are for inclusion in the HTML FAQ in a new section. Thanks Lance From solder_guy@m... Wed Oct 03 18:29:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 4 Oct 2001 01:27:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 40048 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 01:27:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 4 Oct 2001 01:27:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail11.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 01:29:42 -0000 Received: (from www@l...) by mail11.bigmailbox.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f941Tgg05118; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 18:29:42 -0700 Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 18:29:42 -0700 Message-Id: <200110040129.f941Tgg05118@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [166.102.177.156] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] What to do From: "solder_guy Last Name" >>The Astrocade has two qualities that could make it more interesting than the VCS:<< Plus the coolest controllers ever made .. and four can be plugged in at the same time! Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Thu Oct 04 09:50:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 4 Oct 2001 16:48:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 24301 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 16:48:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 4 Oct 2001 16:48:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.40) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 16:50:22 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 09:50:22 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:50:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Text formatting (Zero Strike-through) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 09:50:22 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Oct 2001 16:50:22.0763 (UTC) FILETIME=[A89C47B0:01C14CF4] From: "Adam Trionfo" This question may not seem Astrocade related, but it will help me, and others, when I upload some Astrocade text files soon. The number '0' and the letter 'O' will eternally be confused. A zero with a strike-through is a great way to tell the difference. This seemed common on the 8-bit computers but has fallen out of favor. Does anyone know of a common font (for Windows) that has a zero with a strike-though? The font needs to be mono-spaced (like courier). I'm asking so that when I print upper-case text files of source-code, I will not be confused. Besides a different font, is there a way to force a printer (in my case a Laserjet 6L) to do this? A remember some dot-matrix printers had this option, maybe some still do (in software?). Anyone have a solution? Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ward.shrake@w... Thu Oct 04 11:45:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 4 Oct 2001 18:42:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 22804 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 18:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 4 Oct 2001 18:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.135) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 18:45:01 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.105] by n27.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Oct 2001 18:45:01 -0000 Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:44:57 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: What to do Message-ID: <9pian9+5h95@e...> In-Reply-To: <9pfqkt+jhg2@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 14223 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.179 From: "Ward Shrake" Fair warning: Please take what I'm about to say as playing Devil's Advocate, and try not to get hurt or offended by any of it, folks... --- In ballyalley@y..., "Glenn Saunders" wrote: > Ward, you shouldn't be looking at the present situation as static > and unchanging. That's rather fatalistic. Fatalistic or simply realistic? The Bally system died many years ago, not once but twice. If Bally and Astrocade both couldn't survive in their markets, what makes anyone think that we few can do something that they could not? (Astrocade was a fan-based company, after all.) However politically incorrect it may be of me to say so, how is it unrealistic of me to think that a third resurrection of major, kick- ass proportions is extremely unlikely? Even if every retrogamer on the net suddenly jumped all over the Astrocade, that's maybe two to three hundred total users, as opposed to tens of thousands back in the day. History says the safest bet is that things stay just as they are, or that maybe they'll go back to where they once were, but will never rise any higher than that. I would say the numbers support me? I still say the system will never become as popular as the Atari is now. According to Michael White's best information, there were maybe 100,000 Astrocades ever made compared to between 12 and 25 million units of the Atari 2600. Everyone and their brother once had a 2600; almost no one was even aware the Astrocade system even existed, let alone had one. My own opinion is that the Bally system is no more than one-tenth as popular as the 2600, and even if 500% growth was to happen, that's still only half of the 2600's current popularity. Furthermore, I'll say this... as one of the people most actively archiving things for the Emerson and Bally systems, I'd have to say that it is hard just GIVING these ROM images away, for free! Most people simply don't care to have them, even at no cost to them. I say this because I tried to give them to a number of ROM-oriented web sites for distribution, over the years, and none of them "bit". This has been going on since "Dave's Classics" was a huge deal, years ago; even when he was posting ROMs of everything under the sun, he basically just ignored updating his pages for the Emerson. Good luck finding a public Bally ROM site? The interest just is not there. > Just because only 2 people were interested in a Bally multicart > today does not mean that interest will never increase in the future. Well, actually you misread my earlier quote; that figure was for the Emerson system, not for the Bally. But the figures I gave for the Bally weren't much higher; six people that would pay for a Bally Astrocade multicart, but that did not want to collect both carts. Even if it were sixty people, that is still perfectly in line with my "only one-tenth to half as popular as the 2600" theory. Hardware for the 2600 sell in the hundreds of units, as does hardware for the Vectrex. The Intellivision is up around 100 or so, as far as I know. The Bally seems mired at just tens of units, the Emerson even less. As a person that used to do statistical analysis for the military, I would say that all of these trends closely follow the same pattern, and that all of these numbers are very consistent. Wishful thinking aside, the Bally is just far less popular now, and it always has been. > I really feel interest in playing and developing for an old > platform is a CULT phenomenon. It's something that sparks > up due to the right catalyst. Glenn, I like you, but I think that you're smoking something illegal where this subject is concerned. I said on "rec.games.video.classic" a month or so ago, and still believe today, that the support base for the Atari 2600 is there now because interest in the system always was there. I don't see that anything ever changed? On the contrary, many people wanted to write games for the Atari 2600 back in the day. It just took them awhile to pool their resources, and actually do it. To say that the Atari 2600 lost and then regained popularity, isn't 100% accurate. It went dormant for awhile, but then rekindled later on. But it's rebirth was based on something that was there all along. You're saying that more interest can be created. Perhaps. I agree a rise of some measurable number is possible. We disagree as to the magnitude of that growth, or on the odds of any explosive growth. > That might mean someone has to take a risk by producing a product > with no initial demand. That's the "if you build it, they will > come" mentality. Which works great in the movies, but as empty strip malls all across this country can attest to, that isn't necessarily true in real life. > You have to understand the classic gamer mentality. Classic gamers > like unique items. That's why they are lining up to buy VCSp's at > hundreds of dollars a pop, or lining up to buy nothing but nicely- > packaged pirate carts at CGExpo. Again, that's the Atari 2600. You keep comparing apples and oranges to watermelons, Glenn. Face facts; everything here is scaled way down. > If you give them something with a high degree of "cool-factor", > people will buy it. That's not what the current survey on "AtariAge.com" says? Even over there, with a much larger user base, 29% of the 214 people responding said that they pay $0.00 dollars per month for new gaming items. An additional 30% said that they spend between $10 and $49 per month. In between, 12% said that they spend between $0.00 and $10 per month. > Really, people have to become Astrocade evangelists. Eventually it > will become self-sustaining. It's hard making the first few steps. Astrocade already tried this. It failed, and they went bankrupt. > In the last 5 years we've seen a huge improvement in 2600 > emulators, 2600 ROM preservation, 2600 homebrewing, and > better and more active 2600 websites and discussion groups. Glenn, this is why I'm posting here now, and why I posted to RGVC a month or so ago. I'm sick to death of having people compare apples to watermelons! It is a completely invalid comparison. Please strike the Atari 2600 from any future comparisons to systems that statistically only enjoy one tenth or less of their user base! Compare it to the RCA Studio II, the Channel F by Fairchild, or perhaps to the Mattel Aquarius, if you are trying to make a fair comparison. > This has happened because of the individual contributions of > hundreds of people over a long period of time. Which is precisely why I get upset, when these unfair comparisons are made. There are a dozen or fewer people actively supporting the Bally Astrocade. I'm doing my bit, Adam Trionfo is involved, Michael White has always been doing his bit, Frank Palazzolo's emulator helps... that's four people so far. We don't HAVE hundreds of others! Period. > I can't claim that Cyberpunks and Stellalist are uniquely > responsible for that, but it was a major role, and the CD was an > early catalyst. I think the same can be done with the Astrocade, > but someone has to produce something of compelling value in order > to jumpstart the userbase. Again, Astrocade already tried and failed. History has spoken. > It's not really going to be the leftover carts and consoles on Ebay > that increases demand. It's going to be flashy websites like Atari > Age chocked full of content and community discussions. It's going > to be a high-quality multimedia compilation CD like the Stella CD > or Intellivision Lives, or a kick-ass piece of expansion hardware > you can play all the games or your own games on. It's going to be > a daughtercard A/V mod to clean up the Astrocade's picture and > output composite and Y/C. It's going to be something NEW that we > create that envigorates the platform. In other words, a miracle. Would I like to see it happen? Sure. I am just not going to hold my breath, waiting for it to do so. When you can name the people that are involved, and you run out of names before ten are mentioned, the odds are not good that any or all of this are ever going to happen. I'm saying what I'm saying, because I know for a fact that I've done just about everything that I plan to do, in classic gaming circles. I can't see martyr-ing myself for the Astrocade cause? Nor do I see the already-over-burdened handful of other involved people being able to suddenly quadruple their output, and save the day. We all have lives. > It seems to me that the Astrocade is easier to obtain than a > Vectrex, At the risk of making this sound like a personal attack, what are you basing that on? I'd say the opposite was true. I only see a handful of Astrocades up for sale on eBay, and many of those do not work. In part this is because everyone that finds a Vec in the wild knows it is worth $100 or so to some other collector. That isn't necessarily the case with the Astrocade. "What's this?" is a more likely response to a Bally Astrocade, when some classic gamer finds one in the wild. > so if it were seen as unique a platform as a Vec, it might see > similar interest levels in the community. Again, the Vectrex was always in demand with hardcore guys like us, even back in the day, so I don't see that the comparison is really valid. But I do agree that this "cool" and "unique" thing is what will attract at least a few new converts to the Astrocade system. > The Astrocade has two qualities that could make it more interesting > than the VCS: > > 1) It's obscurity. > > Obscurity means a multicart or a compilation CD might be accepted > better because people will not have played these games to death > already. It's also uncharted territory for homebrew developers who > might be starting to get tired of the 2600 or the Vectrex. (As > unusual as the 2600 is, it's hardware is not as mysterious as it > used to be.) It's also a lot of untold history that would be > interesting to fans of game history who have already heard it all > about the other platforms. Obscurity is both a blessing and a curse. Your examples assume that after people have their fill of others systems, they will seek out things they have not played with yet. I believe that may be true, but these people could also seek new hobbies entirely, just as easily. The example assumes a lifelong commitment to the retrogaming scene? One thing that has become very clear to me over the years is that at least a few people do seek out obscure things. (I'm one of them.) I intentionally chose the Commodore VIC-20, then the Emerson Arcadia 2001, then the Bally Astrocade and the AdventureVision for my self- imposed archiving chores. This gives me a great deal of perspective. In talking to the hardcore folks for these obscure systems, I have discovered that most of them are attracted to these particular old systems BECAUSE they are obscure among retrogamers. In talking to folks over the years, I've seen the consistent idea that once these systems become "popular" to the degree that they are accepted more readily by the main group, the systems lose their initial attraction to these hardcore folks. Some of whom lose all interest, and move on. Glenn's example assumes that everyone that initially is attracted, will stay. That's simply not true. The user base moves both ways. Sustain-ability is not an absolute; it is an unknown, a big variable. > 2) It's expandability. > > The Astrocade never got huge games like the 2600 did with things > like Solaris and Fatal Run. Its maximum capabilities have yet to > be fully explored. Excitement in the platform could be generated > if a really advanced game were written for it that was on par or > superior to titles you'd expect to find on a Colecovision or even > an NES. I don't want to beat up on every one of Glenn's ideas, but I still think that waiting for this is expecting a lot, given the situation. I think some growth is possible; a "killer ap" would certainly help. I just don't know who specifically is going to do it, and therefore doubt it will be done. (Again, Astrocade already thought of all this.) > So I really think people should slow down and not expect an > Astrocade "market" to be there already. I have to assume this means me? If so, I'm fine with the idea of the Astrocade being obscure enough that there is no real market for stuff like a multicart. My time is limited anyway; I can only do so much! > It will take time. Granted. > Let those who are really emphatic in their support of the platform > make the first moves and then we'll see how well classic gamers > respond. Ah, the heart of the matter. My question is simple, "who exactly are we discussing here?" Are we in essence waiting for some unknown equivalent of the Astrocade Messiah to come back to Earth, and rescue us all from the pains of obscurity? If so, I'm not holding my breath. Again, my intent here is simply to play Devil's Advocate. I think that Glenn's ideas sound appealing, but upon closer examination I find that they have no realistic foundation under them. Until and unless we can point directly to the person who is going to do all these marvelous things, it is all just a bunch of wishful thinking. My point of posting all of this was not to make anyone feel badly. My point was to protect myself from having others looking to me, and expecting me to be that Astrocade Messiah. I don't want that job! And I do not know of anyone else that wants it, either? That level of expectation is just far too much responsibility, with no realistic chance of a fair return on the investment? It is simply work, instead of trying to enjoy a hobby. I'm here for fun, not to do unpaid work. I am already doing all I can do, under the circumstances of my own real life. I'm already giving all that I am able to give. Period. So is Adam Trionfo. So is Michael White. So is Frank Palazzolo. If none of us can snap our fingers and find the time, money, and motivation to "do more" for the Astrocade's cause, then who will? Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ... http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From cybpunks@h... Thu Oct 04 14:29:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 4 Oct 2001 21:27:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 48724 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 21:27:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 4 Oct 2001 21:27:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 21:29:33 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.99] by n29.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Oct 2001 21:29:32 -0000 Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 21:29:29 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: What to do Message-ID: <9pikbp+scbs@e...> In-Reply-To: <200110040129.f941Tgg05118@m...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 485 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.75 From: "Glenn Saunders" << Plus the coolest controllers ever made .. and four can be plugged in at the same time! >> Not only that, but if the controllers can be configured as both input and output then I bet if you used ports 3 and 4 together you could wire up an 8-bit bidirectional serial port to the Astrocade which could be used with Astrocade programs/games while still allowing for 2 players. That has a lot of potential for interfacing without even looking at the cart or expansion slots. From cybpunks@h... Thu Oct 04 15:23:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 4 Oct 2001 22:23:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 90460 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 22:22:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 4 Oct 2001 22:22:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.82) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 22:22:59 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.4.65] by n22.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Oct 2001 22:22:59 -0000 Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 22:22:57 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: What to do Message-ID: <9ping1+ca5e@e...> In-Reply-To: <9pian9+5h95@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2815 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.75 From: "Glenn Saunders" > Again, Astrocade already tried and failed. History has spoken. But history is in a new phase... As someone who has worked in the internet space since the summer of 1997, and been on the internet since 1994, I can say that "microniches" like these THRIVE on the internet. The internet helps special interests that would otherwise be too small measure gain prominence and sustain themselves on the internet. Instead of isolated pockets, the internet has a way to efficiently aggregate these niches of people into groups that can then do some cool stuff. I could go on Google right now and find websites devoted to stuff I thought nobody cared about anymore. The minimum number of people (global mind you) who are interested in something to be classified as a meaningful group is smaller than ever because of how easy it is to seek out others who share that interest. This has been a boon to, for instance, thousands of 'has-been' actors and musicians who still command a small but measurable pocket of fans across the globe. The same holds true for hobbies and collectibles. So any discussion of how the Astrocade failed within the marketplace of the early 80s really is missing the point. What we're really talking about is the zeitgeist of the internet. I see little distinction between the rise of classic gaming and the rise of the internet. The two are totally codependent. Search engines mulch over all websites on the internet in a way that exposes people to sites like so much supermarket checkout lanes. It has a way of bringing in new devotes at a slow but steady pace. So I would not be so pessimistic. If you don't want to make multicarts, don't. You've already done a lot to preserve the original games and over the long haul that contributes a lot to the cause. I have offered Adam to rebuild Bally Alley. If this is done the way I hope it can be done, I think over time it could help bring in some new people willing to do meaningful things with the platform. Maybe it won't work, but I think the theory is sound and it's worth a shot. I'm also glad that Bob Colbert has found the time to hack at the Bally tape format. You may think it's apples and oranges to compare to the 2600, but it's hard not to see _some_ parallels when Bob's doing the Makewav thing for the Bally. I would expect the Bally emulator to improve in the future also, which will all help set the stage for some interesting developments. Considering that John Dondzila actually made an O^2 cart, I think it's reasonable to think that some of the current people writing 2600 and Vec games might start writing Bally games down the road. And I'm definitely willing to encourage that to the 100+ members of Stellalist when the time is right. Just give it time and we'll see. From ward.shrake@w... Thu Oct 04 22:32:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 5 Oct 2001 05:30:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 18528 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 05:30:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 5 Oct 2001 05:30:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 05:32:23 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.96] by n5.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Oct 2001 05:32:23 -0000 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 05:32:19 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: What to do Message-ID: <9pjgl3+n4j7@e...> In-Reply-To: <9ping1+ca5e@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 10011 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.95 From: "Ward Shrake" Please, folks, don't misinterpret what I've said here. This is all just talk on a theoretical level -- just a philosophical discussion. I don't want people to "give up". I don't plan to "give up," myself. The multicart project will continue as planned. Other projects such as the MakeWave software will continue. Cool new things will happen. I'm not looking at the end of the road. I'm looking at the cracks in the sidewalk, right in front of me. Why? Because I can figure out how to step around those cracks, and take one single step forward. If enough of us take enough one step forward, we'll get to our end goal. But even so, personally I think that focusing on the end of the trip is wrong-headed. We ought to be focused on enjoying the trip itself? (Maybe that's just me, so on with the rest of it...) The gist of what I hope to get across here is the concept of positive motivation, versus simply feeling pressured into doing something. And how people with good intentions may simply be applying pressure to those that want to make cool new things, without even realizing that they're doing it? I want those end users to become more self-aware so that they stop pressuring others, and learn to motivate them well. The gist of my point essentially boils down to this... there are no such thing as "Internet Elves (tm)". Magical beings do not write emulators, build multicarts, archive carts, create CD's, and so on. People create these things. Specifically, individuals... not some strange, nebulous group of thousands of people you will never meet, but one person at a time, who "has a life" and limited resources. If you don't realize how pitifully small the "worker ant" group is, or how fragile their personalized, internal motivation is, you may be tempted to put a "wish list" of toys in front of them that is so hard to make into a reality, that they will become overwhelmed and quit. If you make it impossible to please them, they'll definitely quit! What motivates people to do unpaid things that others can enjoy? Fun. It has to be fun for those people, or they will stop doing it. Period. I want us all to really think about and examine the motivation of the people that are doing these cool projects. Why are they doing them in the first place? What would make it worth it to that individual to continue doing them? What will make them lose interest fast? What would make them quit entirely? Why would these things work this way with this one individual, and how might another person be different? If you tell a person "here's a ton of work we all want done, hurry up and finish it for us, you won't get a dime for doing any of it, and if you're lucky someone might say thanks at the end," they'll think you've lost your mind. They certainly won't do what you want them to! That's no way to motivate a person. That is simply applying pressure. If an unpaid person involved in some hobby pursuit wakes up one day thinking, "this isn't any fun for me anymore, this is just work that others are pressuring me to do," then that person will have quit before they've had their morning coffee. That's just human nature. At that point, what are you going to do to try to motivate them? Can you threaten to fire them? You can't fire someone that works for free; it is impossible. (Besides, that's pressure, not motivation.) Can you threaten to "not like them" or otherwise withhold your approval of them? They probably don't care what you think at that point anyway, so what good would that threat do? It's just pressure. The key is to figure out what motivates each individual worker ant. And when you're dealing with an obscure, low-interest item like the Bally, since there aren't many worker ants to begin with, if you lose just one of them it will make a measurable impact on future plans. Once you lose one of them, the remaining few folks are going to be pressured into picking up that slack, which in turn makes quitting sound like a good option. Attrition is bound to set in at some point? I realize that people may not mean to do all this? I realize that's not their intention, but that's what I see happening around me lately, in various places. And I know that once it is set in motion, that it will be almost impossible to stop that downward cycle? A good, semi-nuetral example might be John Dondzilla. People mention him all the time, when saying "look at what is possible". But I think they go into very dangerous territory when they take that further by making it clear that they expect him to write new games "forever"? I can't speak for John. I don't want to. But in my own mind, I can imagine that he most likely feels a lot of pressure from others to keep on doing what he has been doing -- writing software for just about every obscure and unpopular system under the sun, as well as writing code for things like the Vectrex? He has done it for years, so people just expect it of him now. They sit and wait to see his new stuff, apparently never giving any thought to the idea that maybe a life-long committment to any hobby is just too much to ask of anyone? The fantasy is, these people will keep doing it forever. The reality is, if they wake up one day to realize they no longer enjoy doing it, they'll quit the hobby entirely, and spend their time some other way. That might be scary and unpleasant, but it is certainly possible?! John does what he wants to, because it is fun to him. I say it is in the best interests of the gaming public to figure out what things uniquely motivates him, and to make sure that he gets lots of that?! Along those lines, ages ago I asked John to act like a rock star and autograph one of the magazine one of his early type-in programs was printed in. ("Compute!" magazine, January 1984, "Colorbot" program.) John acted like he was mildly uncomfortable with the idea, which in turn tells me that not many people work very hard to thank him? (I'm sure he gets a random "thank you" or two, but is that motivating in itself? Would you give up hundreds of hours of free time to get it?) How many people that buy Randy Crihfield's "Hozer Video" cartridges actually give any thought to the idea that there is only one guy that really does what Randy does, and that if he ever "goes away" that a huge part of the Atari 2600's current support structure evaporates into thin air, overnight? It's an unpleasant idea, but very possible. These guys don't really know it, but Bob Colbert and Sean Kelly and Randy Crihfield were a big help to me, when I decided to make my new multicarts. I "cheated" quite a bit, by reading what they'd decided to publish on their web sites (Bob) or what they gave me in person in the past. (Randy passed on plans for his single carts, and loaned me one of the first messed-up PC boards of an Atari multicart by Sean.) Had they not passed on their info so selflessly, I might have thought it was too much like work to make one of these, and never bothered? Let's try a few more examples, then I'll sum up why I'm saying this. Adam Trionfo has told me in the past that he got involved with the Bally simply because someone handed him a lot of Bally hardware, some time ago. He eventually decided that since he had lots of it, he should do something with it. So he picked some sub-area he felt might make him happy, and he set about doing that as one of his hobbies. Michael White told me that he would not be into the Bally at all, except for a random event. He walked into a Montgomery Ward's store back in the day, and saw a Bally Astrocade playing a Space Invaders cartridge. He said if it had been playing some other game instead, he would not have bought one, and wouldn't be involved with it today. Frank Palazzolo likes figuring technical things out. He wrote an emulator for the Bally Astrocade, and incorporated it into MESS, mainly for that reason. He's worked on a Channel F emulator, too, mostly because reverse-engineering things is enjoyable to him. Ward has made it no secret that his (my) archiving efforts on the Bally were almost an after-thought? I ran out of things to do with the systems that I did consciously pick to do Digital Archaeology on, such as the VIC-20, so I worked on the Bally when things got slow. I was actually giving thought to the Mattel Aquarius back then, but more or less at random, I decided to work on the Bally instead. Why am I mentioning all this? Because it shows that the motivation these people have is fragile at best. Because it shows that they could solve their cravings for their unique idea of what "fun" is, in dozens if not hundreds of other ways. Our motivation could just as easily be focused on something as random as the proverbial underwater basket weaving, or on collecting different varieties of pocket lint. There is nothing written in stone that says it must be Bally-related? Just some food for thought.... As scary or as unpleasant as these things might be, they are the truth, and they need to be considered. I think it is suicidal for the "we only consume" group to focus on what work needs to be done, to please their desire for consumption? Who cares what they want others to do for them, for free? Nobody but themselves, apparently. Thinking in those terms is no way to motivate your few worker ants?! That just puts pressure on the few people that might otherwise want to help create things. But those things have to be something that an individual worker ant wants to do, for no better reason than to please themselves by the process of doing it. If they decide to share with others, they should be supported, and thanked. And if they decide to quit at some point, and move on, don't think poorly of them. Be grateful for all that they did, not angry that they quit before they were able to complete somebody's wish list? Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ... http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Fri Oct 05 00:46:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 5 Oct 2001 07:44:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 86853 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 07:44:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 5 Oct 2001 07:44:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 07:46:56 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.32] by n18.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Oct 2001 07:46:56 -0000 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 07:46:56 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: What to do Message-ID: <9pjohg+hk13@e...> In-Reply-To: <9pjgl3+n4j7@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5323 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.125 From: "Ward Shrake" My apologies for not shutting up yet. I will, soon. :-) In fairness to Glenn, I do see a number of his points. I suppose that we disagree on how to get there, but want to see the same end results happen? For instance, Glenn's posts focused more on the perceived demand or popularity of a given retrogaming system, as it might be measured within the mind of a single human being. My posts focused more on the perceived demand or popularity of a given gaming system, as it might be seen by the public, enmasse. Not quite the same thing? I don't plan to re-argue any of my previous points. If it really comes down to it, I'd much rather "be friends" than "be right"? Glenn's idea of making an entire marketing strategy, to "re-sell" the idea of the Astrocade to the public, frankly scared the heck out of me. It sounded far too much like work, rather than fun? I'm not so hopelessly obsessed with any of this stuff that I want to try to sell the general public on some product that they've already turned down? This is, however, in no way a reflection of what a single retrogamer may think of the system? Proving "coolness" to just one person, is much more do-able. (And if I was to try to argue in favor of Glenn's point-of-view, perhaps that is what he was really trying to say?) If taken in that context, and for that reason alone, I can readily agree with Glenn's implied idea of having an organized list of cool ideas that someone should do or make for the Astrocade? As simply a list of cool things to have, without any pressure for any of we worker ants to actually start producing them, the idea is fine. I like it, and suggest that we as a group brainstorm up cool ideas. (However, if and when it suddenly becomes an "order list," then I'd have to go back to my earlier "panic mode," and run away screaming?) The reason is simple; each one of these things involves multiple sub- parts, any of which would take significant time and money to create or figure out. Add up all the sub-parts for each "cool factor" item, and you have a very non-motivating, "way too much already on my plate" scenario? The sheer size of most of these projects is going to be far too big for any one worker ant to want to accomplish alone, so I am proposing that we acknowledge that, and try to work around it. My proposal is simple; since we're obviously heading towards making a list of cool things that would be nice to have for the Bally system, let us also keep an organized list of those necessary sub-parts, as well, somewhere very visible to us all. To use my own "order list" metaphor, this could be compared to a checklist of small tasks that need to be done, to be able to accomplish each of these larger tasks. The idea is to shift the burden of an entire project from just one worker ant's back, to the combined backs of many worker ants. Each would have a smaller part, and by sharing, more would get done? One thing I expected Glenn to call me on, was tape archiving. (And he should have, but perhaps I was simply too rough on him? Sorry, Glenn!) I went out of my way to not touch that subject, when Glenn talked about making a "killer application" for the Bally system? My thinking is that there is little sense in creating a brand-new killer ap, when we know little or nothing about what's already out there? Perhaps no killer-ap type games exist in that library; that's conceivable? But there certainly has to be tons of ideas for homebrew coding efforts, stored within that software library? (A subroutine library of sorts?) Having a subroutine library of sorts, would almost be like Stellalist in terms of being able to help train others how to program the Bally? Glenn mentioned the recent homebrewed software efforts on the Atari 2600. He said there was a user base of hundreds of contributors. That's exactly what the Bally has had, during the 1980's? My argument that the Atari 2600 just went dormant, could easily apply in an effort to argue with myself, if we were discussing Bally tapes? (See, I am trying to be fair!) Adam already asked the group for help in archiving the tapes for this system. He has made the call, publicly, for helpers. He has also made it clear that without helpers, that he is not going to attempt it. I agree with him that it is just too big a task for any one worker ant. So if you guys are interested in doing more than talking in general terms, that's my suggestion: volunteer to help archiving tape games. Bob Colbert is obviously already working on this project. Adam said he would join in. Who else is willing to offer some of their time or their money to help with that particular project? Any volunteers? As for me, I began a tape list at one time, but it is years out of date now. Someone among you may want to take the raw tape list that I started ages ago, and work on completing that? If so, here it is: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/ballytap.htm >From there, others may want to start buying up or borrowing tapes? There has to be some small sub-task that people could volunteer for? An organized checklist of "how you can help" seems like a good idea to me, but an offer to simply help out as needed, is also welcome? Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ... http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Fri Oct 05 14:02:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 5 Oct 2001 21:02:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 10922 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 21:02:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Oct 2001 21:02:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.179) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 21:02:48 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 14:02:47 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 21:02:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Is it THE Bally Project? Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 14:02:47 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2001 21:02:47.0971 (UTC) FILETIME=[16455F30:01C14DE1] From: "Adam Trionfo" Is it THE Bally Project? Most all of the ideas that this group has discussed have been good. They are not all realistic, but just the act of talking about them is good. It keeps the air from becoming stagnant. Without new software, the Astrocade isn't going anywhere. It'll just be a dead system. I'd enjoy some BASIC games, they can be knocked out quickly, but they are not what I am looking for. More than anything else, what needs to be done to spark anything else off is: a machine language program that runs in the $2000 area on the Astocade. A cartridge. This cartridge doesn't need to be a game-- just a program. It could do my taxes for all I care-- I would be thrilled. Overwhelmed. Is there anyone reading this, ANYONE, that has Z-80 programming experience? I'm not asking for people to step forward to write anything. I just want to know. Who reads these messages? Adam Trionfo - October 5, 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Sat Oct 06 08:21:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 6 Oct 2001 15:21:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 61369 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 15:21:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Oct 2001 15:21:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.39) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 15:21:51 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 08:21:47 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 15:21:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Using all 4K of RAM for BASIC Carts Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 08:21:47 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Oct 2001 15:21:47.0641 (UTC) FILETIME=[9D608690:01C14E7A] From: "Adam Trionfo" Using all 4K of RAM for BASIC Carts Lance emailed me to ask what I thought about Astrocade BASIC cartridges using all 4K of RAM available. I think it deserves public attention, and therefore I am replying to the message board. Once it was learned in the mid-eighties how to take a 1.8 K BASIC program and put it on a cartridge, hackers (like Michael White) did talk about allowing BASIC to use all 4K of RAM from a cartridge. BASIC would have needed to be modified, of course. Examination of the Bally BASIC Demo cart by Michael White has already revealed that it is actually a BASIC game. What I have not said publicly is that the BASIC Demo is just eight bytes short of 4K. I've not said this because I am not sure how this works or any other details. I have asked Michael to write all that he knows about the BASIC Demo. From phone conversations I gather that BASIC was heavily modified, so much so that it is hampered to the degree that it would almost certainly work only with this BASIC Demo application. >From previous conversations with Michael I know that he feels it is possible to add four colors. This would be at the expense of losing some BASIC functions (like cassette controls, which would no longer be needed), and even adding some others (Snap and Show). The effort to do this steered people away from this modification, and so it was never done. This modification of BASIC is a neat idea but I would rather see effort on a true ML cartridge. What would be the gain of this BASIC modification now? Ease of use (over ML) and four colors. I don't see anyone standing in line to program the 1.8k version of BASIC right now, and it has been available since 1978, plus more colors are available via machine language, the additional two colors for BASIC isn't worth the time. Anyone see this differently or have anything to add? Adam Trionfo -- October 6, 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From cybpunks@h... Sat Oct 06 10:28:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 6 Oct 2001 17:25:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 58955 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 17:25:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 6 Oct 2001 17:25:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 17:28:06 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.2.25] by n29.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Oct 2001 17:28:05 -0000 Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 17:28:04 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Using all 4K of RAM for BASIC Carts Message-ID: <9pnev4+6im0@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 629 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 4.33.172.40 From: "Glenn Saunders" The problem is that the astrocade was only given enough RAM for graphics, and even then, not enough to fully utilize its own gfx chip. When you account for the 4-color bitmap minus a couple scanlines you only have about as much user RAM available as the 2600. If we need a RAM device of some sort then the logical solution is an expansion slot device. However, if we're talking low run it might be possible to hack Bally Basic carts in order to leverage the tape interface hardware and make them into a Bally Basic/ML loader (with a toggle switch). Even just a 4K RAM cart would allow for better user written games. From cybpunks@h... Sat Oct 06 11:02:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 6 Oct 2001 18:00:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 63298 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 18:00:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 6 Oct 2001 18:00:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.135) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 18:02:32 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.2.109] by n27.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Oct 2001 18:02:10 -0000 Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 17:58:42 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Calling all coders Message-ID: <9pngoi+taom@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 208 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 4.33.172.40 From: "Glenn Saunders" I asked the Stellalist guys whether they're interested in the Astrocade at all. We'll see what they say. If even one or two of them wrote a game for the Astrocade it could really get the ball rolling. From ballyalley@h... Sat Oct 06 13:57:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 6 Oct 2001 20:57:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 76636 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 20:57:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 6 Oct 2001 20:57:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.110) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 20:57:38 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 13:57:36 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:57:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Calling all coders Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 13:57:36 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Oct 2001 20:57:36.0825 (UTC) FILETIME=[873A0290:01C14EA9] From: "Adam Trionfo" Has the Stellalist branched out from VCS programming in the past? Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From slapdash@e... Sat Oct 06 21:05:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 7 Oct 2001 04:03:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 71352 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 04:03:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 7 Oct 2001 04:03:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-1.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2001 04:05:50 -0000 Received: from [207.229.149.230] (207-229-149-230.d.enteract.com [207.229.149.230]) by smtp-1.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 118D08939 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 23:05:05 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:59:39 -0500 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade Images: What does one want? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Russ Perry Jr Sorry I've been vacant for much of this thread... At 7:48 PM -0700 9/27/01, Adam Trionfo wrote: >How many images, and what kind, should be on an Astrocade cartridge? What do the numbers look like so far? I mean, what do the carts stack up to, and how much space do we have? [note: more on this below] >All cartridges, regardless of quality will be on a multicart; this >includes games and non-games (i.e. Biorhythm). All in-progress carts >will be included too. This is important criteria, and in some ways all that is required at first. If it lowers the cost of the cart because a smaller EPROM can be used, maybe it makes sense to stop there. >As homebrewed games have been released for the classic systems, these >too find their way onto multicarts. This is where the Astrocade >multicart takes a strange turn. > >There is simply no way that all homebrewed games can be on an Astrocade >multicart. It's not worth waiting for any future homebrews of course, but any released in time should be included. >Not all games deserve to be released. Some games are simply just plain BAD. I've always been of the mind that if it WAS released, archive it. Even if it SHOULDN'T have been released. It can always serve as a bad example. :-) >There won’t be room for it all, but let’s pretend that there is. Can we >make some choices here, that is, quality over quantity (even if there is >extra room leftover on the cart)? I'd prefer to see it all if there is room. >I want a multicart that has as complete a collection as possible (of ‘real’ >carts), and sort of a “Best of” homebrew games. This is completely >overlooking non-games (including applications (at least ONE should be >sampled), and art-type demos). One thing... Are there any homebrews on cartridge? If not, then you're talking about tape conversions, right? If so, it makes more sense to me to convert COMPANIES' games on tape to cart first. Then if there's still room, pick the best of the homebrewed stuff. At 11:20 PM -0400 9/27/01, spudboy wrote: >I like the idea of having two different multicarts. One with all the >released and prototype games. The other with a best of homebrew games. >If there is still a whole bunch more homebrew games that are worthy of a >release why not have three different multicarts. There may be issues of cost, but otherwise this isn't a bad idea. But, we'd also be eating up twice/thrice as many cart cases; not that it's a big issue since there won't be too many buyers for the most part. >Here is another idea entirely. Why not make a cart kind of like the >cuttle cart (for the 2600) or the intellicart (for the intellivision) >and have the "Astrocart". It would be a blank cart with a cable coming >out of it that attaches to a headphone jack of a stereo or walkman and >have the games load into the cartridge from the cd in .wav form. This >way one could burn as many CD's of wav files that he/she would like and >at the drop of a hat load whatever program he/she would want to play. >This would also be great for any new games that homebrew designers >would make in the future. That would be IDEAL for new games, given the low cost of CDR media, but don't look to Chad Schell to do it; I've already asked if he had any interest, and it's unlikely he'd dedicate enough time to doing it. On the other hand, if someone else here felt up to it, he might help with some documentation on what he's already done. At 11:50 AM -0400 9/28/01, Lance F. Squire wrote: >Adam Trionfo wrote: >Games/programs released and prototypes intended for release on cart >should be on the multi cart. > >As all other games/programs (That I know of) were intended to work with >the Basic cart, and should be left that way. (imho) I suppose that's another fair way to look at it... >As to the CD .wav -> cart. Basic does that. :) Good point. Smaller multicart, CDs for everything else. Though, is it compatible with homebrewed games intended to be cartridges, if they were ever to exist? Actually, a thought... Would it be possible to include the BASIC cart in the multicart and still FUNCTION the way the original(s) does? If so, the multicart would BE the Supercharger/Cuttle Cart/IntelliCart equivalent. At 9:53 AM -0700 9/28/01, Adam Trionfo wrote: >I do see the point that Lance is making about keeping BASIC programs away >from the multicart. Those programs never were meant to compare to the >carts, in the first place. But does that matter? Why make a sweeping >judgement to exclude them from the multicart? > >Just to set the record straight, not all tape programs are BASIC. The BASIC >interface (for the most part) is the only way users were, and are, able to >get programs loaded into the Astrocade. Machine Language programs, and >BASIC programs with ML subroutines, require the BASIC cartridge because that >is how they are loaded. With that said, 1.8K is limiting; no matter what >language you’re programming in. Do the ML programs loaded via BASIC have to be made differently than cartridge programs? (I mean outside the space limitation). >I’ve made calls to people before about help with the Bally CD, but besides a >few people, I’ve heard nothing on Bally tapes. If I ask if these games and >programs should be included on the CD, the answer is “yes.” Sure, I want >them there too. Please raise your hand if you can contribute time to this >effort. If it is just me working on this, then it is NOT going to happen. I'd sure like to help, but I can't say for sure how much time I'll have to dedicate. And right now, I'm not even sure where my Bally is, so that would complicate things. But I do have a large amount of tapes that I should get to work on preserving. I'd have to do it as WAVs or MP3s as I don't have a CD burner. >Creating a device like the Intellicart has been discussed by non-technical >people (like myself) before. The Blue Ram does this already (same result, >different means). How many people would REALLY buy an AstrocadeCart (if >there were such a thing)? It wouldn’t be cheap. I'd probably buy it, as I try to support all kinds of hobbyist efforts, but if it was TOO pricey, even I might balk. At 12:25 AM +0000 9/29/01, Ward Shrake wrote: >However, one minor nit I must pick is that there actually *IS* a >limit on what games are available for the Atari systems. > >All of the Atari 2600 multicarts that I'm aware of go up to 128 or >256 games, and then stop. There are therefore hundreds of games that >are "missing" by a completist's standards. The main reason is that >there are reportedly close to a thousand games released for that >system; just too many to include at anything like a sane final cost. I think there are probably only ~700 unique games without going into slightly changed pirate stuff... A bit of a guess though. >Many of those also had special chips originally included in the >carts, which would have to be included on a multicart for those games >to work. These chips are no longer made or sold in quantity, and are >generally taken from a limited supply of existing carts that had >them. Also complicating things for the 2600 is that many of the >larger carts have odd bank-switching schemes, with no standards set. I think the multicarts out there might be fairly complete as far as 2K and 4K carts go... It is the higher sizes that complicate things. That didn't stop Bankzilla from being built, but it would be very pricey to recreate. >On the Atari 5200 system's multicart, one game is missing and will >likely always be missing. Why? Because it had special hardware inside >the original cart. The multicart designers couldn't see the point of >including duplicates of that special hardware, for only one game. Which game is that? I'm blanking out here... >Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the strong impression from web >sites out I've read that the various Vectrex multicarts are not >necessarily always 100% complete either? Somewhat. I think Animaction is included but unuseable because it doesn't have the 2K RAM required. As to homebrew games, like you stated (not quoted here), they continue to come and assure that no Vectrex multi-cart will be complete (unless everybody stops making new games). >The EPROM memory chip that I am using will hold 512k bytes (524,288 >bytes, or half a megabyte, or eight megabits) of program code. The >largest cartridge program for the Bally is 8192 bytes. That means I >could hold 64 of those programs on one multicart, if they were all 8k >in size. Some are smaller; there are currently 20 programs of 2k >total size, and 30 programs of 4k total size. Right now, if I include >every single program I have a ROM image for, I have at least 68k left >over. (Assuming the recent memory addressing solution works as I hope >it does, and it probably will.) I really have more space than that; >the 68k figure includes non-runnable images like the BIOS chips, and >four or five versions of Muncher. There should be ample to include >the rest of whatever shows up, that was officially being made, etc. Oo, thanks for the numbers... I'd like to think we might be able to make more room by expanding Ward's scheme to allow 2K chunks without being wasteful, but even then, 68K is kind of borderline -- it's a decent amount, but if BASIC games are limited to 1.8K (let's say 2K), and we're cutting at 4K, then we're only getting 17 more. Definitely need to pick and choose then. It's also not too big compared to 512K that if it gets wasted because we decide not to include any tape stuff, that I'm not too worried about it. >Also, I have enough DIP switches on the cart to allow 128 programs >total, with only 73 being used. Plenty of space, in that department. Seems so, even if we add my estimated 17 more. Good, good. At 3:59 PM +0000 9/29/01, mcgrail0007@n... wrote: >Ward, I wanted to know if it would be possible that instead of using >dip switches on the cart to instead use the menu that is already >included on the Astrocade. I am not a technical expert so I have no >idea how difficult this would be, but I thought it might be easier on >the Astrocade because the system already comes with a built in menu. While I personally prefer menus over DIP switches myself, I doubt it's going to be doable at a reasonable price point. Possible though. At 6:10 PM +0000 9/29/01, Ward Shrake wrote: >The only way to have any kind of menu-based interface would be for me >to learn Z80 machine code, and the Bally's innermost architecture, to >be able to program a large, custom menu program. Well, someone else might volunteer to do the code for you. I know Sean was just pretty much sent a menu for his 5200 multicart. >I would also have to >run some sort of a data cable from the cart port itself to the 50-pin >port on the back of the Astrocade, since the necessary lines are not >included at the cartridge port. What lines are we talking about here? >The first program on the cart would >have to "manually" operate the interface lines there, to act as the >upper address lines and do what the DIP switches are doing now. This is doable... Will raise the cost though. >If ten people are willing to spend $500 per unit to have that feature >on their multicarts, that would make it marginally worth it to me. >But we all know that's never going to happen in a million years. Sadly, no. At 11:53 AM -0700 9/29/01, Adam Trionfo wrote: >How about this: are there any non-cart programs that people want to see? Like I said above, anything released professionally would be a good idea. Assuming there's sufficient room. At 6:50 PM +0000 10/3/01, Glenn Saunders wrote: >Multicarts are easier to build, that's for sure, and can help get the >existing catalog into gamers, which could increase interest in the >platform somewhat, but if we're talking about fostering homebrew game >development, I think an updated Blue Ram type device that plugs into >the expansion port is better (not that they are mutually exclusive). It think it will almost certainly HAVE to be a separate item. Trying to do an all-in-one unit will make work stall, or people abandon what they're doing now (see Ward :-). But as a possible future development, it would be pretty cool. >Regarding the compilation CD, what's the status of the copyrights? I'm sure it's at least as confusing as the Atari copyrights, though IIRC Brett Bilbrey has released his games into the public domain. Has Jamie Fenton released her Bally stuff into public domain along with Robby Roto? >Can we track down the remnants of Astrovision in order to make way >for a CD? There are a couple folk we could look into, but there would still be a lot of mystery as far as some of the third party stuff. >The audio portion of the CD would, without extra hardware, >only work with BallyBasic programs, and the data portion would have >games for the emulator. This is why the multicart is still an important project, to preserve the rest. >So ideally a CD release should coincide with >a hardware device so that games of all sizes can load into the real >hardware. The BallyCharger. Might take another CD for that depending. >A CD would be more economical than a multicart, and while >the hardware expansion would be an expensive device, it would have >more utility in the long run vs. a multicart. Yeah, but I don't think there's a way around it right now. I'd rather have the multicart now, than MAYBE a BallyCharger in the future, maybe. Wow, sorry so long, but I didn't want anything to think I wasn't interested enough to ring in... :-) -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From lance@a... Sat Oct 06 22:05:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 7 Oct 2001 05:05:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 90257 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 05:05:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2001 05:05:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.141) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2001 05:05:55 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011007050554.RQHF24292.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:05:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3BBFDF08.40808@a...> Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 00:50:16 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade Images: What does one want? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" Russ Perry Jr wrote: > Sorry I've been vacant for much of this thread... > > Do the ML programs loaded via BASIC have to be made differently than > cartridge programs? (I mean outside the space limitation). > > Well... As the only ram on the machine is the screen memory, Any ML or Basic/ML programs must hide the ML routines along the bottom of the screen. Usually by reducing the number of lines drawn on the screen. EG: screen stops drawing anything after line 80. The resolution stays the same. This results in two things: 1. The ML is set to run from the screen ram space rather than the cart ram space. Some code may be more moble than others. 2. They by necesity must use a smaller playing field. Not really a problem. Also of mention, carts have a header section to setup the menu or jump straight to it (Basic). I have only seen 2 ML tape programs so far. The tape versions loaded a title page program. One was nicely animated. then load the game. The cart form using the Basic+ML in rom method, only had the game. Losing the Title display entirly. I'd rather see the game as the author ment it to be presented, rather than striped to the basic game for rom inclusion. But maybe that's just me. :) Lance From slapdash@e... Sun Oct 07 11:50:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 7 Oct 2001 18:50:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 23744 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 18:50:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Oct 2001 18:50:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-1.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2001 18:50:11 -0000 Received: from [207.229.148.224] (207-229-148-224.d.enteract.com [207.229.148.224]) by smtp-1.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AC9E9949 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 13:49:50 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3BBFDF08.40808@a...> References: <3BBFDF08.40808@a...> Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 13:44:09 -0500 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade Images: What does one want? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Russ Perry Jr At 12:50 AM -0400 10/7/01, Lance F. Squire wrote: >Russ Perry Jr wrote: >> Do the ML programs loaded via BASIC have to be made differently than >> cartridge programs? (I mean outside the space limitation). >As the only ram on the machine is the screen memory, Any ML or Basic/ML >programs must hide the ML routines along the bottom of the screen. >Usually by reducing the number of lines drawn on the screen. EG: screen >stops drawing anything after line 80. The resolution stays the same. You know, I've heard of this before... But how does the "hiding" actually work? If you just used that RAM as ML storage, wouldn't the machine still try to render it on screen? Or is there some way of telling the system not to write those lines? >This results in two things: > >1. The ML is set to run from the screen ram space rather than the cart >ram space. Some code may be more moble than others. > >2. They by necesity must use a smaller playing field. Not really a problem. It basically says to me that you couldn't port EVERY game... >Also of mention, carts have a header section to setup the menu or jump >straight to it (Basic). That's about what I thought, I guess. >I have only seen 2 ML tape programs so far. The tape versions loaded a >title page program. One was nicely animated. then load the game. The >cart form using the Basic+ML in rom method, only had the game. Losing >the Title display entirly. Right, on cart only the ML part is necessary. Do carts still NEED to use screen RAM to hold variables? There isn't ANY other RAM in the system? >I'd rather see the game as the author ment it to be presented, rather >than striped to the basic game for rom inclusion. >But maybe that's just me. :) No, I tend to agree with that myself. Anyway, thanks for the explanations. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Sun Oct 07 13:25:21 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 89049 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 20:25:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2001 20:25:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.80) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2001 20:25:20 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.32] by n30.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2001 20:25:16 -0000 Date: 7 Oct 2001 20:25:15 -0000 Message-ID: <1002486315.873.27292.w5@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Notify: From: To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley group. File : /BALLYEQU.txt Uploaded by : ballyalley@h... Description : Bally System Equates from DNA Manual You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/BALLYEQU.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ballyalley@h... From ballyalley@h... Sun Oct 07 13:30:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 7 Oct 2001 20:28:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 52679 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 20:28:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 7 Oct 2001 20:28:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.194) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2001 20:30:40 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 13:30:40 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 07 Oct 2001 20:30:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Bally System Equates Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 13:30:39 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Oct 2001 20:30:40.0074 (UTC) FILETIME=[EDFB22A0:01C14F6E] From: "Adam Trionfo" Bally System Equates The DNA manual has a list of equates and macros before the actual ROM begins (pages 2-15). I typed in pages 2-6, and Lance has helped me proofread the actual file (thanks Lance!). I have uploaded this document into the file area. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/BALLYEQU.txt Does this make anyone want to dig a little further? Adam Trionfo -- October 7, 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From cybpunks@h... Sun Oct 07 14:15:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 7 Oct 2001 21:13:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 75409 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 21:13:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 7 Oct 2001 21:13:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.134) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2001 21:15:26 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.2.133] by n26.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2001 21:15:26 -0000 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 21:15:24 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Calling all coders Message-ID: <9pqglc+ofmi@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 401 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 4.33.173.52 From: "Glenn Saunders" It would be simplistic to think that homebrewers stick to only one platform. I know John Dondzila has written for more than one platform. I don't know of any Stellalist guys who have written for other classic consoles yet, but I could see some of them doing so. --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Has the Stellalist branched out from VCS programming in the past? From cybpunks@h... Sun Oct 07 14:26:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 7 Oct 2001 21:26:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 79918 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 21:26:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2001 21:26:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2001 21:26:38 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.4.68] by n18.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2001 21:26:37 -0000 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 21:26:36 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Astrocade Images: What does one want? Message-ID: <9pqhac+vsuj@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 470 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 4.33.173.52 From: "Glenn Saunders" >> You know, I've heard of this before... But how does the "hiding" actually work? If you just used that RAM as ML storage, wouldn't the machine still try to render it on screen? Or is there some way of telling the system not to write those lines? << I think you set the color registers all to the same value so it renders as a solid line. The Astrocade has the ability to change palettes in mid screen (like an Atari 800 DLI) which isn't utilized often... From cybpunks@h... Sun Oct 07 14:31:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 7 Oct 2001 21:28:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 62339 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 21:28:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 7 Oct 2001 21:28:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.92) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2001 21:31:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.2.25] by n14.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2001 21:31:04 -0000 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 21:31:01 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bally System Equates Message-ID: <9pqhil+n68p@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 810 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 4.33.173.52 From: "Glenn Saunders" Any details on TASM? On Stellalist most people use DASM which I think can output Z80 assembly also. It might be better to translate this into DASM syntax. --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Bally System Equates > > The DNA manual has a list of equates and macros before the actual ROM begins > (pages 2-15). I typed in pages 2-6, and Lance has helped me proofread the > actual file (thanks Lance!). I have uploaded this document into the file > area. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/BALLYEQU.txt > > Does this make anyone want to dig a little further? > > Adam Trionfo > -- October 7, 2001 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ward.shrake@w... Sun Oct 07 14:33:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 7 Oct 2001 21:31:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 28139 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 21:31:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 7 Oct 2001 21:31:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.51) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2001 21:33:48 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.67] by n12.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2001 21:32:38 -0000 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 21:31:52 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Calling all coders Message-ID: <9pqhk8+r0lc@e...> In-Reply-To: <9pngoi+taom@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 424 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.204 From: "Ward Shrake" I'd love to see this happen. Even a port of an existing 2600 game that they had created for the 2600, would be really neat to see! Ward Shrake --- In ballyalley@y..., "Glenn Saunders" wrote: > I asked the Stellalist guys whether they're interested in the > Astrocade at all. We'll see what they say. If even one or two of > them wrote a game for the Astrocade it could really get the ball > rolling. From ward.shrake@w... Sun Oct 07 14:53:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 7 Oct 2001 21:53:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 94716 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 21:51:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2001 21:51:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.221) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2001 21:51:09 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.2.211] by n32.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2001 21:51:09 -0000 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 21:51:07 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Astrocade Images: What does one want? Message-ID: <9pqiob+j73k@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1053 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.204 From: "Ward Shrake" For myself, I already have enough input on the "what should be on the multicart" question. So we can probably put this question to bed now? Everyone seems to agree on the general ideas, as far as I can tell? >From what I've heard, these ideas are all in the direction that I had planned to go in, anyway. (That is, that I should include all of the "official carts" whether they were ever officially finished or not, or are even game programs. Then to include any tape-to-cart conversions originally made by any third-party company. Next include a "best of" whatever cool homebrews or tape/cart hybrids we have ROM image access to.) I think everyone more or less agrees on that idea? Beyond that, I'll say this... If a paying multicart customer hates one program we've chosen to include, but just loves one we have decided not to include (that we actually have ROM image access to), then I'll simply work with that one person to make sure that their particular desires are accomodated. End of problem, as far as I'm concerned? Ward Shrake From ward.shrake@w... Sun Oct 07 15:55:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 7 Oct 2001 22:55:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 87571 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 22:55:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 7 Oct 2001 22:55:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2001 22:55:10 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.66] by n29.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2001 22:55:09 -0000 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 22:55:08 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Multicart design decisions Message-ID: <9pqmgc+pdqm@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2628 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.204 From: "Ward Shrake" At the risk of perhaps sounding rude, I currently feel a need to ask folks to keep any future theoretical discussions to a minimum, on the subject of multicart design decisions. I don't think some people realize just how far into the design cycle this thing already is? It left the initial design decision stage months ago! I'm working on the last of the pre-production stages now. The majority of what I'm hearing on this subject has already been discussed in exhaustive detail in my "Multicart FAQ". Please read it, so you know what I plan to do and exactly why I made those decisions. http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm I had a working prototype completed, back in August. It was publicly shown to others at CGE 2001. From what I've been told, most people's reaction to it was simply to drool, and to say they wanted one? Since then I have been working on refining that initial design in various small ways, such as trying to make the most efficient use of EPROM memory storage space. (The theory checks out, and "real life" tests will likely be done later this week.) This was the last thing of a technical nature that I had to tackle, before "mass" producing carts. I've also been working hard on my "assembly line procedures," both to make my life easier and to insure that overall quality is maximized. ...All of which is in the Multicart FAQ, along with much, much more. In short, as far as I am concerned the existing multicart design is the final revision, "as is". For better or for worse, I see no need to change any of its current design features. Period. At some point, theoretical discussions must end, and an actual product must be made. Please note that I have already decided upon the final price of my multicart, and that I have no intention of changing my mind on it. I went out of my way to explain everything pertaining to this decision. People can read the "Multicart FAQ" and see for themselves if they think it is worth buying one from me, or not? That is an individual decision, left up to each of you. My job was to give you all of the information you'd need to make that decision. I've already done that. Since I've already decided what features the multicart will include, and what the price will be, the only valid subject left that I can see is whether or not people think poorly of me or my decisions? (A conversation I'm likely to be too busy soldering to get involved in.) Again, I'm sorry if this sounds rude? I just want to make sure that we are all on the same page. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Sun Oct 07 16:59:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 7 Oct 2001 23:59:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 50401 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 23:59:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2001 23:59:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.92) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2001 23:59:49 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.106] by n14.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2001 23:59:48 -0000 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 23:59:48 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hardware projects besides the multicart Message-ID: <9pqq9k+cphg@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5696 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.234 From: "Ward Shrake" Lately, various people have publicly discussed the idea of hardware projects on this message board in a "wouldn't it be neat if" manner. For self-protective and general paranoia reasons, I wish to make one thing perfectly clear to everyone... my plate is already MORE than full! I have NO intention of working on any major hardware projects, besides the current one that I'm working on; my Astrocade multicart. (I mentioned this in my Multicart FAQ, but since not everyone here takes the time to read it, I'm making it clear to the readers here.) On the other hand, I don't mind contributing to the discussion of these things, if and when I find the time and motivation to do so? Here are some projects you may or may not be aware of... The "BallyCharger" project ========================== One of the most popular subjects is the idea of creating something like the Atari 2600's "Supercharger" or the Chad Schell's "Cuttle Cart". Along those lines, someone (Russ Perry Jr.?) recently asked me about the existing Bally BASIC cartridge. Since I intended to include copies of the ROM images of the BASIC carts on my upcoming multicart, would that imply that it would be possible for the multicart to do everything that the BASIC carts can do? The answer to that question is "no" and "sorry". A very good question, mind you, but it will not work that way in real life. Why? Because the original BASIC carts included both a memory chip AND various parts that made up a hardware interface for a standard cassette recorder. My multicart will ONLY include the contents of that memory chip. My multicart will NOT include the various parts that make up the tape interface, so it will not be able to communicate with the outside world in any way. Sorry. Some of you may be tempted to ask me "why not?" and to ask me if I will redesign the multicart to be able to include this feature. My answer is "No, and that's final." (Please see message #280 on this board, and my Multicart FAQ, for a much more detailed explanation.) According to Russ Perry Jr.'s post in message #270, he's already discussed doing something like a Bally "Cuttle Cart" with the person that created the Intellicart and the Cuttle Cart, Chad Schell... > That would be IDEAL for new games, given the low cost of > CDR media, but don't look to Chad Schell to do it; I've already > asked if he had any interest, and it's unlikely he'd dedicate > enough time to doing it. On the other hand, if someone else > here felt up to it, he might help with some documentation on > what he's already done. So that means that two people are definitely NOT going to become involved in any attempt to make an equivalent to the Cuttle Cart. That does not rule out others doing it, but it does set some limits. Replica carts; a creation service ================================= As many retrogamers know, Randy Crihfield of "Hozer Video" has a service he performs for the Atari 2600 community. You pick any 2k or 4k cart that he has a ROM image for, and for a small fee he will create a working version of that Atari 2600 cartridge for you. (It is not like a counterfeit of a particular cartridge, down to every last detail. It is just a cartridge that plays the game you've chosen.) A similar service already exists for the Bally Astrocade. A man named Michael White does approximately the same thing that Randy does. The main difference is that Mike White does not have any kind of a modern computer, so he does not have access to the Internet. You have to contact him by snail-mail. You can do that at this address: Michael White 4585 County Line #2 R.D. #1 Box 373 Wakeman, Ohio 44889 One project that I do plan to do in the future (mainly because it sounds like a nice, short, enjoyable project to me) is to make a design on paper for a new PC board layout that Michael White could use to have single-cartridge boards made up, later on. This may not seem like it will help the Bally community, but it definitely will. You see, Mike does not buy up "common" Bally carts, gut them, and use the shells, as Randy does with the 2600. Mike has just as hard a time as the rest of us do, finding even the more "common" Bally carts! He has a current supply of a 700 or fewer plastic cases that someone had commercially made, many years ago, when the Bally Astrocade was still active. These were passed on to Mike at some point, some years ago. To go along with these cases, years ago Mike had circuit boards made up by a commercial board-production company. These boards are now in danger of running out. (100 or less are all that he has at present.) Mike told me that he wants to have another batch of PC boards made up, when he runs out of the ones he has, so that he has just enough PC boards to match the plastic cases he has left. (Once those cases are all gone, he considers himself out of the cart repro business.) Long story shorter, I took technical input from Mike, and I bounced some ideas off of him. Between the two of us, we made various design decisions regarding the technical specs of the next generation of PC boards made to fit into Bally cartridge cases. On paper, they'll be pretty cool (for geeks like us), and will give Mike a few more options than he has now, as far as what memory sizes he can use, etc. When I physically draw the boards up, I have promised that I will send them to Mike in a form that he can use to get new PC boards made commercially, when he needs to. I also plan to put the artwork into the files section of this web site, just for the heck of doing it. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Sun Oct 07 18:42:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 8 Oct 2001 01:39:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 32434 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 01:39:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 8 Oct 2001 01:39:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.119) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 01:42:22 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 18:42:22 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 01:42:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Multicart's outside world Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 18:42:22 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2001 01:42:22.0822 (UTC) FILETIME=[79B00060:01C14F9A] From: "Adam Trionfo" Ward said, "[my multicart] will not be able to communicate with the outside world in any way." Actually it can, if you use the 300 baud version of BASIC. You just have to have the tape interface-- and that is EASY to find [wink]. I just wanted to clear that up. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From lance@a... Sun Oct 07 18:49:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 8 Oct 2001 01:49:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 2339 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 01:49:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 8 Oct 2001 01:49:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail29.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.19) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 01:49:30 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail29.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011008014929.SLOF18897.femail29.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 18:49:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3BC1027D.4040901@a...> Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 21:33:49 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Astrocade Images: What does one want? References: <9pqhac+vsuj@e...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" Glenn Saunders wrote: >> You know, I've heard of this before... But how does the "hiding" actually >> work? If you just used that RAM as ML storage, wouldn't the machine still >> try to render it on screen? Or is there some way of telling the system >> not to write those lines? > > > I think you set the color registers all to the same value so it > renders as a solid line. The Astrocade has the ability to change > palettes in mid screen (like an Atari 800 DLI) which isn't utilized > often... > > Actually, Although the above is ture, in that the Bally has a simular ability, it has a less processor intensive method of doing this. It's called the 'Vertical Blanking Line' . It's operated by port 10 (0AH). For demonstration, I've written a small basic program: 5 CLEAR;&(10)=0 10 FOR X=0TO16;PRINT "VERTICAL SWEEP! ",;NEXTX 20 FOR X=0 TO 176 30 &(10)=X 40 FOR Y=0 TO 25;NEXT Y 50 NEXT X PROGRAM DESCRIPTION Line 5 clears the screen then sets the Vertical Blanking line to 0. Blanking from 0 on. Line 10 Fills the now invisable screen with text. I could have made this faster by seting NT=0, but left it alone so you knew the Bally was doing something. Line 20 & 30 starts revealing the screen 1 scan line at a time. As the Bally is running in 'consumer' mode this is 1/2 pixel at a time. We stop at 176 as the screen in basic is 88 pixels hi. 88x2=176. You could continue on to 204, 102x2=204, and see the basic scratchpad area working. Line 40 just slows the revieal done for effect. Play with at will. :) I hope this helps. I leave it up to the list to devise a horisontal sweep and a corner sweep. I will post these later IF there is interest, and nobody figures it out. (It's not hard at all) Enjoy! I did. Lance From ballyalley@h... Sun Oct 07 19:11:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 8 Oct 2001 02:11:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 92207 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 02:11:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2001 02:11:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.88) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 02:11:08 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 19:11:08 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 02:11:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: On TASM Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 19:11:07 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2001 02:11:08.0246 (UTC) FILETIME=[7E1ECF60:01C14F9E] From: "Adam Trionfo" Glenn said: [Any details on TASM? On Stellalist most people use DASM which I think can output Z80 assembly also. It might be better to translate this into DASM syntax.] I've used DASM myself for VCS tinkering, it works well (I have not looked at the Z80 capabilites of it at all). The Z80 sites I've visited recommend TASM, and the few recent Z80 tutorials I've read use TASM too. I don't have any problems with TASM now, and unless I find a reason to stop using it then I will continue to do so. I am very willing to listen to advice that anyone has to give on these two (or any other assembly) programs. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ward.shrake@w... Sun Oct 07 19:37:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 8 Oct 2001 02:37:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 52235 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 02:37:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2001 02:37:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.66) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 02:37:53 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.107] by n20.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Oct 2001 02:37:53 -0000 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 02:37:53 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Astrocade Images: What does one want? Message-ID: <9pr3i1+10eqk@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 13990 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.195 From: "Ward Shrake" Some responses to what Russ Perry Jr. said in message #270: (On what ROM images to include on Ward Shrake's Bally multicart.) > This is important criteria, and in some ways all that is > required at first. If it lowers the cost of the cart because > a smaller EPROM can be used, maybe it makes sense to stop there. Nice try, but no cigar. Only ten percent of the final user's cost is paying for the EPROM chip. Another fifteen percent or so is going to pay for the rest of the parts it takes to make one of these carts. The remaining seventy-five percent of the final cost goes to the many hours of labor it will take me to make each cart by hand. The chip in it now was chosen after much consideration, and has shown itself to be the ideal size for a project of this nature. Therefore, changing the EPROM chip out for a smaller one won't reduce the price at all, and would seriously reduce or degrade the multicart's capabilities. > At 11:20 PM -0400 9/27/01, spudboy wrote: >> I like the idea of having two different multicarts. One with >> all the released and prototype games. The other with a best >> of homebrew games. If there is still a whole bunch more >> homebrew games that are worthy of a release why not have >> three different multicarts. > > There may be issues of cost, but otherwise this isn't a bad > idea. But, we'd also be eating up twice/thrice as many cart > cases; not that it's a big issue since there won't be too > many buyers for the most part. Whoa, whoa! Hold on there, guys! You assume far too much, and are beginning to really scare the heck out of me?! Please slow down! As the guy actually making these multicarts, I do NOT like the idea of making multiple multicarts! Just rule that idea out now; it will not happen. I'm releasing ONE multicart, and making no promises after that. I never even promised to keep doing this one, forever, so why are you guys talking like you want a lifetime of committment from me? As I've mentioned in another message (#279) today, if an individual who buys one of my multicarts wants me to take some of the programs off of his/her multicart, and put something else on it, that is do- able. I'll do my best to work with them on an individual basis, as long as it doesn't cost me so much time that I just can't do it? Beyond that, I see no reason to assume that it is somehow my duty to try to do miracles? I have strict limits on my time, my money, and my motivation. This isn't my life's work, and I won't let it become so! You consumers can EASILY overwhelm we hobby-item producers! It takes only minutes or hours to "consume" something that guys like me make. It takes weeks or months or years to make it in the first place. Tell us to keep repeating THAT effort and we'll just run away, screaming!? I apologize if I seem overly defensive. But this was all covered in my Multicart FAQ, and here we are again, still discussing it? Why? I've also taken great pains, just days ago, to point out that every person doing one of these homebrew projects has a life, and limits. (See message #263.) Having fun equals motivation, which helps lots. Unwanted pressure equals no fun, which leads to a feeling of being overwhelmed and under-appreciated, which kills projects. Have a care! I've also posted quite a bit of similar thinking on the subject of homebrew projects and their related motivation, over on the message boards at "ClassicGaming.com". If you read what I've said there, you will see why you're scaring me, and why that isn't self-serving! Many homebrew projects have recently either been cancelled, or have gone underground ("friends only" distribution) due to similar situations. http://www.forumplanet.com/classicgaming/topic.asp?fid=1441&tid=297047 None of this is meant in a threatening way. I just want to be sure that you guys don't put so much pressure on me, that my enjoyment of this hobby is ruined by it. I'll find another hobby in that case, out of simple self-defense, and we'll all lose something because of it. (Discussing something like the Cuttle Cart, but for the Bally.) > I'd probably buy it, as I try to support all kinds of > hobbyist efforts, but if it was TOO pricey, even I might > balk. Count on it being far, FAR too pricey, in my personal opinion! That is, if anyone even bothers to try to make one, which I feel is highly unlikely given the fact that there are only a few fans of the Bally, and that many people reading these messages do not even seem to own a working Astrocade console? The few that have one claim it is stored somewhere (they're not sure where) and they rarely play with it. I would not totally rule it out, but I think it is highly unlikely. (I believe Adam has already said it is reinventing the wheel, besides?) I do like the name "BallyCharger," by the way, if anyone makes this? >> On the Atari 5200 system's multicart, one game is missing and will >> likely always be missing. Why? Because it had special hardware >> inside the original cart. The multicart designers couldn't see the >> point of including duplicates of that special hardware, for only >> one game. > > Which game is that? I'm blanking out here... One of the Bounty Bob games; I don't recall specifically which one. >> Also, I have enough DIP switches on the cart to allow 128 programs >> total, with only 73 being used. Plenty of space, in that >> department. > > Seems so, even if we add my estimated 17 more. Good, good. As I indicated before, don't take those numbers as gospel just yet. They were just initial, ballpark estimates. (I've already seen that I goofed on them -- there are only 10 programs of 2k size, not 20.) But in general, I have EPROM room now for everything that I curretnly have a ROM image for, which is a rather long list. Experts have said that we are very close to having it all; Jamie Fenton was one of these experts. (Links to those image lists are in my Multicart FAQ.) > At 3:59 PM +0000 9/29/01, mcgrail0007@n... wrote: >> Ward, I wanted to know if it would be possible that instead of >> using dip switches on the cart to instead use the menu that is >> already included on the Astrocade. I am not a technical expert >> so I have no idea how difficult this would be, but I thought it >> might be easier on the Astrocade because the system already >> comes with a built in menu. > > While I personally prefer menus over DIP switches myself, I doubt > it's going to be doable at a reasonable price point. Possible > though. Winning the lottery is possible, it just is not likely. Read the FAQ if you want all the details on why this feature will not be offered. (Quoting Ward from Sep 29th.) >> The only way to have any kind of menu-based interface would be >> for me to learn Z80 machine code, and the Bally's innermost >> architecture, to be able to program a large, custom menu >> program. > > Well, someone else might volunteer to do the code for you. > I know Sean was just pretty much sent a menu for his 5200 > multicart. I have heard that as well. But realistically, what are the odds of it happening at all, let alone soon? Adam asked to hear from anyone that could code in Z80, just days ago. Nobody responded that I'm aware of? It is all well and good to talk about hypotheticals. But they don't represent real life at all, and that's very important to remember. As I've also said in my Multicart, what's the advantage of having a menu on the screen? You'd just have to flip manually through half a dozen or more different screens to use anything? Why is that better? The re-design would cost me plenty: totally new PC boards would be necessary, and nobody would want to pay for any of it. I'm not in a secure financial position at all, so my time and energy is going to be spent in efforts to keep a roof over my head. That's the reality. In other words, even if by some miracle I find that I have "left- over" time after my survival efforts are completed, it is still far too much to assume that I will want to spend it on the gaming hobby in general, let alone on this specific game machine. I have a life. > What lines are we talking about here? Address lines above 1k, or any suitable substitute for them. The only lines that are available at the cartridge port itself are those that are 100% necessary to have one memory chip operate, of no larger than 8k in total size. (That's all Bally could imagine as ever necessary.) >> The first program on the cart would have to "manually" operate >> the interface lines there, to act as the upper address lines and >> do what the DIP switches are doing now. > > This is doable... Will raise the cost though. Again, see the FAQ. (And message #280.) The point is interesting but moot, since I have no intention of changing my design at this point. If someone else wants to design some whiz-bang device that puts mine totally to shame, I'm all for it. Feel free to "knock my socks off". >> If ten people are willing to spend $500 per unit to have that >> feature on their multicarts, that would make it marginally worth >> it to me. But we all know that's never going to happen in a >> million years. > > Sadly, no. And I do mean "marginally". I'm not going to give up two months or more of full-time work, get no money in return for it, and end up homeless as a result. No way! So let's just push this idea aside, OK? > It think it will almost certainly HAVE to be a separate item. > Trying to do an all-in-one unit will make work stall, or people > abandon what they're doing now (see Ward :-). But as a possible > future development, it would be pretty cool. Russ has put up with me being crabby, for many years now. I'm sure he's used to it? (Thanks for your patience and understanding, Russ!) I agree that many things would be cool to see. I understand why people would want to discuss them. But I also have no desire to talk about vague "maybe's" and general "if's" until my typing fingers are raw and bleeding from the effort? My personal feeling on the subject is "time to sh*t or get off the pot," so I'm putting my words into action. I am going to put some real-life multicarts out soon. If it does not include the kitchen sink, sue me. It beats having nothing! >> Regarding the compilation CD, what's the status of the >> copyrights? Now THERE is a project worthy of attention, guys!? Help Adam out on this, if you are honestly wondering what you can do to help others? > I'm sure it's at least as confusing as the Atari copyrights, though > IIRC Brett Bilbrey has released his games into the public domain. Adam is working on that type of thing, but is pretty over-burdened as it is, in my humble opinion. I'm impressed with his progress to date, but am worried that he'll get burned out and quit if he overdoes it. > Has Jamie Fenton released her Bally stuff into public domain along > with Robby Roto? I'm proud to say that Jamie saw my multicart at CGE 2001, and wants to be one of my multicart customers. (She'll probably get "#1".) In a recent e-mail, she told me that she believes she still has some Astrocade stuff stored in boxes somewhere, and that it may or may not be anything more than I already have, ROM-image wise? She told me that she'll share what she can, to include in the existing ROM-image library. As to releasing her copyrights per se, I have not asked at this point and honestly don't plan to, beyond asking for permission to include whatever code she'll offer for Bally fans to freely use? A suggestion: if any of you guys want to help the Astrocade community out, and/or reward Jamie Fenton for her hard work over the years, please consider donating to the cost of a multicart for Jamie. I am sure she can afford to pay my asking price, and she has not asked to be given a freebie, but I don't want to charge her if I don't have to? However, my financial situation simply won't allow any freebies. So I am left in the unenviable position of wanting to give her one of my multicarts as a freebie, but of not being able to do it. I'd be grateful if anyone wanted to contribute a few bucks to this cause? >> The audio portion of the CD would, without extra hardware, >> only work with BallyBasic programs, and the data portion would >> have games for the emulator. > > This is why the multicart is still an important project, to > preserve the rest. Thanks much. I do agree that the audio CD would be cool, too. It is not like I see it as competition with my multicart project, at all? I just sort of assume that a CD will eventually come out, and that it will likely include any of the ROMs I have access to, which have gone through the copyright-seeking process and obtained full permission. >> So ideally a CD release should coincide with >> a hardware device so that games of all sizes can load into >> the real hardware. > > The BallyCharger. Might take another CD for that depending. Assuming that anyone ever makes one? (See message #281.) (From a quote by Glenn Saunders, I believe?) >> A CD would be more economical than a multicart, and while >> the hardware expansion would be an expensive device, it >> would have more utility in the long run vs. a multicart. Again, it is up to each person to decide if the multicart is "worth it" to them. My asking price is admittedly not pocket change, but I can't make it any cheaper than I'm already offering it for, without risking time or financial losses that I simply cannot bear. Sorry. > Yeah, but I don't think there's a way around it right now. I'd > rather have the multicart now, than MAYBE a BallyCharger in the > future, maybe. An important distinction, to be sure! Still, buying one is up to the individual. I am going out of my way to apply very little pressure to anyone, to try to make them run out and buy a multicart from me. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Sun Oct 07 20:03:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 8 Oct 2001 03:03:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 80811 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 03:03:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2001 03:03:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.34) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 03:03:45 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.1.35] by n16.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Oct 2001 03:03:15 -0000 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 02:58:52 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Multicart's outside world Message-ID: <9pr4pc+d8gf@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1143 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.195 From: "Ward Shrake" --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Ward said, "[my multicart] will not be able to communicate > with the outside world in any way." Actually it can, if you > use the 300 baud version of BASIC. You just have to have the > tape interface-- and that is EASY to find [wink]. I just > wanted to clear that up. > > Adam Show's what I know. :-) Since that is apparently the case, would it be a good idea for me to put that (Bally's?) version of the BASIC cartridge as the first cart ROM image stored within the Multicart? That way, it would be easier to find; just flip all of the DIP switches to zero, and there it is. I was already planning to put the "TEST" program in either that spot, or the upper-most one. (So that "all ones" will find and activate it.) This would allow a person to make sure their Bally worked OK? Does anyone else like this idea? It may get us that much closer to having the "BallyCharger" idea become a reality? It would only work for games on tape, but if those were released on a CD, that'd be OK? Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From slapdash@e... Sun Oct 07 21:42:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 8 Oct 2001 04:42:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 42511 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 04:42:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 Oct 2001 04:42:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-1.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 04:42:25 -0000 Received: from [207.229.148.208] (207-229-148-208.d.enteract.com [207.229.148.208]) by smtp-1.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC00FC0CC for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:40:45 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9pr4pc+d8gf@e...> References: <9pr4pc+d8gf@e...> Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:35:20 -0500 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ballyalley] Re: Multicart's outside world Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Russ Perry Jr At 2:58 AM +0000 10/8/01, Ward Shrake wrote: >--- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: >> Ward said, "[my multicart] will not be able to communicate >> with the outside world in any way." Actually it can, if you >> use the 300 baud version of BASIC. You just have to have the >> tape interface-- and that is EASY to find [wink]. I just >> wanted to clear that up. >Since that is apparently the case, would it be a good idea for me to >put that (Bally's?) version of the BASIC cartridge as the first cart >ROM image stored within the Multicart? That way, it would be easier >to find; just flip all of the DIP switches to zero, and there it is. > >I was already planning to put the "TEST" program in either that spot, >or the upper-most one. (So that "all ones" will find and activate >it.) This would allow a person to make sure their Bally worked OK? Sure, put BASIC low and TEST high? >Does anyone else like this idea? It may get us that much closer to >having the "BallyCharger" idea become a reality? It would only work >for games on tape, but if those were released on a CD, that'd be OK? Right, I think that DOES sort of give us the hobbyist platform as far as BASIC and small ML programs go. A reasonable compromise... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From lance@a... Sun Oct 07 21:46:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 8 Oct 2001 04:46:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 39264 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 04:46:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2001 04:46:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.141) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 04:46:17 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011008044616.QNMM24292.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 21:46:16 -0700 Message-ID: <3BC12BEB.1000304@a...> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 00:30:35 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Astrocade Images: What does one want? References: <9pr3i1+10eqk@e...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" Ward Shrake wrote: > Adam asked to hear from anyone that > could code in Z80, just days ago. Nobody responded that I'm aware of? > Adam already knows this but... I did Z80 assembly programming on a TRS-80 mod 1. I am currently re aquanting my self with the Z80 while looking into the Bally innards. I only revieal this to rase the counter off the bottom. :) Lance From slapdash@e... Sun Oct 07 21:54:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 8 Oct 2001 04:54:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 9823 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 04:54:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2001 04:54:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-1.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 04:54:25 -0000 Received: from [207.229.148.208] (207-229-148-208.d.enteract.com [207.229.148.208]) by smtp-1.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BEF4C096 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:53:58 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9pr3i1+10eqk@e...> References: <9pr3i1+10eqk@e...> Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:48:32 -0500 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ballyalley] Re: Astrocade Images: What does one want? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Russ Perry Jr At 2:37 AM +0000 10/8/01, Ward Shrake wrote: > Russ wrote: >> At 11:20 PM -0400 9/27/01, spudboy wrote: >>> I like the idea of having two different multicarts. One with >>> all the released and prototype games. The other with a best >>> of homebrew games. >> There may be issues of cost, but otherwise this isn't a bad idea. > Whoa, whoa! Hold on there, guys! You assume far too much, and are > beginning to really scare the heck out of me?! Please slow down! > > As the guy actually making these multicarts, I do NOT like the idea > of making multiple multicarts! Whoa yourself, no one said YOU had to do it. :-) > As I've also said in my Multicart, what's the advantage of having a > menu on the screen? You'd just have to flip manually through half a > dozen or more different screens to use anything? Why is that better? I just prefer it. I'm not sure I could rationalize it to you, but I think it's cleaner, probably stacks nicer with other carts, means less monkeying by the system to change games, looks cooler... >> What lines are we talking about here? > Address lines above 1k, or any suitable substitute for them. The only > lines that are available at the cartridge port itself are those that > are 100% necessary to have one memory chip operate, of no larger than > 8k in total size. (That's all Bally could imagine as ever necessary.) So 8K is the limit, gotcha. [copyrights] > Now THERE is a project worthy of attention, guys!? Help Adam out on > this, if you are honestly wondering what you can do to help others? Does anyone have any clue where to start on this? I can try to help a bit... [Jamie] > In a recent e-mail, she told me that she believes she still has some > Astrocade stuff stored in boxes somewhere, and that it may or may not > be anything more than I already have, ROM-image wise? She told me > that she'll share what she can, to include in the existing ROM-image > library. It would be awesome if she had some heretofore unknown items. > I do agree that the audio CD would be cool, too. It is > not like I see it as competition with my multicart project, at all? I sure hope not. I see both as important. In general, I meant a lot of what I said as comments, not as suggestions or arguments. I probably should have just let this thread go uncommented, as I know you've put a lot of work into this and didn't mean to get your dander up. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From lance@a... Sun Oct 07 22:05:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 8 Oct 2001 05:02:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 36369 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 05:02:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 8 Oct 2001 05:02:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail40.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.34) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 05:05:00 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail40.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011008050459.KEFM674.femail40.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 22:04:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3BC1304F.5080006@a...> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 00:49:19 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Multicart's outside world References: <9pr4pc+d8gf@e...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" Russ Perry Jr wrote: > At 2:58 AM +0000 10/8/01, Ward Shrake wrote: > >> Does anyone else like this idea? It may get us that much closer to >> having the "BallyCharger" idea become a reality? It would only work >> for games on tape, but if those were released on a CD, that'd be OK? > > > Right, I think that DOES sort of give us the hobbyist platform as far > as BASIC and small ML programs go. A reasonable compromise... Um... As the the 'AstroBasic' with the built in interface is redily available, (Vertually every Bally I see on eBay comes with one) I don't see how this brings us any closer to a "BallyCherger" than we already have! BTW I already mentioned that the existing Basic cart w/interface would do this. Lance. From ward.shrake@w... Sun Oct 07 23:35:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 8 Oct 2001 06:32:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 74098 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 06:32:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 8 Oct 2001 06:32:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.66) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 06:35:49 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.2.55] by n16.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Oct 2001 06:35:49 -0000 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 06:35:46 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Support your local homebrewers, whoever they may be Message-ID: <9prhg3+ndac@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4728 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.68.184 From: "Ward Shrake" --- In ballyalley@y..., Russ Perry Jr wrote: > > In general, I meant a lot of what I said as comments, > not as suggestions or arguments. I probably should > have just let this thread go uncommented, as I know > you've put a lot of work into this and didn't mean > to get your dander up. You didn't say anything I took badly, Russ. And I didn't mean anything bad in response. Halfway through post #285, I said... > Russ has put up with me being crabby, for many years now. > I'm sure he's used to it? (Thanks for your patience and > understanding, Russ!) ... and I'll repeat that here now. (Thanks again for everything!) Guys, I'm just very paranoid about the idea of homebrew projects in general, at present. I've been very sensitive to this whole "pressure versus motivation" and "workload versus rewards" thing, ever since a giant fiasco that happened on "rec.games.video.classic" in mid-July, regarding some CGE 2001 homebrew projects. (If a person were to look at all of my posts before and after that date, I'm certain they'd see that most of the negative-sounding ones began right after mid-July?) As a result of the things said there, a number of we homebrew types felt like we had been attacked by consumers. It resulted in the very public withdrawal of at least one Atari 2600 game that had formerly been announced as a CGE exclusive, and much hard feelings all around. Just when I calmed down from that event -- which a lot of homebrew types took as an attack on them, and not just myself -- it began to repeat itself on RGVC at regular intervals. I finally had to cancel all Usenet access to sheild my sensitive eyes from those stresses? Just when I thought THAT had solved the problem, my own web site's hosts took it upon themselves to inaugurate a new editorial feature they were trying out, by attacking homebrew efforts more vigorously than ever before! ("Digital Press" took them to task for it, as did Andrew Davie; author of Qb on the 2600, among other things.) You can read all about it for yourself on the "ClassicGaming.com" forums if you care to? A lot of people are very emotional about all this. One homebrewer publicly announced he'd have second thoughts about ever doing another game project, outside of his inner circle of friends? What worries me even more than the upset folks that are vocal about all this, are the quiet ones. As a fan of old games machines, I fear that a number of current and potential homebrewers have resigned from their volunteer posts, without having made any public announcements? I see homebrewing efforts as incredibly fragile things to begin with, and fearing that people are going to "quit" enmasse, isn't helping! It is hard for me to see so many hard-working people feel like they have been betrayed by their friends, without taking it personally? I'm sure it is hard to figure out why people like myself suddenly seem so defensive, if a person is not aware that any of that had transpired, or how deeply hurt some of us homebrewers are over it? Maybe it is just me, but at this time and on this particular subject, I'm pretty much a nervous wreck. It doesn't take much to freak me out now, at the sight of anything that tends to reminds me of all that? Bear with me on all this if you can, guys? Please? Thanks! And why not take the time to seek out guys like Bob Colbert, Sean Kelly, Andrew Davie, Joe Santulli, Randy Crihfield, John Dondzilla, or anyone else that occurs to you that has ever done anything to help retrogamers enjoy the hobby more? Genuine thanks is seldom given to such people, and is always appreciated, once the shock wears off. I made a request, in message #285, that I'll repeat here... > A suggestion: if any of you guys want to help the Astrocade > community out, and/or reward Jamie Fenton for her hard work > over the years, please consider donating to the cost of a > multicart for Jamie. I am sure she can afford to pay my asking > price, and she has not asked to be given a freebie, but I don't > want to charge her if I don't have to? However, my financial > situation simply won't allow any freebies. So I am left in the > unenviable position of wanting to give her one of my multicarts > as a freebie, but of not being able to do it. I'd be grateful > if anyone wanted to contribute a few bucks to this cause? I am happy and proud to say that I got my first response to that request, just hours after posting it! Half of her multicart will be paid for, now. (Any takers on the other half?) That helps to restore some of my lost faith in people, and just makes me feel good. :-) Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Mon Oct 08 09:49:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 8 Oct 2001 16:46:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 22827 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 16:45:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 8 Oct 2001 16:45:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.207) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 16:48:20 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 09:48:20 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 16:48:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: First ROM image on multicart Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 09:48:20 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2001 16:48:20.0379 (UTC) FILETIME=[0950F6B0:01C15019] From: "Adam Trionfo" I like Ward's idea of the first cart image being the Test program. It could be followed by Bally BASIC (as suggested). As for the rest of the images, I can't think of any order that is better than any other. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From solder_guy@m... Mon Oct 08 09:50:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 8 Oct 2001 16:50:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 33362 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 16:49:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 8 Oct 2001 16:49:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail3.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.34) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 16:49:56 -0000 Received: (from www@l...) by mail3.bigmailbox.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f98Gnt226736; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 09:49:55 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 09:49:55 -0700 Message-Id: <200110081649.f98Gnt226736@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.47.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Share your local homebrew From: "solder_guy Last Name" >>Beer with me on all this if you can, guys? Please? Thanks!<< Sure I'll share a homebrew with you! .. and I'll send you $10 for Jamie! BTW: Has anyone approached John Dondzila about coding for the Bally? Is there a Berzerk clone for the Bally? If not, maybe John could translate AMOK for the Bally ... Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Mon Oct 08 10:28:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 8 Oct 2001 17:28:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 2074 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 17:26:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2001 17:26:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.148) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 17:26:43 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 10:26:43 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 17:26:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Astrocade Development Platform Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:26:42 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2001 17:26:43.0063 (UTC) FILETIME=[65D2A870:01C1501E] From: "Adam Trionfo" Astrocade Development Platform I agree with Russ, "[the 300-BAUD interface and BASIC] DOES sort of give us the hobbyist platform as far as BASIC and small ML programs go. A reasonable compromise." I even think that this is a step toward a "BallyCharger" ("BC")." I'm not pushing this BC idea because there is already are fine ways to develop for the Bally. So what are some of those ways? The 300-BAUD interface can be hooked up to Bally BASIC and the Machine Language Manager cartridges, but 300-baud is SLOW. Find yourself AstroBASIC if you don't have it already (it's the most common Astrocade cart, for it came with every Astrocade). But BASIC isn't the development system I'm talking about. The Bally Emulator works great, and I suggest some people explore THAT area. Anyone willing to develop for the Astrocade platform has the tools already. Why keep searching? But then, I have NOT heard from even one person that knows Z-80 ML and only one person has made a peep about trying to investigate this area. I've been doing some investigation myself. I'm no ML programmer, I'll tell you that (I can't even get an image on the screen), but I'm going to start posting what I am doing so that people can put forward comments (not of the “it would be cool if,” but of the “try this, it may work for you” nature). Adam Trionfo -- October 8, 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Mon Oct 08 10:40:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 8 Oct 2001 17:40:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 24968 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 17:38:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2001 17:38:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.113) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 17:38:59 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 10:38:59 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 17:38:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Approaching Programmer on Bally Interest Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:38:58 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2001 17:38:59.0211 (UTC) FILETIME=[1C99EDB0:01C15020] From: "Adam Trionfo" Rob Mitchell asked ,"has anyone approached John Dondzila about coding for the Bally?" Yes, I hinted to John about this several months ago. He is busy (as I expected). I'm not going to bug him about it. It isn't his job to get the ball rolling. It's ours. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Mon Oct 08 11:44:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 8 Oct 2001 18:44:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 9547 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 18:44:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2001 18:44:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 18:44:03 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 11:44:02 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 18:44:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Bally Alley Web Page Re-designer? Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 11:44:02 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2001 18:44:02.0994 (UTC) FILETIME=[336FF120:01C15029] From: "Adam Trionfo" Bally Alley Web Page Re-designer? -- October 8, 2001 Glenn comments that there needs to be a good website for the Astrocade. I've always been after content over good-looks, so Bally Alley has suffered from this. Is there anyone that would like to redesign Bally Alley? I gathered information on the Astrocade, and since there was no one else to present it, Bally Alley is what I knew how to do, no graphics (except pictures), and VERY minimal design (ala Lynx). I’ve had a surprising number of comments from pleasant folks that say something like, “great site, BUT it looks ugly. Make it pretty.” I need more than just hints on how to spruce it up. I would find it a tedious job to give it a facelift, but there are people that enjoy this kind of thing. I’m not asking for anyone to “take over” Bally Alley; I will still maintain it. I just need someone with an eye for what looks, well, “pretty.” Now would also be a good time to come out and say what you would like to see. I’ll give you two of my own ideas: * Improve news section * Improve the layout Is this volunteer task up your “alley?” Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From lance@a... Mon Oct 08 18:02:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 9 Oct 2001 01:00:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 10124 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 00:59:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 9 Oct 2001 00:59:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.146) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 01:02:03 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011009010159.SDFL25011.femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 18:01:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3BC248DA.2070309@a...> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 20:46:18 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Share your local homebrew References: <200110081649.f98Gnt226736@m...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" solder_guy Last Name wrote: > Is there a Berzerk clone for the Bally? If not, maybe John could translate AMOK for the Bally ... > Well, There's my project out of the bag... :( I'm still working on the basics, like graphics & walls. Still need to study the game play of the original. I do have a Coleco & Vectrex versions for reference. I'm planning to use the Xmess as a test bed. Still undecieded on the assembler. I've been researching that most of this weekend. Anyway, Will post more when there's more to post. :) Lance F. Squire From spudboy@o... Mon Oct 08 19:17:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: spudboy@o... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 9 Oct 2001 02:17:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 20950 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 02:16:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 9 Oct 2001 02:16:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net) (167.206.5.9) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 02:16:37 -0000 Received: from bob (ool-18becc71.dyn.optonline.net [24.190.204.113]) by mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with SMTP id <0GKX006Z42ASMC@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 22:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 22:16:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Share your local homebrew To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <001701c15068$68840d30$71ccbe18@b...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_KDUYIj3jjCZGlm1dkG+7Sw)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <200110081649.f98Gnt226736@m...> <3BC248DA.2070309@a...> From: spudboy --Boundary_(ID_KDUYIj3jjCZGlm1dkG+7Sw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT solder_guy Last Name wrote: > Is there a Berzerk clone for the Bally? If not, maybe John could translate AMOK for the Bally ... > Well, There's my project out of the bag... :( I'm still working on the basics, like graphics & walls. Still need to study the game play of the original. I do have a Coleco & Vectrex versions for reference. Hey Lance, If you have any questions about the gameplay, I have the arcade game in my garage and can help you with any info that you need (such as map designs, sounds, etc) -Mike --Boundary_(ID_KDUYIj3jjCZGlm1dkG+7Sw) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
 


solder_guy Last Name wrote:

> Is there a Berzerk clone for the Bally?   If not, maybe John could translate AMOK for the Bally ...
>

Well, There's my project out of the bag... :(

I'm still working on the basics, like graphics & walls. Still need to
study the game play of the original. I do have a Coleco & Vectrex
versions for reference.
Hey Lance,
If you have any questions about the gameplay, I have the arcade game in my garage and can help you with any info that you need (such as map designs, sounds, etc)
 
-Mike
--Boundary_(ID_KDUYIj3jjCZGlm1dkG+7Sw)-- From solder_guy@m... Mon Oct 08 19:37:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 9 Oct 2001 02:37:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 92307 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 02:36:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Oct 2001 02:36:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail10.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.41) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 02:36:16 -0000 Received: (from www@l...) by mail10.bigmailbox.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f992aGt25316; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:36:16 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:36:16 -0700 Message-Id: <200110090236.f992aGt25316@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.34.78] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Re: [ballyalley] Share your local homebrew From: "solder_guy Last Name" >>Well, There's my project out of the bag... << Of course not! It was just a thought ... And if you make Berzerk for the Bally .. I will play it!!! Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From slapdash@e... Mon Oct 08 20:13:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 9 Oct 2001 03:13:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 88109 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 03:13:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Oct 2001 03:13:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.enteract.com) (207.229.143.4) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 03:13:11 -0000 Received: from [207.229.148.145] (207-229-148-145.d.enteract.com [207.229.148.145]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BAEED3FF for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 22:13:10 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9prhg3+ndac@e...> References: <9prhg3+ndac@e...> Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 22:07:47 -0500 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Support your local homebrewers, whoever they may be Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Russ Perry Jr At 6:35 AM +0000 10/8/01, Ward Shrake wrote: >> A suggestion: if any of you guys want to help the Astrocade >> community out, and/or reward Jamie Fenton for her hard work >> over the years, please consider donating to the cost of a >> multicart for Jamie. >I am happy and proud to say that I got my first response to that >request, just hours after posting it! Half of her multicart will be >paid for, now. (Any takers on the other half?) That helps to restore >some of my lost faith in people, and just makes me feel good. :-) I'll volunteer to help pay for it, but I don't think I can cover the other half. Put me down for $20, and I might be able to help with more later. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From slapdash@e... Mon Oct 08 20:17:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 9 Oct 2001 03:17:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 50375 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 03:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Oct 2001 03:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-1.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 03:17:18 -0000 Received: from [207.229.148.145] (207-229-148-145.d.enteract.com [207.229.148.145]) by smtp-1.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 406DF64A0 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 22:17:17 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 22:11:53 -0500 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade Development Platform Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Russ Perry Jr At 10:26 AM -0700 10/8/01, Adam Trionfo wrote: >The Bally Emulator works great, and I suggest some people explore THAT area. Emulators are decent for alpha, but stuff should be tested on real hardware ideally. I know Daniel Bienvenu has had some problems with one or two of his Colecovision games working on emulators, but not real hardware. >Anyone willing to develop for the Astrocade platform has the tools already. >Why keep searching? But then, I have NOT heard from even one person that >knows Z-80 ML While I've done assembly language stuff in the past, I never got to the Z80 or 6502. 6809 is as close as I come (so I should at least do a Vectrex game, I guess). >and only one person has made a peep about trying to investigate this area. I wouldn't mind, but realistically, that isn't going to happen any time soon. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From ward.shrake@w... Tue Oct 09 19:59:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 10 Oct 2001 02:59:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 95622 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 02:59:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Oct 2001 02:59:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 02:59:52 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.4.66] by n4.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2001 02:59:43 -0000 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 02:59:46 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Share your local homebrew Message-ID: <9q0dj2+p7vs@e...> In-Reply-To: <200110081649.f98Gnt226736@m...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 544 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.226 From: "Ward Shrake" --- In ballyalley@y..., "solder_guy Last Name" wrote: > >>Beer with me on all this if you can, guys? Please? Thanks!<< > > Sure I'll share a homebrew with you! .. and I'll send you $10 > for Jamie! Coolness. Thanks. That's $60 of the purchase price, with $40 left to go. I'm taking it on faith the rest will show up eventually: I have already told Jamie that her multicart will be a freebie from the BallyAlley folks, as a token of gratitude. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Tue Oct 09 20:04:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 10 Oct 2001 03:04:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 62409 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 03:04:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 10 Oct 2001 03:04:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 03:04:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.2.208] by n29.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2001 03:04:03 -0000 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 03:04:00 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Support your local homebrewers, whoever they may be Message-ID: <9q0dr0+2n8l@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 363 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.226 From: "Ward Shrake" --- In ballyalley@y..., Russ Perry Jr wrote: > I'll volunteer to help pay for it, but I don't think I can cover the > other half. Put me down for $20, and I might be able to help with > more later. That's $80 total now guys... just $20 more covers it. (Thanks again!) Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Tue Oct 09 23:56:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 10 Oct 2001 06:56:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 37559 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 06:56:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 10 Oct 2001 06:56:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.49) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 06:56:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.94] by n10.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2001 06:56:03 -0000 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 06:55:59 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Support your local homebrewers, whoever they may be Message-ID: <9q0rdv+t3bi@e...> In-Reply-To: <9q0dr0+2n8l@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 186 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.68.66 From: "Ward Shrake" I just got in another $5 offer towards Jamie's multicart. That only leaves $15 not spoken for. Thanks, guys! Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Wed Oct 10 13:10:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 10 Oct 2001 20:07:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 44101 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 20:07:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 10 Oct 2001 20:07:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.82) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 20:10:26 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.93] by n22.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2001 20:10:26 -0000 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 20:10:26 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Support your local homebrewers, whoever they may be Message-ID: <9q29vi+4med@e...> In-Reply-To: <9q0rdv+t3bi@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 213 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.64.33 From: "Ward Shrake" So far, five guys have donated $90 total towards a multicart for Jamie Fenton. Only $10 left to go, if there are any other volunteers? Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Sat Oct 13 10:47:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 13 Oct 2001 17:47:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 20186 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2001 17:47:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 13 Oct 2001 17:47:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Oct 2001 17:47:31 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.113] by n25.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Oct 2001 17:47:30 -0000 Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 17:47:28 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Support your local homebrewers, whoever they may be Message-ID: <9q9ung+m17v@e...> In-Reply-To: <9q29vi+4med@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 225 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.22 From: "Ward Shrake" Thanks guys... I got in the last $10 I needed, to be able to send a donated Bally Multicart to Jamie Fenton. I appreciate it, and Jamie will too! Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Mon Oct 15 01:02:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 15 Oct 2001 08:02:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 92328 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 08:02:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 15 Oct 2001 08:02:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 08:02:39 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.32] by n18.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Oct 2001 08:02:39 -0000 Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:02:37 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Improving multicart memory efficiency Message-ID: <9qe56t+c0ub@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5122 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.2 From: "Ward Shrake" Good news! I just did a "real life" test of the Bally multicart. I am both happy and proud to be able to say that my latest modifications not only work, but they work better than I had originally hoped! I can now mix all of the standard Bally cartridge sizes together, transparently, with no apparent problems. (That is; 2k, 4k and 8k.) Furthermore, this method allows me to cram the multicart completely full, with no wasted space at all. Every single byte of the EPROM is now useful, available space. (And I have half a megabyte of it!) The "final" numbers say that even after I've put every single ROM image that I have available onto my test-bed multicart, that there is still 132k left over to include anything that may show up later on. That's enough room left over for 16.5 additional programs of 8k each, or any combination of 2k, 4k and 8k programs that we manage to find? And if that still isn't enough room, there is still some fat that could be cut out of the existing multicart, by deleting some of the more frivilous ROM images that I've chosen to include at this point. (Things like three variations of Muncher, or 64k worth of "Quadra" that will not run without having some sort of additional RAM memory plugged into the system. That's 80k of trimmable fat, right there?) That's definitely good news, right?! I'm pretty happy about it. The only programs that are not included on my multicart, right now, are ones I didn't see any point in including, space problems or not? For instance, I left off a fourth version of "Muncher" where the only difference between it and the "Pac-Man" version that is included, is that they have different names. (Literally, only those seven bytes are different; the two programs are 100% identical, otherwise.) I left off one version of "The Incredible Wizard" that does not do anything at all, that I can tell? (I'm sending a copy of this to Mike White, so he can dissect it. A preliminary peek at its internals gave me the impression that it wasn't executable code at all, and that it may be either a cartridge game, source code, or something similar?) I also left off two "BIOS" type ROMs, as they are not application programs at all. They're copies of the internal operating system. (It is important to have those ROM images for emulation, but not for a multicart. They would simply crash, and do nothing, so why bother?) But aside from those deletions, I left everything else on. You can see the list of all available ROM images, at this web address: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/ballyrom.htm (And now, some nerdy background info, if you're interested?) As I had mentioned in earlier postings, most of the retro-gaming multicarts that were made by others in the past, never figured out how to efficiently mix programs of two or more different lengths. Guys like Sean Kelly figured out a way to work around this problem, but only by wasting huge amounts of EPROM memory space. (This is not an attempt to pick on Sean. Far from it; it is just the truth. He'd be the first to admit this was the case. I am not competing with Sean. We've chatted in e-mail, from time to time, over the years.) Basically what Sean did with his various multicarts was to add filler material onto the end of all of the shorter programs, so that they were all the same size. It wasn't perfect, but it did work. Because Sean's circuit worked, other homebrew multicart guys copied Sean's circuit whenever they made a multicart of their own. (To the best of my knowledge, my Bally multicart will be the first EPROM-efficient multicart made by a fan of these now-ancient video game systems?) Here's an example: let's say a given system's multicart had to include programs of 8k and 16k, along with an occasional 32k program. To make each program be the same length as the longest program, you have to waste 24k for every 8k program included, and 16k for every 16k program you include, to make them all be 32k long. (If you had an oddball 24k program, even that would waste 8k, to pad it out to 32k.) Add that sort of waste up over many carts, and things get out of hand very quickly. Suddenly you're required to have two or three times the amount of EPROM chips on the multicart, as the actual programs would require if you could make better use of the memory that you have? That or you have to tell people they can't have a game that's one size on the same multicart that includes programs of another size. My method involves adding one extra chip into the multicart; an "OR" gate. These are pretty common chips, and sell for just a buck or two. I'll leave it here, for now. Maybe later I'll write something up and spread the good news around the retrogaming community's techs, so other multicart guys can integrate this system into future carts? My immediate concern, however, is getting back to my so-called multicart "assembly line," so I can get a few of my orders filled before people grow tired of waiting for my slow self.... :-) Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Mon Oct 15 12:25:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 15 Oct 2001 19:25:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 43143 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 19:25:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Oct 2001 19:25:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 19:25:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.112] by n5.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Oct 2001 19:13:40 -0000 Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:13:38 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Silly request related to the multicart Message-ID: <9qfch2+51g0@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1240 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.65.136 From: "Ward Shrake" Is someone willing to sell me one boxed copy of any random game, made by either Bally or Astrocade? (Or better yet, one of each?) I don't even care about the game itself; I just want a good copy of the original packaging. I want the box style where the front of the box is just an open hole, and the instruction sheet shows through the front of the box itself. (That may be all of the original packaging, except for an occasional early one that was sold on a shrink card?) The reason I want to obtain these original items is so that I can make the "DIP switch setting instruction sheet" for the multicart be as close to the feel or style of the original packaging as I can reasonably make it, given expected limits. I have to make a printed instruction sheet anyway, to ship to my multicart customers. I was thinking about making them in color anyway, so why not try to make up an original style instruction book / front cover artwork instead? (No promises on this, mind you... it is just an idea at this point.) For right now, the printed instructions will likely be the boring black and white lists. But I'd like to explore this other idea more? Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Wed Oct 17 08:04:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 17 Oct 2001 15:04:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 64204 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 15:04:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 17 Oct 2001 15:04:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.22) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 15:04:45 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:04:45 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:04:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: MAME Save and Load state Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:04:45 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Oct 2001 15:04:45.0288 (UTC) FILETIME=[0E8D1680:01C1571D] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Is there anyway to save the state of the Astrocade memory using MAME? The help states 'Save = F7', and 'Load = F1', but I have not been able to get this feature to work. This would be usful when using the emulator to write small BASIC programs. I actually could REALLY use this feature right now. Anyone have any luck? Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From solder_guy@m... Thu Oct 18 08:27:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 18 Oct 2001 15:27:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 56138 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 15:26:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 18 Oct 2001 15:26:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail8.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.39) by mta3 with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 15:26:59 -0000 Received: (from www@l...) by mail8.bigmailbox.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f9IFQwn20120; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:26:58 -0700 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:26:58 -0700 Message-Id: <200110181526.f9IFQwn20120@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.44.177] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Silly request related to the multicart From: "solder_guy Last Name" X-Yahoo-Profile: solder_guy >>Is someone willing to sell me one boxed copy of any random game, made by either Bally or Astrocade?<< I can send you an Astrocade box ... The Bally box I have seen was not impressive at all! Looked to be for displaying for sale one audio cassette! Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ward.shrake@w... Fri Oct 19 09:55:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 19 Oct 2001 16:55:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 30051 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 16:55:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Oct 2001 16:55:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.62) by mta3 with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 16:55:52 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.2.230] by n12.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Oct 2001 16:55:51 -0000 Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:55:48 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Silly request related to the multicart Message-ID: <9qpluk+1l5j@e...> In-Reply-To: <200110181526.f9IFQwn20120@m...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 360 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.28 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan Let me see if I win an eBay auction for some boxed carts, first. If I do, that solves that. If not, I'll still be looking for a box and the instruction card from at least one game, so I can see the style of the instruction card overall, as well as its overall size, and how much of the front panel shows through the open-faced original boxes. Ward Shrake From ballyalley@h... Fri Oct 19 20:00:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 20 Oct 2001 03:00:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 94657 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 03:00:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 20 Oct 2001 03:00:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.91) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 03:00:40 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 20:00:40 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 03:00:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: MAME emulation keyboard macros? Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 20:00:40 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Oct 2001 03:00:40.0577 (UTC) FILETIME=[66B98710:01C15913] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo I have been using the Astrocade MAME emulator often lately. I manage with the keyboard (well, kinda). Since the emulator has the keys all over the keyboard; I am looking for some short cuts. Does anyone know of a Windows (98) Macro utility that would record a macro for ANY key? Not just with ALT or CTRL, but with ANY key. For instance, pressing 'e' would actually be the same as pressing 'zero' and 's,' one after the other (NOT at the same time). Such a utility program would be VERY useful when using AstroBASIC. Yes, this topic has been brought up before, but this seems like a possible work-around. Then again, maybe not (MAME probably wouldn't accept these keystrokes from Windows). Anyone have a clear answer on this? Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Sat Oct 20 14:21:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 20 Oct 2001 21:21:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 28833 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 21:21:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Oct 2001 21:21:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.164) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 21:21:03 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 14:21:02 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 21:21:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Z80 Disassembly News Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 14:21:02 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Oct 2001 21:21:02.0948 (UTC) FILETIME=[1F1FDA40:01C159AD] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Z80 Disassembly News Here is some Z80 disassembly news that is relevant to the Astrocade and is part of my ongoing investigation into using freely distributable software for the creation of future Astrocade programs. I wrote the author of dZ80 (a Z80 disassembler) with a specific Astrocade related question. He replied with an informative email. Both my question and his answer are useful to anyone keeping an eye on this “program a new game” subject. Here is my question to the Mark: I have read over your documentation and am looking for a feature. Maybe this is hidden in your software and you can explain to me how to do it. First some short background. The Bally Astrocade has an op-code reserved, $FF, that calls subroutines. This creates havoc with a disassembly because everything after the $FF is interpreted incorrectly (well, correctly, but not from the point of view of the Astrocade). When dZ80 hits a byte with $FF, I need it to follow some different instructions on how to understand it. For example, if disassembly beginning with address $2000 for these seven bytes, FF 1B 00 4A 00 11 00, I will get this right now: 2000 FF RST $38 2001 1B DEC DE 2002 00 NOP 2003 4A LD C,D 2004 00 NOP 2005 110900 LD DE,$0009 This makes the rest of the disassembled program wrong (just as hitting graphics would). What I need to see, using the exact same hex bytes, is: 2000 FF RST $38 ; SYSSUK 2001 1B .DEFB $1B 2001 00 .DEFB $00 2003 4A .DEFB $4A 2004 00 .DEFB $00 2005 11 .DEFB $11 2006 00 .DEFB $00 Your program, obviously, can not just do this normally. Is there some undocumented way for your program to take parameters for the disassembly other than the mapping feature? Can it accept code to let it do this? Following is some completely generic pseudo-code (that looks more complicated than it is). Could I twist dZ80 to do something like this? MULTCALL = 0 Read address byte as BYTEA If BYTEA = $FF then Read address BYTEA+1 as BYTEB If BYTEB is an even byte then Print BYTEA, OPCODE, ; SYSTEM If BYTEB = $00 then Print BYTEB, ; INTPC - Multiple Calls While MULTCALL = 0 Read address BYTEB+1 as BYTEC Print BYTEC, ; Subroutine #, BYTEC Read from a table how many arguments (bytes) subroutine requires Read a byte, then define a byte as .BYTE, for each required argument Read address BYTEC+1+argument_numbers as BYTED If BYTED <> $02 then MULTCALL = 1 then Print BYTEC, ; EXIT End if ; check for $02 Wend End if ; Check for $00 If BYTEB is an odd byte then Print BYTEA, ; SYSSUK Read address BYTE+1 as BYTEC Print BYTEC, ; Subroutine #, BYTEC Read from a table how many arguments (bytes) subroutine at address BYTEC requires Read a byte, then define a byte as .DEFB for each required argument End if ; Check if odd byte End if ; Check if $FF byte The above isn’t written in stone, but I hope it gives you the idea I’m looking for. Am I asking for something that a disassemble program just can’t do? To which the author, Mark, replies: Unfortunately, it's not currently possible to do what you require with dZ80 as the RST handlers are system dependant. On the Sinclair ZX Spectrum, a RST $10 signals the start of a string of characters to be printed terminated by a byte with bit 7 set, so the Spectrum disassemblies are incorrect, in the same way yours are. I have a reasonably large "to do" list for dZ80, and I will add "RST handling" to it - I think it would be cool to have. How I will do this, I'm not sure at the moment. I may bring in a 3rd party scripting language such as LUA to handle it, so that it can be customized completely. However I do it, don't expect it to be done this side of Xmas! Especially with a 10 day old daughter on the scene :) Does this news hit home with anyone on the Astrocade group? Does anyone know a work around, or another program that allows this feature? How about experience with Gameboy assemblers and disassemblers? -Adam Trionfo, October 20, 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From smokebowl420@y... Sat Oct 20 17:07:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: smokebowl420@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 21 Oct 2001 00:07:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 42168 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 00:07:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 21 Oct 2001 00:07:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.49) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 00:07:26 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: smokebowl420@y... Received: from [10.1.2.23] by n10.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Oct 2001 00:07:26 -0000 Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 00:07:22 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hey Guys.. New here BUT Message-ID: <9qt3jq+jusi@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 255 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.112.199.48 From: smokebowl420@y... X-Yahoo-Profile: smokebowl420 Hey, I just found this group, wanted to let you guys know I have a Rare white Astrocade up for auction on Ebay, if anyone is interested check it out http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=dlh41 0&sort=2&since=-1&page=1&rows=0 From ward.shrake@w... Sun Oct 21 12:27:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 21 Oct 2001 19:27:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 25430 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 19:27:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Oct 2001 19:27:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n34.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.30) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 19:27:44 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.2.59] by n34.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Oct 2001 19:27:44 -0000 Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:27:41 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Silly request related to the multicart Message-ID: <9qv7jd+6g3p@e...> In-Reply-To: <9qpluk+1l5j@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 214 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.6 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan "Never mind" on my initial request. I did win an eBay auction, so I have the boxed games I needed. I won't need any more. Thanks anyway. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From cybpunks@h... Mon Oct 22 15:29:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 22 Oct 2001 22:29:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 56342 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 22:29:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 22 Oct 2001 22:29:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 22:29:52 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.125] by n3.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2001 22:29:51 -0000 Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 22:29:48 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bally Alley Web Page Re-designer? Message-ID: <9r26ks+6qe4@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1245 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.75 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Glenn comments that there needs to be a good website for the Astrocade. > I've always been after content over good-looks, so Bally Alley has suffered > from this. Is there anyone that would like to redesign Bally Alley? I am rusty at design since I became a cold fusion guy. It requires an artistic mindset that I normally don't find myself in, but I used to do a lot of that. Anyway, I thought that the new Bally Alley design should start with a theme. If you take AtariAge as an example, they use the circular theme. The AtariAge logo is the two chevrons with the circle. At the right are various circles that allow you to filter based on platform. It has a classic color scheme of two complementary colors over a white background. It has the classic top/left navigational system, no frames. It could be better, but it does illustrate what tends to work with web page designs. For Bally Alley, I think the PBS-head-like logo of the original Bally system should be the site logo, and then reuse the shape throughout. The design of the site should be modern first, retro second. That's why I think it's generally a bad idea to use the woodgrain. From cybpunks@h... Mon Oct 22 15:52:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 22 Oct 2001 22:52:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 36966 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 22:52:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Oct 2001 22:52:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.46) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 22:52:58 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.2.11] by n7.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2001 22:52:58 -0000 Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 22:52:53 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Support your local homebrewers, whoever they may be Message-ID: <9r2805+m1eq@e...> In-Reply-To: <9prhg3+ndac@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2846 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.75 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo --- In ballyalley@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > Guys, I'm just very paranoid about the idea of homebrew projects in > general, at present. I've been very sensitive to this whole "pressure > versus motivation" and "workload versus rewards" thing, ever since a Anybody who sells a product to the public has to deal with complaints. Complaints about the quality, complaints about the ordering process, complaints about the public relations. You can't please all the people all of the time. Consumers mostly give negative feedback, not positive feedback. Be ready for it. Know the difference between a vocal minority and a real issue related to your product. If one's hobby involves sales to consumers, then hobby or not, these issues will come up. I know that sounds very standoffish, but really. If anything homebrewing is a lesson in consumer psychology. The problem is that classic game programmers and hardware hackers tend not to be skilled in the fine art of public relations. (Yours truly included) What makes things worse is that these projects are mainly created out of a personal desire to accomplish something. Meeting the requests of the prospective market is an afterthought. So this can cause friction as well. When the creator tells the consumer he's really only doing it to please himself, not the consumer, and that the consumer's request is automatically null and void, it can cause some bitterness and powerlessness on the side of the consumer, that he is not being given proper consideration. The rules of regular business economics really fall apart when you get to the threshold between business and hobby. But the consumer will still attempt to interface with you as if you were a company, not just an individual. If you want to do something primarily for yourself, and you don't want to deal with public relations, then I suggest outsourcing the distribution and not fielding complaints and requests. Let it be a Hozer Video Games release, or a Best Electronics release. If you want to do something for the consumer, then you really have to develop an affinity for fielding their advice in a diplomatic manner. It can be rewarding to learn that skill if one of the side goals of the project is developing a sustainable home-based business. As they say, the customer is always right. You simply can't legislate that the classic gaming public lavish all homebrewers with unconditional praise over their every move. It's just not going to happen in the real world. You can warn them that if they aren't nice enough, homebrewers will retreat and reitre in disgust, but even that won't be enough to prevent any and all possible issues. It's really up to homebrewers to recognize these forces for what they are and cope with them as best they can. From cybpunks@h... Mon Oct 22 15:56:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 22 Oct 2001 22:56:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 48644 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 22:56:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 22 Oct 2001 22:56:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 22:56:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.114] by n8.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2001 22:56:41 -0000 Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 22:56:41 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Stellalist Message-ID: <9r2879+u0rs@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 715 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.75 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo I got a couple nibbles on Stellalist regarding homebrew games developing on the Astrocade. However, I think it's a given that we are going to need better tools and some sort of roadmap/FAQ to get people started. The most important single thing that I think should be done: The Nutting Manual really needs to be transcribed to ASCII. OCR I guess won't work because of the photocopy protection strip. During the transcription, it should be annotated by someone who knows enough to explain some of the ideosynchratic terms used to relate it to modern Z80 assembly. Unlike the 2600, the Astrocade has an OS ROM, and therefore there is a lot more to absorb vs. the relatively thin 2600 programmer's guide. From ward.shrake@w... Tue Oct 23 00:12:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 23 Oct 2001 07:12:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 52521 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 07:12:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 23 Oct 2001 07:12:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.31) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 07:12:30 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.100] by n15.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2001 07:12:26 -0000 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 07:12:28 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Support your local homebrewers, whoever they may be Message-ID: <9r358s+g7l5@e...> In-Reply-To: <9r2805+m1eq@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1685 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.52 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Glenn Saunders" wrote: > You simply can't legislate that the classic gaming public > lavish all homebrewers with unconditional praise over their > every move. It's just not going to happen in the real world. Agreed. But a certain amount of empathy and decent manners shouldn't be too much to ask from others. I think that's all we've asked for? > You can warn them that if they aren't nice enough, homebrewers > will retreat and reitre in disgust, Until your typing fingers are bleeding from the effort, actually. It doesn't accomplish much, I'm afraid. > but even that won't be enough to prevent any and all > possible issues. Absolutely. Which makes the situation a "hopeless case" in the minds of many. Mark my words... considerable damage has been done lately! I've been very vocal about it since July, but I know I'm not the only one thinking the things that I've said. I suspect that most projects will be done "underground" from now on, if they are done at all? Volunteers don't resign, they just don't bother coming back. > It's really up to homebrewers to recognize these > forces for what they are and cope with them as best they can. We recognize poor manners when we see them. We recognize blind greed when we see it. We recognize an appalling lack of empathy when we see it. Why would anyone want to look any farther than that? The best way to cope with abuse, is to get away from the abusers. Some people are not worth dealing with, under any circumstances. Other people are consistently great to deal with. It is just basic human nature to want to get rid of weeds, and to enjoy the flowers. Ward Shrake From kzazz007@y... Tue Oct 23 06:23:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: kzazz007@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 23 Oct 2001 13:23:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 36426 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 13:23:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 23 Oct 2001 13:23:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.48) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 13:23:46 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: kzazz007@y... Received: from [10.1.2.52] by n9.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2001 13:23:43 -0000 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:23:33 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New member Message-ID: <9r3r0l+unhr@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 822 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 209.246.90.17 From: kzazz007@y... X-Yahoo-Profile: kzazz007 Hello. I am new to the group. I had a bally astrocade when I was a kid and, I thought it was the greatest game ever, especially after "The Incredible Wizard" came out. I recently purchased another system on eBay and have renewed my interest in the game (and have been bidding on eBay items for the last two months or so.) I stumbled on to Adam's site (awesome!)after a Google search, which led me here. I am very happy to have found even a handful of people who have an interest in the Bally system. I've been reading some of the posting and I'm intrigued, although I'm not a programmer and much of the jargon seems over my head. For now, I will try to absorb some of this new information (which seems overwhelming at first) and I'm hopeful that I can contribute in some small way in the future. Thanks. Kevin From ballyalley@h... Tue Oct 23 13:13:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 23 Oct 2001 20:13:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 26632 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 20:13:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 23 Oct 2001 20:13:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.194) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 20:13:50 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:13:50 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:13:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Bally Alley Web Page Re-designer? Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:13:50 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Oct 2001 20:13:50.0818 (UTC) FILETIME=[3B06E420:01C15BFF] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >For Bally Alley, I think the PBS-head-like logo of the original Bally >system should be the site logo, and then reuse the shape throughout. The "head" logo is a good idea. That goes along with the whole 70's idea of a people's computer. >The design of the site should be modern first, retro second. That's >why I think it's generally a bad idea to use the woodgrain. As long as the site is easy to navigate, I don't mind how it looks (though 'cool' color are a plus). Getting rid of the woodgrain is not an option. It has has to be there somewhere. Beside's Glenn's comment, I have not had even one bite on the web-site redesign that I put forward. Is anyone interested? Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Tue Oct 23 13:29:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 23 Oct 2001 20:29:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 76389 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 20:29:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 23 Oct 2001 20:29:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.139) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 20:29:49 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:29:49 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:29:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Stellalist: On Tools, FAQ, Nutting, ROM source Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:29:48 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Oct 2001 20:29:49.0019 (UTC) FILETIME=[7628C2B0:01C15C01] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >However, I think it's a given that we are going to need better tools The tools to program the Astrocade are available, though a rich-featured assembler would be great. >and some sort of roadmap/FAQ to get people started. A short program that writes to the screen would be a great start. Take a look at the games, it is in there... (like I hadda tell ya that) >The Nutting Manual really needs to be transcribed to ASCII. OCR I >guess won't work because of the photocopy protection strip. I've tried to OCR the Nutting manual, but all the sideway's text totally screws it up. A group of people here, typing a couple of pages a week couple knock it out fairly quickly (not counting the source). >During the transcription, it should be annotated by someone who knows >enough to explain some of the ideosynchratic terms used to relate it >to modern Z80 assembly. > >Unlike the 2600, the Astrocade has an OS ROM, and therefore there is >a lot more to absorb vs. the relatively thin 2600 programmer's guide. The source Z-80 ROM source code is well commented, I can even follow it. The trouble is, my assembly skills are weak, and so following and understanding are not exactly the same. Glenn is right, a FAQ is needed. A few people, talking to one another, could get this going. Trouble is, noone has yet come forward to try. Eventually... Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Tue Oct 23 13:46:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 23 Oct 2001 20:46:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 3221 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 20:46:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 23 Oct 2001 20:46:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.100) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 20:46:56 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:46:52 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:46:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Welcome to the Astrocade group Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:46:52 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Oct 2001 20:46:52.0957 (UTC) FILETIME=[D8794CD0:01C15C03] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >Hello. I am new to the group. "Welcome. You've got mail." >[I like the Astrocade] especially after "The Incredible Wizard" >came out That sure seems to be everyone's favorite. The Astrocade and "Wizard" seem to go hand-in-hand. >renewed my interest in the game (and have been bidding on eBay items for >the last two months or so.) That sure is fun. I'm going to be selling my Astrocade multicart on ebay for tons of money soon, so watch out for it. [Ward, Ha, Ha! kidding] >I stumbled on to Adam's site (awesome!) Thanks! >I've been reading some of the posting and I'm intrigued, although >I'm not a programmer and much of the jargon seems over my head. Don't be afraid to ask questions; it's how you learn. Besides how are you going to make "Wizard 2" if you are bashful? None of us does anything alone. Glenn swears by the Stella List (with good reason). >I'm hopeful that I can contribute in some small way in the future. Typing in the Nutting manual is a great way to start, it sure would make you popular around here (well, with me, for sure [grin]). Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From lance@a... Tue Oct 23 17:33:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Oct 2001 00:33:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 77728 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 00:33:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 24 Oct 2001 00:33:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail32.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.22) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 00:33:00 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail32.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011024003259.YSOS26359.femail32.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:32:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3BD60873.6040407@a...> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:16:51 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Welcome to the Astrocade group References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040201020406000701010103" From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian --------------040201020406000701010103 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adam Trionfo wrote: >> Hello. I am new to the group. > Welcome! Other relevent sites you might visit are: http://www.alteeve.com/~lance/Ballyfaq.html (Shameless plug ;) ) and http://echem.clemson.edu/~charlet/bshrine/ As to revamping the Bally Alley website, The thought of modeling it after the Videocade boxes came to my mind. See attached graphic for proposed logo/corner graphic. I wasen't going to get into this, as I already run a Bally/Astrocade site, but .... there it is. It's just a quick mockup. Would need more work to be usable. Re: Programming FAQ. I was planning to assemble one as I noodled out the programming project I'm working on. (No revelent new information yet) However between the Nutting Manual and the "On-board ROM Subroutines" manual, every thing you need to know is there. Apart from some group discussions to help understand, update & document some of the finer points and early names of things. Any help, questions and/or participation in this endever is much apreciated. Tools: I've aquired a number of Z80 cross assemblers. Unfortunatly, All are extreamly light on usage information. One of note is 'wla' used for Sega Master System and GameBoy Z80 work. Unfortunatly, it has some '.MEMORYMAP' and '.ROMBANKMAP' stuff I have no clue what to do with. (Anyone?) Although I'd like to do more to help, I'm already up to my eyes with what I'm doing now. (Ballyfaq site research & expansion, reserch into assembly on Bally, everything else that compriese a Life! ;) ) Lance F. 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Wed Oct 24 06:07:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Oct 2001 13:07:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 1317 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 13:06:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 24 Oct 2001 13:06:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.218) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 13:06:59 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 06:06:59 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:06:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Lance's Graphic for Bally Alley Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 06:06:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Oct 2001 13:06:59.0585 (UTC) FILETIME=[C3F49F10:01C15C8C] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo I really like Lance's 'Bally Alley' graphic (have you taken a look?). It is EXTREMELY subtle and clever. Whoever decides to continue development on the site [hint, hint] should work that in for sure. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Wed Oct 24 12:54:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Oct 2001 19:54:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 78141 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 19:54:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Oct 2001 19:54:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 19:54:20 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:54:20 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:54:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Nutting manual ASCII Conversion Project Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:54:19 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Oct 2001 19:54:20.0168 (UTC) FILETIME=[ABADA080:01C15CC5] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Nutting Manual ASCII Conversion Project The 'Nutting Manual' is the in-depth guide to programming the Bally Astrocade written in 1977 by Dave Nutting Associates. The PDF file is over 7MB long (about 150 pages of text and diagrams). You can download it from Bally Alley (in three parts) at http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/misc_docs/misc_docs.html Users connected to the Internet with modems might avoid a 7MB download, so for over a year I've thought that the manual needs to be converted to an ASCII/text file so that it can be passed around with relative ease. Glenn Saunders put this idea forward on the Astrocade discussion group, and it rekindled this desire. A file has been uploaded to the Astrocade discussion board called nutting.zip (14k). It can be downloaded from: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ Anyone can help contribute time; every little bit will help take this project closer to completion. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From bdc_2_12@y... Wed Oct 24 13:06:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bdc_2_12@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Oct 2001 20:06:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 97184 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 20:06:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 24 Oct 2001 20:06:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 20:06:29 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: bdc_2_12@y... Received: from [10.1.10.102] by n3.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Oct 2001 20:06:28 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:06:25 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Can someone help Message-ID: <9r7701+3coa@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 460 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.147.11.6 From: bdc_2_12@y... X-Yahoo-Profile: bdc_2_12 I just pulled my system out of the closet to "relive" my childhood only to find out it doesn't now. It was working fine several years ago but I'm not sure if it survived moving last year (only 10 miles). Does anyone know how I could troubleshoot this for a simple fix or am I gonna need to send it to someone. When I flip on the power, the screen acts like it is getting a signal but remains blank. Any ideas? I may sell the unit along with a few carts. From bdc_2_12@y... Wed Oct 24 13:10:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bdc_2_12@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Oct 2001 20:10:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 63603 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 20:10:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 24 Oct 2001 20:10:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 20:10:17 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: bdc_2_12@y... Received: from [10.1.10.93] by n18.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Oct 2001 20:10:17 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:10:13 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Can someone help Message-ID: <9r7775+b3a7@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 460 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.147.11.6 From: bdc_2_12@y... X-Yahoo-Profile: bdc_2_12 I just pulled my system out of the closet to "relive" my childhood only to find out it doesn't now. It was working fine several years ago but I'm not sure if it survived moving last year (only 10 miles). Does anyone know how I could troubleshoot this for a simple fix or am I gonna need to send it to someone. When I flip on the power, the screen acts like it is getting a signal but remains blank. Any ideas? I may sell the unit along with a few carts. From bdc_2_12@y... Wed Oct 24 13:11:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bdc_2_12@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Oct 2001 20:11:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 21029 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 20:11:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 24 Oct 2001 20:11:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.221) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 20:11:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: bdc_2_12@y... Received: from [10.1.10.66] by n32.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Oct 2001 20:11:21 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:11:19 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Can someone help Message-ID: <9r7797+h810@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 460 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.147.11.6 From: bdc_2_12@y... X-Yahoo-Profile: bdc_2_12 I just pulled my system out of the closet to "relive" my childhood only to find out it doesn't now. It was working fine several years ago but I'm not sure if it survived moving last year (only 10 miles). Does anyone know how I could troubleshoot this for a simple fix or am I gonna need to send it to someone. When I flip on the power, the screen acts like it is getting a signal but remains blank. Any ideas? I may sell the unit along with a few carts. From solder_guy@m... Wed Oct 24 14:13:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Oct 2001 21:13:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 91405 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 21:13:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Oct 2001 21:13:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail10.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.41) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 21:13:46 -0000 Received: (from www@l...) by mail10.bigmailbox.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f9OLDkS05039; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:13:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:13:46 -0700 Message-Id: <200110242113.f9OLDkS05039@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.44.59] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Can someone help From: "solder_guy Last Name" X-Yahoo-Profile: solder_guy >>When I flip on the power, the screen acts like it is getting a signal but remains blank.<< Sounds like it got overheated .. there is a fix that was written up some months ago .. Who has it? Also I can contribute to the Nutting ASCII project ... Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Wed Oct 24 15:02:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Oct 2001 22:02:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 17272 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 22:02:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 24 Oct 2001 22:02:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.147) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 22:02:36 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:02:36 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 22:02:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Can someone help Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:02:35 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Oct 2001 22:02:36.0071 (UTC) FILETIME=[96CB3B70:01C15CD7] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >there is a fix that was written up some months ago .. Who has it? I don't know if there is a 'fix,' but suggestions have been put forward for what it MIGHT be. Checking through the archives will turn this up. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Wed Oct 24 15:05:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Oct 2001 22:05:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 86140 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 22:05:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 24 Oct 2001 22:05:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.140) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 22:05:39 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:05:38 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 22:05:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: On contributing to the Nutting Project Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:05:38 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Oct 2001 22:05:38.0963 (UTC) FILETIME=[03CE5630:01C15CD8] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >Also I can contribute to the Nutting ASCII project ... Rob, my first victim. Contect me privately, and we will work out how we are going to do this. Probably in a very similar fashion to the way we did the FAQ. That worked out well. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From cybpunks@h... Wed Oct 24 16:20:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Oct 2001 23:20:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 17594 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 23:20:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Oct 2001 23:20:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.81) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 23:20:11 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.32] by n31.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Oct 2001 23:20:10 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:20:07 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Support your local homebrewers, whoever they may be Message-ID: <9r7ib7+vmp1@e...> In-Reply-To: <9r358s+g7l5@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 294 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.76 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> We recognize poor manners when we see them. We recognize blind greed when we see it. We recognize an appalling lack of empathy when we see it. Why would anyone want to look any farther than that? << In my experience, classic game afficionados can be very fickle, to put it delicately. From cybpunks@h... Wed Oct 24 16:24:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Oct 2001 23:24:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 61058 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 23:24:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Oct 2001 23:24:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 23:24:55 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.93] by n2.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Oct 2001 23:24:38 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:23:22 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bally Alley Web Page Re-designer? Message-ID: <9r7iha+f50m@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 383 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.76 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> As long as the site is easy to navigate, I don't mind how it looks (though 'cool' color are a plus). Getting rid of the woodgrain is not an option. It has has to be there somewhere. << I would just make sure not use patterned backgrounds. It makes text harder to read in most cases. Besides, don't you think the 2600 is more associated with woodgrain than the Bally? From cybpunks@h... Wed Oct 24 16:36:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Oct 2001 23:36:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 43493 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 23:36:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Oct 2001 23:36:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.66) by mta2 with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 23:36:56 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.105] by n16.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Oct 2001 23:36:49 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:36:51 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Nutting manual ASCII Conversion Project Message-ID: <9r7jaj+kapp@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 885 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.76 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo Adam, you should chop up the Nutting manual into segments and then coordinate passing out the transcription task to people. This is a mindless enough project that if the few people on this list volunteer to do a small part, we might get somewhere, even if it took a few months. I'd be willing to spend a half hour at the end of my workday on this, although most of my free time at home is earmarked for my Death Derby 2600 game. I'd also be willing to take the final ASCII nutting manual and reformat it as a series of well formatted HTML pages. Something similar is being done on Stellalist with the Stella programmer's guide. Being able to random access through it via hyperlinks would really increase its usefulness. The Bally is a complicated system compared to the 2600 and the quality and navigability of this documentation is key in facilitating development. From cybpunks@h... Wed Oct 24 16:49:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Oct 2001 23:49:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 65686 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 23:49:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 24 Oct 2001 23:49:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.81) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 23:49:48 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.133] by n21.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Oct 2001 23:49:10 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:47:53 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New Hardware Message-ID: <9r7jv9+tdgv@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1077 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.76 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo Another person to pursue for new hardware would be Richard Hutchinson who made the VECRAM cartridge for the Vectrex. He's in the UK so I don't know if the Bally made it over there or whether he'd be able to hook an NTSC one to his TV. I also think the path to new hardware could be shortened if whoever volunteered to do this had schematics for previous RAM expanders like the VIPER or BLUE RAM. They could simply miniaturize these designs down into a programmable gate array (like what is in the Cuttle Cart) and slap on some form of I/O, whether it be parallel (like the VecRAM), serial (like the Intellicharger) or audio (like the Cuttle Cart). It might also be possible to bit-bang one or more of the controller ports directly and avoid the need for extra I/O hardware, then you could just build a custom cable to connect to the controllers. That's how the 7800 DEVOS works, for instance. The Bally has no shortage of ports as it is. How fast can the Light Pen port be driven? The Z80 is no speed demon, but i'm sure it can do more than 300 baud. From ballyalley@h... Wed Oct 24 18:20:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 25 Oct 2001 01:20:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 93628 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 01:20:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 25 Oct 2001 01:20:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.10) by mta3 with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 01:20:30 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:20:30 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 01:20:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Living by the Woodgrain Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:20:29 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2001 01:20:30.0096 (UTC) FILETIME=[3C43A900:01C15CF3] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >... don't you think the 2600 is more associated with woodgrain >than the Bally? I don't associate woodgrain so much with the VCS and Astrocade as I do with 70's in general. Everything that was 'good' had a nice plastic woodgrain. I've seen retro seventies sites (that are not game related) and they don't skimp on the woodgrain. The point is kind of mote though: I like cheesy, stupid, seventies plastic woodgrain. So, by association, Bally Alley likes it too. Maybe I'll even call the Bally CD 'Worship the Astrocade's Woodgrain.' It could happen. I mean this to be funny, by the way, not rude. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Wed Oct 24 18:38:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 25 Oct 2001 01:38:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 96836 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 01:37:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 25 Oct 2001 01:37:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.54) by mta2 with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 01:37:59 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:37:59 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 01:37:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] New Hardware Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:37:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2001 01:37:59.0658 (UTC) FILETIME=[ADDA1CA0:01C15CF5] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >> I don't know if the Bally made it over there [the UK] >> There is no version of the Astrocade except for NTSC. So, while I'm sure some Astrocade's made it to the shores of the UK somehow, they were not distibuted there. >> I also think the path to new hardware could be shortened if whoever volunteered to do this had schematics for previous RAM expanders like the VIPER or BLUE RAM. >> The Blue RAM schematics are here: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/perkins/blue_ram_schematics.pdf The R&L 64K RAM board schematics are in this document: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/misc_docs/64k_ram_board.pdf I don't have any in-depth information on the Viper. >> How fast can the Light Pen port be driven? The Z80 is no speed demon, but i'm sure it can do more than 300 baud. >> Are you suggesting using the lightpen port as opposed to the expansion port? Only a few devices used that port (the tape interface being the most well known). It would not hurt if someone looked into this area. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From lance@a... Wed Oct 24 21:10:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 25 Oct 2001 04:10:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 78333 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 04:10:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 25 Oct 2001 04:10:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.146) by mta2 with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 04:10:18 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011025041017.ISVT29124.femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 21:10:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3BD78CDE.4020508@a...> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:54:06 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] New Hardware References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Adam Trionfo wrote: > Are you suggesting using the lightpen port as opposed to the expansion port? > Only a few devices used that port (the tape interface being the most well > known). It would not hurt if someone looked into this area. > > Adam > Although I don't have one of the original tape interfaces, I do have a badly faded schematic for it. I'm 99.8% sure that all data is pumped through the controller ports. The light pen port is only used as a +5v source. (None on the controller ports) I to would like to contribute to the text & html translation of the Nutting Manual. Sectioning the work is the best idea to avoid complications & duplication of work. Ah well... much to do.... Lance From ballyalley@h... Thu Oct 25 06:49:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 25 Oct 2001 13:49:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 79148 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 13:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 25 Oct 2001 13:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.130) by mta1 with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 13:49:17 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 06:49:17 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:49:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Volunteer Assignments - Part 1 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 06:49:17 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2001 13:49:17.0597 (UTC) FILETIME=[D72444D0:01C15D5B] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Volunteer Assignments for the 'Nutting Manual' Text Project Part 1 So far three volunteers for typing have come forward. Thanks. Anyone can help. If you are a two-finger, hunt-and-peck typist then you can do proofreading. Those that are assigned pages, please contact me via personal email to confirm. Reminder, the manual can be downloaded (in three parts) from: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/misc_docs.html Typing Assignments ------------------ Cover - DONE (Adam Trionfo) TOC - DONE (Adam Trionfo) 1 -11 - DONE (Adam Trionfo) 12-20 - In Progress - Rob Mitchell 21-30 - In Progress - Lance Squire 31-40 - In Progress - Glenn Saunders 41-50 - TODO 51-60 - TODO 61-70 - TODO 71-80 - TODO 81-90 - TODO 91-100 - TODO 101-110 - TODO 111-120 - TODO 121-130 - TODO 131-140 - TODO 141-143 - TODO ROM Source 2-7 - DONE (Adam Trionfo) Not yet - See * below. * The O.S. source needs to assemble into an identical ROM image (one of them, anyway... hopefully?), so a final assembler needs to be selected. This could be a touchy subject; any thoughts are welcome. Simple diagrams and tables in the manual will become ASCII diagrams, (see page six). How should we take care of the more complicated diagrams? Is creating a monotone GIF a good idea? How do we deal with special characters like electronic symbols or lines over a group of letters? Finally, this postings is called "Part 1" because I expect to update this file and repost when a new volunteer comes foward. Adam Trionfo -- October 25, 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ward.shrake@w... Thu Oct 25 12:41:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 25 Oct 2001 19:41:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 39425 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 19:41:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 25 Oct 2001 19:41:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 19:41:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.2.109] by n3.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Oct 2001 19:41:07 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 19:41:05 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: What are your favorite games? Message-ID: <9r9psh+q48i@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 884 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.76 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan What games are your absolute favorites for this system? (Top 5 or 10, cart or tape; it doesn't matter, since tapes can be cartridge-ized.) I'm asking because I may make a "quick reference" list of just a few of the best games, on the back of my printed manual for the upcoming Bally multicart. If I can get some vague consensus, that'd be great. I have my own ideas of what they'd be, but confirmation would help. This might also be a good way to spur on excitement for the system itself... if we all knew which games "everyone" liked the most, you could get a newcomer "hooked" on the system much easier, right? And on those lines, which games are the absolute worst? The ones that you would NEVER show to anyone, to try to "hook" them on the system? Looking forward to a lively conversation.... Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Thu Oct 25 14:27:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 25 Oct 2001 21:27:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 20375 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 21:27:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 25 Oct 2001 21:27:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n33.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.114) by mta1 with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 21:27:48 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.101] by n33.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Oct 2001 21:27:48 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:27:47 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: New Hardware Message-ID: <9ra04j+hr5c@e...> In-Reply-To: <3BD78CDE.4020508@a...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1919 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.68.110 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan As long as we're dreaming/talking about new hardware... I basically think the existing tape system that Bally uses is flawed beyond practical use, as a tool for future development. Everything I've heard to date, tells me that it is a hopelessly "iffy" device. Most of the tapes that have been recorded on it, in the past, give modern users nothing but trouble, when they try to load or copy them. But I think there may be a great way to continue to use cassette tape, if someone can work out some details? I vote that we consider using the Commodore datasette to replace the existing tape system, with whatever interface is necessary to hook it up. The datasette exists, and is plentiful on eBay. It is cheap, as well. Accessibility should not present any problems, nor add any huge costs. The reason I want everyone involved to consider using a datasette as a new form of read/write tool for future program creation on real hardware, is that it is dead nuts reliable. I am loading tapes today on my VIC-20 system that are literally twenty years old. They all run just fine. Most of them run on the first try; just pop it in and go. Even the filthy-looking, obviously abused, thrift-store tapes I have here, generally run very well. (The few that won't run, are generally my fault because I forgot those programs want a RAM expander plugged in, or they won't work.) Aside from those very important things it has in its favor, certain models can easily be modified to work as a mass duplication tool, or an archival device. I had all the details written up, years ago, on my Commodore VIC-20 web site. You can see that info at: http://classicgaming.com/vic20/tech/tapetech.htm As is usual for me, I used "maximum verbosity" in the tech article. I may write up a seriously condensed, "experts only" version later on. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Thu Oct 25 19:08:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 26 Oct 2001 02:08:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 49496 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 02:08:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Oct 2001 02:08:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.211) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 02:08:02 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 19:08:02 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 02:08:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Un-original hardware thoughts Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 19:08:02 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Oct 2001 02:08:02.0765 (UTC) FILETIME=[0B0027D0:01C15DC3] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Ward suggests using a different tape device for the Astrocade. This idea is no good, not for me. Unless it somehow will make the existing tapes load when they would not otherwise, it seems like too much trouble. Let's say that there was a free tape recorder that worked reliably for the Astrocade right now. Just plug it in, and 'boom,’ it works. We still could only make BASIC games. I’m looking for something more. Something exciting. Something FAST. Let’s hook up the 1541! For those not familiar with the C64, that was a bit of fun. Really though, any device that allows cart creation from a PC is a good idea. Right now, I’m still waiting in suspense for all those Z80 programmers to pop their heads up and say hello. -- Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ward.shrake@w... Fri Oct 26 17:02:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Oct 2001 00:02:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 13418 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 00:02:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Oct 2001 00:02:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 00:02:51 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.67] by n29.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2001 00:02:51 -0000 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 00:02:50 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Un-original hardware thoughts Message-ID: <9rctja+lqvp@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 215 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.64.18 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan I thought it was a good idea at the time, but apparently the lack of backwards compatibility is a big issue. "Never mind." I retract it. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From cybpunks@h... Fri Oct 26 17:39:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Oct 2001 00:39:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 1487 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 00:39:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 27 Oct 2001 00:39:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.46) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 00:39:18 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.68] by n7.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2001 00:39:17 -0000 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 00:39:14 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: New Hardware Message-ID: <9rcvni+q7ue@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1295 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.76 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo I read the R&L PDF and noticed that it said you would need to hardware-hack the Bally to acheive hires mode. The funny thing about this is, if the ZGrass was supposed to do hires, then that would imply that the native bally chip can do hires as wired. However, upon further investigation, I noticed that the 50 pin expansion port (get this) supports video in and video out, as well as audio in! The video and audio in are supposed to mix somehow with the regular a/v. Also, video synch signals are generated so that you could have an external video chip. So I'm thinking that maybe the ZGrass had both RAM and a hires-wired custom chip in it and output video which suppressed the internal graphics, mostly using the base unit just for I/O and the RF generator. This seems incredibly wasteful to do since the actual video chip would be the same in the undersling, just wired differently, but that's what it looks like to me. Adam, you really should get in touch with Tony Miller who was recently interviewed here: http://bb.vg-network.com/arcadehistory/tminterview.html He says that he was mostly responsible for the ZGrass undersling, and would be the one to talk to regarding the hires mode, which I think we all agree is the main goal of any memory expansion device. From cybpunks@h... Fri Oct 26 17:46:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Oct 2001 00:46:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 73759 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 00:46:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Oct 2001 00:46:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.55) by mta2 with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 00:46:45 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.2.30] by n5.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2001 00:46:45 -0000 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 00:46:40 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Un-original hardware thoughts Message-ID: <9rd05g+td34@e...> In-Reply-To: <9rctja+lqvp@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1477 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.76 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo If you want backwards compatibility, use a Bally Basic cart. It's not like they are that rare. And we're going to be archiving the old tape games anyway so they might be transferrable under a new scheme down the road. I do think that audio is the most flexible way to get data to a classic console, although not on cassette anymore. I don't know why anyone would want to keep using analog cassettes when we have PCs and CDRWs. I don't know about the C=64 tape scheme, but the one on the Supercharger is very robust, and quite fast when driven at full speed by a computer's clean audio output. However, part of the Supercharger's tape format was dependent on the 2600's 6507 itself decoding the bitstream. So you couldn't necessarily acheive the same performance on the Bally which probably has slower overall throughput than the 2600. It's just that the built-in 4K of RAM is so restrictive that even with ML there isn't much you are going to be able to do if all you provide is an interface. You've got to have something to map extra RAM in there somewhere, either a RAM cart so you can load up to 8K chunks in there or ideally something for the expansion slot. --- In ballyalley@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > I thought it was a good idea at the time, but apparently the lack of > backwards compatibility is a big issue. "Never mind." I retract it. > > Ward Shrake > Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From cybpunks@h... Fri Oct 26 18:05:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Oct 2001 01:05:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 17549 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 01:05:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 27 Oct 2001 01:05:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 01:05:26 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.96] by n3.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2001 01:05:25 -0000 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 01:05:24 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Z-100 specs Message-ID: <9rd18k+rljh@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 201 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.76 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo The Astrovision Z-100 specs I read on Bally Alley state the standard 160x100 resolution. Something is fishy there. I don't think their system is quite the same as the original Zgrass system... From cybpunks@h... Fri Oct 26 19:05:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Oct 2001 02:05:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 89554 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 02:05:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 27 Oct 2001 02:05:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.51) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 02:05:43 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.2.133] by n12.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2001 02:05:43 -0000 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 02:05:40 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Volunteer Assignments - Part 1 Message-ID: <9rd4pk+663f@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1111 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.76 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > 31-40 - In Progress - Glenn Saunders I just typed my assignment in in about 30 minutes and submitted it. I can type pretty fast. Be careful trying to determine the characters underneath the copy protection stamps. There is only one spot in this block that I am unsure about, and put a ? next to it. Other than that I was able to discern everything okay. Fixed some grammar and a spelling error along the way also ;) When transcribing the code samples and the hex addresses and values, be extra careful not to make any transcription errors... As for the tables, I really think that after we get the raw ASCII together that somebody (probably me) should go through and reformat it as HTML. Tables are what HTML does best (not to mention text indentation and so on). Special symbols can then be either HTML entities or image tags. I whipped through this today cuz it's Friday and I may not have any free time over the weekend for anything other than Death Derby. If I do, I may go on to tackle another unassigned chunk. From ballyalley@h... Sat Oct 27 09:52:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Oct 2001 16:52:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 29619 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 16:52:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 27 Oct 2001 16:52:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.66) by mta2 with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 16:52:50 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 09:52:48 -0700 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 16:52:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Volunteer Assignments - Part 1 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 09:52:48 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Oct 2001 16:52:48.0566 (UTC) FILETIME=[CF044D60:01C15F07] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Holy SMOKE! That was fast. I knew that I couldn't type fast, but now I REALLY know that I can't. I'll add your pages into the 'manual' this weekend and repost with your pages included and a DONE next to your name. Anyone else out there think they can match Glenn's speed? Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From fmillera@p... Sat Oct 27 14:19:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Oct 2001 21:19:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 84403 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 21:19:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 27 Oct 2001 21:19:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 21:19:54 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.173]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GLV00A5CV939U@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:19:49 -0700 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Un-original hardware thoughts In-reply-to: <9rd05g+td34@e...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011027140544.00af8e50@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_12956119==_.ALT" References: <9rctja+lqvp@e...> From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_12956119==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:46 AM 10/27/2001 +0000, you wrote: The address custom chip in the arcade has a register which is written to put the system into hi-res mode. But in order to do this, additional screen RAM must be added. Non-technical members can read this as "I need a new PC board" The original BPA Add-whatever (I say whatever since it changed from an add-on to an add-under to any number of add-somethings) did not have another set of address & data chips for hi-res. The only hi-res applications of the chip set were the Midway coin-op games (Gorf, clowns, I can't remember how many were done, since I was gone to the competition by then). The add-whatever had additional PROM, 4 or 16K of DRAM, an AMD numerical co-processor (the AMD 9511), the keyboard, built-in cassette hardware, keyboard, LEDs, and a few other odds & ends. I've been in touch with another ex-DNAer (Larry Leske, who did the original work on the add-on but then quit to go to Zilog). He says he thinks he may have a schematic or two of one of the add-whatevers laying around. If so, I'll se what I can do about posting it. I pitched my copies several years ago, along with my add-whatever and a Micropolis dual 5-1/4" drive we interfaced to it. But how about this for a means to load games: Do a board which plugs into a PC parallel port and the BPA expansion connector which has 8 K of SRAM on it. For the cassette games, someone needs to figure out out the data format which could also be downloaded into screen RAM directly by this parallel port thingy. I would be willing to contribute design time towards that end, assuming some software guru will volunteer to help. Regarding putting that on PCB, that could be done too, but probably not too cheaply. >If you want backwards compatibility, use a Bally Basic cart. It's >not like they are that rare. > >And we're going to be archiving the old tape games anyway so they >might be transferrable under a new scheme down the road. > >I do think that audio is the most flexible way to get data to a >classic console, although not on cassette anymore. I don't know why >anyone would want to keep using analog cassettes when we have PCs and >CDRWs. I don't know about the C=64 tape scheme, but the one on the >Supercharger is very robust, and quite fast when driven at full speed >by a computer's clean audio output. > >However, part of the Supercharger's tape format was dependent on the >2600's 6507 itself decoding the bitstream. So you couldn't >necessarily acheive the same performance on the Bally which probably >has slower overall throughput than the 2600. > >It's just that the built-in 4K of RAM is so restrictive that even >with ML there isn't much you are going to be able to do if all you >provide is an interface. You've got to have something to map extra >RAM in there somewhere, either a RAM cart so you can load up to 8K >chunks in there or ideally something for the expansion slot. > > >--- In ballyalley@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > > I thought it was a good idea at the time, but apparently the lack >of > > backwards compatibility is a big issue. "Never mind." I retract it. > > > > Ward Shrake > > Multicart > FAQ: > http://classicgaming.com/ar > cadia/multifaq.htm > > >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=812074/R=0/*http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=b15334 >0270003000> > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_12956119==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 12:46 AM 10/27/2001 +0000, you wrote:

The address custom chip in the arcade has a register which is written to put the system into hi-res mode.  But in order to do this, additional screen RAM must be added.  Non-technical members can read this as "I need a new PC board"

The original BPA Add-whatever (I say whatever since it changed from an add-on to an add-under to any number of add-somethings) did not have another set of address & data chips for hi-res.  The only hi-res applications of the chip set were the Midway coin-op games (Gorf, clowns, I can't remember how many were done, since I was gone to the competition by then).  The add-whatever had additional PROM, 4 or 16K of DRAM, an AMD numerical co-processor (the AMD 9511), the keyboard, built-in cassette hardware, keyboard, LEDs, and a few other odds & ends.  I've been in touch with another ex-DNAer (Larry Leske, who did the original work on the add-on but then quit to go to Zilog).  He says he thinks he may have a schematic or two of one of the add-whatevers laying around.  If so, I'll se what I can do about posting it.  I pitched my copies several years ago, along with my add-whatever and a Micropolis dual 5-1/4" drive we interfaced to it.

But how about this for a means to load games:

Do a board which plugs into a PC parallel port and the BPA expansion connector which has 8 K of SRAM on it.  For the cassette games, someone needs to figure out out the data format which could also be downloaded into screen RAM directly by this parallel port thingy.  I would be willing to contribute design time towards that end, assuming some software guru will volunteer to help.  Regarding putting that on PCB, that could be done too, but probably not too cheaply.


If you want backwards compatibility, use a Bally Basic cart.  It's
not like they are that rare.

And we're going to be archiving the old tape games anyway so they
might be transferrable under a new scheme down the road.

I do think that audio is the most flexible way to get data to a
classic console, although not on cassette anymore.  I don't know why
anyone would want to keep using analog cassettes when we have PCs and
CDRWs.  I don't know about the C=64 tape scheme, but the one on the
Supercharger is very robust, and quite fast when driven at full speed
by a computer's clean audio output.

However, part of the Supercharger's tape format was dependent on the
2600's 6507 itself decoding the bitstream.  So you couldn't
necessarily acheive the same performance on the Bally which probably
has slower overall throughput than the 2600.

It's just that the built-in 4K of RAM is so restrictive that even
with ML there isn't much you are going to be able to do if all you
provide is an interface.  You've got to have something to map extra
RAM in there somewhere, either a RAM cart so you can load up to 8K
chunks in there or ideally something for the expansion slot.


--- In ballyalley@y..., "Ward Shrake" <ward.shrake@w...> wrote:
> I thought it was a good idea at the time, but apparently the lack
of
> backwards compatibility is a big issue. "Never mind." I retract it.
>
> Ward Shrake
> Multicart FAQ:   http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm


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--=====================_12956119==_.ALT-- From lance@a... Sat Oct 27 18:22:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 28 Oct 2001 01:22:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 79007 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 01:22:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Oct 2001 01:22:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail16.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.143) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 01:22:35 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail16.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011028012235.WHDP22743.femail16.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:22:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3BDB5A0C.7090107@a...> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 21:06:20 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Ballyfaq update. References: <9rctja+lqvp@e...> <4.2.2.20011027140544.00af8e50@p...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Just updated the Kiosk section of the html faq with colour pictures. Expansion of the Computer section is still pending... :( Enjoy! Lance From cybpunks@h... Sun Oct 28 11:11:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 28 Oct 2001 19:11:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 54544 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 19:11:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Oct 2001 19:11:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.46) by mta1 with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 19:11:09 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.4.67] by n7.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2001 19:11:08 -0000 Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:11:08 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Un-original hardware thoughts Message-ID: <9rhl8c+p0v7@e...> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20011027140544.00af8e50@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 954 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 4.33.174.219 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> The address custom chip in the arcade has a register which is written to put the system into hi-res mode. But in order to do this, additional screen RAM must be added. Non-technical members can read this as "I need a new PC board" << The question then becomes, can't screen RAM be added through the expansion interface? Or more likely, can't the Bally be told to use external screenram in lieu of its onboard RAM? Maybe with a couple jumpers to provide extra addressing? The documentation I've read indicates that it can, but that you'd need some video sync circuitry. Another problem I noticed while reading the Nutting Manual is that all X coordinates are single bytes. If you did kick the Astrocade into 320x200, then the on-board OS functions would not operate properly because the hires mode extends beyond 255 pixels. The coin-op games must have been assembled with other bit-blitting routines designed with hires in mind. From fmillera@p... Sun Oct 28 11:23:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 28 Oct 2001 19:23:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 70166 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 19:23:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Oct 2001 19:23:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.51) by mta1 with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 19:23:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: fmillera@p... Received: from [10.1.4.24] by n12.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2001 19:23:07 -0000 Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:23:04 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Un-original hardware thoughts Message-ID: <9rhluo+r11g@e...> In-Reply-To: <9rhl8c+p0v7@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1720 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.199.242.98 From: "Tony Miller" X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --- In ballyalley@y..., "Glenn Saunders" wrote: > >> > The address custom chip in the arcade has a register which is written > to put the system into hi-res mode. But in order to do this, > additional screen RAM must be added. Non-technical members can read > this as "I need a new PC board" > << > > The question then becomes, can't screen RAM be added through the > expansion interface? Or more likely, can't the Bally be told to use > external screenram in lieu of its onboard RAM? Maybe with a couple > jumpers to provide extra addressing? I refer you to the quoted sentence in my posting above. The screen RAM is not connected to the expansion interface. It is on the other side of the address & data chips from the microcycler bus, which is also not connected to the expansion interface. So, please believe me, you need a new PC board, and on top of that, you need to remove the address & data chips from the BPA board. I believe most, if not all were NOT mounted in sockets. > > The documentation I've read indicates that it can, but that you'd > need some video sync circuitry. The register is available to the software, all you have to do is write it. Then the screen gets all screwed up, because the addresses operate for four times the screen RAM, which doesn't exist. > > Another problem I noticed while reading the Nutting Manual is that > all X coordinates are single bytes. > > If you did kick the Astrocade into 320x200, then the on-board OS > functions would not operate properly because the hires mode extends > beyond 255 pixels. > > The coin-op games must have been assembled with other bit-blitting > routines designed with hires in mind. Bingo From glitch@m... Sun Oct 28 14:34:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: glitch@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 28 Oct 2001 22:34:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 98954 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 22:34:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 28 Oct 2001 22:34:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 22:34:39 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: glitch@m... Received: from [10.1.10.30] by n30.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2001 22:34:21 -0000 Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 22:34:11 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Anyone know where to get bally parts? Message-ID: <9ri153+umlv@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 397 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.27.219.241 From: "Matthew Knapp" X-Yahoo-Profile: mvknapp Specifically I'm looking for a new power supply. I recently unpacked my bally again after it's been in storage for about 3 years. I have no power coming from the plug in transformer. I probably could rig up a new one from some other power supply but I would prefer to use original type parts. Does anyone know anybody that sells bally parts or has a broken bally they might wish to sell? From ballyalley@h... Sun Oct 28 15:01:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 28 Oct 2001 23:01:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 31532 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 23:01:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 28 Oct 2001 23:01:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.62) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 23:01:10 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:01:10 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 23:01:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: 1977, Bally, and 160x102 equals ... Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:01:10 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Oct 2001 23:01:10.0625 (UTC) FILETIME=[6F489D10:01C16004] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Hardware-- no, for real! These questions making the rounds on the discussion board (specifically, concerning 320x204 resolution on the Bally Astrocade) have been stirring for years. Everything discussed here absolutely needs to be said; it all needs to be aired. I want to see these questions reach a final conclusion so that the same questions do not have to be asked again and again. As to whether I’d buy a device that switches the Astrocade into a mode that no software was ever written for is questionable. If the Astrocade can do a 'hi-res' 320x204 mode, I'd like to see it. I'd like to use it too, but in the meantime, while such a device is brewing (to be or not to be), I will appreciate what the Bally can do now. That is a nice, clean, 160x102 possible resolution when programmed using machine language. Four colors can be used on-screen at once, with four more available to the screen quite easily (the much touted 256 colors onscreen at once can be done too-- even from BASIC). The Bally has four joystick/paddle ports and a keypad. Really, the Astrocade a nice game system. I'm not looking to upgrade my Astrocade: upgrading my PC is enough. If I have an itch to play or see a game with similar "hi-res" mode, then I'll use another system from a little later in the classic era. If I crave an even higher resolution, say a mind-boggling 640x480 screen, then I'll downgrade my PC's current resolution. With that said, any 8K ROM/RAM device that can emulate a cartridge, it doesn’t need to do anything else, is a gadget that I’d buy in a second. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Sun Oct 28 20:38:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 29 Oct 2001 04:38:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 63899 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 04:38:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 29 Oct 2001 04:38:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.181) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 04:38:30 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:38:30 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 04:38:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Nutting Manual v1.2 (pgs 1-11, 21-40) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:38:29 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Oct 2001 04:38:30.0079 (UTC) FILETIME=[8EF034F0:01C16033] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 2 October 28, 2001 Version 1.2 of the Nutting Manual Project has been uploaded. The file is called nutting.zip and is located at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ Progress so far: 1-11 - Done 12-20 - In Progress - Rob Mitchell 21-30 - Done, added, proofread. Thanks, Lance! 31-40 - Done, added, proofread. Thanks, Glenn! 41-50 - In progress - Lance Squire Looking for some more volunteers (see text file at above address for more details). Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Tue Oct 30 07:47:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 30 Oct 2001 15:47:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 29381 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 15:47:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Oct 2001 15:47:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.183) by mta2 with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 15:47:29 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 07:47:29 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:47:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Astrocade's Dogpatch Cowboys Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 07:47:28 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Oct 2001 15:47:29.0212 (UTC) FILETIME=[2E2397C0:01C1615A] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Astrocade's Dogpatch Cowboys I’ve been hand-disassembling the Astrocade cartridge ‘Dogpatch’ off and on for about a week now. Don’t expect a whirlwind of information coming from me, because I only understand part of what I see, but I’m learning. I’ll be compiling some motivating information that I have learned (nothing unknown, just new to me) next week. I’ve been searching for some tools to help me along, and one of them (among many) is SHOWGFX. It was created to help show the graphics in VCS games, but it works well here too. It would be very useful to be able to change the format of the output, but it works for now. Here are some of the Cowboy graphics that I’ve pulled from the ROM image. The Astrocade uses two bits to store one pixel, so even though there seems to be ‘white space’ in this-- there isn’t. The extra space you see here is used to store color information. The first cowboy is yellow and the next one is green (this is set in the color registers; you cannot tell just by looking here). More information is on the way. $0496 | X X X | ; Start of Left Cowboy (Top) $0499 | X X X X X | $049c | X X X X X X X X | $049f | X X X X | $04a2 | X X X | $04a5 | X X X X X | $04a8 | X X X X | $04ab | X X | $04ae | X X X X | $04b1 | X X X X X | $04b4 | X X X X X | $04b7 | X X | $04ba | X X X | $04bd | X X X X | $04c0 | X X X X X X X X X | $04c3 | X X X X X X X X X | $04c6 | X X X X X X X X X | $04c9 | X X X X X | $04cc | X X X X X | ; Start of Left Cowboy (Bottom) $04cf | X X X X X | $04d2 | X X X X X | $04d5 | X X X X X X X X | $04d8 | X X X X X X X X | $04db | X X X X| $04de | X X X | ; Start of Right Cowboy (Top) $04e1 | X X X X X | $04e4 | X X X X X X X X | $04e7 | X X X X | $04ea | X X X | $04ed | X X X X X | $04f0 | X X X X | $04f3 | X X | $04f6 | X X X X | $04f9 | X X X X X| $04fc | X X X X X| $04ff | X X | $0502 | X X X | $0505 | X X X X | $0508 | X X X X X X X X X | $050b | X X X X X X X X X | $050e | X X X X X X X X X | $0511 | X X X X X | $0514 | X X X X X | ; Start of Right Cowboy (Bottom) $0517 | X X X X X | $051a | X X X X X | $051d | X X X X X X X X| $0520 | X X X X X X X X| $0523 | X X X X| -- Adam Trionfo October 30, 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ward.shrake@w... Tue Oct 30 11:56:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 30 Oct 2001 19:56:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 71959 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 19:56:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 30 Oct 2001 19:56:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.46) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 19:56:37 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.132] by n7.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Oct 2001 19:56:37 -0000 Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:56:32 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Jamie Fenton's multicart Message-ID: <9rn0lg+u0ie@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 424 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.141 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan Jamie Fenton's multicart was finished up over the weekend, and mailed out to her on Monday, Oct 29th. Adam Trionfo's multicart went out on Monday as well. I have a little bit more work to do on Mike White's Bally multicart, and then I can start on the second batch of carts. Thanks again to all of you that donated money towards Jamie's cart. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From rcolbert1@h... Tue Oct 30 18:40:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rcolbert1@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 31 Oct 2001 02:40:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 12650 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 02:40:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Oct 2001 02:40:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail38.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.32) by mta1 with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 02:40:53 -0000 Received: from bob ([24.7.37.218]) by femail38.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20011031024053.DOKV25484.femail38.sdc1.sfba.home.com@b...> for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:40:53 -0800 To: Subject: I'm still alive Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 20:43:38 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <9rn0lg+u0ie@e...> From: "Bob Colbert" X-Yahoo-Profile: retroware Hi, Once again I just wanted to update everyone on my progress. I am really, really close to completing the tape remastering software. I decided to get the Atari version working first since I am so familiar with it, and I do have it working. I really had to tweak my program to handle poor quality tapes, which I have good samples of on the Atari. I still have a couple of tapes the software errors out on, but they have some really bad drop outs. I think I know how to get the software to account for it, but it is going to take a bit of coding. I might release the Atari version before I make those changes. Since the Atari version and the Bally version use the same base classes, the Bally version will be just as robust as the Atari version. I still haven't acquired an XML library yet, but will be looking. I may release a version of the Bally software that does not create XML images just so that people can start remastering the .wav files. I'm kind of limited to working on this on Fridays only right now, so hopefully I can get some quality time in Friday. Sorry to make everyone wait so long... Bob > -----Original Message----- > From: Ward Shrake [mailto:ward.shrake@w...] > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 1:57 PM > To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [ballyalley] Jamie Fenton's multicart > > > Jamie Fenton's multicart was finished up over the weekend, and mailed > out to her on Monday, Oct 29th. Adam Trionfo's multicart went out on > Monday as well. I have a little bit more work to do on Mike White's > Bally multicart, and then I can start on the second batch of carts. > > Thanks again to all of you that donated money towards Jamie's cart. > > Ward Shrake > Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm > > > > Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From cybpunks@h... Tue Oct 30 23:31:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 31 Oct 2001 07:31:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 56191 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 07:31:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 31 Oct 2001 07:31:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.50) by mta1 with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 07:31:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.2.51] by n11.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Oct 2001 07:31:41 -0000 Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 07:31:37 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: I'm still alive Message-ID: <9ro9cp+dev1@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 423 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 4.33.172.130 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> I decided to get the Atari version working first since I am so familiar with it << This is a little off-topic, but will this also support Cuttle Cart WAV creation? BTW, I still do have a couple Bally tapes kicking around which I really need to either digitize or send off to someone else who will do so. It's just that I do not have a tape deck with line out, just boom boxes, so it's been on the back-burner. From cybpunks@h... Wed Oct 31 21:31:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 1 Nov 2001 05:31:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 61172 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 05:31:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Nov 2001 05:31:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.91) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 05:31:30 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.2.101] by n13.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Nov 2001 05:28:39 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 05:31:26 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hires, final word Message-ID: <9rqmne+d6hf@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 501 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 4.33.172.130 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo The official Bally FAQ is one of the sources that apparently incorrectly mentions a reported add-under that kicked the Astrocade into hires: >> Name Comments Viper Z-Grass System A.k.a: Z-Grass 32 Z-Grass 100 Complete computer add under. Features: 64K Ram, 32K Rom, keyboard, 2 RS-232s 320x204 colour graphics, 3 channel Stereo sound, 4 channel DD 5.25 drive controller 8231 Math Processor Z-Grass programming language, C/PM compat. << There should probably be a hires part of the FAQ. From lance@a... Thu Nov 01 17:00:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 2 Nov 2001 01:00:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 44388 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2001 01:00:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 2 Nov 2001 01:00:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.35) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Nov 2001 01:00:24 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011102010023.CHIT14619.femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2001 17:00:23 -0800 Message-ID: <3BE1F06E.5040606@a...> Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 20:01:34 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley Subject: Not last word Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian "Glenn Saunders" Wrote: >The official Bally FAQ is one of the sources that apparently >incorrectly mentions a reported add-under that kicked the Astrocade >into hires: > > >Name Comments Viper Z-Grass System > >A.k.a: >Z-Grass 32 >Z-Grass 100 > Complete computer add under. Features: 64K Ram, 32K Rom, keyboard, 2 >RS-232s 320x204 colour graphics, 3 channel Stereo sound, 4 channel DD >5.25 drive controller 8231 Math Processor Z-Grass programming language, >C/PM compat. << > >There should probably be a hires part of the FAQ. > I would probably be the first to call my FAQ UNofficial. :) As to the High res mode... Arcadian Vol. 5 No.12 Page 173 Paragraph (point?) 2 "...plus 256K additional (optional for high resolution (320x204) graphics) memory." Picture of Zgrass 1200 on back. Agreed on the High res part of faq, as soon as concreate information re high res is avilable and verified. And I get the time... ;) Lance F. Squire From fmillera@p... Thu Nov 01 19:57:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 2 Nov 2001 03:57:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 20631 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2001 03:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Nov 2001 03:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.240) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Nov 2001 03:57:36 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.242.186]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GM500CLPMZWHD@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 19:57:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 19:57:30 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Not last word In-reply-to: <3BE1F06E.5040606@a...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011101192150.00a8ab78@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_3050937==_.ALT" From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_3050937==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:01 PM 11/1/2001 -0500, you wrote: >"Glenn Saunders" >Wrote: > > >The official Bally FAQ is one of the sources that apparently > >incorrectly mentions a reported add-under that kicked the Astrocade > >into hires: > > > > > >Name Comments Viper Z-Grass System > > > >A.k.a: > >Z-Grass 32 > >Z-Grass 100 > > Complete computer add under. Features: 64K Ram, 32K Rom, keyboard, 2 > >RS-232s 320x204 colour graphics, 3 channel Stereo sound, 4 channel DD > >5.25 drive controller 8231 Math Processor Z-Grass programming >language, >C/PM compat. << > > > >There should probably be a hires part of the FAQ. > > > > >I would probably be the first to call my FAQ UNofficial. :) > >As to the High res mode... > >Arcadian Vol. 5 No.12 Page 173 > >Paragraph (point?) 2 > >"...plus 256K additional (optional for high resolution (320x204) >graphics) memory." > >Picture of Zgrass 1200 on back. > >Agreed on the High res part of faq, as soon as concreate information re >high res is avilable and verified. And I get the time... ;) A quick perusal of the BPA Schematic reveals the following: 1. The screen RAM is at the extreme right side of the drawing. 2. The six bit RAM multiplexed address bus comes from the Address chip, latched by U20. The outputs of this latch DO NOT route to the expand connector, and go only to the RAMs. 3. The eight bit RAM Data In/Out bus routes to the Data chip. RAM data out is buffered onto the RAM data bus (which is bidirectional) by U23. Like the RAM Addresses, these lines DO NOT go to the expand connector. 4. RAM RAS/CS, CAS and WE also DO NOT go to the expand connector. 5. Address chip outputs RAS1, RAS2, RAS3 (pins 10,11, 12, respectively), which are used in hi-res mode GO NOWHERE All of these signals would have to connect to the expand connector if there was a possibility of the BPA running in hi-res mode. Since they do not, a reasonable conclusion would be that THE BPA WAS NOT DESIGNED TO GO INTO HIRES MODE WHEN SOMETHING IS CONNECTED TO THE EXPAND CONNECTOR. (Sorry for raising my voice). If this is not convincing enough, I can try to contact the original designer of the BPA. If the ZGRASS System was intended to be a completely different machine (not connected AT ALL to the BPA) then it could conceivably run in hires mode. Here is a short definition of the expand connector pinout: A[15:0] Z80 Address bus WR/ Z80 Write NOT. When 0, Z80 is writing HALT/ Z80 halt NOT. Stop the Z80. Don't remember if this is an input or an output BUSACK Z80 bus acknowledge. When 1, Z80 has relinquished the bus NMI/ Z80 Non-maskable interrupt input 0 = interrupt BUSREQ/ Z80 Bus request input. When 0, Z80 completes current instruction then gives up the bus WAIT/ Z80 Wait input. When 0, Z80 holds bus for another clock INT/ Z80 Interrupt. When 0, Interrupt is requested RFSH/ Z80 Refresh NOT output. Used for a cheap DRAM refresh control RESET/ RESET NOT. 0 = reset CLK System clock M1/ Z80 Machine Cycle 1 NOT. When 0, Z80 in 1st clock of opcode fetch RD/ Z80 Read NOT. When 0, Z80 is reading IORQ/ Z80 IO request NOT. When 0, Z80 accessing I/O MREQ/ Z80 Memory request NOT. When 0, Z80 accessing memory D[7:0] Z80 Data bus BUZOFF/ Input to BPA. When 0, microcycle bus to data bus driver is off. SYSEN Input to BPA. When 0, ROM decode forced off. CASEN Input to BPA. When 0, Casette decode forced off. 7 MHZ BPA output. Clock to Custom chips Px BPA output. Pixel clock Vert Dr. BPA output. Vertical Sync/blank combined Hor Dr. BPA output Horizontal Sync/blank combined Vidout Data chip video output, one side of video summing resistor. Audin Audio input of RF modulator, one side of audio summing resistor Vidin Video input of RF modulator, other side of video summing resistor. Gnd Ground. Please note again that NONE of these signals have anything to do with the Screen RAM, which should put the issue to bed. If that is not convincing enough, I can try to contact the designer and maybe his opinion will convince you. Cheers, Tony Miller >Lance F. Squire > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_3050937==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 08:01 PM 11/1/2001 -0500, you wrote:



"Glenn Saunders" <cybpunks@h...>
Wrote:

>The official Bally FAQ is one of the sources that apparently
>incorrectly mentions a reported add-under that kicked the Astrocade
>into hires:
>
>
>Name Comments Viper Z-Grass System
>
>A.k.a:
>Z-Grass 32
>Z-Grass 100
> Complete computer add under. Features: 64K Ram, 32K Rom, keyboard, 2
>RS-232s 320x204 colour graphics, 3 channel Stereo sound, 4 channel DD
>5.25 drive controller 8231 Math Processor Z-Grass programming
language, >C/PM compat. <<
>
>There should probably be a hires part of the FAQ.
>


I would probably be the first to call my FAQ UNofficial. :)

As to the High res mode...

Arcadian Vol. 5 No.12 Page 173

Paragraph (point?) 2

"...plus 256K additional (optional for high resolution (320x204)
graphics) memory."

Picture of Zgrass 1200 on back.

Agreed on the High res part of faq, as soon as concreate information re
high res is avilable and verified. And I get the time... ;)


A quick perusal of the BPA Schematic reveals the following:

1.      The screen RAM is at the extreme right side of the drawing. 
2.      The six bit RAM multiplexed address bus comes from the Address chip, latched by U20.  The outputs of this latch DO NOT route to the     expand connector, and go only to the RAMs.
3.      The eight bit RAM Data In/Out bus routes to the Data chip.  RAM data out is buffered onto the RAM data bus (which is bidirectional) by  U23.  Like the RAM Addresses, these lines DO NOT go to the expand connector.
4.      RAM RAS/CS, CAS and WE also DO NOT go to the expand connector.
5.      Address chip outputs RAS1, RAS2, RAS3 (pins 10,11, 12, respectively), which are used in hi-res mode GO NOWHERE

All of these signals would have to connect to the expand connector if there was a possibility of the BPA running in hi-res mode.  Since they do not, a reasonable conclusion would be that THE BPA WAS NOT DESIGNED TO GO INTO HIRES MODE WHEN SOMETHING IS CONNECTED TO THE EXPAND CONNECTOR.  (Sorry for raising my voice).  If this is not convincing enough, I can try to contact the original designer of the BPA.

If the ZGRASS System was intended to be a completely different machine (not connected AT ALL to the BPA) then it could conceivably run in hires mode.

Here is a short definition of the expand connector pinout:

A[15:0]         Z80 Address bus
WR/             Z80 Write NOT.  When 0, Z80 is writing
HALT/           Z80 halt NOT.  Stop the Z80.  Don't remember if this is an input or an output
BUSACK  Z80 bus acknowledge.  When 1, Z80 has relinquished the bus
NMI/            Z80 Non-maskable interrupt input 0 = interrupt
BUSREQ/ Z80 Bus request input.  When 0, Z80 completes current instruction then gives up the bus
WAIT/           Z80 Wait input.  When 0, Z80 holds bus for another clock
INT/            Z80 Interrupt.  When 0, Interrupt is requested
RFSH/   Z80 Refresh NOT output.  Used for a cheap DRAM refresh control
RESET/  RESET NOT.  0 = reset
CLK             System clock
M1/             Z80 Machine Cycle 1 NOT.  When 0, Z80 in 1st clock of opcode fetch
RD/             Z80 Read NOT. When 0, Z80 is reading
IORQ/           Z80 IO request NOT.  When 0, Z80 accessing I/O
MREQ/   Z80 Memory request NOT.  When 0, Z80 accessing memory
D[7:0]          Z80 Data bus
BUZOFF/ Input to BPA. When 0, microcycle bus to data bus driver is off.
SYSEN   Input to BPA.  When 0, ROM decode forced off.
CASEN   Input to BPA.  When 0, Casette decode forced off.
7 MHZ   BPA output. Clock to Custom chips
Px              BPA output.  Pixel clock
Vert Dr.        BPA output.  Vertical Sync/blank combined
Hor Dr. BPA output Horizontal Sync/blank combined
Vidout  Data chip video output, one side of video summing resistor.
Audin           Audio input of RF modulator, one side of audio summing resistor
Vidin           Video input of RF modulator, other side of video summing resistor.
Gnd             Ground.

Please note again that NONE of these signals have anything to do with the Screen RAM, which should put the issue to bed.  If that is not convincing enough, I can try to contact the designer and maybe his opinion will convince you.

Cheers,

Tony Miller



Lance F. Squire



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--=====================_3050937==_.ALT-- From lance@a... Thu Nov 01 21:43:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 2 Nov 2001 05:43:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 67904 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2001 05:43:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Nov 2001 05:43:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail48.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.42) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Nov 2001 05:43:21 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail48.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011102054320.JGOA13561.femail48.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2001 21:43:20 -0800 Message-ID: <3BE232C5.4000308@a...> Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 00:44:37 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Not last word References: <4.2.2.20011101192150.00a8ab78@p...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Tony Miller wrote: > At 08:01 PM 11/1/2001 -0500, you wrote: > > A quick perusal of the BPA Schematic reveals the following: > THE BPA WAS NOT DESIGNED TO GO INTO HIRES MODE WHEN SOMETHING IS CONNECTED TO THE EXPAND > CONNECTOR. (Sorry for raising my voice). If this is not convincing > enough, I can try to contact the original designer of the BPA. > > If the ZGRASS System was intended to be a completely different machine > (not connected AT ALL to the BPA) then it could conceivably run in hires > mode. > > Please note again that NONE of these signals have anything to do with > the Screen RAM, which should put the issue to bed. If that is not > convincing enough, I can try to contact the designer and maybe his > opinion will convince you. > > Cheers, > > Tony Miller > Whoa! Don?t shoot the messenger.. :) Ok! Some good SOLID info here. Wish I had a copy of those schematics! A few things are now clear to me. 1. The arcade was never designed to produce high res internally. 2. I never went through the Zgrass manual when making the site. I exclusively relied on the Arcadians. 3. Previous versions of the Add-on/under never mentioned a higher res mode. Presuming the Final specs for the Viper Zgrass unit (1200) to be correct. I dug into my Zgrass manual/literature to discover... The video memory expansion mentioned in the arcadian is actually a... High res video expansion board with memory, for the Viper Zgrass add-on/under. This I believe would indicate that it contained a separate video chip. Probably feeding into the VIDIN pin of the expansion port. Thus this unit could in-fact produce the mentioned 320x204 display. Things that I'll do to try to bring the html FAQ in line with this info is: 1. Remove High res mode from unit spec. 2. Break out Viper Zgrass from previous Zgrass units (32,100) As I was already working on an expanded Zgrass section. It's not a problem! :) I hope this makes every one happy, and we can all sleep at night. :) Lance F. Squire From ward.shrake@w... Fri Nov 02 00:31:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 2 Nov 2001 08:31:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 69435 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2001 08:31:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Nov 2001 08:31:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.51) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Nov 2001 08:31:46 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.4.24] by n1.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Nov 2001 08:31:46 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 08:31:44 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Not last word Message-ID: <9rtllg+k3cp@e...> In-Reply-To: <3BE232C5.4000308@a...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 248 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.119 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Lance F. Squire" wrote: > Wish I had a copy of those schematics! No easy way to say this, but check Adam's web site out: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/misc_docs/misc_docs.html Ward Shrake From lance@a... Fri Nov 02 04:29:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 2 Nov 2001 12:29:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 47693 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2001 12:29:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Nov 2001 12:29:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail29.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.19) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Nov 2001 12:29:03 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail29.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011102122903.QIRQ12283.femail29.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2001 04:29:03 -0800 Message-ID: <3BE291DC.5020105@a...> Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 07:30:20 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Not last word References: <9rtllg+k3cp@e...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Ward Shrake wrote: > --- In ballyalley@y..., "Lance F. Squire" wrote: > > >>Wish I had a copy of those schematics! >> > > No easy way to say this, but check Adam's web site out: > > http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/misc_docs/misc_docs.html > DOH! How did I miss that!? Lance From cybpunks@h... Fri Nov 02 14:44:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 2 Nov 2001 22:44:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 94829 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2001 22:44:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Nov 2001 22:44:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.85) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Nov 2001 22:44:27 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.110] by n35.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Nov 2001 22:44:26 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 22:44:22 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Not last word Message-ID: <9rv7k6+rjcf@e...> In-Reply-To: <3BE232C5.4000308@a...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1278 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.81 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> High res video expansion board with memory, for the Viper Zgrass add-on/under. This I believe would indicate that it contained a separate video chip. Probably feeding into the VIDIN pin of the expansion port. << That's the only conclusion one can make, I believe, that the limiting factor is the wiring of the motherboard. Very unfortunate that it was designed that way, but in 1977 even 4K was considered an extravagant amount of RAM in a console, so they probably weren't thinking long-term about video RAM expansion, although they certainly were thinking about computer expansion in general. Home computers don't do very many character per line at 160x100 ;) That would mean in order to acheive analogous hires in a modern BPA expansion slot device you'd need to build out redundant video interfacing circuitry and acquire NOS BPA video and related chips or clone them in FPGA. Under that scenario not a lot of original hardware would be operating anymore besides the Z80 and the sound chip. It would be superimposed by the external hardware. Even if you could easily remove the relevant redundant chips from a BPA to put them into an expansion slot device, it might have dire consequences to leave those portions of the motherboard unpopulated. From fmillera@p... Fri Nov 02 18:05:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 3 Nov 2001 02:05:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 63468 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2001 02:05:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Nov 2001 02:05:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2001 02:05:39 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.242.54]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GM70042CCHEOC@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 02 Nov 2001 18:05:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 18:05:37 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Not last word In-reply-to: <9rv7k6+rjcf@e...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011102180306.00abc458@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_2019353==_.ALT" References: <3BE232C5.4000308@a...> From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_2019353==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:44 PM 11/2/2001 +0000, you wrote: > >> >High res video expansion board with memory, for the Viper Zgrass >add-on/under. > >This I believe would indicate that it contained a separate video >chip. >Probably feeding into the VIDIN pin of the expansion port. ><< > >That's the only conclusion one can make, I believe, that the limiting >factor is the wiring of the motherboard. Very unfortunate that it >was designed that way, but in 1977 even 4K was considered an >extravagant amount of RAM in a console, so they probably weren't >thinking long-term about video RAM expansion, although they certainly >were thinking about computer expansion in general. They were trying to make a MSRP of $300.00. Had to cut as many corners as possible once it became apparent that all that shielding would have to be added. >Home computers >don't do very many character per line at 160x100 ;) Which is why the 3 x 5 character set was invented. >That would mean in order to acheive analogous hires in a modern BPA >expansion slot device you'd need to build out redundant video >interfacing circuitry and acquire NOS BPA video and related chips or >clone them in FPGA. Under that scenario not a lot of original >hardware would be operating anymore besides the Z80 and the sound >chip. It would be superimposed by the external hardware. > >Even if you could easily remove the relevant redundant chips from a >BPA to put them into an expansion slot device, it might have dire >consequences to leave those portions of the motherboard unpopulated. Especially since several required clocks are generated by the now-missing BPA board custom chips. Cheers, Tony Miller >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_2019353==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 10:44 PM 11/2/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>>
High res video expansion board with memory, for the Viper Zgrass
add-on/under.

This I believe would indicate that it contained a separate video
chip.
Probably feeding into the VIDIN pin of the expansion port.
<<

That's the only conclusion one can make, I believe, that the limiting
factor is the wiring of the motherboard.  Very unfortunate that it
was designed that way, but in 1977 even 4K was considered an
extravagant amount of RAM in a console, so they probably weren't
thinking long-term about video RAM expansion, although they certainly
were thinking about computer expansion in general. 


They were trying to make a MSRP of $300.00.  Had to cut as many corners as possible once it became apparent that all that shielding would have to be added.

Home computers
don't do very many character per line at 160x100 ;)


Which is why the 3 x 5 character set was invented.


That would mean in order to acheive analogous hires in a modern BPA
expansion slot device you'd need to build out redundant video
interfacing circuitry and acquire NOS BPA video and related chips or
clone them in FPGA.  Under that scenario not a lot of original
hardware would be operating anymore besides the Z80 and the sound
chip.  It would be superimposed by the external hardware.

Even if you could easily remove the relevant redundant chips from a
BPA to put them into an expansion slot device, it might have dire
consequences to leave those portions of the motherboard unpopulated.

Especially since several required clocks are generated by the now-missing BPA board custom chips.

Cheers,

Tony Miller




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--=====================_2019353==_.ALT-- From lance@a... Fri Nov 02 21:18:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 3 Nov 2001 05:18:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 2405 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2001 05:18:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Nov 2001 05:18:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail43.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.37) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2001 05:18:37 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail43.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011103051837.RRMB29728.femail43.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2001 21:18:37 -0800 Message-ID: <3BE37E79.3070309@a...> Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 00:19:53 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:Re: Not last word. Just a thought... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Tony Miller Wrote: >A quick perusal of the BPA Schematic reveals the following: > >1. The screen RAM is at the extreme right side of the drawing. >2. The six bit RAM multiplexed address bus comes from the Address >chip, latched by U20. The outputs of this latch DO NOT route to the >expand connector, and go only to the RAMs. >3. The eight bit RAM Data In/Out bus routes to the Data chip. RAM >data out is buffered onto the RAM data bus (which is bidirectional) by >U23. Like the RAM Addresses, these lines DO NOT go to the expand >connector. >4. RAM RAS/CS, CAS and WE also DO NOT go to the expand connector. >5. Address chip outputs RAS1, RAS2, RAS3 (pins 10,11, 12, >respectively), which are used in hi-res mode GO NOWHERE > Now this is just a thought, but, if these lines were brought out to an expnsion board...say by soldering a ribbon cable to the apropriate pins with a connector on the other end. Would it be possable for the Data chip (Video?) to see the memory? Lance From fmillera@p... Sat Nov 03 11:32:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 3 Nov 2001 19:32:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 67464 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2001 19:32:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Nov 2001 19:32:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.240) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2001 19:32:55 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.65]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GM800FQQOYVP2@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 03 Nov 2001 11:32:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 11:32:54 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re:Re: Not last word. Just a thought... In-reply-to: <3BE37E79.3070309@a...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011103113129.00aa3d58@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_562939==_.ALT" From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_562939==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:19 AM 11/3/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Tony Miller Wrote: > > >A quick perusal of the BPA Schematic reveals the following: > > > >1. The screen RAM is at the extreme right side of the drawing. > >2. The six bit RAM multiplexed address bus comes from the Address > >chip, latched by U20. The outputs of this latch DO NOT route to the > >expand connector, and go only to the RAMs. > >3. The eight bit RAM Data In/Out bus routes to the Data chip. >RAM >data out is buffered onto the RAM data bus (which is bidirectional) >by >U23. Like the RAM Addresses, these lines DO NOT go to the expand > >connector. > >4. RAM RAS/CS, CAS and WE also DO NOT go to the expand connector. > >5. Address chip outputs RAS1, RAS2, RAS3 (pins 10,11, 12, > >respectively), which are used in hi-res mode GO NOWHERE > > > >Now this is just a thought, but, if these lines were brought out to an >expnsion board...say by soldering a ribbon cable to the apropriate pins >with a connector on the other end. > >Would it be possable for the Data chip (Video?) to see the memory? Only if you brought out ALL the screen memory-related traces: three additional RASs, CAS, WE, 6 bits of address, 8 bits of data, and buffered all of them appropriately.\ Cheers, Tony Miller >Lance > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_562939==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 12:19 AM 11/3/2001 -0500, you wrote:
Tony Miller Wrote:

>A quick perusal of the BPA Schematic reveals the following:
>
>1.      The screen RAM is at the extreme right side of the drawing.
>2.      The six bit RAM multiplexed address bus comes from the Address
>chip, latched by U20.  The outputs of this latch DO NOT route to the
    >expand connector, and go only to the RAMs.
>3.      The eight bit RAM Data In/Out bus routes to the Data chip.
RAM >data out is buffered onto the RAM data bus (which is bidirectional)
by  >U23.  Like the RAM Addresses, these lines DO NOT go to the expand
>connector.
>4.      RAM RAS/CS, CAS and WE also DO NOT go to the expand connector.
>5.      Address chip outputs RAS1, RAS2, RAS3 (pins 10,11, 12,
>respectively), which are used in hi-res mode GO NOWHERE
>

Now this is just a thought, but, if these lines were brought out to an
expnsion board...say by soldering a ribbon cable to the apropriate pins
with a connector on the other end.

Would it be possable for the Data chip (Video?) to see the memory?

Only if you brought out ALL the screen memory-related traces:  three additional RASs, CAS, WE, 6 bits of address, 8 bits of data, and buffered all of them appropriately.\

Cheers,

Tony Miller

Lance


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--=====================_562939==_.ALT-- From fmillera@p... Mon Nov 05 20:13:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 6 Nov 2001 04:13:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 66727 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 04:13:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Nov 2001 04:13:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.59) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 04:13:43 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: fmillera@p... Received: from [10.1.10.97] by n9.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2001 04:13:42 -0000 Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 04:13:38 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:Re: Not last word. Just a thought... Message-ID: <9s7o1i+qhrb@e...> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20011103113129.00aa3d58@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1035 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.199.242.173 From: "Tony Miller" X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus Folks; The thought just struck me that it might be possible to convert a BPA to hi-res. It would take a lot of work, BUT.... If all 8 screen memory RAMs were to be removed and replaced with 16K x 1 DRAMs, you'd be most of the way there. There is still a source of 16K x 1 DRAMs, an outfit called ISIS, in Fremont, CA. I'll call them tomorrow and see if I can get a data sheet from them. But if these parts are pin-for-pin compatible (unknown at this time), you would still have to make some changes, specifically: Change VR1 from a +15 Volt regulator to a +12 Volt regulator (these parts take +/-5 and +12), and Separate the CS/ and RAS/ of each DRAM and add another chip (probably a PAL) to combine the four RAS outputs of the Address chip into a seventh address line plus RAS/ to the new screen RAM. If anyone thinks they would like to take this on, I'll see if I can come up with something. However, there would still be software changes required to invoke the hires mode. Let me know.... Cheers, Tony Miller From ward.shrake@w... Tue Nov 06 10:13:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 6 Nov 2001 18:13:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 70278 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 18:13:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Nov 2001 18:13:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.70) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 18:13:16 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.96] by n20.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2001 18:09:41 -0000 Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:11:25 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:Re: Not last word. Just a thought... Message-ID: <9s994d+6tk0@e...> In-Reply-To: <9s7o1i+qhrb@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 703 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.65.43 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Tony Miller" wrote: > The thought just struck me that it might be possible to > convert a BPA to hi-res Someone should have a nice long talk with Michael White about this subject. He claimed to me that it is not only possible, but that he has done it. He said you had to ground the "buzz off" line on the rear connector, and then hook up some screen RAM back there. (Take his word for the details, not mine, in case I'm misquoting him.) He claims that no one knows for sure what is inside the custom chips, which is how he explains getting around some technical limitations. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Tue Nov 06 11:06:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 6 Nov 2001 19:06:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 28679 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 19:06:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Nov 2001 19:06:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.46) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 19:06:53 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:06:53 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 19:06:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Getting into Hi-Res Mode-- Really! Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 11:06:53 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Nov 2001 19:06:53.0568 (UTC) FILETIME=[3257B000:01C166F6] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Getting into Hi-Res Mode-- Really! I wouldn’t have taken a second look into the Astrocade ”hi-res” subject if not for Tony Miller’s latest comments that it MIGHT be possible. This hardware trick may never happen, but if it does, then ability to program in that mode needs to be available, as he says, “there would still be software changes required to invoke the hires mode.” The DNA manual, on page 81, states “The mode of operation is determined by bit 0 of the output port 8H. It must be set to 0 for low-resolution [consumer mode] and 1 for high-resolution [commercial mode]. This bit is not set at power up and must be set by software before any RAM operations can be performed.” What software needs to be written/modified? The Astrocade must get into Commercial mode in the first place. When the Astrocade is turned on, the software in the ROM kicks it into low resolution, then it goes about its normal business. Here’s the source listing for that: 00 NOP ; Wait for things to settle down F3 DI AF XOR A D308 OUT (COMCM),A ; *** Set Consumer Mode *** C3610C JP PWRUP The third instruction in the ROM (XOR A) changes the A register to $00, no matter what it holds. When this is sent out, then the Astrocade starts in low-res. Sending $01 to Port $08 actually DOES place the Astrocade into high-res mode without extra RAM. It looks weird, but it works (I have no way to try this on an actual Astrocade, so this might be an emulator quirk). Here is how I got the Astrocade into hi-res mode with the MAME emulator. I eliminated the NOP so that I could gain a byte (this probably could not be done on an actual Astrocade). I backed the ROM image and used a hex editor to change the first three bytes of the new ROM image to: $EE $01 $F3 Here’s what the source change looks like: EE01 XOR $01 F3 DI I recommend trying this to see what it looks like, it only takes a few minutes. The problem is that the real Astrocade ROM can’t be changed like this (well, without additional trouble). If, somehow, someway, extra RAM is present for hi-res mode, then either the Astrocade’s ROM needs to be modified or a cart needs to kick the Astrocade into Commercial mode. It would be better if a cart could kick the Astrocade into Commercial mode, but would this work? Most cartridges let the Astrocade ROM take care of all startup business, but it doesn’t have to be this way. A cart can take over right after the ROM sets Consumer mode. What if it immediately output $01 to port 8? What would the affects of this be? Could it be made to work? A possible answer to this would be to write a cart-image for the Astrocade emulator that did just that. -- Adam Trionfo November 6, 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From lance@a... Tue Nov 06 18:43:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 7 Nov 2001 02:43:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 57720 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 02:43:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2001 02:43:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail42.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.36) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 02:43:45 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail42.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011107024344.XHRK15603.femail42.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 18:43:44 -0800 Message-ID: <3BE8A026.6030309@a...> Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 21:44:54 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: HTML FAQ update Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Have updated the system & Hardware pages, as per the current High res. info. Also updated the cart list with links to the apropriate coin-op on klov. You might be surprised, I was! Lance F. Squire From fmillera@p... Tue Nov 06 20:07:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 7 Nov 2001 04:07:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 33074 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 04:07:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2001 04:07:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.240) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 04:07:16 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.159]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GME00GHHWS29L@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 20:07:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 20:07:14 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re:Re: Not last word. Just a thought... In-reply-to: <9s994d+6tk0@e...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011106195934.00addec0@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_920393==_.ALT" References: <9s7o1i+qhrb@e...> From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_920393==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 06:11 PM 11/6/2001 +0000, you wrote: >--- In ballyalley@y..., "Tony Miller" wrote: > > The thought just struck me that it might be possible to > > convert a BPA to hi-res > >Someone should have a nice long talk with Michael White about this >subject. He claimed to me that it is not only possible, but that he >has done it. He said you had to ground the "buzz off" line on the >rear connector, and then hook up some screen RAM back there. (Take >his word for the details, not mine, in case I'm misquoting him.) He >claims that no one knows for sure what is inside the custom chips, >which is how he explains getting around some technical limitations. Ward; Please forgive me for disagreeing. I am the person who named the signal 'Buzoff', so I feel I speak with some authority. This signal was added at my request in order to make it possible for circuitry on the expansion connector to drive data back to the Z80 (i.e., a read from the external address space). All this signal does is to turn off the bidirectional bus driver which connects the Z80 data bus to the microcycle bus, used to multiplex address/data to/from the custom chips. The microcycle bus itself was implemented to reduce the pinout which would otherwise be required of the custom chips for address/data functions, which would otherwise require 32 pins (16 address, 8 data) instead of the 8 actually used. If you have been following my recent posts, there is no way that adding memory to the expansion connector will increase screen resolution, unless you duplicate the address and data chips out there or physically move them out there. Cheers, Tony Miller >Ward Shrake >Multicart >FAQ: >http://classicgaming.com/arc >adia/multifaq.htm > > > > > > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_920393==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 06:11 PM 11/6/2001 +0000, you wrote:
--- In ballyalley@y..., "Tony Miller" <fmillera@p...> wrote:
> The thought just struck me that it might be possible to
> convert a BPA to hi-res

Someone should have a nice long talk with Michael White about this
subject. He claimed to me that it is not only possible, but that he
has done it. He said you had to ground the "buzz off" line on the
rear connector, and then hook up some screen RAM back there. (Take
his word for the details, not mine, in case I'm misquoting him.) He
claims that no one knows for sure what is inside the custom chips,
which is how he explains getting around some technical limitations.


Ward;

Please forgive me for disagreeing.  I am the person who named the signal 'Buzoff', so I feel I speak with some authority.  This signal was added at my request in order to make it possible for circuitry on the expansion connector to drive data back to the Z80 (i.e., a read from the external address space).  All this signal does is to turn off the bidirectional bus driver which connects the Z80 data bus to the microcycle bus, used to multiplex address/data to/from the custom chips.  The microcycle bus itself was implemented to reduce the pinout which would otherwise be required of the custom chips for address/data functions, which would otherwise require 32 pins (16 address, 8 data) instead of the 8 actually used.

If you have been following my recent posts, there is no way that adding memory to the expansion connector will increase screen resolution, unless you duplicate the address and data chips out there or physically move them out there.

Cheers,

Tony Miller


Ward Shrake
Multicart FAQ:   http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm






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--=====================_920393==_.ALT-- From fmillera@p... Tue Nov 06 20:19:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 7 Nov 2001 04:19:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 3757 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 04:19:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2001 04:19:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 04:19:32 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.159]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GME00K4DXCJL6@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 20:19:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 20:19:32 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Getting into Hi-Res Mode-- Really! In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011106200732.00aa6ee8@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus At 11:06 AM 11/6/2001 -0800, you wrote: >Getting into Hi-Res Mode-- Really! > > >I wouldn't have taken a second look into the Astrocade "hi-res" subject if >not for Tony Miller's latest comments that it MIGHT be possible. This >hardware trick may never happen, but if it does, then ability to program in >that mode needs to be available, as he says, "there would still be software >changes required to invoke the hires mode." Group; Upon further investigation, this modification would be possible, but highly unlikely. The reason is that the 16 K x 1 DRAMs required have been obsolete for years. For that matter, the RAMs which are in the BPA now (4K x 1) have been obsolete for a longer period of time. I did a search on ICMASTER.com for 16K x 1 DRAMs, and found an outfit by the name of ISIS who claimed to have them. I called them earlier today, and found out that they do indeed have them, but only in MIL-spec flatpacks, which are not the same package originally used. Another way of saying MIL-spec is 'prohibitively expensive'. So unless someone comes up with a reasonable number of these parts in DIP packages, forget it. If I remember correctly, the 4K x 1 DRAM originally used in the BPA was the first DRAM to actually use the now-universal RAS/CAS addressing scheme for DRAMs. Since DRAM tends to quadruple in capacity and halve incost over time, the next development was the 16 K x 1 DRAM. I used the latter part in the design of the ADD-whatever for the BPA. A board connecting to the expansion connector using 'transplanted' custom chips in hires mode would still be a possibility. This would have to be based on a current DRAM memory, 128K x 8 or bigger. The extra RAM space would either be paged in by separate hardware, or p*ssed away. Cheers, Tony Miller From fmillera@p... Tue Nov 06 20:35:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 7 Nov 2001 04:35:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 13411 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 04:35:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2001 04:35:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 04:35:00 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.159]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GME00I6BY2AHR@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 20:35:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 20:34:58 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] HTML FAQ update In-reply-to: <3BE8A026.6030309@a...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011106203434.00ac7a50@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_2584836==_.ALT" From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_2584836==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:44 PM 11/6/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Have updated the system & Hardware pages, as per the current High res. info. Where might this be found? Cheers, Tony Miller >Also updated the cart list with links to the apropriate coin-op on klov. >You might be surprised, I was! > >Lance F. Squire > > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_2584836==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 09:44 PM 11/6/2001 -0500, you wrote:
Have updated the system & Hardware pages, as per the current High res. info.


Where might this be found?

Cheers,
Tony Miller


Also updated the cart list with links to the apropriate coin-op on klov.
You might be surprised, I was!

Lance F. Squire


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--=====================_2584836==_.ALT-- From ballyalley@h... Tue Nov 06 20:36:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 7 Nov 2001 04:36:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 13408 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 04:36:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2001 04:36:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.211) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 04:36:05 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 20:36:05 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 04:36:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Hi-res, the subject that never dies Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 20:36:04 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Nov 2001 04:36:05.0208 (UTC) FILETIME=[B64E6580:01C16745] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Tony Miller writes: >> there is no way that adding memory to the expansion connector will increase screen resolution, unless you duplicate the address and data chips out there or physically move them out there. >> I’ve been following your posts and have also been in contact with Michael recently. Ward states in his posting that he might be remembering it wrong, and he did fudge it up a little, but not much. Here’s the story (as we know it-- don’t kill the messenger). Michael has the R&L 64K RAM board, which can turn off the internal RAM and use external RAM as screen RAM. The internal (screen RAM) can be shut off so that only external RAM is used. The board does allow this, but it DOES NOT go into hi-res mode, nor does low-res actually work properly this way. James Krych concurs, “[A few months back] when Mike White and I played with having expansion RAM in the screen RAM area, it did work "sorta kinda". Some carts didn't like it at all, or collision detection was lost. Has to do with the MAGIC RAM features of the Astrocade.” The rumor has been around for so long that the Astrocade could go into hi-res mode with just the right upgrade that most people just can’t let go of the idea. Tony is obviously the authority on this subject, but I’m sure that this matter will never be settled. If someone out there puts the effort into making a hi-res upgrade, knowing all the somersaults that need to be gone through, then it needs to be noted that it is not an upgrade, but a replacement (I think). Would it be neat? Sure. Would it be a unique item? Probably. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Tue Nov 06 20:48:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 7 Nov 2001 04:48:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 89788 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 04:48:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2001 04:48:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.207) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 04:48:56 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 20:48:56 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 04:48:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Emulation RAM updates Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 20:48:56 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Nov 2001 04:48:56.0418 (UTC) FILETIME=[81FBB420:01C16747] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo James Krych wrote me a personal email that says, in part: >> The trick is to first have the emulator have memory that continues on from H5000 on to H7FFF, as the commercial mode needs 16K for high-res. >> Even ignoring hi-res mode, emulated extra RAM would be useful, considering some carts require it, and more than a handful of tapes do too (though I don’t have those). I know that at least three people have the ability to make such change- are you listening? Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From lance@a... Tue Nov 06 20:56:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 7 Nov 2001 04:56:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 40591 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 04:56:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2001 04:56:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail34.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.24) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 04:56:06 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail34.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011107045605.BPVK10991.femail34.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 20:56:05 -0800 Message-ID: <3BE8BF22.1020009@a...> Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 23:57:06 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] HTML FAQ update References: <4.2.2.20011106203434.00ac7a50@p...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Tony Miller wrote: > At 09:44 PM 11/6/2001 -0500, you wrote: > > > > Where might this be found? > Sorry, For those new here the link is: http://www.alteeve.com/~lance/Ballyfaq.html I should have included it anyway. The computer expansion page is still being worked on. Lance From ballyalley@h... Wed Nov 07 10:11:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 7 Nov 2001 18:11:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 40109 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 18:11:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2001 18:11:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.88) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 18:11:20 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:11:20 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 18:11:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: DNA page 46 question Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 10:11:20 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Nov 2001 18:11:20.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[9A269360:01C167B7] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Lance, On page 46 of the DNA manual, in the last paragraph, I just can't seem to figure a bit of proofing out, and it is really annoying me. Here is what you typed [this is exactly as the manual reads]: >> Description: This routine sets color registers and saves address of colors for use by PIZBRK and BLAKOUT for color restoration. >> 'BLAKOUT' is bugging me. I've gone through the DNA manual, the source, the reference pages, the macros, the equates, and can find no mention of 'BLAKOUT'? First off, it's seven letters when six in the limit. I thought that it might be a typo in the original (it would not be the first-- maybe PLAKOUT, or BLCKOUT, or whatever). I've searched for similar words, but I can not find anything close to this in the manual. Any ideas? The reason that this is bothering me so much is I depend on this manual when I am proofing. Quite a few of the words so far that are under the "Do Not Reproduce" jargon turn out to be different from what any of us typing this in thought. This comes out when proofing. I use all of the above methods and I have always found the correct word. This is stumping me. Anyhow, asking you has helped clear my head. If you don't have any suggestions, then I'll go ahead and mark page 46 with a 'note' and be done with it. Ah, well. Excellent ASCII tables by the way. Now, if only you used the space bar instead of the tab key... [wink] Any headway with your Astrocade programming? Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Wed Nov 07 10:26:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 7 Nov 2001 18:26:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 48712 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 18:26:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2001 18:26:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.50) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 18:26:02 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:26:02 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 18:26:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: On DNA Manual proofing Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 10:26:02 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Nov 2001 18:26:02.0759 (UTC) FILETIME=[A7F5A970:01C167B9] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo The last message, on proofing, was meant for Lance since he typed page 46 of the manual. However, I'm open to any ideas on 'BLAKOUT.' Also, I was only half-joking with Lance about using Spaces instead of Tabs. It is possible (and common) to open a ‘nicely’ formatted ASCII text from the Internet that looks just fine on the creator’s computer, but is very badly formatted on your own computer. This sometimes has to do with page width and often not using a proportional font, but Tabs are often the culprit too. I really do try to eliminate all of Tabs from most text documents when proofing. I do this for my own sanity, and that of others. BTW- I don’t care if you use the Tab character when you help type the DNA manual. I can convert the Tabs to spaces quickly. So, if you love the Tab key and want to help us type a few pages, then just say so. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Wed Nov 07 12:51:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 7 Nov 2001 20:51:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 10382 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 20:51:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2001 20:51:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.56) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 20:51:37 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 12:51:37 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 20:51:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 3 Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 12:51:36 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Nov 2001 20:51:37.0215 (UTC) FILETIME=[FE19E0F0:01C167CD] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 3 November 7, 2001 Version 1.3 of the Nutting Manual Project has been completed (index, 1-11, 21-50, misc.). The file is called nutting.zip and is located at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ IMPORTANT: There are currently NO newly assigned volunteers. -- We need help. See text file at above address for more details for. Progress so far: 1-11 - Done 12-20 - In Progress - Rob Mitchell 21-30 - Done, added, proofread. Thanks, Lance! 31-40 - Done, added, proofread. Thanks, Glenn! 41-50 - Done, added, proofread. Thanks, Lance! 51-60 - NOT ASSIGNED - Please volunteer Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From lance@a... Wed Nov 07 19:20:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 8 Nov 2001 03:20:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 17605 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 03:20:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Nov 2001 03:20:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail42.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.36) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 03:20:11 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail42.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011108032010.FCUG12838.femail42.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 19:20:10 -0800 Message-ID: <3BE9FA2F.6000604@a...> Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 22:21:19 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: DNA PAGE 46 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Adam Trionfo Wrote: >Lance, > >On page 46 of the DNA manual, in the last paragraph, I just can't seem >to figure a bit of proofing out, and it is really annoying me. Here is >what you typed [this is exactly as the manual reads]: > >>> > >Description: >This routine sets color registers and saves address of colors for >use by PIZBRK and BLAKOUT for color restoration. > >>> > >'BLAKOUT' is bugging me. I've gone through the DNA manual, the source, >the reference pages, the macros, the equates, and can find no mention >of 'BLAKOUT'? First off, it's seven letters when six in the limit. I >thought that it might be a typo in the original (it would not be the >first-- maybe PLAKOUT, or BLCKOUT, or whatever). I've searched for >similar words, but I can not find anything close to this in the manual. >Any ideas? > >The reason that this is bothering me so much is I depend on this manual >when I am proofing. Quite a few of the words so far that are under the >"Do Not Reproduce" jargon turn out to be different from what any of us >typing this >in thought. This comes out when proofing. I use all of the above >methods and I have always found the correct word. This is stumping me. > >Anyhow, asking you has helped clear my head. If you don't have any >suggestions, then I'll go ahead and mark page 46 with a 'note' and be >done with it. Ah, well. > I'm really the wrong person to ask, as I'm figuring it out, just as you are... ;) However, I beleave it relates to a function of SENTRY (Page 50). You will notice it describes the 'Blackout' feature. (To prevent burn in) I think 'BLAKOUT' is the assembly label for the 'Blackout' feature. >Excellent ASCII tables by the way. Now, if only you used the space bar >instead of the tab key... [wink] > Sorry, I usually use tab as that's what's usually used to seperate assembly columns. However it has long been argued wether tab is every 4 or 8 positions. Even MS can't decide...(Dos vs word) >Any headway with your Astrocade programming? > Have the graphics for the man & robots on paper, some converted to values. Mostly learning the system & doing experiments. When the system dosen't crash from cart jiggle. :( From fmillera@p... Thu Nov 08 18:36:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 9 Nov 2001 02:36:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 91073 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 02:36:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Nov 2001 02:36:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 02:36:19 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.242.135]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GMI004H8HWIHQ@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:36:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:36:17 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Hi-res, the subject that never dies In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011108181803.00a8e998@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus At 08:36 PM 11/6/2001 -0800, you wrote: >Tony Miller writes: > >> >there is no way that adding memory to the expansion connector will increase >screen resolution, unless you duplicate the address and data chips out there >or physically move them out there. > >> > >I've been following your posts and have also been in contact with Michael >recently. Ward states in his posting that he might be remembering it wrong, >and he did fudge it up a little, but not much. Here's the story (as we know >it-- don't kill the messenger). > >Michael has the R&L 64K RAM board, which can turn off the internal RAM and >use external RAM as screen RAM. The internal (screen RAM) can be shut off >so that only external RAM is used. The board does allow this, but it DOES >NOT go into hi-res mode, nor does low-res actually work properly this way. > >James Krych concurs, "[A few months back] when Mike White and I played with >having expansion RAM in the screen RAM area, it did work "sorta kinda". >Some carts didn't like it at all, or collision detection was lost. Has to >do with the MAGIC RAM features of the Astrocade." > >The rumor has been around for so long that the Astrocade could go into >hi-res mode with just the right upgrade that most people just can't let go >of the idea. Tony is obviously the authority on this subject, but I'm sure >that this matter will never be settled. > >If someone out there puts the effort into making a hi-res upgrade, knowing >all the somersaults that need to be gone through, then it needs to be noted >that it is not an upgrade, but a replacement (I think). Would it be neat? >Sure. Would it be a unique item? Probably. I really want to put this 'urban legend' to rest once and for all, so I guess what I'll do is to write up an article about how the BPA REALLY works (from a hardware perspective) This will include references to the appropriate pages of the Nutting manual, etc. (so I hope that the re-done version of the Nutting manual uses the same page numbers) Above you mention using expansion RAM as screen RAM, and I can say categorically that it ain't so on the original BPA. If the Astrocade version has a different PC board inside, then maybe so. But there is no way screen refresh data can get into the data chip except from the MD[7:0] pins, which are connected to the on-board screen RAM. For those of us whose mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts, try this experiment: Hook up the expansion RAM gizmo. Lift one end of BPA R37 and see what happens when running any game. If the legend is correct, there will be real video (characters, etc.) If I am correct, the most you'll see is a border. I'll try to get the article together in the next week or so. Tony Miller >Adam Trionfo > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ballyalley@h... Thu Nov 08 22:29:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 9 Nov 2001 06:29:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 38140 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 06:29:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Nov 2001 06:29:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.139) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 06:29:15 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 22:29:15 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 06:29:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Laying epansion memory legends to rest Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 22:29:15 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2001 06:29:15.0799 (UTC) FILETIME=[DAA3DA70:01C168E7] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >> [what] I'll do is to write up an article about how the BPA REALLY works (from a hardware perspective) This will include references to the appropriate pages of the Nutting manual, etc. >> I hope that Tony can dispel urban legends. This will help all those hardware folks, but not me-- I can promise that I will not understand any of it Don't forget to cover the 'Grassy knoll' angle of Bally memory expansion (I've notice this is often overlooked). >> I hope that the re-done version of the Nutting manual uses the same page numbers >> Yes, the text version will be this way. I am not sure how Glenn is going to html-ize the document. >> For those of us whose mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts, try this experiment: Hook up the expansion RAM gizmo. Lift one end of BPA R37 and see what happens when running any game. If the legend is correct, there will be real video (characters, etc.) If I am correct, the most you'll see is a border. >> I'm going to snail mail this info to Michael. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Mon Nov 12 16:49:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 13 Nov 2001 00:49:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 43165 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2001 00:49:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Nov 2001 00:49:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.78) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Nov 2001 00:49:07 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:49:07 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 00:49:06 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Type Nutting Manual; Get Carts Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:49:06 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Nov 2001 00:49:07.0261 (UTC) FILETIME=[FFDB16D0:01C16BDC] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo If I offer rare carts, they will come? Hmm. To make this Nutting manual text conversion project go a little faster, I thought I might be able to entice some folks with ‘free’ carts. I have various cartridges for different systems (some are rarer than others). None of these are my doubles, but I’m willing to trade some of these for people’s helpful fingers. If no one nibbles on these than I MAY make more available. How do ya get’em? Type man, type! And Fast! The list of carts is below. After each cart is a number. Type that amount of pages and I’ll send you the cart you requested BEFORE you began typing. I expect neatly formatted pages (no tabs, please). Use the pages that have been typed already as an example. Some of these large numbers (Q*bert’s Qubes) require diligence and speed. Don’t start typing until you’ve contacted me (this will avoid typing pages twice). Only one person can work toward a cart (this isn’t a speed contest). To make this easier, I will post a short message to the group saying, “X is working for Y cart.” Here’s why you have to be fast. You need to send me twenty pages a week. Each cart says this explicitly, to be clear. (Those who have already typed pages, would you hold it against me if you can’t use those pages against these carts?) 5200 Gyruss - 20 Pages (1 week) Astrocade AstroBASIC (2000 baud version) - 20 Pages (1 week) Colecovision Flipper Slipper - 30 Pages (2 weeks) Q*bert’s Qubes - 50 Pages (hey, it’s rare AND fun!) (3 weeks) Star Wars, The Arcade Game - 20 Pages (1 week) Odyssey 2 Conquest of the World (New, not shrink-wrapped) - 30 pages (2 weeks) Very short list. I’m curious to see how this goes over. If it flows, then that’s the last list... Didn’t see anything interesting? Maybe you will soon (or you could volunteer for ten pages- that’s always an option). Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Mon Nov 12 21:08:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 13 Nov 2001 05:08:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 93524 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2001 05:08:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Nov 2001 05:08:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.11) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Nov 2001 05:08:12 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 21:08:12 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 05:08:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Nutting Assignments (51-70) Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 21:08:12 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Nov 2001 05:08:12.0853 (UTC) FILETIME=[31C02E50:01C16C01] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo November 13, 2001 New assigned pages for the Nutting Manual Text conversion project. It would be nice to see some fresh blood here. ‘Nutting manual’ assignments 51-60 - In Progress - Adam Trionfo 61-70 - In Progress - Lance Squire 71-143 - Unassigned... you could get a rare cart [bribe, bribe]... Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From king_asmo@y... Tue Nov 13 10:07:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: king_asmo@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 13 Nov 2001 18:07:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 59888 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2001 18:07:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Nov 2001 18:07:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.76) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Nov 2001 18:07:20 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: king_asmo@y... Received: from [10.1.10.107] by n26.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Nov 2001 18:05:47 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 18:07:15 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Type Nutting Manual; Get Carts Message-ID: <9srngj+pqc1@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 150 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.112.158.247 From: king_asmo@y... X-Yahoo-Profile: king_asmo I'd be interested in the CV Flipper Slipper.. what would you like me to do, and where are the examples of what has already been done? Thanks, Mike From ballyalley@h... Tue Nov 13 16:25:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 14 Nov 2001 00:25:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 21657 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2001 00:25:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Nov 2001 00:25:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.20) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2001 00:25:46 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:25:45 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:25:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Working toward Flipper Slipper Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:25:45 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2001 00:25:45.0996 (UTC) FILETIME=[E70CC4C0:01C16CA2] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >> I'd be interested in the CV Flipper Slipper.. what would you like me to do, and where are the examples of what has already been done? >> Mike, You need the second part of the PDF file to type pages 71-100. http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/misc_docs/nutting_manual_(69-102).pdf Check your work against Nutting.zip. Download it here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ Working for Flipper Slipper gives you two weeks to finish the thirty pages (I need 20 pages after a week though, this way I am not hammered with proofreading and updating the project all at once). Note that pages 83, 84, 86 and page 87 will require some nice ASCII layouts. If your stumped here maybe you can pawn some off to other discussion group members. Your decision. Any other questions can be answered in recent postings. If your going to do this, then I need a private email contact (ballyalley$$$@h... remove the three dollar sign spam email blocker) so that I can make this “official.” Thanks. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ward.shrake@w... Tue Nov 13 18:33:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 14 Nov 2001 02:33:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 69975 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2001 02:33:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Nov 2001 02:33:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.73) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2001 02:33:00 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.32] by n23.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Nov 2001 02:32:52 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 02:32:46 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Laying epansion memory legends to rest Message-ID: <9ssl4e+r6pg@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 214 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.28 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan For the record, I'll bow to Tony's wisdom. I just threw my two cents in, and apparently intelligent thoughts cost a nickel or more. ;-) Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Tue Nov 13 18:46:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 14 Nov 2001 02:46:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 60305 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2001 02:46:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Nov 2001 02:46:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.75) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2001 02:46:10 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.134] by n25.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Nov 2001 02:44:58 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 02:43:11 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: ROM images Message-ID: <9sslnv+qp8c@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1044 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.28 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan Bad news: The multicart project has recently turned up a few ROM images that seem to be bad dumps. (My fault, and probably due to trying to do too many things too quickly during semi-rushed gamers meetings.) Good news: Michael White has looked over my multicart's ROMs, identified any bad ones, and is currently sending me good dumps of the offending carts. (Or cart hybrids, as the case may be.) Mainly BASIC games, I heard? The stage of development for all things Astrocade is still pretty much in its infancy, so some teething problems were inevitable? The greater bulk of the ROMs are fine but I want to be extra paranoid, and have things as perfect as possible as soon as possible. I'd rather fix anything known to be "bad" now, than to wait for zillions of cool emulator improvements, etc. At some point, no one will want to re-download the corrected ROM images as replacements. Besides, I want to be able to play as many cool old games as I can! Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From fmillera@p... Tue Nov 13 18:52:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 14 Nov 2001 02:52:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 50058 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2001 02:52:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Nov 2001 02:52:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.240) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2001 02:52:03 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.240.147]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GMR00KRYRYP10@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 18:52:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 18:51:59 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Laying epansion memory legends to rest In-reply-to: <9ssl4e+r6pg@e...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011113185118.00aa5be8@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_668250==_.ALT" References: From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_668250==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:32 AM 11/14/2001 +0000, you wrote: >For the record, I'll bow to Tony's wisdom. I just threw my two cents >in, and apparently intelligent thoughts cost a nickel or more. ;-) Finally! A man who is willing to listen to reason. Cheers, Tony Miller >Ward Shrake >Multicart >FAQ: >http://classicgaming.com/arc >adia/multifaq.htm > > >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=812075/R=0/*http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=b17834 >9800057000> > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_668250==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 02:32 AM 11/14/2001 +0000, you wrote:
For the record, I'll bow to Tony's wisdom. I just threw my two cents
in, and apparently intelligent thoughts cost a nickel or more.  ;-)

Finally!  A man who is willing to listen to reason.

Cheers,

Tony Miller

Ward Shrake
Multicart FAQ:   http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm


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--=====================_668250==_.ALT-- From cybpunks@h... Wed Nov 14 22:40:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 15 Nov 2001 06:40:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 74533 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2001 06:40:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2001 06:40:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.78) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2001 06:40:28 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.93] by n28.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Nov 2001 06:40:28 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 06:40:21 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:Re: Not last word. Just a thought... Message-ID: <9svo0l+rk9d@e...> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20011106195934.00addec0@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 341 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 4.33.172.52 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> Please forgive me for disagreeing. I am the person who named the signal 'Buzoff', so I feel I speak with some authority. << It should be mentioned that the history of consoles is full of examples where people managed to get them to do things the original designers never thought possible. For instance, RAM on 2600 cartridges. From cybpunks@h... Wed Nov 14 22:42:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 15 Nov 2001 06:42:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 57856 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2001 06:42:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2001 06:42:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.81) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2001 06:42:35 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.95] by n31.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Nov 2001 06:42:35 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 06:42:32 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Getting into Hi-Res Mode-- Really! Message-ID: <9svo4o+eahk@e...> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20011106200732.00aa6ee8@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 260 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 4.33.172.52 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo << The reason is that the 16 K x 1 DRAMs required have been obsolete for years. << Used RAM chips I'm sure can be obtained from coinop circles. Old arcade game collectors often have to replace obsolete components, and manage to do so quite successfully. From cybpunks@h... Wed Nov 14 22:53:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 15 Nov 2001 06:53:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 91258 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2001 06:53:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2001 06:53:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.63) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2001 06:53:15 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.124] by n13.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Nov 2001 06:48:25 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 06:53:13 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Nutting Assignments Message-ID: <9svoop+79js@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 327 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 4.33.172.52 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo 71-143 - Unassigned... you could get a rare cart [bribe, bribe]... I'm ready to take on another chunk. Give me a 20 page chunk since I type faster than most. No free cart necessary. I already typed in most of a chunk that someone else wound up doing out of over-eagerness so I'll wait for an official slot this time. From cybpunks@h... Wed Nov 14 23:04:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 15 Nov 2001 07:04:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 87068 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2001 07:04:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2001 07:04:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.58) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2001 07:04:06 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.96] by n8.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Nov 2001 07:04:05 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 07:04:01 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Game ideas Message-ID: <9svpd1+ptq3@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1046 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 4.33.172.52 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo I can't remember whether I posted this already, but here goes... For those who are wondering what might make a good homebrew on the Astrocade, here are my opinions... The biggest advantage of the Astrocade is its controllers. It's got 4, which is fairly unique, but even moreso is the combination paddle- joystick. There were some arcade games that used a combination spinner/joystick. Bally Midway's Tron and Discs of Tron come to mind. It can really open up some unique game designs. I don't think this feature was very well utilized in the Bally catalog, unfortunately. So if I ever get around to doing an Astrocade game, it will emphasize multiplayer and the paddle-joystick control action. Besides the obvious rotating turret or rotating arm ala Tron, you could control two sprites at once, which can lead to some very frantic gaming. Like you could to a Warlords type game where you can both defend your castle with the paddle and lay siege with little Berzerk type guys who shoot arrows at eachother in 8-directions. From ballyalley@h... Thu Nov 15 06:08:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 15 Nov 2001 14:08:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 1331 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2001 14:08:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2001 14:08:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.207) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2001 14:08:57 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 06:08:57 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:08:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Game ideas Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 06:08:56 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Nov 2001 14:08:57.0185 (UTC) FILETIME=[10E7DD10:01C16DDF] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo The Astrocade’s built-in games show many of the functions that the unit is capable of. Calculator uses the keypad, Checkmate all four joysticks, and Gunfight and Scribbling use the paddle-joystick feature. These programs use the features in a non-gimmick manner. I’ve never cared for Tron (blasphemy!), but Glenn’s Worlord update is a good idea. Don’t forget, completely original ideas work too (for instance, Super-Pacman, Pac-Mania, Ms. Pac-Man., or Pac-Man Junior). You get the idea; something that has not been done before in any way. Many games are improved in a multi-player mode, but this mode usually requires that one player can snuff out the other, even in a cooperative game like The Incredible Wizard. That’s part of the fun of it. Sorta? Lastly, has Worlords ever had an update for any system at any time in any manner (shareware or not)? I’d like to check out any sequel- I used to play Worlords for hours at a time until no one would play with me anymore (i.e. “Nah, let’s play something else”). Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Thu Nov 15 06:22:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 15 Nov 2001 14:22:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 56644 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2001 14:22:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2001 14:22:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.228) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2001 14:22:53 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 06:22:53 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:22:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Nutting Assignments Update (101-120) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 06:22:53 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Nov 2001 14:22:53.0730 (UTC) FILETIME=[03868020:01C16DE1] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo November 15, 2001 New assigned pages for the Nutting Manual Text Conversion Project. Glenn Saunders - pages 101-120 Have not heard back from Rob - Your email is being return to me... Mike - If you want the Flipper Slipper cart, I need a firm yes. Complete current ‘Nutting manual’ assignments 12-20 - In Progress - Rob Mitchell 51-60 - In Progress - Adam Trionfo 61-70 - In Progress - Lance Squire 71-100 - A nibble on a cart-- but not quite assigned to Mike yet 101-120 - Glenn Saunders 121-143 - Unassigned... you could get a rare cart [bribe, bribe]... Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From cybpunks@h... Thu Nov 15 15:33:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 15 Nov 2001 23:33:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 59823 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2001 23:33:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2001 23:33:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.76) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2001 23:33:54 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.67] by n26.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Nov 2001 23:32:02 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:33:48 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Game ideas Message-ID: <9t1jcs+6as9@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 595 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.77 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> The Astrocade's built-in games show many of the functions that the unit is capable of. Calculator uses the keypad, Checkmate all four joysticks, and Gunfight and Scribbling use the paddle-joystick feature. These programs use the features in a non-gimmick manner. << Yeah, but these were first-gen titles. Technically, Combat and Video Olympics used all of the 2600's hardware features (sprite cloning, all 5 objects in play at once, paddles, joysticks, sprite width register), but it wasn't until things like Space Invaders that some of them were used in a more dramatic way. From cybpunks@h... Thu Nov 15 15:58:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 15 Nov 2001 23:58:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 14923 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2001 23:58:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2001 23:58:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.53) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2001 23:58:25 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.4.24] by n3.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Nov 2001 23:58:25 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:58:18 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Hi-res, the subject that never dies Message-ID: <9t1kqq+4dt5@e...> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20011108181803.00a8e998@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1817 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.77 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo Here is a theoretical question about hires.. (hey, it's fun to discuss, why get upset about it?) A typical way to upgrade memory on 8-bit machines is via piggybacking, you solder the pins of a ram chip on top of the legs of the chip underneath it. If you were to stack 3 levels of RAM chips on top of the 4K on board would it be possible to run jumpers to the appropriate pins in order to enable hires? What Tony said, I think, was that the graphics chips don't even have enough pins exposed to be able to address more than 4K, is that correct? Assuming that's the case, how does memory map to the screen when the PBA is in hires mode? If the existing 4K would map to the top 1/4th of the screen, would it be possible to bank-switch during screen draw and tell the BPA to keep reading the same 4K address area 4 times? The bankswitch would have to be nearly instantaneous in order to avoid a video glitch. I'm thinking that the bank switch would occur in a similar fashion to the color-register-change-per-scanline capability. Conceptually speaking, this is how the Atari 2600 works, but it would work on a chunk of the screen at once rather than just one scanline at a time as the VCS does. It would be hard for the Z80 to update graphics this way to be sure, since in order for the Z80 to see the bank, that bank needs to be actively selected (i.e. being drawn) (other than during overscan/vblank) but I was just wondering if that would be possible. And assuming you didn't have a memory expansion, would it be possible, through some sort of DMA off the PBA, for an expansion device to copy memory fast enough from external to internal screen ram during horizontal blank every 1/4 screen and then redirect the BPA's screen RAM pointer to keep rereading the same 4K? Probably not. From fmillera@p... Thu Nov 15 17:12:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 16 Nov 2001 01:11:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 21055 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2001 01:11:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Nov 2001 01:11:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.240) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2001 01:11:58 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.210]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GMV006AKCNWC1@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:11:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:11:55 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re:Re: Not last word. Just a thought... In-reply-to: <9svo0l+rk9d@e...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011115171117.00ab4010@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_564852==_.ALT" References: <4.2.2.20011106195934.00addec0@p...> From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_564852==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 06:40 AM 11/15/2001 +0000, you wrote: > >> >Please forgive me for disagreeing. I am the person who named the >signal 'Buzoff', so I feel I speak with some authority. ><< > >It should be mentioned that the history of consoles is full of >examples where people managed to get them to do things the original >designers never thought possible. For instance, RAM on 2600 >cartridges. Yes, true. But violating certain laws of physics is generally not possible. >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_564852==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 06:40 AM 11/15/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>>
Please forgive me for disagreeing.  I am the person who named the
signal 'Buzoff', so I feel I speak with some authority.
<<

It should be mentioned that the history of consoles is full of
examples where people managed to get them to do things the original
designers never thought possible.  For instance, RAM on 2600
cartridges.

Yes, true.  But violating certain laws of physics is generally not possible.






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--=====================_564852==_.ALT-- From fmillera@p... Thu Nov 15 17:12:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 16 Nov 2001 01:12:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 82148 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2001 01:12:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Nov 2001 01:12:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.240) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2001 01:12:51 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.210]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GMV005COCPDRF@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:12:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:12:47 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Getting into Hi-Res Mode-- Really! In-reply-to: <9svo4o+eahk@e...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011115171225.00ab1298@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_617668==_.ALT" References: <4.2.2.20011106200732.00aa6ee8@p...> From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_617668==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 06:42 AM 11/15/2001 +0000, you wrote: ><< >The reason is that the 16 K x 1 DRAMs required have been >obsolete for years. ><< > >Used RAM chips I'm sure can be obtained from coinop circles. > >Old arcade game collectors often have to replace obsolete components, >and manage to do so quite successfully. > Then you can go ahead and modify your BPA for hires! >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=812074/R=0/*http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=b15334 >0270003000> > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_617668==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 06:42 AM 11/15/2001 +0000, you wrote:
<<
The reason is that the 16 K x 1 DRAMs required have been
obsolete for years.
<<

Used RAM chips I'm sure can be obtained from coinop circles.

Old arcade game collectors often have to replace obsolete components,
and manage to do so quite successfully.


Then you can go ahead and modify your BPA for hires!




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--=====================_617668==_.ALT-- From fmillera@p... Thu Nov 15 17:26:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 16 Nov 2001 01:26:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 39068 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2001 01:26:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Nov 2001 01:26:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.241) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2001 01:26:28 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.210]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GMV00LXBDC1TH@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:26:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:26:23 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Hi-res, the subject that never dies In-reply-to: <9t1kqq+4dt5@e...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011115171419.00ad8b58@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1433270==_.ALT" References: <4.2.2.20011108181803.00a8e998@p...> From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_1433270==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:58 PM 11/15/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Here is a theoretical question about hires.. (hey, it's fun to >discuss, why get upset about it?) > >A typical way to upgrade memory on 8-bit machines is via >piggybacking, you solder the pins of a ram chip on top of the legs of >the chip underneath it. > >If you were to stack 3 levels of RAM chips on top of the 4K on board >would it be possible to run jumpers to the appropriate pins in order >to enable hires? Yes, this would work, using 3 more 4 K RAMs on top of each one on the BPA. You would have to add duplicate flipflops for the RAS delay, and there might be a problem with the Memory data buffer. I need to find a data sheet for the RAM (anyone know where I can get one?) And then there's the problem of probably drawing too much current from the power supplies..... >What Tony said, I think, was that the graphics chips don't even have >enough pins exposed to be able to address more than 4K, is that >correct? No, incorrect. For commercial mode, three unused Address pines (RAS1,2,3) are connected to the RAS pins (through delay flipflops) of the additional screen RAMs >Assuming that's the case, how does memory map to the screen when the >PBA is in hires mode? >If the existing 4K would map to the top 1/4th of the screen, would it >be possible to bank-switch during screen draw and tell the BPA to >keep reading the same 4K address area 4 times? Then why add extra memory? This would give you four identical sreen displays, in four quadrants of the screen. I need to look at the timing in more detail. In hires mode, the horizontal resolution is 320, not 160, implying that the RAMs are read out twice as quickly. I need to figure out how they accommodated this with the clocks used, since I think both systems used the same clock frequency. >The bankswitch would have to be nearly instantaneous in order to >avoid a video glitch. I'm thinking that the bank switch would occur >in a similar fashion to the color-register-change-per-scanline >capability. This would not be a problem, since the screen memory is not constantly accessed. Synchronization would be fairly simple. >Conceptually speaking, this is how the Atari 2600 works, but it would >work on a chunk of the screen at once rather than just one scanline >at a time as the VCS does. >It would be hard for the Z80 to update graphics this way to be sure, >since in order for the Z80 to see the bank, that bank needs to be >actively selected (i.e. being drawn) (other than during >overscan/vblank) but I was just wondering if that would be possible. But the Z80 can't keep up. The only way to do what I think you're suggesting is to have the Z80 update the memory just displayed with new data, so that when the display hardware 'recycles' these addresses, there is new data there. There is no way the Z80 can write data quicly enough to do this. >And assuming you didn't have a memory expansion, would it be >possible, through some sort of DMA off the PBA, for an expansion >device to copy memory fast enough from external to internal screen >ram during horizontal blank every 1/4 screen and then redirect the >BPA's screen RAM pointer to keep rereading the same 4K? Probably not. This is similar to what the Gorf Pattern board does for the commercial game. It DMAs data from PROM to screen RAM by turning off the Z80. >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=812075/R=0/*http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=b17834 >9800057000> > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_1433270==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 11:58 PM 11/15/2001 +0000, you wrote:
Here is a theoretical question about hires.. (hey, it's fun to
discuss, why get upset about it?)

A typical way to upgrade memory on 8-bit machines is via
piggybacking, you solder the pins of a ram chip on top of the legs of
the chip underneath it.

If you were to stack 3 levels of RAM chips on top of the 4K on board
would it be possible to run jumpers to the appropriate pins in order
to enable hires?


Yes, this would work, using 3 more 4 K RAMs on top of each one on the BPA.  You would have to add duplicate flipflops for the RAS delay, and there might be a problem with the Memory data buffer.  I need to find a data sheet for the RAM (anyone know where I can get one?)  And then there's the problem of probably drawing too much current from the power supplies.....


What Tony said, I think, was that the graphics chips don't even have
enough pins exposed to be able to address more than 4K, is that
correct?


No, incorrect.  For commercial mode, three unused Address pines (RAS1,2,3) are connected to the RAS pins (through delay flipflops) of the additional screen RAMs


Assuming that's the case, how does memory map to the screen when the
PBA is in hires mode?




If the existing 4K would map to the top 1/4th of the screen, would it
be possible to bank-switch during screen draw and tell the BPA to
keep reading the same 4K address area 4 times?

Then why add extra memory?  This would give you four identical sreen displays, in four quadrants of the screen.  I need to look at the timing in more detail.  In hires mode, the horizontal resolution is 320, not 160, implying that the RAMs are read out twice as quickly.  I need to figure out how they accommodated this with the clocks used, since I think both systems used the same clock frequency.


The bankswitch would have to be nearly instantaneous in order to
avoid a video glitch.  I'm thinking that the bank switch would occur
in a similar fashion to the color-register-change-per-scanline
capability.
This would not be a problem, since the screen memory is not constantly accessed.  Synchronization would be fairly simple.


Conceptually speaking, this is how the Atari 2600 works, but it would
work on a chunk of the screen at once rather than just one scanline
at a time as the VCS does.



It would be hard for the Z80 to update graphics this way to be sure,
since in order for the Z80 to see the bank, that bank needs to be
actively selected (i.e. being drawn) (other than during
overscan/vblank) but I was just wondering if that would be possible.


But the Z80 can't keep up.  The only way to do what I think you're suggesting is to have the Z80 update the memory just displayed with new data, so that when the display hardware 'recycles' these addresses, there is new data there.  There is no way the Z80 can write data quicly enough to do this.


And assuming you didn't have a memory expansion, would it be
possible, through some sort of DMA off the PBA, for an expansion
device to copy memory fast enough from external to internal screen
ram during horizontal blank every 1/4 screen and then redirect the
BPA's screen RAM pointer to keep rereading the same 4K?  Probably not.

This is similar to what the Gorf Pattern board does for the commercial game.  It DMAs data from PROM to screen RAM by turning off the Z80.






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--=====================_1433270==_.ALT-- From cybpunks@h... Fri Nov 16 01:01:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 16 Nov 2001 09:01:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 69131 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2001 09:01:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Nov 2001 09:01:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.76) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2001 09:01:15 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.2.27] by n26.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Nov 2001 08:59:12 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:01:03 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Hi-res, the subject that never dies Message-ID: <9t2kkf+ufol@e...> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20011115171419.00ad8b58@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 102 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 4.33.172.52 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo << Yes, this would work. << So you've admitted it's possible. Who is going to try this out then?? From ballyalley@h... Fri Nov 16 06:24:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 16 Nov 2001 14:24:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 43621 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2001 14:24:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Nov 2001 14:24:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.218) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2001 14:24:28 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 06:24:28 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 14:24:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Not me Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 06:24:28 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Nov 2001 14:24:28.0268 (UTC) FILETIME=[66499AC0:01C16EAA] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >> So you've admitted it's possible. Who is going to try this out then?? >> um, not me. you go first. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Fri Nov 16 07:50:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 16 Nov 2001 15:50:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 34873 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2001 15:50:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Nov 2001 15:50:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.191) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2001 15:50:16 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 07:50:16 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:50:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Emulator Opcade File Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 07:50:15 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Nov 2001 15:50:16.0218 (UTC) FILETIME=[62B46FA0:01C16EB6] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo What would it take for the MAME Astrocade emulator to incorporate an “Opcode file” for use with the dz80 disassembler? (http://www.inkland.demon.co.uk/). Here is what the dz80 docs says about the opcode-file: >> Using an Opcode Map File One common problem when disassembling raw files is that, more often than not, data is placed in-between code routines, that disassemblers are usually oblivious to and continue to disassemble as normal. This of course shows up as garbage code. There are no fool-proof ways of "guessing" which is data and which is code, so I have added support for opcode map files. These files inform dZ80 which addresses are code, and not data. At the moment, the only emulator I know which produces these files is Gerton Lunter's excellent "Z80" ZX Spectrum emulator. The format of these files is quite simply a bitmap for each instruction executed. One bit is used per address, which gives an 8K-map file covering the Z80's 64K-address space. Example (albeit a 2 byte!) opcode map file: Byte 0 - 00100111 Indicates addresses 0, 1, 2 and 5 have been executed. Byte 1 - 00001001 Indicates addresses 8 and 11 have been executed. >> Pretty neat... Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Fri Nov 16 09:23:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 16 Nov 2001 17:23:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 46945 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2001 17:23:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Nov 2001 17:23:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.85) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2001 17:23:24 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:23:23 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:23:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Emulator Opcade File Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:23:23 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Nov 2001 17:23:23.0971 (UTC) FILETIME=[6543E130:01C16EC3] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo I hand-made an opcode map file for the dz80 disassembler and it works well. This file could be indispensable for an accurate disassembly of the Astrocade ROM. It would be excellent to see it added to the Astrocade emulator. Here are the facts taken from an emulator that does this already. This information is from the file ‘TECHINFO.DOC’ that is included with the Sinclair ZX Spectrum Emulator 'Z80' v4.00 (6/3/99) by G.A. Lunter. Map files --------- Map files are those that are produced via option -0m; see section 2.19 in Z80.DOC. These files have no default extension; .MAP seems a natural suggestion. These files are meant to be used with a future version of Leslie Styles' DSNA (a snapshot disassembler; you can find it on ftp.nvg.unit.no). Map files are 8192 bytes long. Each byte represents 8 addresses in Spectrum memory, from #0000 to #FFFF. Note that the rom is also mapped. A one at bit-position k in byte n means that at least once during the time the emulator emulated, it emulated the opcode it found at address 8n+k. The shifted opcodes will only have the shift code marked (though the Z80 chip is, I think, in machine cycle 1, M1, during both the shift fetch and the secondary opcode fetch). Due to the way unofficial DD and FD instructions are implemented, a sequence of DD's is considered as one very long instruction, and will result in only the address of the first DD that was executed being tagged. You should not use Hi-res color emulation during opcode mapping; they use the same buffer area. HRC emulation still works, but destroys the mapping buffer. Also, option -xu (disable HCR emulation to use less memory) will disable opcode mapping. Finally, the mapping procedure does not take memory paging into account, and it is therefore not very practical in 128K modes, in SamRam mode, and for mapping the execution of the shadow roms (128K, SamRam, Interface I, Multiface). It works best for mapping the ordinary rom and ordinary 48K Spectrum programs. Also note that the map is never cleared, not even when another snapshot is loaded. The best way to use this feature is the following. Load the program you want to disassemble, and let it run to the main starting point, so that all decoding, decompressing, and moving around has probably been done. Then save the snapshot ('program.z80'), and start the emulator with 'z80 -0m program.map program.z80'. Run it for a while, but be sure never to reset the Spectrum, or to enter the SamRam or Multiface, or load another snapshot. After a while, quit the emulator (Ctrl-Break), and you'll find the file 'program.map' contain the locations of the opcodes executed. By tracing the code blocks found, and also taking the conditional branches that were left alone during execution, most of the code can probably be found. This option has been added after reading a remark of Leslie Styles (lsm@s...), who had been trying to make his disassembler figure out which parts of memory were actual code, and which were data. It seemed to me that the only reliable way was to actually emulate the code. For almost all programs this will be sufficient. It however still does not take into account the possibility of self-modifying code. For completely general programs, the approach that Arnt Gulbrandsen followed in his JPP (also keeping a map of executed opcode locations, but invalidating these if necessary when data is written to memory) is the only right solution. The current approach however was so simple to implement that I thought it to be worthwhile. Any thoughts? Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From solder_guy@m... Fri Nov 16 18:26:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 17 Nov 2001 02:26:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 11566 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2001 02:26:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Nov 2001 02:26:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail19.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.50) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Nov 2001 02:26:56 -0000 Received: (from www@l...) by mail19.bigmailbox.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) id fAH2Quv12314; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:26:56 -0800 Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:26:56 -0800 Message-Id: <200111170226.fAH2Quv12314@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [166.102.177.82] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Nutting Assignments Update (101-120) From: "solder_guy Last Name" X-Yahoo-Profile: solder_guy >>Rob - Your email is being return to me...<< Sorry .. my email server is turning against me ... Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Sat Nov 17 08:28:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 17 Nov 2001 16:28:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 12969 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2001 16:28:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Nov 2001 16:28:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.74) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Nov 2001 16:28:29 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.2.109] by n24.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2001 16:28:29 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 16:28:27 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 4 Message-ID: <9t637b+8l49@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 801 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.67.88.61 From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo November 17, 2001 Version 1.4 of the Nutting Manual Project has been completed (added pages 51-70). The file is called nutting.zip and is located at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ We need help. See text file at above address for more details for. Currently In Progress, or Left TODO: 12-20 - In Progress - Rob Mitchell 70-101 - Mike, yes or no? Contact me very soon 101-120 - In progress - Glenn Saunders 121-143 - NOT ASSIGNED - Please volunteer Pages 121-143 have some pretty complex ASCII-Diagrams. If some volunteers can tackle just two of these, that would be of great help. After that we have the ROM source to tackle. Right now, we're looking good. And thanks again to Lance and Glenn for accepting and finishing assignments. Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Sat Nov 17 09:15:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 17 Nov 2001 17:15:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 38213 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2001 17:15:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Nov 2001 17:15:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.70) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Nov 2001 17:15:28 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:15:28 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:15:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Bally Astrocade Equate Header File Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:15:28 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Nov 2001 17:15:28.0520 (UTC) FILETIME=[74499080:01C16F8B] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Bally Astrocade Equate Header File The equate header file that TASM can assemble is now included in the file section of the discussion group. It has been in the file area since the first week of October, but as a text file. I have updated the comments and renamed it to: ballyequ.h It can be downloaded from: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ Some equates are not there, and none of the macros are included yet. This file is only pages 1-7 of 15 from the ‘Nutting” manual. Yes, this file needs to be completed, but first things first: we are currently working on the manual itself. When pages 1-143 of the manual are done, then we can evalutate how to tackle the ROM. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From cybpunks@h... Sat Nov 17 18:34:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 18 Nov 2001 02:34:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 19664 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2001 02:34:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Nov 2001 02:34:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.63) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 2001 02:34:14 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.2.11] by n13.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Nov 2001 02:29:01 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 02:34:12 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Nutting manual in other documents Message-ID: <9t76n4+ql41@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 402 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 4.33.173.244 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/misc_docs/bally_system_descrip tion.pdf Take a look at this. It's a subset of the Nutting manual, renumbered pages, with NO COPY PROTECTION STAMPS. We'll have to proofread the transcription against this, and maybe extract the diagrams from it as well. BTW, I have finished my assignment and continued all the way to the last page of the Nutting Manual. From fmillera@p... Sat Nov 17 18:54:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 18 Nov 2001 02:54:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 48063 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2001 02:54:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Nov 2001 02:54:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 2001 02:54:34 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.83]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GMZ004NY6QW8T@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 18:54:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 18:54:29 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Nutting manual in other documents In-reply-to: <9t76n4+ql41@e...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011117185358.00aadd08@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_30229978==_.ALT" References: From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_30229978==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:34 AM 11/18/2001 +0000, you wrote: >htt >p://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/misc_docs/bally_system_descrip >tion.pdf Sorry, cannot download the file, even with the http: complete >Take a look at this. It's a subset of the Nutting manual, renumbered >pages, with NO COPY PROTECTION STAMPS. > >We'll have to proofread the transcription against this, and maybe >extract the diagrams from it as well. > >BTW, I have finished my assignment and continued all the way to the >last page of the Nutting Manual. > > > > >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=812075/R=0/*http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=b17834 >9800057000> > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_30229978==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 02:34 AM 11/18/2001 +0000, you wrote:
http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/misc_docs/bally_system_descrip
tion.pdf

Sorry, cannot download the file, even with the http: complete

Take a look at this.  It's a subset of the Nutting manual, renumbered
pages, with NO COPY PROTECTION STAMPS.

We'll have to proofread the transcription against this, and maybe
extract the diagrams from it as well.

BTW, I have finished my assignment and continued all the way to the
last page of the Nutting Manual.




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--=====================_30229978==_.ALT-- From cybpunks@h... Sun Nov 18 08:33:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 18 Nov 2001 16:33:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 86368 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2001 16:33:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Nov 2001 16:33:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.74) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 2001 16:33:05 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.94] by n24.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Nov 2001 16:33:05 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 16:33:04 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Nutting manual in other documents Message-ID: <9t8ns0+psd3@e...> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20011117185358.00aadd08@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 169 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 4.33.173.244 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo > Sorry, cannot download the file, even with the http: complete Try the files area here. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/bally_system_descriptio n.pdf From ballyalley@h... Tue Nov 20 12:50:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 20 Nov 2001 20:50:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 80261 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 20:50:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Nov 2001 20:50:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.80) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 20:50:53 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:50:52 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: Subject: PAL Astrocade Prototype(s) ?!? Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:56:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Nov 2001 20:50:52.0958 (UTC) FILETIME=[0B178BE0:01C17205] From: "ballyalley" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo November 20, 2001 I've fielded questions about PAL Astrocades before with "Nope, sorry, there are none." I've never even heard of any PAL machines in development- until today. This email from Tom Meeks asks about PAL Astrocades. Tom wrote: >> I worked with Astrocade at the time they filed for Chapter 11. At that time there were two 'add-under' protoypes that had been created at Dave Nutting associates. I'm wondering if anyone knows where they might have ended up when the company went under? There were also one or two prototypes of PAL versions of the game system... I'd love to know the fate of them also. >> Anyone ever hear of these PAL protos before? The Astrocade was never released overseas, but if prototypes were in developments, then the idea had to have been on someone's mind. I suggested to Tom that he join this discussion group. An ex-Astrocade employee? That's a new one on me; such a person could add some previously "unknown" tid-bits to our discussions. Adam From rich_gallo@h... Tue Nov 20 18:37:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich_gallo@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 21 Nov 2001 02:37:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 24360 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 02:37:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2001 02:37:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.77) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 02:37:36 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: rich_gallo@h... Received: from [10.1.2.30] by n27.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2001 02:37:36 -0000 Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 02:37:34 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: FT: Boxed Atari 5200 4 port for Boxed Bally Astrocade Message-ID: <9tf41e+t9ig@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 765 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.108.82.187 From: "Rich Gallo" X-Yahoo-Profile: rich_gallo_66 Hello All, sorry if I have posted this in the wrong place or if my post offends anyone. BUT... I have a very nice condition Atari 5200 4 port model which is BOXED with 2 working controllers, switchbox and power supply. Everything is in very very nice condition, the box is really great. I'd like to get a boxed Bally Astrocade/Astrovision console with 2 controllers and powersupply in similar condition. If you have a few boxed games, I can throw in a few common shrinkwrapped 5200 titles. I can provide my ebay id for reference (close to 200 positive feedbacks with NO negatives). Serious inquiries only, please. Reply to email address mrretrogamer@*yourshorts*hotmail.com for faster consideration. Please remove *yourshorts* when replying! Thanks! From meeks46@h... Tue Nov 20 18:42:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: meeks46@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 21 Nov 2001 02:42:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 10567 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 02:42:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2001 02:42:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.61) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 02:42:45 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: meeks46@h... Received: from [10.1.2.211] by n11.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2001 02:42:45 -0000 Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 02:42:44 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: PAL Astrocade Prototype(s) ?!? Message-ID: <9tf4b4+hm00@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2862 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.1.247.186 From: meeks46@h... X-Yahoo-Profile: galaxiankiller Happy to join! Toward the end of the life of Astrocade there was a frantic effort to sell the company. Some of the US companies we met with were Marvel Comics, Quaker Oats (Fisher-Price) and Hasbro and we came tantalyzingly close to closing deals that would have at least given us the management we needed to have a chance at surviving. However, when all these efforts failed, we began looking at the European market as a possible source of salvation. One of the companies to whom we talked was Standard Elektrik Lorenz AG, in Pforzheim, Germany (ITT Europe). They rightfully demanded a PAL version before they would seriously talk to us. If I remember correctly, we had 2 PAL Astrocade prototypes. It took us quite a while to come up with them becuase Astrocade did NOT have the original masks for the custom chips... and, in fact, was never able to have access to them. After a great deal of effort we were able to have the original designer 'scratch' the masks to enable a PAL signal. Now, I have NO idea what 'scratching the mask' was except that it appears to have changed a counting register that affected the video timing. Whatever it was, it worked. The PAL signal was absolutely GORGEOUS and as clean as a whistle. I carried them back and forth to Europe for a number demos... so, I knoew that at least TWO were made. I do NOT know what happened to them after Astrocade closed. I suspect that they ended up back at Dave Nutting. And... speaking of Dave Nutting... He was an absolutely WONDERFUL gentleman. I have nothing but respect for him in so many ways. Whatever problems Astrocade had in those days did NOT originate with either him or his programming staff. First class people. --- In ballyalley@y..., "ballyalley" wrote: > November 20, 2001 > > I've fielded questions about PAL Astrocades before with "Nope, sorry, there > are none." I've never even heard of any PAL machines in development- until > today. This email from Tom Meeks asks about PAL Astrocades. Tom wrote: > > >> > I worked with Astrocade at the time they filed for Chapter 11. At that time > there were two 'add-under' protoypes that had been created at Dave Nutting > associates. I'm wondering if anyone knows where they might have ended up > when the company went under? > There were also one or two prototypes of PAL versions of the game system... > I'd love to know the fate of them also. > >> > > Anyone ever hear of these PAL protos before? The Astrocade was never > released overseas, but if prototypes were in developments, then the idea > had to have been on someone's mind. > > I suggested to Tom that he join this discussion group. An ex- Astrocade > employee? That's a new one on me; such a person could add some previously > "unknown" tid-bits to our discussions. > > Adam From meeks46@h... Tue Nov 20 18:58:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: meeks46@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 21 Nov 2001 02:58:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 62884 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 02:58:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2001 02:58:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.75) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 02:58:24 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: meeks46@h... Received: from [10.1.10.68] by n25.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2001 02:57:56 -0000 Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 02:58:21 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Astrocade "Add-Under" Information Message-ID: <9tf58d+j8lp@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1560 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.1.247.186 From: meeks46@h... X-Yahoo-Profile: galaxiankiller I haven't searched the threads to see if there are any references to the Add-Under that was to turn the bally into a full computer; but, I thought some of you may be interested in the story of it's development. When I bought my first Bally Professional Arcade they were promising an add-under unit that would turn it into a personal computer. That was in 1978 or 1979 while Bally still marketed it. They even showed a prototype of the unit at various shows. It was all smoke and mirrors at that time. Astrocade pursued the dream of the add-under and finally had REAL working protypes several month before declaring Chapter 11. By the day's standards it was a hot box. The language that was going to be shipped was a version of Dr. Tom DeFanti's ZGRASS that was light years ahead of the Basic commonly used in other systems of the day. It was an animation language patterned after Smalltalk and had the common sense syntax of Bally''s Tiny Basic when it came to creating graphics. It was, and still is, my favorite of all the languages with which I've worked. The first game that I programmed on the add-under was a horse-racing game. We almost lost one of the prototypes when I forgot to take it off an airplane in Wisconsin. Fortunately, the pilot waited at the end of the runway for me to ride out on a baggage truck and pick it up. I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Delta since that night. I have the original manuals for ZGRASS and would be glad to put up some sample syntax if people are interested. From cybpunks@h... Wed Nov 21 11:54:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 21 Nov 2001 19:54:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 20488 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 19:54:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2001 19:54:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.52) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 19:54:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.2.109] by n2.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2001 19:54:19 -0000 Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:54:15 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: PAL Astrocade Prototype(s) ?!? Message-ID: <9th0p7+a51q@e...> In-Reply-To: <9tf4b4+hm00@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1301 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.77 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> Toward the end of the life of Astrocade there was a frantic effort to sell the company. Some of the US companies we met with were Marvel Comics, Quaker Oats (Fisher-Price) and Hasbro and we came tantalyzingly close to closing deals that would have at least given us the management we needed to have a chance at surviving. << But what would survival mean? What was the mid to long-term business strategy at Astrovision? What I would have done to start out with would be to recruit grass- roots developers (ala APX) and try to pump out more games, as well as increase distribution and cost-reduce the console. By 1982 or so, the original circa 1977 Astrocade design was pretty inefficient, and certainly not even living up to the full potential of its custom chips. You probably could have redesigned the console to have hires support and backwards compatibility and make it run cooler and more reliably in the process, maybe embed a Votrax speech synthesizer at the same time while you were at it, which would have basically given you equivalent hardware to the Gorf/WoW arcade card-cage on a single board. That design probably would have held up okay against the Colecovision and the C=64. Were there any ideas along those lines? How limited were Astrovision's resources? From cybpunks@h... Wed Nov 21 11:57:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 21 Nov 2001 19:57:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 46078 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 19:57:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2001 19:57:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.66) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 19:57:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.4.24] by n16.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2001 19:56:45 -0000 Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:57:05 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Astrocade "Add-Under" Information Message-ID: <9th0uh+ps2r@e...> In-Reply-To: <9tf58d+j8lp@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 296 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.77 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> Astrocade pursued the dream of the add-under and finally had REAL working protypes several month before declaring Chapter 11. By the day's standards it was a hot box. << If Bally had completed most of the R&D before 1980, what was the long delay in finishing the add-under caused by? From meeks46@h... Wed Nov 21 20:12:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: meeks46@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 22 Nov 2001 04:12:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 18486 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 04:12:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2001 04:12:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.78) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 04:12:45 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: meeks46@h... Received: from [10.1.10.122] by n28.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2001 04:12:44 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 04:12:44 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: PAL Astrocade Prototype(s) ?!? Message-ID: <9thtvs+lakq@e...> In-Reply-To: <9th0p7+a51q@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5451 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.1.247.186 From: meeks46@h... X-Yahoo-Profile: galaxiankiller > But what would survival mean? Aside from the designer of the custom chips, who, in my opinion twarted our development at every step, the team we had assembled for both software and hardware was unbeatable. As you probably already know, we were rated #1 by Consumer Reports in the very month we filed for Chapter 11. That was particularly remarkable given the fact that we were WAY more expensive than any of the other systems and had fewer titles. > What was the mid to long-term business strategy at Astrovision? To shaft our distributers and sell the company to a large toy maker. The product was great. The management was in continual turmoil... and had long been fractured into two competing camps. Distributors were sent base units and the less popular cartridges while the high demand cartridges were withheld. When they 'failed to meet their numbers' then other distributers from right down the street were brought in. The sales strategy was based purely on the fact that certain parties were to be paid a percentage of every BASE UNIT sold. NOT a healthy formula for a struggling company. All of us that truly loved the product and believed in Tom DeFanti's ZGrass was a wonderful language worked as hard as we could to make the product attractive to another company with a great reputation for fairness to consumers and it's distribution channel. Fisher Price or Hasbro was our choice at the time. We came close with Fisher Price; but, one of our users somehow got wind of the talks and called Fisher-Price to encourage the purchase. As you can imagine, that kind of indescretion killed the deal. > What I would have done to start out with would be to recruit grass- > roots developers (ala APX) and try to pump out more games, as well > increase distribution and cost-reduce the console. That's actually the WORST of strategies. It was OVERSUPPLY of cartridges and LOWER COSTS OF BASE UNITS that killed the standalone game industry. Here's why. Consumers tended to spend almost the exact amount on cartridges as they had spent on the base unit in order to protect their investment. When the base unit prices starting plummiting so did the ratio of cartridges to bases... so, everyone took a double whammy. Oversupply of titles also took its toll. When a parent had 15 or 20 titles it was easy to pick out the best. When Atari titles reached into the hundreds there was virtually no way for a parent to easily figure out which were the best... so, they postponed the decision. Nintendo revived the game industry by EXACTLY the opposite strategy you proposed. They severely limited both the number of titles and the availability of cartridges... making them "must have" status items among kids. You were somebody special if you actually had a "Mario" cartridge! > By 1982 or so, the original circa 1977 Astrocade design was pretty > inefficient, and certainly not even living up to the full potential > of its custom chips. You probably could have redesigned the > console to have hires support and backwards compatibility and make > it run cooler and more reliably in the process, maybe embed a > Votrax speech synthesizer at the same time while you were at it, > which would have basically given you equivalent hardware to the > Gorf/WoW arcade card-cage on a single board. That design probably > would have held up okay against the Colecovision and the C=64. You have put your finger on some of the problems we had. The case could have been redesigned for a sleeker look... and, I had actually informally commissioned some drawings of potential case designs for our PAL version. We were considering, for instance, a built-in drawing pad. As you probably know, the Datamax UV-1 worked at the full resolution of the custom chips. Memory costs were the big problem with going that route. You have to realize that memory was monstrously expensive in those days and we were limited in the type and configuration we could use. In fact, the whole reason we ran at a lower resolution where we could use the SAME memory for the screen AND programs was the high cost of memory at the time. Then there was the fact that Astrocade could never gain control of the masks for the chips so that our own engineers could move it forward. Had we gotten the add-under out the door in a timely fashion, it could have really wiped out the viability of the Coleco and C-64. Even with the fewer colors per scan line (256 total) our bitmapped technology and the real-time animation capability of Zgrass without PEEKS and POKES should have had a MAJOR impact on the direction of future computing standards. But, unfortunately, it didn't happen. > Were there any ideas along those lines? How limited were > Astrovision's resources? Astrocade never really had deep pockets. That, coupled with the constant petty feuding among the financial principals meant that our only hope was to be acquired by a reputable company. If people like Dave Nutting, Bob Ogdon, Dr. Tom DeFanti, Jamie (Jay) Fenton, John Perkins and Jim McConnell had been working for someone like Fisher- Price or Hasbro, can you just IMAGINE what they would have been able to achieve! In my opinion, NO company has EVER had such a talented bunch of people that worked so well together. As it was, they did remarkable things in the face of almost insurmountable circumstances. From meeks46@h... Wed Nov 21 20:22:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: meeks46@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 22 Nov 2001 04:22:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 69583 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 04:22:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2001 04:22:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.55) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 04:22:01 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: meeks46@h... Received: from [10.1.10.114] by n5.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2001 04:22:01 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 04:22:00 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Astrocade "Add-Under" Information Message-ID: <9thuh8+32tq@e...> In-Reply-To: <9th0uh+ps2r@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1093 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.1.247.186 From: meeks46@h... X-Yahoo-Profile: galaxiankiller In my opinion it was largely smoke and mirrors by a single designer that kept a stranglehold on the designs and was allowed to do so by a non-technical management team for FAR too long. We finally got it when push came to shove. But, EVERYONE should no that it was NOT Jim McConnell, who was a marvelous engineer, nor Dave Nutting, Bob Ogdon or any of the programming staff at Nutting Associates that was the problem. All these guys were marvelous... as were Dr. DeFanti and John Perkens. The fact that ANY of these machines are still alive and revered are a testament to Jim and all the other's I've praised here. If it hadn't been for Jim's ingenuity, not a single I/O chip would still be working! --- In ballyalley@y..., "Glenn Saunders" wrote: > >> > Astrocade pursued the dream of the add-under and finally had REAL > working protypes several month before declaring Chapter 11. By the > day's standards it was a hot box. > << > > If Bally had completed most of the R&D before 1980, what was > the long delay in finishing the add-under caused by? From ballyalley@h... Thu Nov 22 06:42:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 22 Nov 2001 14:42:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 73875 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 14:42:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2001 14:42:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.28) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 14:42:30 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 06:42:29 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:42:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Giving the 'Shaft' to distributers Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 06:42:29 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Nov 2001 14:42:29.0389 (UTC) FILETIME=[E92A13D0:01C17363] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Tom, when asked about the long-term strategy of the Astrovision, you wrote 'to shaft our distributers and sell the company to a large toy maker.' You don't REALLY mean this do you? I'm sure this is a typo; you mean 'shift' and not 'shaft,' right? Giving a distributer 'the shaft' happens, but I hope it isn't part of a business deciesion. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Thu Nov 22 07:32:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 22 Nov 2001 15:32:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 20509 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 15:32:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2001 15:32:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.174) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 15:32:45 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:32:45 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:32:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: PAL Astrocade Prototype(s) ?!? Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:32:45 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Nov 2001 15:32:45.0520 (UTC) FILETIME=[EEEB2500:01C1736A] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Tom writes >> All of us that truly loved the product and believed in Tom DeFanti's ZGrass was a wonderful language worked as hard as we could to make the product attractive to another company... >> How come Astrovision and Datamax didn’t team up for one product? There is a very sound business reason for this, but, well, what was it? >> The case could have been redesigned for a sleeker look... >> That wouldn’t have changed the guts of the Astrocade. Would it, alone, have cuts costs? >> We were considering, for instance, a built-in drawing pad. >> A-la the Koala pad? Basically, Scribbling with a new interface? Neat idea, but something like that should be an accessory that plugs into one or two of the joystick ports. Look at the Sega Master System; the pause button is on the console. Rrr. >> As you probably know, the Datamax UV-1 worked at the full resolution of the custom chips. >> ALL versions of it? Do you still have yours? >> Had we gotten the add-under out the door in a timely fashion, it could have really wiped out the viability of the Coleco and C-64. >> What WAS the market for the new and improved Astrocade? The Colecovision was a game console (that could turn into the Adam computer), The C-64 was a home computer. Both of these machines, especially the C-64, would have had advantages over a strictly some-kind-of-Astrocade-with-64K-and-Hi-Res. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From fmillera@p... Thu Nov 22 08:24:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 22 Nov 2001 16:24:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 3454 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 16:24:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2001 16:24:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 16:24:51 -0000 Received: from laurie ([129.37.78.148]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GN7009XPMXA2J@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:24:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:24:42 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: PAL Astrocade Prototype(s) ?!? In-reply-to: <9thtvs+lakq@e...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011122080123.00b73dd0@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_2223927==_.ALT" References: <9th0p7+a51q@e...> From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_2223927==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 04:12 AM 11/22/2001 +0000, you wrote: > > But what would survival mean? > >Aside from the designer of the custom chips, who, in my opinion >twarted our development at every step, the team we had assembled for >both software and hardware was unbeatable. As you probably already >know, we were rated #1 by Consumer Reports in the very month we filed >for Chapter 11. That was particularly remarkable given the fact that >we were WAY more expensive than any of the other systems and had >fewer titles. Not sure about the relationship here. It sounds like Astrovision was a totally separate group from Nutting (DNA), but DNA/Bally/Midway kept 'the keys to the kingdom'. Correct? And by the 'designer of the custom chips do you mean Jeff Frederiksen? >As you probably know, the Datamax UV-1 worked at the full resolution >of the custom chips. Was the UV-1 ever completed? >Memory costs were the big problem with going >that route. You have to realize that memory was monstrously >expensive in those days and we were limited in the type and >configuration we could use. In fact, the whole reason we ran at a >lower resolution where we could use the SAME memory for the screen >AND programs was the high cost of memory at the time. Then there was >the fact that Astrocade could never gain control of the masks for the >chips so that our own engineers could move it forward. > >Had we gotten the add-under out the door in a timely fashion, it >could have really wiped out the viability of the Coleco and C-64. When I left DNA in the spring of 1979, there was a completed hardware, PC, and case design for the Add-under, with a working disk drive. Don't know what happened after that (I went to a coin-op competitor). If you know what happened, could you fill me in? >Even with the fewer colors per scan line (256 total) our bitmapped >technology and the real-time animation capability of Zgrass without >PEEKS and POKES should have had a MAJOR impact on the direction of >future computing standards. But, unfortunately, it didn't happen. The original Arcade could only do 8 colors/line (2 bits/pixel = 4, plus the left/right color set registers). By 256 total do you mean the entire color palette? Or something different? > > Were there any ideas along those lines? How limited were > > Astrovision's resources? > >Astrocade never really had deep pockets. That, coupled with the >constant petty feuding among the financial principals meant that our >only hope was to be acquired by a reputable company. If people like >Dave Nutting, Bob Ogdon, Dr. Tom DeFanti, Jamie (Jay) Fenton, John >Perkins and Jim McConnell had been working for someone like Fisher- >Price or Hasbro, can you just IMAGINE what they would have been able >to achieve! In my opinion, NO company has EVER had such a talented >bunch of people that worked so well together. As it was, they did >remarkable things in the face of almost insurmountable circumstances. > Were Perkins and McConnell Astrovision employees or were they DNAers who came after I left? Who were the management types at Astrovision? I had heard that Bob Ogden had left DNA to form his own game group doing games for the arcade. Did he become part of Astrovision? Was DeFanti ever part of Astrovision? Did you know Larry Leske? >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=812075/R=0/*http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=b17834 >9800057000> > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_2223927==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 04:12 AM 11/22/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> But what would survival mean?

Aside from the designer of the custom chips, who, in my opinion
twarted our development at every step, the team we had assembled for
both software and hardware was unbeatable.  As you probably already
know, we were rated #1 by Consumer Reports in the very month we filed
for Chapter 11.  That was particularly remarkable given the fact that
we were WAY more expensive than any of the other systems and had
fewer titles.

Not sure about the relationship here.  It sounds like Astrovision was a totally separate group from Nutting (DNA), but DNA/Bally/Midway kept 'the keys to the kingdom'.  Correct?  And by the 'designer of the custom chips do you mean Jeff Frederiksen?


As you probably know, the Datamax UV-1 worked at the full resolution
of the custom chips. 

Was the UV-1 ever completed?


Memory costs were the big problem with going
that route.  You have to realize that memory was monstrously
expensive in those days and we were limited in the type and
configuration we could use.  In fact, the whole reason we ran at a
lower resolution where we could use the SAME memory for the screen
AND programs was the high cost of memory at the time.  Then there was
the fact that Astrocade could never gain control of the masks for the
chips so that our own engineers could move it forward.

Had we gotten the add-under out the door in a timely fashion, it
could have really wiped out the viability of the Coleco and C-64. 
When I left DNA in the spring of 1979, there was a completed hardware, PC, and case design for the Add-under, with a working disk drive.  Don't know what happened after that (I went to a coin-op competitor). If you know what happened, could you fill me in?



Even with the fewer colors per scan line (256 total) our bitmapped
technology and the real-time animation capability of Zgrass without
PEEKS and POKES should have had a MAJOR impact on the direction of
future computing standards.  But, unfortunately, it didn't happen.
The original Arcade could only do 8 colors/line (2 bits/pixel = 4, plus the left/right color set registers).  By 256 total do you mean the entire color palette?  Or something different?


> Were there any ideas along those lines?  How limited were
> Astrovision's resources?

Astrocade never really had deep pockets.  That, coupled with the
constant petty feuding among the financial principals meant that our
only hope was to be acquired by a reputable company.  If people like
Dave Nutting, Bob Ogdon, Dr. Tom DeFanti, Jamie (Jay) Fenton, John
Perkins and Jim McConnell had been working for someone like Fisher-
Price or Hasbro, can you just IMAGINE what they would have been able
to achieve!  In my opinion, NO company has EVER had such a talented
bunch of people that worked so well together.  As it was, they did
remarkable things in the face of almost insurmountable circumstances.


Were Perkins and McConnell Astrovision employees or were they DNAers who came after I left?  Who were the management types at Astrovision?  I had heard that Bob Ogden had left DNA to form his own game group doing games for the arcade.  Did he become part of Astrovision?  Was DeFanti ever part of Astrovision?  Did you know Larry Leske?

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--=====================_2223927==_.ALT-- From ballyalley@h... Thu Nov 22 11:04:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 22 Nov 2001 19:04:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 95665 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 19:04:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2001 19:04:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.6) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 19:04:55 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:04:55 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:04:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: On the completion of the UV-1 Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:04:55 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Nov 2001 19:04:55.0363 (UTC) FILETIME=[927F0930:01C17388] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo On Nov 22, 2001, Tony Miller asked: >> Was the UV-1 ever completed? >> Yes. In April I wrote a posting called “Overview of the Astrocade and its Relation to the UV-1 Computer.” It is message #104 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/message/104 It’s worth a read. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From jwkrych@n... Thu Nov 22 15:17:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 22 Nov 2001 23:17:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 47676 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 23:17:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2001 23:17:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.60) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 23:17:43 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: jwkrych@n... Received: from [10.1.4.22] by n10.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2001 23:17:43 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:17:36 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: On the completion of the UV-1 Message-ID: <9tk12g+trpa@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2080 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.50.231.206 From: jwkrych@n... X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 Hi Adam and the gang! Now that I am back with this, I have a few comments: 1.) It looks like that short of doing what the Perkins did with their modified BPA, having a second chipset in a modern "add-under" would provide high-res. 2.) If we can get the PA2 manual that completely describes the custom chips, we could replicate them with FPGA's. This would allow several options, to wit: a. A replacement motherboard for the BPA, with as many features that we could want. We fortunately live in an era of incredibly fast and powerful Z80 clones. One company makes an FPGA Z80 that runs up to 75MHz! Another, AB Semicon, makes a Z180 clone- compatible to the Z80, that runs at 20MIPS! Fortunately, SRAM that is 512K x 8 is very cheap, since the AB Semicon chip has an MMU that pages to 1MB. 3.) Given all of this, if we could really get a copy of the UV-1 system schematics and ROM's, we could really do some wonders with that, either through emulation, or actually making a replica-with FPGA's and a Z80. 4.) The TRS-80 crowd has done some great work with IDE and such and that driver software could be ported to us. Personally, short of the emulation route, cheapest and most feasable logistically, I would love a reoplacement BPA motherboard. You could store a cart with the new motherboard's flash ROM(or actually every one of them) and be able to run the system at extreme speeds. Another idea, that would require less real estate for a PCB, would actually be a "BPA-on-a-card", this would be a new BPA on a PCI card, communicating through the PCI bus to load carts and such. We could even have a UV-1 and a superBPA. If anything, I like the motherboard replacement, since you could stuff it into the same case. Only the owner would know the difference! Unless we add some really interesting menu options too! We've got PCB layout designers, and logic designers. We would need FPGA designers, and of course, we need that PA2 manaul extensively describing the custom chips. Makes for an interesting concept. Jim (Centurion030) From fmillera@p... Fri Nov 23 09:12:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 23 Nov 2001 17:12:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 28575 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 17:12:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Nov 2001 17:12:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 17:12:38 -0000 Received: from laurie ([129.37.78.22]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GN9003Z5JSZ8O@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:12:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:12:30 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: On the completion of the UV-1 In-reply-to: <9tk12g+trpa@e...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011123090858.00b76288@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_2636170==_.ALT" References: From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_2636170==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:17 PM 11/22/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Adam and the gang! > >Now that I am back with this, I have a few comments: > >1.) It looks like that short of doing what the Perkins did with their >modified BPA, having a second chipset in a modern "add-under" would >provide high-res. > >2.) If we can get the PA2 manual that completely describes the custom >chips, we could replicate them with FPGA's. This would allow several >options, to wit: > a. A replacement motherboard for the BPA, with as many >features that we could want. We fortunately live in an era of >incredibly fast and powerful Z80 clones. One company makes an FPGA >Z80 that runs up to 75MHz! Another, AB Semicon, makes a Z180 clone- >compatible to the Z80, that runs at 20MIPS! Fortunately, SRAM that is >512K x 8 is very cheap, since the AB Semicon chip has an MMU that >pages to 1MB. > >3.) Given all of this, if we could really get a copy of the UV-1 >system schematics and ROM's, we could really do some wonders with >that, either through emulation, or actually making a replica-with >FPGA's and a Z80. > >4.) The TRS-80 crowd has done some great work with IDE and such and >that driver software could be ported to us. > >Personally, short of the emulation route, cheapest and most feasable >logistically, I would love a reoplacement BPA motherboard. You could >store a cart with the new motherboard's flash ROM(or actually every >one of them) and be able to run the system at extreme speeds. Another >idea, that would require less real estate for a PCB, would actually >be a "BPA-on-a-card", this would be a new BPA on a PCI card, >communicating through the PCI bus to load carts and such. We could >even have a UV-1 and a superBPA. > >If anything, I like the motherboard replacement, since you could >stuff it into the same case. Only the owner would know the >difference! Unless we add some really interesting menu options too! > >We've got PCB layout designers, and logic designers. We would need >FPGA designers, and of course, we need that PA2 manaul extensively >describing the custom chips. Gang; I think this is a good idea, too. However, most FPGAs do not offer a D/A converter which would be required for video and audio output. Speaking of video, it would make more sense to output R,G,B instead of Video, R-Y, B-Y or at least make it an option. But who would be willing to pay for assembled boards, with the included price of PC board manufacture, parts procurement, and the like? Cheers, Tony Miller >Makes for an interesting concept. > > >Jim >(Centurion030) > > > > >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=812074/R=0/*http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=b15334 >0270003000> > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_2636170==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 11:17 PM 11/22/2001 +0000, you wrote:
Hi Adam and the gang!

Now that I am back with this, I have a few comments:

1.) It looks like that short of doing what the Perkins did with their
modified BPA, having a second chipset in a modern "add-under" would
provide high-res.

2.) If we can get the PA2 manual that completely describes the custom
chips, we could replicate them with FPGA's. This would allow several
options, to wit:
           a. A replacement motherboard for the BPA, with as many
features that we could want. We fortunately live in an era of
incredibly fast and powerful Z80 clones. One company makes an FPGA
Z80 that runs up to 75MHz! Another, AB Semicon, makes a Z180 clone-
compatible to the Z80, that runs at 20MIPS! Fortunately, SRAM that is
512K x 8 is very cheap, since the AB Semicon chip has an MMU that
pages to 1MB.

3.) Given all of this, if we could really get a copy of the UV-1
system schematics and ROM's, we could really do some wonders with
that, either through emulation, or actually making a replica-with
FPGA's and a Z80.

4.) The TRS-80 crowd has done some great work with IDE and such and
that driver software could be ported to us.

Personally, short of the emulation route, cheapest and most feasable
logistically, I would love a reoplacement BPA motherboard. You could
store a cart with the new motherboard's flash ROM(or actually every
one of them) and be able to run the system at extreme speeds. Another
idea, that would require less real estate for a PCB, would actually
be a "BPA-on-a-card", this would be a new BPA on a PCI card,
communicating through the PCI bus to load carts and such. We could
even have a UV-1 and a superBPA.

If anything, I like the motherboard replacement, since you could
stuff it into the same case. Only the owner would know the
difference! Unless we add some really interesting menu options too!

We've got PCB layout designers, and logic designers. We would need
FPGA designers, and of course, we need that PA2 manaul extensively
describing the custom chips.


Gang;

I think this is a good idea, too.  However, most FPGAs do not offer a D/A converter which would be required for video and audio output.  Speaking of video, it would make more sense to output R,G,B instead of Video, R-Y, B-Y or at least make it an option.  But who would be willing to pay for assembled boards, with the included price of PC board manufacture, parts procurement, and the like?

Cheers,

Tony Miller


Makes for an interesting concept.


Jim
(Centurion030)




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--=====================_2636170==_.ALT-- From jwkrych@n... Fri Nov 23 11:59:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 23 Nov 2001 19:59:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 83399 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 19:59:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Nov 2001 19:59:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.73) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 19:59:41 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: jwkrych@n... Received: from [10.1.10.114] by n23.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Nov 2001 19:59:41 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 19:59:38 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: On the completion of the UV-1 Message-ID: <9tm9ra+sg85@e...> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20011123090858.00b76288@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1241 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.50.231.193 From: jwkrych@n... X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 > Gang; > > I think this is a good idea, too. However, most FPGAs do not offer a D/A > converter which would be required for video and audio output. Speaking of > video, it would make more sense to output R,G,B instead of Video, R- Y, B-Y > or at least make it an option. But who would be willing to pay for > assembled boards, with the included price of PC board manufacture, parts > procurement, and the like? > > Cheers, > > Tony Miller > > Hi Tony! That is the majot problem-costs associated with the start-up and other, but it could be done. As for DAC's, we're are not looking for DAC's that come from Keithley Instruments Electrometers and SMU's. The video could be RGB, as well as composite, and s-video. Again, who is willing to work on such a project, and once finalized (the specs), carry it through. I have always been one for extreme secrecy on such matters until the product itself is ready for shipping. Regards, Jim p.s. Again, most of the parts are quite available-just which Z80 do we want to use. If adding external DAC's to a replicated custom chips, then that is not a problem, since we are not dealing with a need for a high-resolution DAC here, not meaning commercial mode for video. From ballyalley@h... Sat Nov 24 06:34:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Nov 2001 14:34:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 75079 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 14:34:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2001 14:34:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.213) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 14:34:14 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 06:34:14 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:34:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Simple Nutting conversion question Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 06:34:14 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2001 14:34:14.0672 (UTC) FILETIME=[171DC100:01C174F5] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo In converting the Nutting Manual to text, I sometimes come across what I don't know how to "translate." What is the proper way to write this in an ASCII file: ____ __ __ ____ MREQ, RD, M1, RFSH Here I used the underscore character to show exactly what is written in the manual; I can't do this ordinarily. What is the correct way to type this? What are these called? Lines? Would I rewrite it as: lines MREQ, RD, M1, RFSH Anyone? Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From fmillera@p... Sat Nov 24 08:13:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Nov 2001 16:13:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 11598 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 16:13:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2001 16:13:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.241) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 16:13:25 -0000 Received: from laurie ([32.101.233.215]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GNB00A89BQA7A@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 08:13:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 08:13:17 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: On the completion of the UV-1 In-reply-to: <9tm9ra+sg85@e...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011124080854.00b63260@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_485538==_.ALT" References: <4.2.2.20011123090858.00b76288@p...> From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_485538==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:59 PM 11/23/2001 +0000, you wrote: > > Gang; > > > > I think this is a good idea, too. However, most FPGAs do not offer >a D/A > > converter which would be required for video and audio output. >Speaking of > > video, it would make more sense to output R,G,B instead of Video, R- >Y, B-Y > > or at least make it an option. But who would be willing to pay for > > assembled boards, with the included price of PC board manufacture, >parts > > procurement, and the like? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tony Miller > > > > >Hi Tony! > >That is the majot problem-costs associated with the start-up and >other, but it could be done. > >As for DAC's, we're are not looking for DAC's that come from Keithley >Instruments Electrometers and SMU's. > >The video could be RGB, as well as composite, and s-video. > >Again, who is willing to work on such a project, and once finalized >(the specs), carry it through. > >I have always been one for extreme secrecy on such matters until the >product itself is ready for shipping. > >Regards, > >Jim > >p.s. Again, most of the parts are quite available-just which Z80 do >we want to use. If adding external DAC's to a replicated custom >chips, then that is not a problem, since we are not dealing with a >need for a high-resolution DAC here, not meaning commercial mode for >video. Jim et al; I'd be willing to give it a go, but I don't think we want to make it a product, at least as I'm inferring from your post. There are (probably) copyright issues, and certainly FCC and UL-type issues to be dealt with if one is developing a product. There are certainly many DACs available of far greater resolution/throughput than we would need. I was simply pointing out the fact (for the non-technical group members) that they would be needed external to any FPGAs used. Cheers, Tony Miller >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=812075/R=0/*http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=b17834 >9800057000> > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_485538==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 07:59 PM 11/23/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> Gang;
>
> I think this is a good idea, too.  However, most FPGAs do not offer
a D/A
> converter which would be required for video and audio output. 
Speaking of
> video, it would make more sense to output R,G,B instead of Video, R-
Y, B-Y
> or at least make it an option.  But who would be willing to pay for
> assembled boards, with the included price of PC board manufacture,
parts
> procurement, and the like?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tony Miller
>
>
Hi Tony!

That is the majot problem-costs associated with the start-up and
other, but it could be done.

As for DAC's, we're are not looking for DAC's that come from Keithley
Instruments Electrometers and SMU's.

The video could be RGB, as well as composite, and s-video.

Again, who is willing to work on such a project, and once finalized
(the specs), carry it through.

I have always been one for extreme secrecy on such matters until the
product itself is ready for shipping.

Regards,

Jim

p.s. Again, most of the parts are quite available-just which Z80 do
we want to use. If adding external DAC's to a replicated custom
chips, then that is not a problem, since we are not dealing with a
need for a high-resolution DAC here, not meaning commercial mode for
video.


Jim et al;

I'd be willing to give it a go, but I don't think we want to make it a product, at least as I'm inferring from your post.  There are (probably) copyright issues, and certainly FCC and UL-type issues to be dealt with if one is developing a product.

There are certainly many DACs available of far greater resolution/throughput than we would need.  I was simply pointing out the fact (for the non-technical group members) that they would be needed external to any FPGAs used.

Cheers,

Tony Miller




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--=====================_485538==_.ALT-- From fmillera@p... Sat Nov 24 08:16:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Nov 2001 16:16:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 7268 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 16:16:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2001 16:16:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.241) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 16:16:10 -0000 Received: from laurie ([32.101.233.215]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GNB00AJTBUW7I@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 08:16:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 08:16:04 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Simple Nutting conversion question In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011124081441.00b677b0@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_651336==_.ALT" From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_651336==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 06:34 AM 11/24/2001 -0800, you wrote: >In converting the Nutting Manual to text, I sometimes come across what I >don't know how to "translate." What is the proper way to write this in an >ASCII file: > >____ __ __ ____ >MREQ, RD, M1, RFSH > >Here I used the underscore character to show exactly what is written in the >manual; I can't do this ordinarily. What is the correct way to type this? >What are these called? Lines? Would I rewrite it as: > >lines MREQ, RD, M1, RFSH Adam; Usually the signal name is appended with # or _n to indicate that the signal is true on logical 0. Cheers, Tony Miller >Anyone? > >Adam > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=812075/R=0/*http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=b17834 >9800057000> > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_651336==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 06:34 AM 11/24/2001 -0800, you wrote:
In converting the Nutting Manual to text, I sometimes come across what I
don't know how to "translate."  What is the proper way to write this in an
ASCII file:

____  __  __  ____
MREQ, RD, M1, RFSH

Here I used the underscore character to show exactly what is written in the
manual; I can't do this ordinarily.   What is the correct way to type this? 
What are these called?  Lines?  Would I rewrite it as:

lines MREQ, RD, M1, RFSH


Adam;

Usually the signal name is appended with # or _n to indicate that the signal is true on logical 0.

Cheers,


Tony Miller


Anyone?

Adam



_________________________________________________________________
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--=====================_651336==_.ALT-- From jwkrych@n... Sat Nov 24 11:52:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Nov 2001 19:52:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 77051 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 19:52:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2001 19:52:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.51) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 19:52:33 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: jwkrych@n... Received: from [10.1.10.96] by n1.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2001 19:52:33 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:52:27 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: On the completion of the UV-1 Message-ID: <9totpr+rs5k@e...> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20011124080854.00b63260@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1370 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.50.231.224 From: jwkrych@n... X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 Hi Tony! Then the question is to contact Bally and find out who has the rights to the BPA and the custom chips. Probably a mixed ownership-Astorcade having the rights to the BPA, and Bally owning the rights to the custom chips. I would probably guess that once we do get the right point of contact, being able to use that would come at a very reasonable fee per unit. My own experience with TI for a 99/4A clone on a PC card was $1 per unit sold for the complete use of the OS and GROMs. A motherboard replacement: only people with an exisiting console could use it, unless someone puts the motherboard into a homebrew case. And, of course, the slight problem of FCC and such. A BPA on a PCI card-less real estate, but probably would have to be a multi-layer PCB(4 layer at most) unless we can get a real good PCB designer, and probably a mix of SMT and through-hole technology, depending if we use a newer Z80 clone(or if we use the 75MHz Z80 clone on a FPGA!!!). But this is the one that we can avoid FCC problems with. And, we could use the PC keyboard, and peripherals to load/save Bally programs. Short of just pure emulation, this route makes a BPA available to anyone who has a PC and buys the card. It would have the usual ports on the card, except cards would be loaded through the PC, as images or a software multi-cart. Regards, Jim From ballyalley@h... Sat Nov 24 13:59:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Nov 2001 21:59:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 98353 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 21:59:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2001 21:59:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.18) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 21:59:54 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:59:54 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:59:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: On the completion of the UV-1 Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:59:54 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2001 21:59:54.0423 (UTC) FILETIME=[593FF470:01C17533] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo James says, >> Then the question is to contact Bally and find out who has the rights to the BPA and the custom chips. >> James, you have looked into this already, right? Did you ever get any leads from those letters that you forwarded to me months ago? Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Sat Nov 24 14:41:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 24 Nov 2001 22:41:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 61691 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 22:41:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2001 22:41:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.10) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 22:41:48 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:41:48 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 22:41:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 5 Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:41:48 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2001 22:41:48.0619 (UTC) FILETIME=[33D3D1B0:01C17539] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo November 24, 2001 Version 1.5 of the Nutting Manual Project has been completed. Glenn Saunders typed the text from pages 101-143, minus the diagrams (about 24 pages!). The file is called nutting.zip and is located at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ We need help to finish typing pages and creating ASCII text and/or vector diagrams. See text file at above address for more details for. Currently in progress, recently completed, or left to do: 13-20 - In Progress - Rob Mitchell 70-101 - Mike, yes or no? Contact me very soon 101-143 - Done - Thanks, Glenn! Diagrams - We need volunteers After the manual is completed, we need to tackle the ROM source. Right now, we're looking good. Thanks again to Glenn for accepting and then going beyond his assignment. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Sat Nov 24 17:26:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 25 Nov 2001 01:26:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 18952 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 01:26:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Nov 2001 01:26:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.85) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 01:26:07 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:26:07 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 01:26:06 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Arcade Games based around Astrocade chipset Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:26:06 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Nov 2001 01:26:07.0149 (UTC) FILETIME=[27F81DD0:01C17550] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo November 24, 2001 What are all of the Arcade games that make use of the Astrocade chipset? The information I find while searching for this answer usually says, "... Space Zap, Gorf, Robby Roto (and others)." Nowhere can I find "others" listed. I looked through the arcade rom and information repository at http://www.mame.dk/ and I came up with this list of six games: Seawolf II - 1978 Extra Bases - 1980 Space Zap - 1980 Wizard of Wor - 1980 Gorf - 1981 Robby Roto - 1981 Games that I had presumed used the Astrocade chipset (Dogpatch, Gunfight and 280 ZZZap!) are based around the 8080. Is this list of six arcade games all of the games based around the Astrocade chipset? This can't be all of them... Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Sat Nov 24 19:03:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 25 Nov 2001 03:02:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 70130 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 03:02:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Nov 2001 03:02:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.7) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 03:02:58 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:02:57 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 03:02:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Bally System Description = DNA Manual Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:02:57 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Nov 2001 03:02:57.0974 (UTC) FILETIME=[AF7DA560:01C1755D] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Glenn Saunders points out that the entire 63-page 'Bally System Description' manual (originally available from the Cursor group) is the same as the ‘Nutting’ Manual, pages 81-143-- but without the “Do Not Reproduce” overlays. The System Description booklet is located at: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/misc_docs/ Choose the 1.2MB file named bally_system_description.pdf and save it to your local hard drive (opening from the above location may give varying results). Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From lance@a... Sat Nov 24 20:51:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 25 Nov 2001 04:51:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 16556 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 04:51:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Nov 2001 04:51:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail33.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.23) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 04:51:10 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail33.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011125045110.DJIK27758.femail33.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:51:10 -0800 Message-ID: <3C0078F8.4050903@a...> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 23:52:08 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Simple Nutting conversion question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Adam Trionfo wrote: > In converting the Nutting Manual to text, I sometimes come across what I > don't know how to "translate." What is the proper way to write this in an > ASCII file: > > ____ __ __ ____ > MREQ, RD, M1, RFSH > > Here I used the underscore character to show exactly what is written in the > manual; I can't do this ordinarily. What is the correct way to type this? > What are these called? Lines? Would I rewrite it as: > > lines MREQ, RD, M1, RFSH > > Anyone? > > Adam > > I don't see why this wont work, as long as everything is written to allow the extra space needed for the underscores. From lance@a... Sat Nov 24 20:59:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 25 Nov 2001 04:59:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 50410 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 04:59:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Nov 2001 04:59:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.17) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 04:59:01 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011125045900.EQNH3253.femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:59:00 -0800 Message-ID: <3C007ACF.7080503@a...> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 23:59:59 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 5 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Adam Trionfo wrote: > November 24, 2001 > > Version 1.5 of the Nutting Manual Project has been completed. Glenn > Saunders typed the text from pages 101-143, minus the diagrams (about 24 > pages!). The file is called nutting.zip and is located at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ > > We need help to finish typing pages and creating ASCII text and/or vector > diagrams. See text file at above address for more details for. > > Currently in progress, recently completed, or left to do: > > 13-20 - In Progress - Rob Mitchell > 70-101 - Mike, yes or no? Contact me very soon > 101-143 - Done - Thanks, Glenn! > > Diagrams - We need volunteers > > After the manual is completed, we need to tackle the ROM source. Right now, > we're looking good. Thanks again to Glenn for accepting and then going > beyond his assignment. > > Adam Trionfo Whoo Hoo! Way to go Glenn! What's left to do? I may have some time tomorow. Unfortunatly, due to the approching season & other commitments most of my programming time will be otherwise occupied. :( I'll also have to store my Bally away till after Xmas. :( Love the Idea of the FPGA board. Will have to consider this tech on another project I'm working on....(Un-related) Lance From fmillera@p... Sat Nov 24 21:13:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 25 Nov 2001 05:13:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 41059 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 05:13:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Nov 2001 05:13:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 05:13:17 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.240.197]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GNC00EHUBU3FP@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:13:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:13:13 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Arcade Games based around Astrocade chipset In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011124211237.00aa6988@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_874797==_.ALT" From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_874797==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 05:26 PM 11/24/2001 -0800, you wrote: >November 24, 2001 > >What are all of the Arcade games that make use of the Astrocade chipset? >The information I find while searching for this answer usually says, "... >Space Zap, Gorf, Robby Roto (and others)." Nowhere can I find "others" >listed. I looked through the arcade rom and information repository at >http://www.mame.dk/ and I came up with this list of >six games: > >Seawolf II - 1978 >Extra Bases - 1980 >Space Zap - 1980 >Wizard of Wor - 1980 >Gorf - 1981 >Robby Roto - 1981 > >Games that I had presumed used the Astrocade chipset (Dogpatch, Gunfight and >280 ZZZap!) are based around the 8080. Is this list of six arcade games all >of the games based around the Astrocade chipset? Probably. The video game industry took a nosedive in 1982 Cheers, Tony Miller >This can't be all of them... > >Adam > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=812075/R=0/*http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=b17834 >9800057000> > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_874797==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 05:26 PM 11/24/2001 -0800, you wrote:
November 24, 2001

What are all of the Arcade games that make use of the Astrocade chipset? 
The information I find while searching for this answer usually says, "...
Space Zap, Gorf, Robby Roto (and others)."  Nowhere can I find "others"
listed.  I looked through the arcade rom and information repository at
http://www.mame.dk/ and I came up with this list of six games:

Seawolf II    - 1978
Extra Bases   - 1980
Space Zap     - 1980
Wizard of Wor - 1980
Gorf          - 1981
Robby Roto    - 1981

Games that I had presumed used the Astrocade chipset (Dogpatch, Gunfight and
280 ZZZap!) are based around the 8080.  Is this list of six arcade games all
of the games based around the Astrocade chipset?


Probably.  The video game industry took a nosedive in 1982

Cheers,

Tony Miller


This can't be all of them...

Adam

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--=====================_874797==_.ALT-- From fmillera@p... Sat Nov 24 21:34:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 25 Nov 2001 05:34:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 50017 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 05:34:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Nov 2001 05:34:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 05:34:24 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.240.197]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GNC00E53CT9G1@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:34:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:34:20 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: On the completion of the UV-1 In-reply-to: <9totpr+rs5k@e...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011124212704.00ad4ae8@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_2141639==_.ALT" References: <4.2.2.20011124080854.00b63260@p...> From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_2141639==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:52 PM 11/24/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Tony! > >Then the question is to contact Bally and find out who has the rights >to the BPA and the custom chips. Probably a mixed ownership-Astorcade >having the rights to the BPA, and Bally owning the rights to the >custom chips. The pinball/video games division of Bally/Midway was bought by Williams Electronics several years ago. They do business under the name WMS Industries. Williams has ceased pinball production for both the Bally and Williams brands. I believe video games (certainly games for Nintendo, etc.) are still being produced. >I would probably guess that once we do get the right point of >contact, being able to use that would come at a very reasonable fee >per unit. My own experience with TI for a 99/4A clone on a PC card >was $1 per unit sold for the complete use of the OS and GROMs. > >A motherboard replacement: only people with an exisiting console >could use it, unless someone puts the motherboard into a homebrew >case. And, of course, the slight problem of FCC and such. > >A BPA on a PCI card-less real estate, but probably would have to be a >multi-layer PCB(4 layer at most) unless we can get a real good PCB >designer, and probably a mix of SMT and through-hole technology, >depending if we use a newer Z80 clone(or if we use the 75MHz Z80 >clone on a FPGA!!!). But this is the one that we can avoid FCC >problems with. And, we could use the PC keyboard, and peripherals to >load/save Bally programs. Short of just pure emulation, this route >makes a BPA available to anyone who has a PC and buys the card. It >would have the usual ports on the card, except cards would be loaded >through the PC, as images or a software multi-cart. PCI plug-in. Good idea. We need to collectively put together a set of specifications for this proposed beastie, along with a list of group members who would be willing to: 1. Help with the work. 2. Buy one or more, at some price that covers expenses, but that's about it. Given Ward's problems selling multicarts, this may be an insurmountable hurdle. But the most important thing is to get a reasonable set of specifications to design to. For example, while composite video output may be highly desirable, it is also pretty expensive to implement. But other things like: do we stay with 2 bits/pixel? Stuff like that. Cheers, Tony Miller >Regards, > >Jim > > > > >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=812074/R=0/*http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=b15334 >0270003000> > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_2141639==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 07:52 PM 11/24/2001 +0000, you wrote:
Hi Tony!

Then the question is to contact Bally and find out who has the rights
to the BPA and the custom chips. Probably a mixed ownership-Astorcade
having the rights to the BPA, and Bally owning the rights to the
custom chips.

The pinball/video games division of Bally/Midway was bought by Williams Electronics several years ago.  They do business under the name WMS Industries.  Williams has ceased pinball production for both the Bally and Williams brands.  I believe video games (certainly games for Nintendo, etc.) are still being produced.


I would probably guess that once we do get the right point of
contact, being able to use that would come at a very reasonable fee
per unit. My own experience with TI for a 99/4A clone on a PC card
was $1 per unit sold for the complete use of the OS and GROMs.

A motherboard replacement: only people with an exisiting console
could use it, unless someone puts the motherboard into a homebrew
case. And, of course, the slight problem of FCC and such.

A BPA on a PCI card-less real estate, but probably would have to be a
multi-layer PCB(4 layer at most) unless we can get a real good PCB
designer, and probably a mix of SMT and through-hole technology,
depending if we use a newer Z80 clone(or if we use the 75MHz Z80
clone on a FPGA!!!). But this is the one that we can avoid FCC
problems with. And, we could use the PC keyboard, and peripherals to
load/save Bally programs. Short of just pure emulation, this route
makes a BPA available to anyone who has a PC and buys the card. It
would have the usual ports on the card, except cards would be loaded
through the PC, as images or a software multi-cart.

PCI plug-in.  Good idea.  We need to collectively put together a set of specifications for this proposed beastie, along with a list of group members who would be willing to:

1.      Help with the work.
2.      Buy one or more, at some price that covers expenses, but that's about it.  Given Ward's problems selling multicarts, this may be an insurmountable hurdle.

But the most important thing is to get a reasonable set of specifications to design to.  For example, while composite video output may be highly desirable, it is also pretty expensive to implement.  But other things like:  do we stay with 2 bits/pixel?  Stuff like that.

Cheers,

Tony Miller


Regards,

Jim




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--=====================_2141639==_.ALT-- From jwkrych@n... Sat Nov 24 21:41:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 25 Nov 2001 05:41:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 63781 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 05:41:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Nov 2001 05:41:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.60) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 05:41:52 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: jwkrych@n... Received: from [10.1.2.25] by n10.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Nov 2001 05:41:52 -0000 Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 05:41:52 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: On the completion of the UV-1 Message-ID: <9tq0b0+6dao@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 475 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.50.231.88 From: jwkrych@n... X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > James says, > >> > Then the question is to contact Bally and find out who has the rights > to the BPA and the custom chips. > >> > > James, you have looked into this already, right? Did you ever get any leads > from those letters that you forwarded to me months ago? > > Adam > Hi Adam! The chip manufacturer said they still belonged to Bally! I will contact Williams and go back from there. Jim From solder_guy@m... Sun Nov 25 04:57:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 25 Nov 2001 12:57:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 17416 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 12:57:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Nov 2001 12:57:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail22.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.199) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 12:57:10 -0000 Received: (from www@l...) by mail22.bigmailbox.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) id fAPCv9s20178; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 04:57:09 -0800 Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 04:57:09 -0800 Message-Id: <200111251257.fAPCv9s20178@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [166.102.175.83] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Arcade Games based around Astrocade chipset From: "solder_guy Last Name" X-Yahoo-Profile: solder_guy >>What are all of the Arcade games that make use of the Astrocade chipset?<< Maybe Tornado Baseball? Who knows? Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Sun Nov 25 06:33:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 25 Nov 2001 14:33:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 94682 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 14:33:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Nov 2001 14:33:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.211) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 14:33:37 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 06:33:37 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:33:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Arcade Games based around Astrocade chipset Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 06:33:37 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Nov 2001 14:33:37.0608 (UTC) FILETIME=[2B6FFC80:01C175BE] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo I’ve done more detailed investigation into the Arcade games, and Tornado Baseball doesn't use the Astrocade chipset. Here's further details. I’ve compiled a list of arcade games released by Midway (information from http://www.mame.dk/) from 1975-1981. I’ve marked with an ‘*’ the Astrocade chipset games (there are six). Note: Some of these games are well-known Midway licenses (Space Invaders, Galaxian, Pac-Man, others). If it was released by Midway, then it is listed here. This was not an exhaustive research project, so do not consider this list all inclusive. Title Year Chipset Information ---------------- ---- ------------------- Gunfight 1975 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Amazing Maze 1976 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Datsun 280 ZZZap 1976 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Sea wolf 1976 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Tornado Baseball 1976 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Boot Hill 1977 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Checkmate 1977 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Desert Gun 1977 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Dogpatch 1977 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Double Play 1977 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Guided Missile 1977 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Laguna Racer 1977 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) M-4 1977 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) 4 Player Bowling Alley 1978 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Blue Shark 1978 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Clowns 1978 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Extra Inning 1978 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Sea Wolf II 1978 Z80: 1.79 MHz (cpu) - Astrocade Shuffleboard 1978 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Space Invaders 1978 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Phantom II 1979 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Galaxian 1979 Z80: 3.07 MHz (cpu) Extra Bases 1980 Z80: 1.79 MHz (cpu) - Astrocade Space Encounters 1980 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Space Invaders Deluxe 1980 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Space Invaders II(CTail)1980 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) Space Zap 1980 Z80: 1.79 MHz (cpu) - Astrocade Wizard of Wor 1980 Z80: 1.79 MHz (cpu) - Astrocade Pac-Man 1980 Z80: 3.07 MHz (cpu) Rally X 1980 Z80: 3.07 MHz (cpu) Bobby Roto 1981 Z80: 1.79 MHz (cpu) - Astrocade Satan’s Hollow 1981 Z80: 2 processors Solar Fox 1981 Z80: 2 processors Gorf 1981 Z80: 1.79 MHz (cpu) - Astrocade Kick 1981 Z80: 2 processors Ms. Pac-Man 1981 Z80: 3.07 MHz (cpu) Omega Race 1981 Z80: 2 processors Bosconian 1981 Z80: 3 processors Galaga 1981 Z80: 3 processors -- Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From fmillera@p... Sun Nov 25 14:04:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 25 Nov 2001 22:04:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 7864 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 22:04:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Nov 2001 22:04:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 22:04:31 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.242.87]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GND00MWFMNHDW@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:04:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:04:28 -0800 Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Arcade Games based around Astrocade chipset In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011125135913.00ab4b70@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus At 06:33 AM 11/25/2001 -0800, you wrote: >I've done more detailed investigation into the Arcade games, and >Tornado Baseball doesn't use the Astrocade chipset. Here's further details. > >I've compiled a list of arcade games released by Midway (information from >http://www.mame.dk/) from 1975-1981. I've marked with an '*' the Astrocade >chipset games (there are six). > >Note: Some of these games are well-known Midway licenses (Space Invaders, >Galaxian, Pac-Man, others). If it was released by Midway, then it is listed >here. This was not an exhaustive research project, so do not consider this >list all inclusive. > >Title Year Chipset Information >---------------- ---- ------------------- > >Gunfight 1975 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Amazing Maze 1976 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Datsun 280 ZZZap 1976 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Sea wolf 1976 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Tornado Baseball 1976 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Boot Hill 1977 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Checkmate 1977 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Desert Gun 1977 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Dogpatch 1977 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Double Play 1977 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Guided Missile 1977 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Laguna Racer 1977 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >M-4 1977 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >4 Player Bowling Alley 1978 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Blue Shark 1978 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Clowns 1978 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Extra Inning 1978 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Sea Wolf II 1978 Z80: 1.79 MHz (cpu) - Astrocade >Shuffleboard 1978 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Space Invaders 1978 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Phantom II 1979 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Galaxian 1979 Z80: 3.07 MHz (cpu) >Extra Bases 1980 Z80: 1.79 MHz (cpu) - Astrocade >Space Encounters 1980 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Space Invaders Deluxe 1980 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Space Invaders II(CTail)1980 8080: 2.00 MHz (cpu) >Space Zap 1980 Z80: 1.79 MHz (cpu) - Astrocade >Wizard of Wor 1980 Z80: 1.79 MHz (cpu) - Astrocade >Pac-Man 1980 Z80: 3.07 MHz (cpu) >Rally X 1980 Z80: 3.07 MHz (cpu) >Bobby Roto 1981 Z80: 1.79 MHz (cpu) - Astrocade >Satan's Hollow 1981 Z80: 2 processors >Solar Fox 1981 Z80: 2 processors >Gorf 1981 Z80: 1.79 MHz (cpu) - Astrocade >Kick 1981 Z80: 2 processors >Ms. Pac-Man 1981 Z80: 3.07 MHz (cpu) >Omega Race 1981 Z80: 2 processors >Bosconian 1981 Z80: 3 processors >Galaga 1981 Z80: 3 processors A good portion of these (most if not all of the 8080-based B/W games) were done by Nutting. These include: Gunfight, Seawolf, Datsun 280ZZAP, Checkmate, etc. The hardware for these was also done by Nutting. A close inspection of the schematics will reveal discrete versions of the flopper, shifter, etc., used in the data chip. Space Invaders was a Japanese license, as was Bosconian, Galaga, etc. Another reason for the paucity of BPA-based games was the popularity of Pacman, et al, during this same period. Cheers, Tony Miller > -- Adam > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From cybpunks@h... Mon Nov 26 15:32:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 26 Nov 2001 23:32:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 47899 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 23:32:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Nov 2001 23:32:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.74) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 23:32:26 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.122] by n24.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2001 23:32:23 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:32:23 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Postgame Message-ID: <9tuje7+uq7c@e...> In-Reply-To: <9thtvs+lakq@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1147 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.77 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo --- In ballyalley@y..., meeks46@h... wrote: > That's actually the WORST of strategies. It was OVERSUPPLY of I'm not talking about having 100s of titles out there like there was for the 2600 around the time of the crash, but you've got to admit that there was a serious drought of new games for the Astrocade. 1st generation titles like Sea Wolf were not going to win over new converts to the platform. There wasn't a lot of cutting-edge stuff being written to showcase the hardware after Astrovision took over. Some obvious deficiencies in the library. I mean, while there was a port of Wizard of Wor, there wasn't a Gorf or Robby Roto to round out ports of arcade machines using the same hardware. ZGrass R&D is all well and good, but in the interim as the system stood as a dedicated games machine there had to be more bread and butter game development. If Astrovision didn't have the resources to feed the game pipeline, then you had to encourage 3rd party developers. After all, it was 3rd party tinkerers with Bally Basic who were really responsible for keeping interest in the platform alive at all in the early 80s. From cybpunks@h... Mon Nov 26 15:57:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 26 Nov 2001 23:57:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 4993 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 23:57:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Nov 2001 23:57:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.74) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 23:57:53 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.105] by n24.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2001 23:57:52 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:57:51 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Arcade Games based around Astrocade chipset Message-ID: <9tuktv+ulff@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1401 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.77 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo > Games that I had presumed used the Astrocade chipset (Dogpatch, Gunfight and > 280 ZZZap!) are based around the 8080. Is this list of six arcade games all > of the games based around the Astrocade chipset? > > This can't be all of them... That's it, I think. You'd think they would have used it more between 1977 and 1980. What I see is that all the arcade hardware is based on a similar architecture all the way back to Gunfight and it just gets refined over the years, even into the era of games like Spy Hunter and Rampage. They went from the 8080 to the Z80, added more RAM, added color, faster clock speeds, etc... but it's all based on the "MASS RAM" concept (i.e. bitmap with bit manipulation functions in hardware). The funny thing about Spy Hunter is that the sound board has a way more powerful CPU (68000) than the main system CPU (Z80). Another unique thing about this type of hardware is that, by and large, although it doesn't utilize the extra vertical resolution, it output an INTERLACED 60 field signal. This resulted in a more flickery display, but one which is easier to videotape as it's a more broadcast-legal signal. All other game machines that I know of output a nonstandard video signal that tricks the TV into a noninterlaced 60hz mode unless they were more modern systems that used the extra vertical resolution (like the Dreamcast or PS2). From cybpunks@h... Mon Nov 26 16:21:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 00:21:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 33001 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 00:21:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 00:21:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.63) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 00:21:44 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.30] by n13.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2001 00:15:17 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 00:21:43 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Simple Nutting conversion question Message-ID: <9tuman+vqdo@e...> In-Reply-To: <3C0078F8.4050903@a...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 333 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.77 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> I don't see why this wont work, as long as everything is written to allow the extra space needed for the underscores. << Depends on the context, but if you use a nonproportional font it won't line up easily, and in the context of a paragraph the extra line required for this is going to make the formatting look like crap. From cybpunks@h... Mon Nov 26 16:25:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 00:25:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 31523 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 00:25:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 00:25:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.57) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 00:25:00 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.2.23] by n7.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2001 00:24:59 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 00:24:57 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 5 Message-ID: <9tumgp+umeg@e...> In-Reply-To: <3C007ACF.7080503@a...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 544 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.77 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> Love the Idea of the FPGA board. Will have to consider this tech on another project I'm working on....(Un-related) << Personally, I think the FPGA board should be an expansion slot device that takes over the system, leaving the host system just for peripheral I/O. That way you don't have to reinvent the entire wheel. However, a motherboard replacement is a good idea too in the sense that the original hardware is notoriously unreliable. But if it were to be done, you'd HAVE to have a socket for a Votrax SC-01 speech chip. From cybpunks@h... Mon Nov 26 16:26:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 00:26:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 97788 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 00:26:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 00:26:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.70) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 00:26:20 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.118] by n20.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2001 00:22:24 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 00:26:19 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: On the completion of the UV-1 Message-ID: <9tumjb+ffla@e...> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20011124212704.00ad4ae8@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 194 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.77 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> I believe video games (certainly games for Nintendo, etc.) are still being produced. << Midway shut down its arcade division this year. Now all it has left is its home gaming division. From cybpunks@h... Mon Nov 26 17:14:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 01:14:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 9515 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 01:14:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 01:14:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.59) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 01:14:03 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.2.52] by n9.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2001 01:14:02 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:14:00 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Arcade Games based around Astrocade chipset Message-ID: <9tupco+107i@e...> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20011125135913.00ab4b70@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 339 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.77 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> Space Invaders was a Japanese license<< During my interview of him, Dave Nutting said, if I recall correctly, that the Japanese had ripped off the 8080 board and when Bally/Midway found out about it, as part of some arbitration they came up with a licensing deal to bring over the games they had designed (like Space Invaders). From meeks46@h... Mon Nov 26 17:25:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: meeks46@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 01:25:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 33271 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 01:25:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 01:25:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.53) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 01:25:14 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: meeks46@h... Received: from [10.1.10.101] by n3.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2001 01:25:13 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:25:12 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Giving the 'Shaft' to distributers Message-ID: <9tuq1o+103at@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 920 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.1.247.186 From: meeks46@h... X-Yahoo-Profile: galaxiankiller Unfortunately, "The Shaft" was exactly what I meant. You have to remember that the management of Astrocade was not NEARLY as great as the product. Many of our reps and distributers were treated pretty shabbily. Those of us that really cared about the product pinned out hopes on being purchased by a larger, nore professional corporation. --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Tom, when asked about the long-term strategy of the Astrovision, you wrote > 'to shaft our distributers and sell the company to a large toy maker.' You > don't REALLY mean this do you? I'm sure this is a typo; you mean 'shift' > and not 'shaft,' right? Giving a distributer 'the shaft' happens, but I > hope it isn't part of a business deciesion. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From meeks46@h... Mon Nov 26 17:32:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: meeks46@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 01:32:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 21448 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 01:32:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 01:32:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.81) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 01:32:58 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: meeks46@h... Received: from [10.1.10.30] by n31.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2001 01:32:58 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:32:54 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: PAL Astrocade Prototype(s) ?!? Message-ID: <9tuqg6+6mqr@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2388 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.1.247.186 From: meeks46@h... X-Yahoo-Profile: galaxiankiller The problem was the cost of memory at the time. We were estatic when we came out with an 8K game cartridge! The custom chips addressed memory in a way that made it difficult to cut costs. But, knowing BOTH the products that you mentioned I can say that the Astrocade Add-Under would DEFINITELY have been the game programmer's choice had we brought it to market. The ColecoVision was a disaster. The C-64, with it's block-graphics was also very difficult for the average person to program... especially animation. I no longer have a Datamax, having donated it to a High School many years ago when I started programming animation on the Mindset Computer. --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Tom writes > > >> > All of us that truly loved the product and believed in Tom DeFanti's > ZGrass was a wonderful language worked as hard as we could to make > the product attractive to another company... > >> > > How come Astrovision and Datamax didn't team up for one product? There is a > very sound business reason for this, but, well, what was it? > > >> > The case could have been redesigned for a sleeker look... > >> > > That wouldn't have changed the guts of the Astrocade. Would it, alone, have > cuts costs? > > >> > We were considering, for instance, a built-in drawing pad. > >> > > A-la the Koala pad? Basically, Scribbling with a new interface? Neat idea, > but something like that should be an accessory that plugs into one or two of > the joystick ports. Look at the Sega Master System; the pause button is on > the console. Rrr. > > >> > As you probably know, the Datamax UV-1 worked at the full resolution of the > custom chips. > >> > > ALL versions of it? Do you still have yours? > > >> > Had we gotten the add-under out the door in a timely fashion, it could have > really wiped out the viability of the Coleco and C-64. > >> > > What WAS the market for the new and improved Astrocade? The Colecovision > was a game console (that could turn into the Adam computer), The C- 64 was a > home computer. Both of these machines, especially the C-64, would have had > advantages over a strictly some-kind-of-Astrocade-with-64K-and-Hi- Res. > > Adam > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From meeks46@h... Mon Nov 26 17:43:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: meeks46@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 01:43:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 75700 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 01:43:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 01:43:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.74) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 01:43:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: meeks46@h... Received: from [10.1.10.133] by n24.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2001 01:43:04 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:42:59 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: PAL Astrocade Prototype(s) ?!? Message-ID: <9tur33+dqle@e...> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20011122080123.00b73dd0@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4850 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.1.247.186 From: meeks46@h... X-Yahoo-Profile: galaxiankiller Hi Tony! So, you were at DNA? Were you there when Nolan was there? I later worked for him at Axlon (sp?) on a pretty neat project with John Perkins. At any rate, you are right. Astrocade WAS a copmpletely separate company... and DNA DID hold the keys to the kingdom. And, EVERYONE was super-cooperative except one person, for whatever reason. Dave and Bob could NOT have been better... they are the reasons why our games were so good. I have NOTHING but the utmost respect for both of them. Tom had contracts to Astrocade and Dave Nutting. I was a video producer and purchased the UV-1 before going to work for Astrocade. I loved it. If you saw a working prototype in 1979 and we only got one released to us in 1981... I think you can figure out where the bottleneck was. Good to hear from you. Tom --- In ballyalley@y..., Tony Miller wrote: > At 04:12 AM 11/22/2001 +0000, you wrote: > > > But what would survival mean? > > > >Aside from the designer of the custom chips, who, in my opinion > >twarted our development at every step, the team we had assembled for > >both software and hardware was unbeatable. As you probably already > >know, we were rated #1 by Consumer Reports in the very month we filed > >for Chapter 11. That was particularly remarkable given the fact that > >we were WAY more expensive than any of the other systems and had > >fewer titles. > > Not sure about the relationship here. It sounds like Astrovision was a > totally separate group from Nutting (DNA), but DNA/Bally/Midway kept 'the > keys to the kingdom'. Correct? And by the 'designer of the custom chips > do you mean Jeff Frederiksen? > > > >As you probably know, the Datamax UV-1 worked at the full resolution > >of the custom chips. > > Was the UV-1 ever completed? > > > >Memory costs were the big problem with going > >that route. You have to realize that memory was monstrously > >expensive in those days and we were limited in the type and > >configuration we could use. In fact, the whole reason we ran at a > >lower resolution where we could use the SAME memory for the screen > >AND programs was the high cost of memory at the time. Then there was > >the fact that Astrocade could never gain control of the masks for the > >chips so that our own engineers could move it forward. > > > >Had we gotten the add-under out the door in a timely fashion, it > >could have really wiped out the viability of the Coleco and C-64. > When I left DNA in the spring of 1979, there was a completed hardware, PC, > and case design for the Add-under, with a working disk drive. Don't know > what happened after that (I went to a coin-op competitor). If you know what > happened, could you fill me in? > > > > >Even with the fewer colors per scan line (256 total) our bitmapped > >technology and the real-time animation capability of Zgrass without > >PEEKS and POKES should have had a MAJOR impact on the direction of > >future computing standards. But, unfortunately, it didn't happen. > The original Arcade could only do 8 colors/line (2 bits/pixel = 4, plus the > left/right color set registers). By 256 total do you mean the entire color > palette? Or something different? > > > > > Were there any ideas along those lines? How limited were > > > Astrovision's resources? > > > >Astrocade never really had deep pockets. That, coupled with the > >constant petty feuding among the financial principals meant that our > >only hope was to be acquired by a reputable company. If people like > >Dave Nutting, Bob Ogdon, Dr. Tom DeFanti, Jamie (Jay) Fenton, John > >Perkins and Jim McConnell had been working for someone like Fisher- > >Price or Hasbro, can you just IMAGINE what they would have been able > >to achieve! In my opinion, NO company has EVER had such a talented > >bunch of people that worked so well together. As it was, they did > >remarkable things in the face of almost insurmountable circumstances. > > > > Were Perkins and McConnell Astrovision employees or were they DNAers who > came after I left? Who were the management types at Astrovision? I had > heard that Bob Ogden had left DNA to form his own game group doing games > for the arcade. Did he become part of Astrovision? Was DeFanti ever part > of Astrovision? Did you know Larry Leske? > > >Yahoo! Groups > >Sponsor >1705006497:HM/A=812075/R=0/*http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi? a=b17834 > >9800057000> > > > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >ballyalley-unsubscribe@y... > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > >Yahoo! Terms of Service. From ward.shrake@w... Mon Nov 26 18:00:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 02:00:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 31451 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 02:00:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 02:00:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.56) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 02:00:12 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.111] by n6.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2001 02:00:11 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:00:08 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: On the completion of the UV-1 Message-ID: <9tus38+45rv@e...> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20011124212704.00ad4ae8@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2610 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.65 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., Tony Miller wrote: (snip) > PCI plug-in. Good idea. We need to collectively put > together a set of specifications for this proposed > beastie, along with a list of group members who would > be willing to: > > 1. Help with the work. > 2. Buy one or more, at some price that covers > expenses, but that's about it. Given Ward's > problems selling multicarts, this may be an > insurmountable hurdle. While I certainly agree with the statement above, I can't help but feel badly about it. If and when discussions start up about why the Astrocade boat sank (again), please remember that Ward was just a messenger. Ward was not drilling holes in the hull or setting the sails on fire, while everything else around us was 100% ship-shape!? As for myself, I am selling a (very) few multicarts, here and there. That is already taking up all of my time, so I'd be a "no" in terms of being able to help with the work for any other projects. (Sorry.) As to buying anything, again I'd have to be a "no". (Again, sorry.) My rent and other normal bills are all I can manage to pay for at present. And even that isn't easy, or a sure thing, any more. (I'm looking to ditch the acting world for awhile, and get a "real job".) Ignoring all that, I would personally put in a vote for some kind of plug-in card for a standard PC, if and when people decided to try to brainstorm up some specs for "new Astrocade" hardware. But at the same time I can't help but think that once you had something like that, that it wouldn't be much different than just running a good software emulator on the same PC... except that it would cost more? As to revising the existing motherboard, I just don't see the point. The known problems with inadequate cooling seem to be largely solved just by removing the tank-like RF sheilding inside, and adding taller feet. I'm sure a Pentium-cooling fan mounted inside the case would be more than enough to do the rest of the job of cooling the unit? Strange world we live in, eh? It wasn't too many years ago, when I was archiving VIC-20 cartridges for the imagined half-a-dozen of us that would use them to burn our own chips and play them that way, that someone first told me about emulation. "Get out of town" would be a polite way of expressing my disbelief of that news. But hey, I'm a believer now! MAME, MESS, and various stand-alone emulators *rock*! ...he says, ducking out before he's burned as a heretic! Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From meeks46@h... Mon Nov 26 18:04:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: meeks46@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 02:04:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 53791 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 02:04:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 02:04:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.72) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 02:04:57 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: meeks46@h... Received: from [10.1.10.93] by n22.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2001 02:04:56 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:04:55 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Postgame Message-ID: <9tusc7+vnjc@e...> In-Reply-To: <9tuje7+uq7c@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2819 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.1.247.186 From: meeks46@h... X-Yahoo-Profile: galaxiankiller I acn't argue with the fact that we didn't get the good cartridges out into the pipeline in a timely manner. But, it was a marketing deficiency. Bob Ogdon's (DNA) crew did a great job of coming up with new titles with few bugs... and, almost all the new titles that hit the streets sailed through the retail channels. Could there have been more? Sure. But, that isn't what sent us under. The ZGrass development was done on a completely separate path from the cartridge games. Dr. Tom DeFanti's group had that task while Bog Ogdon's team concentrated on cartridges. Robby Roto, BTW, wasn't created until just before we filed for Chapter 11. While in development, it was THE most fun game I have ever played. Unfortunately, the Midway brass force DNA to change it so that it played shorter... and, it absolutely ruined the game. The game released to the field was, to me, only a poor shadow of what it had been in the latter stages of development. If anyone could find THAT code then they would really have something. Third parties, like John Perkins and some others DID create games and were welcomed by us. The problem was having a suitable development system. DNA had created a proprietary system based on the UV-1 box; but, almost all the 3rd party people were hand assembling their code. That's a VERY time consuming process. My contact with our users and 3rd party developers had to be among the highlights of my time at Astrocade. All of them were 1st class and I still have fond memories of all of them. Tom --- In ballyalley@y..., "Glenn Saunders" wrote: > --- In ballyalley@y..., meeks46@h... wrote: > > That's actually the WORST of strategies. It was OVERSUPPLY of > > I'm not talking about having 100s of titles out there like there was > for the 2600 around the time of the crash, but you've got to admit > that there was a serious drought of new games for the Astrocade. 1st > generation titles like Sea Wolf were not going to win over new > converts to the platform. There wasn't a lot of cutting-edge stuff > being written to showcase the hardware after Astrovision took over. > Some obvious deficiencies in the library. I mean, while there was a > port of Wizard of Wor, there wasn't a Gorf or Robby Roto to round out > ports of arcade machines using the same hardware. > > ZGrass R&D is all well and good, but in the interim as the system > stood as a dedicated games machine there had to be more bread and > butter game development. > > If Astrovision didn't have the resources to feed the game pipeline, > then you had to encourage 3rd party developers. After all, it was > 3rd party tinkerers with Bally Basic who were really responsible for > keeping interest in the platform alive at all in the early 80s. From meeks46@h... Mon Nov 26 18:12:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: meeks46@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 02:12:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 26551 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 02:12:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 02:12:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.53) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 02:12:51 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: meeks46@h... Received: from [10.1.2.230] by n3.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2001 02:12:44 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:12:39 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Arcade Games based around Astrocade chipset Message-ID: <9tusqn+q59m@e...> In-Reply-To: <9tuktv+ulff@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 991 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.1.247.186 From: meeks46@h... X-Yahoo-Profile: galaxiankiller The familiar 'hammer' shape in the sync was what caused me to buy my first Bally Professional Arcade in 1979. That told me that it was 2- 1 interlace and could be used as a titler and to animate my video tapes. The Mindset Game Computer also used Broadcast Interlaced Video. In fact, it took external sync and had video overlay capability! I'm amazed that there aren't groups similar to this one creating games for the Mindset. > Another unique thing about this type of hardware is that, by and > large, although it doesn't utilize the extra vertical resolution, it > output an INTERLACED 60 field signal. This resulted in a more > flickery display, but one which is easier to videotape as it's a more > broadcast-legal signal. > > All other game machines that I know of output a nonstandard video > signal that tricks the TV into a noninterlaced 60hz mode unless they > were more modern systems that used the extra vertical resolution > (like the Dreamcast or PS2). From lance@a... Mon Nov 26 18:49:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 02:49:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 87322 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 02:49:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 02:49:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail40.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.34) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 02:49:35 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail40.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011127024934.PSEK13383.femail40.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:49:34 -0800 Message-ID: <3C02FF75.6060508@a...> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:50:29 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Arcade Games based around Astrocade chipset References: <9tusqn+q59m@e...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian meeks46@h... wrote: > I'm > amazed that there aren't groups similar to this one creating games > for the Mindset. > Never heard of it.... Tell us more! :) Lance From fmillera@p... Mon Nov 26 18:53:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 02:53:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 20409 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 02:53:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 02:53:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.240) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 02:53:13 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.242.209]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GNF008ONUON8C@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:53:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:53:09 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Arcade Games based around Astrocade chipset In-reply-to: <9tuktv+ulff@e...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011126184950.00aa66f8@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_688550==_.ALT" References: From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_688550==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:57 PM 11/26/2001 +0000, you wrote: > > Games that I had presumed used the Astrocade chipset (Dogpatch, >Gunfight and > > 280 ZZZap!) are based around the 8080. Is this list of six arcade >games all > > of the games based around the Astrocade chipset? > > > > This can't be all of them... > >That's it, I think. You'd think they would have used it more between >1977 and 1980. > >What I see is that all the arcade hardware is based on a similar >architecture all the way back to Gunfight and it just gets refined >over the years, even into the era of games like Spy Hunter and >Rampage. They went from the 8080 to the Z80, added more RAM, added >color, faster clock speeds, etc... but it's all based on the "MASS >RAM" concept (i.e. bitmap with bit manipulation functions in >hardware). The funny thing about Spy Hunter is that the sound board >has a way more powerful CPU (68000) than the main system CPU (Z80). > >Another unique thing about this type of hardware is that, by and >large, although it doesn't utilize the extra vertical resolution, it >output an INTERLACED 60 field signal. This resulted in a more >flickery display, but one which is easier to videotape as it's a more >broadcast-legal signal. I would submit that the main reason for using interlaced video is that it made it possible to use cheap 19" tv monitors which were basically TV sets with the tuner, video IF, chroma demodulation etc removed. In fact, the first Midway color games used Zenith monitors which were built as normal TVs by Zenith, then run through another line to remove the above circuitry. Specialized monitors for video games didn't come out until later, when Electrohome and Wells-Gardner discovered there was money to be made in providing a specialized version of their 'vanilla' TV sets. Cheers, Tony Miller >All other game machines that I know of output a nonstandard video >signal that tricks the TV into a noninterlaced 60hz mode unless they >were more modern systems that used the extra vertical resolution >(like the Dreamcast or PS2). > > > > >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=812075/R=0/*http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=b17834 >9800057000> > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_688550==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 11:57 PM 11/26/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> Games that I had presumed used the Astrocade chipset (Dogpatch,
Gunfight and
> 280 ZZZap!) are based around the 8080.  Is this list of six arcade
games all
> of the games based around the Astrocade chipset?
>
> This can't be all of them...

That's it, I think.  You'd think they would have used it more between
1977 and 1980.

What I see is that all the arcade hardware is based on a similar
architecture all the way back to Gunfight and it just gets refined
over the years, even into the era of games like Spy Hunter and
Rampage.  They went from the 8080 to the Z80, added more RAM, added
color, faster clock speeds, etc... but it's all based on the "MASS
RAM" concept (i.e. bitmap with bit manipulation functions in
hardware).  The funny thing about Spy Hunter is that the sound board
has a way more powerful CPU (68000) than the main system CPU (Z80).

Another unique thing about this type of hardware is that, by and
large, although it doesn't utilize the extra vertical resolution, it
output an INTERLACED 60 field signal.  This resulted in a more
flickery display, but one which is easier to videotape as it's a more
broadcast-legal signal.

I would submit that the main reason for using interlaced video is that it made it possible to use cheap 19" tv monitors which were basically TV sets with the tuner, video IF, chroma demodulation etc removed.  In fact, the first Midway color games used Zenith monitors which were built as normal TVs by Zenith, then run through another line to remove the above circuitry. Specialized monitors for video games didn't come out until later, when Electrohome and Wells-Gardner discovered there was money to be made in providing a specialized version of their 'vanilla' TV sets.

Cheers,

Tony Miller


All other game machines that I know of output a nonstandard video
signal that tricks the TV into a noninterlaced 60hz mode unless they
were more modern systems that used the extra vertical resolution
(like the Dreamcast or PS2).




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--=====================_688550==_.ALT-- From fmillera@p... Mon Nov 26 18:55:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 02:55:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 66642 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 02:55:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 02:55:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.240) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 02:55:46 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.242.209]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GNF00C1AUSVQU@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:55:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:55:41 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 5 In-reply-to: <9tumgp+umeg@e...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011126185347.00aadcd0@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_840989==_.ALT" References: <3C007ACF.7080503@a...> From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_840989==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:24 AM 11/27/2001 +0000, you wrote: > >> >Love the Idea of the FPGA board. Will have to consider this tech on >another project I'm working on....(Un-related) ><< > >Personally, I think the FPGA board should be an expansion slot device >that takes over the system, leaving the host system just for >peripheral I/O. That way you don't have to reinvent the entire wheel. > >However, a motherboard replacement is a good idea too in the sense >that the original hardware is notoriously unreliable. But if it were >to be done, you'd HAVE to have a socket for a Votrax SC-01 speech >chip. Another requirement would be to use currently available DRAM (i.e., SDRAM), since there are very few classical DRAMs available any more. Since even the smallest SDRAM is huge by BPA standards, it could replace the entire address space (with the attendant reduction in performance) or contain a plethora of addressable (by the Z80) screen images. Cheers, Tony Miller >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=812074/R=0/*http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=b15334 >0270003000> > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_840989==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 12:24 AM 11/27/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>>
Love the Idea of the FPGA board. Will have to consider this tech on
another project I'm working on....(Un-related)
<<

Personally, I think the FPGA board should be an expansion slot device
that takes over the system, leaving the host system just for
peripheral I/O.  That way you don't have to reinvent the entire wheel.

However, a motherboard replacement is a good idea too in the sense
that the original hardware is notoriously unreliable.  But if it were
to be done, you'd HAVE to have a socket for a Votrax SC-01 speech
chip.

Another requirement would be to use currently available DRAM (i.e., SDRAM), since there are very few classical DRAMs available any more.  Since even the smallest SDRAM is huge by BPA standards, it could replace the entire address space (with the attendant reduction in performance) or contain a plethora of addressable (by the Z80) screen images.

Cheers,

Tony Miller






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--=====================_840989==_.ALT-- From fmillera@p... Mon Nov 26 19:07:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 03:07:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 15298 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 03:07:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 03:07:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.240) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 03:07:17 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.242.209]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GNF0080AVC0AR@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:07:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:07:09 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: PAL Astrocade Prototype(s) ?!? In-reply-to: <9tur33+dqle@e...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011126185707.00ab8770@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1530040==_.ALT" References: <4.2.2.20011122080123.00b73dd0@p...> From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_1530040==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 01:42 AM 11/27/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Tony! So, you were at DNA? Were you there when Nolan was there? No, I was there after he left to go on to greater things/ >I later worked for him at Axlon (sp?) on a pretty neat project with >John Perkins. > >At any rate, you are right. Astrocade WAS a copmpletely separate >company... and DNA DID hold the keys to the kingdom. And, EVERYONE >was super-cooperative except one person, for whatever reason. Dave >and Bob could NOT have been better... they are the reasons why our >games were so good. I have NOTHING but the utmost respect for both >of them. > >Tom had contracts to Astrocade and Dave Nutting. > >I was a video producer and purchased the UV-1 before going to work >for Astrocade. I loved it. > >If you saw a working prototype in 1979 and we only got one released >to us in 1981... I think you can figure out where the bottleneck >was. I not only saw a working prototype but I was the hardware design engineer on the project. We showed it at the Winter 1979 CES in Vegas, and it was very well received. Jamie (at the time, Jay) and I went out there to help. I did the set-up and support, while Jay did the demos. We met a couple of young lovelies from the RF Modulator manufacturer... but that's another story. Anyway, when I left DNA, I spirited an Add-Under out, along with a Micropolis disk drive we had interfaced to it. Unfortunately, they both disappeared (along with the BPA they sat under) when I moved to San Diego. I would assume the bottleneck you refer to was the gentleman named below (Jeff who?). Am I correct? Was the one released to you in '81 the upper photo in Lance's website? This is the one I worked on. The lower one must have been done by someone else. I know that the original guy assigned the project (Larry Leske) quit to join Zilog, after which I was assigned to get the prototype working and productize it. Many of Larry's nifty audio features disappeared along the way. After I left, Larry came back to work with Tom DeFanti (Larry is the guy who hooked Tom up with DNA. Larry was a student of Tom's at UICC). But I dont't know exactly what happened after that. I'll have to give him a call and nail him down on the whole subject. Again, were Perkins & McConnell from DNA or from Astrovision? Cheers, Tony Miller >Good to hear from you. > > Tom > >--- In ballyalley@y..., Tony Miller wrote: > > At 04:12 AM 11/22/2001 +0000, you wrote: > > > > But what would survival mean? > > > > > >Aside from the designer of the custom chips, who, in my opinion > > >twarted our development at every step, the team we had assembled >for > > >both software and hardware was unbeatable. As you probably already > > >know, we were rated #1 by Consumer Reports in the very month we >filed > > >for Chapter 11. That was particularly remarkable given the fact >that > > >we were WAY more expensive than any of the other systems and had > > >fewer titles. > > > > Not sure about the relationship here. It sounds like Astrovision >was a > > totally separate group from Nutting (DNA), but DNA/Bally/Midway >kept 'the > > keys to the kingdom'. Correct? And by the 'designer of the custom >chips > > do you mean Jeff Frederiksen? > > > > > > >As you probably know, the Datamax UV-1 worked at the full >resolution > > >of the custom chips. > > > > Was the UV-1 ever completed? > > > > > > >Memory costs were the big problem with going > > >that route. You have to realize that memory was monstrously > > >expensive in those days and we were limited in the type and > > >configuration we could use. In fact, the whole reason we ran at a > > >lower resolution where we could use the SAME memory for the screen > > >AND programs was the high cost of memory at the time. Then there >was > > >the fact that Astrocade could never gain control of the masks for >the > > >chips so that our own engineers could move it forward. > > > > > >Had we gotten the add-under out the door in a timely fashion, it > > >could have really wiped out the viability of the Coleco and C-64. > > When I left DNA in the spring of 1979, there was a completed >hardware, PC, > > and case design for the Add-under, with a working disk drive. >Don't know > > what happened after that (I went to a coin-op competitor). If you >know what > > happened, could you fill me in? > > > > > > > > >Even with the fewer colors per scan line (256 total) our bitmapped > > >technology and the real-time animation capability of Zgrass without > > >PEEKS and POKES should have had a MAJOR impact on the direction of > > >future computing standards. But, unfortunately, it didn't happen. > > The original Arcade could only do 8 colors/line (2 bits/pixel = 4, >plus the > > left/right color set registers). By 256 total do you mean the >entire color > > palette? Or something different? > > > > > > > > Were there any ideas along those lines? How limited were > > > > Astrovision's resources? > > > > > >Astrocade never really had deep pockets. That, coupled with the > > >constant petty feuding among the financial principals meant that >our > > >only hope was to be acquired by a reputable company. If people >like > > >Dave Nutting, Bob Ogdon, Dr. Tom DeFanti, Jamie (Jay) Fenton, John > > >Perkins and Jim McConnell had been working for someone like Fisher- > > >Price or Hasbro, can you just IMAGINE what they would have been >able > > >to achieve! In my opinion, NO company has EVER had such a talented > > >bunch of people that worked so well together. As it was, they did > > >remarkable things in the face of almost insurmountable >circumstances. > > > > > > > Were Perkins and McConnell Astrovision employees or were they >DNAers who > > came after I left? Who were the management types at Astrovision? >I had > > heard that Bob Ogden had left DNA to form his own game group doing >games > > for the arcade. Did he become part of Astrovision? Was DeFanti >ever part > > of Astrovision? Did you know Larry Leske? > > > > >Yahoo! Groups > > > >Sponsor<ht > tp://rd.yahoo.com/M=212180.1701098.3252983.1269402/D=egroup >web/S= > > >1705006497:HM/A=812075/R=0/*ht > tp://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi? >a=b17834 > > >9800057000> > > > > > >Have you checked ><http://www.ballyalley.com>http://www.ballyalley >.com lately? > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > >ballyalley-unsubscribe@y... > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Y > ahoo! Terms of Service. > > >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=812074/R=0/*http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=b15334 >0270003000> > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_1530040==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 01:42 AM 11/27/2001 +0000, you wrote:
Hi Tony!  So, you were at DNA?  Were you there when Nolan was there?


No, I was there after he left to go on to greater things/


I later worked for him at Axlon (sp?) on a pretty neat project with
John Perkins.

At any rate, you are right. Astrocade WAS a copmpletely separate
company... and DNA DID hold the keys to the kingdom.  And, EVERYONE
was super-cooperative except one person, for whatever reason.  Dave
and Bob could NOT have been better... they are the reasons why our
games were so good.  I have NOTHING but the utmost respect for both
of them.

Tom had contracts to Astrocade and Dave Nutting.

I was a video producer and purchased the UV-1 before going to work
for Astrocade.  I loved it.

If you saw a working prototype in 1979 and we only got one released
to us in 1981... I think you can figure out where the bottleneck
was.  <g>


I not only saw a working prototype but I was the hardware design engineer on the project.  We showed it at the Winter 1979 CES in Vegas, and it was very well received.  Jamie (at the time, Jay) and I went out there to help.  I did the set-up and support, while Jay did the demos.  We met a couple of young lovelies from the RF Modulator manufacturer... but that's another story.  Anyway, when I left DNA, I spirited an Add-Under out, along with a Micropolis disk drive we had interfaced to it.  Unfortunately, they both disappeared (along with the BPA they sat under) when I moved to San Diego.

I would assume the bottleneck you refer to was the gentleman named below (Jeff who?). Am I correct?  Was the one released to you in '81 the upper photo in Lance's website?  This is the one I worked on.  The lower one must have been done by someone else.  I know that the original guy assigned the project (Larry Leske) quit to join Zilog, after which I was assigned to get the prototype working and productize it.  Many of Larry's nifty audio features disappeared along the way.  After I left, Larry came back to work with Tom DeFanti (Larry is the guy who hooked Tom up with DNA.  Larry was a student of Tom's at UICC).  But I dont't know exactly what happened after that.  I'll have to give him a call and nail him down on the whole subject.

Again, were Perkins & McConnell from DNA or from Astrovision?

Cheers,

Tony Miller


Good to hear from you.

  Tom

--- In ballyalley@y..., Tony Miller <fmillera@p...> wrote:
> At 04:12 AM 11/22/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> > > But what would survival mean?
> >
> >Aside from the designer of the custom chips, who, in my opinion
> >twarted our development at every step, the team we had assembled
for
> >both software and hardware was unbeatable.  As you probably already
> >know, we were rated #1 by Consumer Reports in the very month we
filed
> >for Chapter 11.  That was particularly remarkable given the fact
that
> >we were WAY more expensive than any of the other systems and had
> >fewer titles.
>
> Not sure about the relationship here.  It sounds like Astrovision
was a
> totally separate group from Nutting (DNA), but DNA/Bally/Midway
kept 'the
> keys to the kingdom'.  Correct?  And by the 'designer of the custom
chips
> do you mean Jeff Frederiksen?
>
>
> >As you probably know, the Datamax UV-1 worked at the full
resolution
> >of the custom chips.
>
> Was the UV-1 ever completed?
>
>
> >Memory costs were the big problem with going
> >that route.  You have to realize that memory was monstrously
> >expensive in those days and we were limited in the type and
> >configuration we could use.  In fact, the whole reason we ran at a
> >lower resolution where we could use the SAME memory for the screen
> >AND programs was the high cost of memory at the time.  Then there
was
> >the fact that Astrocade could never gain control of the masks for
the
> >chips so that our own engineers could move it forward.
> >
> >Had we gotten the add-under out the door in a timely fashion, it
> >could have really wiped out the viability of the Coleco and C-64.
> When I left DNA in the spring of 1979, there was a completed
hardware, PC,
> and case design for the Add-under, with a working disk drive. 
Don't know
> what happened after that (I went to a coin-op competitor). If you
know what
> happened, could you fill me in?
>
>
>
> >Even with the fewer colors per scan line (256 total) our bitmapped
> >technology and the real-time animation capability of Zgrass without
> >PEEKS and POKES should have had a MAJOR impact on the direction of
> >future computing standards.  But, unfortunately, it didn't happen.
> The original Arcade could only do 8 colors/line (2 bits/pixel = 4,
plus the
> left/right color set registers).  By 256 total do you mean the
entire color
> palette?  Or something different?
>
>
> > > Were there any ideas along those lines?  How limited were
> > > Astrovision's resources?
> >
> >Astrocade never really had deep pockets.  That, coupled with the
> >constant petty feuding among the financial principals meant that
our
> >only hope was to be acquired by a reputable company.  If people
like
> >Dave Nutting, Bob Ogdon, Dr. Tom DeFanti, Jamie (Jay) Fenton, John
> >Perkins and Jim McConnell had been working for someone like Fisher-
> >Price or Hasbro, can you just IMAGINE what they would have been
able
> >to achieve!  In my opinion, NO company has EVER had such a talented
> >bunch of people that worked so well together.  As it was, they did
> >remarkable things in the face of almost insurmountable
circumstances.
> >
>
> Were Perkins and McConnell Astrovision employees or were they
DNAers who
> came after I left?  Who were the management types at Astrovision? 
I had
> heard that Bob Ogden had left DNA to form his own game group doing
games
> for the arcade.  Did he become part of Astrovision?  Was DeFanti
ever part
> of Astrovision?  Did you know Larry Leske?
>
> >Yahoo! Groups
>
>Sponsor<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=212180.1701098.3252983.1269402/D=egroup
web/S=
> >1705006497:HM/A=812075/R=0/*http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?
a=b17834
> >9800057000>
> >
> >Have you checked
<http://www.ballyalley.com>http://www.ballyalley.com lately?
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >ballyalley-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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--=====================_1530040==_.ALT-- From fmillera@p... Mon Nov 26 19:40:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 03:40:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 92633 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 03:40:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 03:40:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 03:40:09 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.242.209]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GNF00G3NWUTAD@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:40:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:40:02 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: On the completion of the UV-1 In-reply-to: <9tus38+45rv@e...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011126193752.00abac08@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_3503017==_.ALT" References: <4.2.2.20011124212704.00ad4ae8@p...> From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_3503017==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:00 AM 11/27/2001 +0000, you wrote: >--- In ballyalley@y..., Tony Miller wrote: >(snip) > > PCI plug-in. Good idea. We need to collectively put > > together a set of specifications for this proposed > > beastie, along with a list of group members who would > > be willing to: > > > > 1. Help with the work. > > 2. Buy one or more, at some price that covers > > expenses, but that's about it. Given Ward's > > problems selling multicarts, this may be an > > insurmountable hurdle. > >While I certainly agree with the statement above, I can't help but >feel badly about it. If and when discussions start up about why the >Astrocade boat sank (again), please remember that Ward was just a >messenger. Ward was not drilling holes in the hull or setting the >sails on fire, while everything else around us was 100% ship-shape!? Ward; Didn't intend to make any representations regarding your multi-cart, I was just using the multi-cart as an example of the devoted-ness (is that a word?) of the BPA following. OTOH, there must be many out there who know nothing of this group, and once informed, will be glad to ante-up whatever bucks are required to get a multi-cart and/or a FPGA thingy. Cheers, Tony Miller >As for myself, I am selling a (very) few multicarts, here and there. >That is already taking up all of my time, so I'd be a "no" in terms >of being able to help with the work for any other projects. (Sorry.) > >As to buying anything, again I'd have to be a "no". (Again, sorry.) >My rent and other normal bills are all I can manage to pay for at >present. And even that isn't easy, or a sure thing, any more. (I'm >looking to ditch the acting world for awhile, and get a "real job".) > >Ignoring all that, I would personally put in a vote for some kind of >plug-in card for a standard PC, if and when people decided to try to >brainstorm up some specs for "new Astrocade" hardware. But at the >same time I can't help but think that once you had something like >that, that it wouldn't be much different than just running a good >software emulator on the same PC... except that it would cost more? > >As to revising the existing motherboard, I just don't see the point. >The known problems with inadequate cooling seem to be largely solved >just by removing the tank-like RF sheilding inside, and adding taller >feet. I'm sure a Pentium-cooling fan mounted inside the case would be >more than enough to do the rest of the job of cooling the unit? > >Strange world we live in, eh? It wasn't too many years ago, when I >was archiving VIC-20 cartridges for the imagined half-a-dozen of us >that would use them to burn our own chips and play them that way, >that someone first told me about emulation. "Get out of town" would >be a polite way of expressing my disbelief of that news. But hey, I'm >a believer now! MAME, MESS, and various stand-alone emulators *rock*! > >...he says, ducking out before he's burned as a heretic! > >Ward Shrake >Multicart >FAQ: >http://classicgaming.com/arc >adia/multifaq.htm > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=812074/R=0/*http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=b15334 >0270003000> > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_3503017==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 02:00 AM 11/27/2001 +0000, you wrote:
--- In ballyalley@y..., Tony Miller <fmillera@p...> wrote:
(snip)
> PCI plug-in.  Good idea.  We need to collectively put
> together a set of specifications for this proposed
> beastie, along with a list of group members who would
> be willing to:
>
> 1.      Help with the work.
> 2.      Buy one or more, at some price that covers
>         expenses, but that's about it. Given Ward's
>         problems selling multicarts, this may be an
>         insurmountable hurdle.

While I certainly agree with the statement above, I can't help but
feel badly about it. If and when discussions start up about why the
Astrocade boat sank (again), please remember that Ward was just a
messenger. Ward was not drilling holes in the hull or setting the
sails on fire, while everything else around us was 100% ship-shape!?


Ward;

Didn't intend to make any representations regarding your multi-cart, I was just using the multi-cart as an example of the devoted-ness (is that a word?) of the BPA following.  OTOH, there must be many out there who know nothing of this group, and once informed, will be glad to ante-up whatever bucks are required to get a multi-cart and/or a FPGA thingy.

Cheers,

Tony Miller


As for myself, I am selling a (very) few multicarts, here and there.
That is already taking up all of my time, so I'd be a "no" in terms
of being able to help with the work for any other projects. (Sorry.)

As to buying anything, again I'd have to be a "no". (Again, sorry.)
My rent and other normal bills are all I can manage to pay for at
present. And even that isn't easy, or a sure thing, any more. (I'm
looking to ditch the acting world for awhile, and get a "real job".)

Ignoring all that, I would personally put in a vote for some kind of
plug-in card for a standard PC, if and when people decided to try to
brainstorm up some specs for "new Astrocade" hardware. But at the
same time I can't help but think that once you had something like
that, that it wouldn't be much different than just running a good
software emulator on the same PC... except that it would cost more?

As to revising the existing motherboard, I just don't see the point.
The known problems with inadequate cooling seem to be largely solved
just by removing the tank-like RF sheilding inside, and adding taller
feet. I'm sure a Pentium-cooling fan mounted inside the case would be
more than enough to do the rest of the job of cooling the unit?

Strange world we live in, eh? It wasn't too many years ago, when I
was archiving VIC-20 cartridges for the imagined half-a-dozen of us
that would use them to burn our own chips and play them that way,
that someone first told me about emulation. "Get out of town" would
be a polite way of expressing my disbelief of that news. But hey, I'm
a believer now! MAME, MESS, and various stand-alone emulators *rock*!

...he says, ducking out before he's burned as a heretic!

Ward Shrake
Multicart FAQ:   http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm






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--=====================_3503017==_.ALT-- From ballyalley@h... Mon Nov 26 21:44:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 05:44:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 81755 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 05:44:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 05:44:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.165) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 05:44:54 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:44:54 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 05:44:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Arcade Games based around Astrocade chipset Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:44:54 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Nov 2001 05:44:54.0723 (UTC) FILETIME=[A3F36130:01C17706] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >> I'm amazed that there aren't groups similar to this one creating games for the Mindset. >> I'm thinking of a system called the Mindset (83-ish era) that had VERY limited release. If the system you mention was IBM-ish compatible, and had excellent graphics when the PC only did green-screen, then this might be the same beast. Anyhow, if this IS the mindset, then we are talking about a machine with probably less than two-thousand distributed. That's why no one is creating games for that machine. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ward.shrake@w... Mon Nov 26 23:59:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 07:59:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 61558 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 07:59:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 07:59:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.59) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 07:59:01 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.95] by n9.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2001 07:59:01 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:59:00 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RAM sources, cheap prices Message-ID: <9tvh44+iv6q@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1740 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.68.70 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan Just throwing in my two cents again and hoping minimum buy-in isn't a nickel or higher.... One source for things like really old RAM, outdated chips are people that supply the "old arcade game" hobby with spare parts. Bob Roberts runs a web site that sells all sorts of components for arcade machines of the era we're talking about: http://personal.msy.bellsouth.net/msy/b/o/bob147/ He has 2114 ($2.50 each) and 4116 ($1.25 each) memory chips listed there, along with many others. One reason I'm bringing this up is that I talked to Mike White from Ohio tonight, on the phone. He told me that there is an article in the Arcadian (Volume 4, page 17) that allegedly gives a block diagram of some sort, showing how to make a cheap/simple RAM expander for the Bally. It said it mostly used two 2114 chips, a 7430, and a 7404 chip, if he recalls correctly? All very common and cheap parts now. Since one of the primary stated goals of this group is to be able to make an el-cheapo RAM expander for the system, I figured I'd throw this out to the crowd and see what happens? ...and one of my main reasons for wanting to do that are all these neat-sounding "new" games that Mike White just sent me ROMs of, some of which need expansion memory to work properly. He told me that a lot of games will run fine on just 4k of added RAM, and that 8k will do the bulk of games originally available as either carts or tapes. (The Vipersoft wants something like 32k, but its the exception.) Heehee... pitiful when the guy making the multicarts can't even play some of the new games that are about to be on it, 'cause he has an unexpanded machine!? ;-) Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Tue Nov 27 01:17:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 09:17:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 3599 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 09:17:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 09:17:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.66) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 09:17:25 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.30] by n16.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2001 09:17:00 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:17:22 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: On the completion of the UV-1 Message-ID: <9tvln2+e3ht@e...> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20011126193752.00abac08@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3536 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.68.70 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., Tony Miller wrote: (snip) > Ward; > > Didn't intend to make any representations regarding your > multi-cart, I was just using the multi-cart as an example > of the devoted-ness (is that a word?) of the BPA following. Believe me, I didn't take anything badly in regards to your prior post, Tony. In fact, I liked it quite a bit. I was just being a bit silly at my own expense when I replied to it. (What was that line from the movie "Airplane"... "Bad day to quit sniffing glue?") I guess I'm just in a good / silly mood, lately? Now that I'm sort of out of the pre-production phases of the multicart(s), I'm hitting a phase that other homebrew cart guys told me to expect: where people are starting to see actual output showing up in their mailboxes, so they seem much happier about things at that point. And that good vibe tends to spread? Hopefully, things keep going in a positive vein. Also, I got some "new" games in from Mike White in Ohio, that have me drooling. Can't wait to read them in -- hard to call it archiving them when they're sent to you as programmed EPROMs -- and see them? [Blatant, self-defeating plug on] Anyone that doesn't already know about Mike's catalog, should check out Adam Trionfo's "BallyAlley" web site, in the catalog section. He can make custom single cart copies of anything he has ROM image access to, which is pretty much everything anyone has ever heard of. [Blatant plug off] > OTOH, there must be many out there who know nothing of > this group, and once informed, will be glad to ante-up > whatever bucks are required to get a multi-cart and/or > a FPGA thingy. Agreed; I'm sure the ball is just now beginning to really roll? Actually, I've been sort of intentionally under-promoting both of my multicarts anywhere but on this group, to sort of give myself time to get things up to speed. I didn't want massive problems in sorting out the inevitable problems in any one-man project, while also trying to meet a demand that I was nowhere ready to meet. If nothing else, I wanted to be sure people would feel they were getting their money's worth, so this was as "win-win" a situation as anyone can expect? (The feedback on how it works and looks has been very good, so far.) Still, I'll be a bit surprised if I get mobbed with future orders? I kind of think that will only happen if a major magazine prints an article about it. (But then again, that might shut me down just as fast, if anyone complains about the ROM contents of the multicart?) For now, I'm happy meeting the demand I have. When that is filled I may go out bugging other people, trying to drum up more customers? I was joking with Mike White on the phone tonight, quite a bit. He was gently teasing me for having messed up so many of my earlier ROM image dumps. (Some were off by a whopping one byte, and might have just legitimately been a different version of the same software.) I countered that by saying that some of the vaporware products that never quite got into the public's hands, were supposedly released in numbers like five total units shipped worldwide. I told Mike that all I technically had to do was ship out six working units, and I would officially have "beaten" some of the third-party companies!? I have a dozen new Bally multicart PC boards etched now, so that's do-able. I'm still not sure if I should be laughing or crying over it, though? Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Tue Nov 27 07:09:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 15:09:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 89487 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 15:09:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 15:09:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.123) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 15:09:30 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:09:30 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:09:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: On the completion of the UV-1 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:09:29 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Nov 2001 15:09:30.0108 (UTC) FILETIME=[8340EBC0:01C17755] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Ward says: >> I countered that by saying that some of the vaporware products that never quite got into the public's hands, were supposedly released in numbers like five total units shipped worldwide. I told Mike that all I technically had to do was ship out six working units, and I would officially have "beaten" some of the third-party companies!? I have a dozen new Bally multicart PC boards etched now, so that's do-able. >> Interesting, even with the handful of multicarts Ward has made, it could be considered common because it is still in "production" and easily available for purchase. Since I've got one, Ward might as well stop making them... [wink] Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From cybpunks@h... Tue Nov 27 10:29:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 18:29:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 31148 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 18:29:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 18:29:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.74) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 18:29:18 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.4.76] by n24.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2001 18:29:17 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:29:17 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Postgame Message-ID: <9u0m1t+v464@e...> In-Reply-To: <9tusc7+vnjc@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 182 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.77 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> If anyone could find THAT code then they would really have something. << J Fenton released the ROM images for Mame, so probably still has the source, including older builds. From cybpunks@h... Tue Nov 27 10:34:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Nov 2001 18:34:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 41716 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 18:34:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2001 18:34:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.61) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 18:34:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.2.101] by n11.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2001 18:34:16 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:34:13 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Arcade Games based around Astrocade chipset Message-ID: <9u0mb5+78bu@e...> In-Reply-To: <9tusqn+q59m@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 292 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.77 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> The Mindset Game Computer also used Broadcast Interlaced Video. In fact, it took external sync and had video overlay capability! I'm amazed that there aren't groups similar to this one creating games for the Mindset. << This must be a very obscure system. I've never heard of it. From ward.shrake@w... Tue Nov 27 18:54:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 28 Nov 2001 02:54:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 87587 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 02:54:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2001 02:54:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.77) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 02:54:06 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.119] by n27.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2001 02:54:06 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 02:54:01 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Postgame Message-ID: <9u1jk9+5atl@e...> In-Reply-To: <9u0m1t+v464@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1350 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.109 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Glenn Saunders" wrote: > >> > If anyone could find > THAT code then they would really have something. > << > > J Fenton released the ROM images for Mame, so probably > still has the source, including older builds. But like everyone else, I figure she probably has more important things to do than search through their belongings in the garage or the closets to help us out. Don't get me wrong... I'm just saying let's not push her too hard or we may push her away entirely. I might not have brought this up under other circumstances, but you all may as well know that I did talk to her some weeks ago, along those lines. She did tell me that she'd go looking through her collection of old Astrocade stuff, with the idea of seeing what she has, that we don't already have. (Be patient... its in the works.) After I climbed back down off the ceiling I posted here asking who was willing to donate some bucks towards getting a multicart for her. (And I want to say "thanks!" again to all who contributed to that!) I wanted to do that anyway, but her generosity in donating ROMs to the MAME project, combined with offering to help us out if she could, just cried out for some kind of a significant "thank you" from us. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Tue Nov 27 20:14:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 28 Nov 2001 04:13:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 78557 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 04:13:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2001 04:13:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.64) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 04:14:00 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.103] by n14.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2001 04:15:15 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 04:13:56 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Lame, late-night humor Message-ID: <9u1oa4+i3je@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5640 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.140 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Interesting, even with the handful of multicarts Ward has > made, it could be considered common because it is still > in "production" and easily available for purchase. > > Since I've got one, Ward might as well stop making them... > > [wink] Heehee. I'm still chuckling over that one, even minutes later. :-) On the broad subject of gaming-related humor.. When I was talking to Mike White on the phone yesterday I was even sillier than I publicly admitted. As background info, be aware that Mike tells me cool stories about the "good old days" including who made what and what happened to it, later on. I love all that stuff! Anyway, he has told me that a number of the psuedo-vaporware products that are considered just rumors by the public, actually were made and sold through places like "ABC Hobbycraft" back in the day. Some of them were actually made in small batches, for sale. A few sold and the rest were torn down later by the manufacturer for spare parts. Knowing that's what really happened in some cases, Adam's suggestion above perhaps painfully close to the truth? Along those lines, I jokingly told Mike White yesterday that it sounded like I could just spread out the circuit boards I have right now and take a photo of them to prove they existed once. And then I could go out and use the semi-completed boards as "Frisbees" or skeet shooting targets, instead of actually making them into multicarts. Technically, I said, doing that would make me an "Vaporware And Crapola Unlimited Union Member". (Or something; I was working on some acronyms and had a few pretty good ones started, late last night.) I was asking Mike if he thought I could get a get guest-speaker role at a gaming convention, due to my experiences as a VACUUM producer? It hit too close to home for Mike. It was more painful than funny?! ================================================================= WARNING... ANYONE WITHOUT A SENSE OF HUMOR SHOULD STOP READING!!! ================================================================= Adam and Mike have both heard this story, but no one else has... In the early stages of my multicart projects, I constantly got "Will It Have Everything?" as one of my most frequent customer questions. It got to the point where I got really tired of having to explain to people that although it was generally believed that other people's multicarts "had everything," that it just wasn't true in real life. They were ALL missing at least one program. They were "incomplete". Even if you "had everything" today, if someone finds a half-finished, unplayable prototype of some game tomorrow it stops being complete. First homebrew game out, sorry, your multicart is now "obsolete". This bothers me, because I mentally see the human being that made all of the other games in that library, and I'm insulted on their behalf that a person could just toss their game creations aside so easily? One of my sick, semi-private jokes from that period was that I said I was going to invent a completely fictitious game called "Trash Truck" and then sneak it into the listings of what games had come out for a system, or were once in development. The made-up story would be that the programmer was a very dedicated soul, who poured all sorts of time and effort into what was widely rumored to have likely been one of the greatest videogames ever made. Sadly, while on their way to get the finished game duplicated for mass production, the programmer was crossing a street, and not paying enough attention. A trash truck ran a red light, and killed the person. The only available copy may have been destroyed, along with the person that had programmed it. No one was quite sure what the name of the game was going to be, so it was reverently referred to as "The Trash Truck Game" from then on. I will be the first person to admit that only a hardcore retro- gamer / collector would ever come up with such a story. "Guilty as charged". It is a story that only our little sub-culture would really understand, let alone create. The only thing funny about any of that is that if someone actually did spread a hoax like that throughout the video game collecting community at large, I would bet money that there would be a small number of people that would actually turn down the ENTIRE rest of the software library, just because they could not have that one game. If they could not have "everything" they just wouldn't want any of it. This is a game which even by the story's implied admission, may or may not have ever existed. A game that that no one can honestly claim to have ever seen in person. A game that no one even knows its real name. And yet, someone somewhere would most likely spend days or weeks or even years, trying to find this thing. Why? Why stress out over "unobtainium"? Why choose to be obsessive / compulsive and feel like their life was not complete if they couldn't obtain this game? In my opinion, you have probably been around this hobby way too long if you see the humor in that? Face it, you're a fellow gaming addict! (Again, I'm definitely guilty-as-charged. I made it up, after all?) By the same token, if you want to burn me at the stake for inventing such an irreverent, hateful, "anti-collector" story then you might want to remember that this is all just supposed to be a hobby? Hobbies are supposed to be about fun and relaxing. And even amusing, from time to time. :-) Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Wed Nov 28 08:12:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 28 Nov 2001 16:12:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 69127 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 16:12:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2001 16:12:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.122) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 16:12:31 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:12:31 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:12:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Lame, late-night humor Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:12:30 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Nov 2001 16:12:31.0092 (UTC) FILETIME=[7B4F0B40:01C17827] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo This week: Behind the Scenes of: “Trash Truck” Ward admits that he made up the game and name "Trash Truck” as a joke, but he forgets to mention that this idea is based on actual events that happened in California in the early nineteen-eighties and continue on to this day. This is the story: if you have a weak stomach you might want to pass on this. In 1983 a company in Sunnyvale was expanding with leaps and bounds when suddenly (it’s said) the bottom of the market fell out and, whoops!, the company lost 500 million dollars. Well, normal folks, like me, might be pretty upset. And, I’m glad to say that some normal folks were upset. In 1984 this company was sold to, get this, one guy named Jack (with some help from friends and relatives). The new tone of the company was a push away from the old establishment; garbage trucks were being phased out and sleek, fast multi-functional Home Vehicles with 16-Valve engines were the new ticket to riches. It is fair to say that this Jack person, disdained today by many, didn’t do all that bad, considering the circumstances of the period. The company continued to make garbage trucks, especially the company’s bread and butter model, the Very Clean System. The classic truck was remodeled and renamed (jr.), but the essentials were the same-- it had fallen behind the technology curve. Mind you, this company did not sit on its laurels and just wait for the money to roll in. Other trucks were made, but they just did not catch on with the public’s needs. In 1996 the company, having limped along for years, folded. In 2001 the company is around in name only, but there are people that rummage through second-hand stores looking for the well-remembered, classic, full-size garbage truck, the Very Clean System (hint, you can usually find these mixed in with old record players). The trucks themselves aren’t that difficult to find, it is the accessories that people really go after. (Again, look for these accessories hidden among the tapes and records at the nearby Given-to-Us-Sold-to-You store). These accessories plug into the truck so that it can perform other functions. Some favorites then (and now) are the Space Accessory (launch into space, shoot Aster-, I mean meteorites), the Jungle Accessory (swing over pits, leap scorpions, collect treasure) and, my favorite, the Ka-Crash Accessory (catch falling, exploding garbage cans thrown from nearby rooftops). Not everyone is equally fond of all accessories i.e. the Eat Tea Accessory (fall into pits, go some more, fall in again) is much maligned, though a few folks find even this Accessory to be a classic. You might be thinking one thing to yourself: doesn’t this buying of trucks and accessories end up taking up an enormous amount of space? Who has the room for this hobby? Not many. Most people that rummage and accumulate classic Very Clean Systems and Accessories soon find that they are using a bedroom or bathroom to store an extra truck here or there, and piles of Accessories are even known to accumulate in living rooms before too long. You might hear an occasional complaint from the wife, “I can’t even walk in here. You’ve become a garbage truck collector. You collect trash!” But the husband knows the truth, he is a collector of treasure, he is keeping a piece of history alive; this accumulated trove is not trash! Well, okay, he admits to himself, the trucks are outdated and he hasn’t even taken most of them for a test spin, the Accessories don’t exactly do any good for all of mankind, and the flies that swarm around the uncleaned trucks can be maddening, but this is cool stuff, damn it! You see, although videogames and this truck company are not at all alike, it is this rich Garbage Truck history that gave Ward his idea for “Garbage Truck” the videogame. Oh my goodness, Ward, please forgive my over-zealous bit-attempt at comedy. Anyone out there even GET this story? - Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From lance@a... Wed Nov 28 09:30:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 28 Nov 2001 17:30:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 24290 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 17:30:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2001 17:30:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alteeve.com) (209.226.69.125) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 17:30:04 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com (host.bettermarkets.com [209.167.86.50]) by alteeve.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15036 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:45:36 -0500 Message-ID: <3C052280.6060602@a...> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:44:32 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.5) Gecko/20011013 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Lame, late-night humor References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Adam Trionfo wrote: > This week: Behind the Scenes of: "Trash Truck" > Actually, I know the Jack story very well, Though I'd explain the co. history slightly differently. I own 3 of his Very Clean System trucks. One three lever, one 4 lever and 1 jr. (Didn't actually pursue any of these though, They were dropped on me by friends) Got 2 of his sleek sports cars, and one of his short tailed cats. Luckily my wife's with me on collecting this stuff. The JR's hers. :) -- Lance F. Squire From ward.shrake@w... Wed Nov 28 14:07:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 28 Nov 2001 22:07:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 42807 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 22:07:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2001 22:07:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.76) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 22:07:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.4.76] by n26.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2001 22:03:23 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 22:07:03 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Lame, late-night humor Message-ID: <9u3n67+qbl5@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1877 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.132 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > This week: Behind the Scenes of: "Trash Truck" > > Ward admits that he made up the game and name "Trash Truck" > as a joke, but he forgets to mention that this idea is based > on actual events that happened in California in the early > nineteen-eighties and continue on to this day. After seeing my little story in print, I liked it enough to re-write it a bit, and stick it into the already-way-too-long Multicart FAQ. While I enjoyed Adam's revisionist history, I have to admit that the "Trash Truck" name itself was loosely based on a story one of my early programming instructors taught us. He had said that you should always make your code readable by others, so that someone else could easily take over your work if you ever were unable to maintain it yourself. His story involved a programmer going out to lunch one day and being hit by a Beer Truck. Of course, his work was then a mystery to those that had to figure it all, out without the real benefit of remarks explaining sections, et cetera. The "Beer Truck Scenario" he had called it. He never mentioned incompetent co-workers trying to mess with things that were over their heads, or the fear some people have that they'll be replaced by a cheaper programmer. (Wonder why?) But then again, MAME and MESS are open-code, and they both rock!? In other news, I decided to stick pictures of both the Bally and Emerson multicarts in the FAQ, way up top. And for the first time, I showed off the Bally's bottom label; up till now I wasn't sure I was going to admit I had even done one, or would include it on all carts. (If I run out of real Bally carts, the third-party ones from Mike White are perfectly work-able but don't include bottom label space.) Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Wed Nov 28 19:43:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 29 Nov 2001 03:42:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 86887 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 03:42:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2001 03:42:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.176) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 03:42:58 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:42:58 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 03:42:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 6 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:42:58 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Nov 2001 03:42:58.0580 (UTC) FILETIME=[F0040D40:01C17887] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 6 November 28, 2001 Version 1.6 of the Nutting Manual Project has been completed. Thanks to Rob for finishing up pages 12-20. The file is called nutting.zip and is located at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ We need help to finish typing pages from the manual and creating ASCII text and/or vector diagrams. See text file at above address for more details for. Currently in progress, recently completed, or left to do: 1-70 - Done * 71-80 - Not Assigned 81-91 - In Progress - Adam Trionfo * 92-100 - Not Assigned 101-143 - Done * I’ve reopened these slots-- wanna give it a go? We’re just about done with the main manual. Let’s get a couple of new folks involved to finish up these last typed pages. Diagrams - We need volunteers After the manual is completed, we need to tackle the ROM source. Right now, we're looking good. Thanks again to Rob for finishing up his assignment. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From lance@a... Wed Nov 28 20:34:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 29 Nov 2001 04:34:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 67022 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 04:34:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2001 04:34:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail42.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.254.60.36) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 04:34:34 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.165.173]) by femail42.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011129043433.JNBP596.femail42.sdc1.sfba.home.com@a...> for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 20:34:33 -0800 Message-ID: <3C05BB0E.1010507@a...> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 23:35:26 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 6 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Adam Trionfo wrote: > Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 6 > > November 28, 2001 > > > Currently in progress, recently completed, or left to do: > > 1-70 - Done > * 71-80 - Not Assigned > 81-91 - In Progress - Adam Trionfo > * 92-100 - Not Assigned > 101-143 - Done > > * I've reopened these slots-- wanna give it a go? > I'll take 92-100 From solder_guy@m... Thu Nov 29 01:31:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 29 Nov 2001 09:31:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 51518 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 09:31:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2001 09:31:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail5.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.36) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 09:31:55 -0000 Received: (from www@l...) by mail5.bigmailbox.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) id fAT9Vt608357; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 01:31:55 -0800 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 01:31:55 -0800 Message-Id: <200111290931.fAT9Vt608357@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [166.102.174.94] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Re: [ballyalley] Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 6 From: "solder_guy Last Name" X-Yahoo-Profile: solder_guy and I'll take 71-80 .. to finish! Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA New email address: solder_guy@b... ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Thu Nov 29 10:00:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 29 Nov 2001 18:00:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 43751 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 18:00:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2001 18:00:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.25) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 18:00:34 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:00:34 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 18:00:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: RE: Re: [ballyalley] Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 6 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:00:34 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Nov 2001 18:00:34.0777 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE4C9C90:01C178FF] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Rob, Lance - Super! That's the last of the regular manual-- I can see the finish line; for this leg of the race... Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Fri Nov 30 14:35:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 30 Nov 2001 22:35:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 12933 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 22:35:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2001 22:35:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.76) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 22:35:16 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:35:16 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:35:16 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 7 Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:35:16 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Nov 2001 22:35:16.0705 (UTC) FILETIME=[48B4FD10:01C179EF] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 7 November 30, 2001 Version 1.7 of the Nutting Manual Project has been completed. The file is called nutting.zip and is located at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ We need help to finish typing pages from the manual and creating ASCII text and/or vector diagrams. See text file at above address for more details. Currently in progress, recently completed, or left to do: 1-70 - Done 71-80 - In Progress - Rob Mitchel 81-91 - Done - Adam Trionfo 92-100 - In Progress - Lance Squire 101-143 - Done Once these two fine fellows finish with their assignments (no pressure- just HURRY up and get done!) every text page will have been retyped. Outstanding! We still need some clever vector folks to redraw 18 full-page diagrams that begin on page 105 (Glenn, could you explain your Flash idea to the group, please). After the manual is completed, we need to tackle the ROM source (it walks hand-in-hand with the manual). Thanks to Lance and Rob for picking up these last two typing assignments. Finally, have you looked at your Astrocade lately? It’s sort of in anticipation, isn’t it? Mine is. I can just see its old cogs churning, getting ready for someone to give it a workout. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From fmillera@p... Fri Nov 30 19:02:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 1 Dec 2001 03:02:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 38401 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2001 03:02:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2001 03:02:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta7.pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2001 03:02:19 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.240.66]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GNN004SZ9RTW4@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:02:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:02:16 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 7 In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011130190047.00ab27d8@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus At 02:35 PM 11/30/2001 -0800, you wrote: >Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 7 > >November 30, 2001 > >Version 1.7 of the Nutting Manual Project has been completed. The file is >called nutting.zip and is located at: > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ > >We need help to finish typing pages from the manual and creating ASCII text >and/or vector diagrams. See text file at above address for more details. > >Currently in progress, recently completed, or left to do: > > 1-70 - Done > 71-80 - In Progress - Rob Mitchel > 81-91 - Done - Adam Trionfo > 92-100 - In Progress - Lance Squire > 101-143 - Done > >Once these two fine fellows finish with their assignments (no pressure- just >HURRY up and get done!) every text page will have been retyped. >Outstanding! We still need some clever vector folks to redraw 18 full-page >diagrams that begin on page 105 (Glenn, could you explain your Flash idea to >the group, please). I have redrawn some of these diagrams (with a bit more info) in Visio format which I'm going to include in my video hardware write-up (yes, I am working on it). I can publish them to pdf, if that would help. Cheers, Tony Miller >After the manual is completed, we need to tackle the ROM source (it walks >hand-in-hand with the manual). Thanks to Lance and Rob for picking up these >last two typing assignments. > >Finally, have you looked at your Astrocade lately? It's sort of in >anticipation, isn't it? Mine is. I can just see its old cogs churning, >getting ready for someone to give it a workout. > >Adam Trionfo > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ward.shrake@w... Sat Dec 01 02:57:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 1 Dec 2001 10:57:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 20980 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2001 10:57:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2001 10:57:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.78) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2001 10:57:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.113] by n28.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2001 10:57:08 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 10:57:03 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Software library / ROM images Message-ID: <9uad1v+s110@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2447 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.72 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan As I mentioned some days ago, I got in 23 EPROMs from Mike White this past week. I just finished the last of the "archiving" chores on all of those. (I'd ask you to trust me on the math but after pulling a dozen hours or so of continuous work on this stuff, I don't trust myself!?) Unless I'm mistaken, it appears the latest updates adds up to fifteen ROM dump corrections, plus eighteen brand-new games. Some of these are cart hybrids; BASIC games changed into carts. Some will run in AstroBASIC without any expansion memory. Others need at least 4k of additional RAM; something like a Blue RAM expander or larger. They're all (hopefully) labelled properly in my cart software listings. Because Mike White is a Technical Wizard Extraordinaire on the Bally system, and a very generous / nice guy to boot, all of this new stuff fits into just seven of the formerly available 8k "empty holes" in my multicart. That leaves ten 8k holes left over for future expansion. (If we find enough cool stuff to fill that, I can start taking a few of the weaker programs that are already there, to make more room.) Mike could have filled it up if he was trying to, I'd imagine. He wants to leave some free space, to see what Jamie Fenton has, and what might show up from any other source, before adding "filler". I did delete one program off the multicart, but only one. ("Stweek".) Nobody even knows what the thing is supposed to do, or how to use it? It is more of a historical curiousity than anything like a game. The eventual CD-ROM is a much better place for it, in my humble opinion. Same goes for two others I didn't bother to put on the multicart, but archived anyway; unfinished versions of "Soccer" and "Cosmic Raider". Since completed versions do exist and are already on the cart, I don't see the point in including those two? Seems like wasted space? Anyway, if you know where to look, there's a ton of new stuff up now. I have not play-tested any of these yet. They pass CRC-32 checks and so on, so that's good enough for me, for right now. I need a few days rest away from stuff like that, then I'll quadruple check everything. (I literally dumped it all three times, for multiple redundancy's sake. All three versions matched perfectly though dumped differently.) "One small step for Mike White, one huge jump forward for all of us." Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Sat Dec 01 06:55:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 1 Dec 2001 14:55:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 43451 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2001 14:55:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2001 14:55:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.7) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2001 14:55:08 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 06:55:08 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 01 Dec 2001 14:55:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Software library / ROM images Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 06:55:08 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Dec 2001 14:55:08.0512 (UTC) FILETIME=[2B5ACE00:01C17A78] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Ward’s software archiving... um, woo. I mean, wow. Michael talked to me about all the stuff he was sending to Ward; but I guess I didn't see the scope of it all. This much software is kinda scary. With the expanded software, we really have a "need" for a no-frills RAM expansion unit, or at the very least the emulator needs to be able to use this expanded software. The focus of Hi-Res and serial add-ons for any proposed expansion has been stealing the lime-light. How about a RAM card that allows the use of the already available software? If nothing else, it would be a great stop-gap on the way to an Astrocade with 1024x768 (4-color) hi-res mode and web browsing capabilities (at 300-baud). That last bit there, uh, that was a bit of sarcasm. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From fmillera@p... Sat Dec 01 10:13:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 1 Dec 2001 18:13:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 6587 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2001 18:13:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2001 18:13:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta5.snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.241) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2001 18:13:30 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.242.81]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GNO001RPFYHBM@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 01 Dec 2001 10:13:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 10:13:29 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Software library / ROM images In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011201101255.00aadb28@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus At 06:55 AM 12/1/2001 -0800, you wrote: >Ward's software archiving... um, woo. I mean, wow. > >Michael talked to me about all the stuff he was sending to Ward; but I guess >I didn't see the scope of it all. This much software is kinda scary. > >With the expanded software, we really have a "need" for a no-frills RAM >expansion unit, or at the very least the emulator needs to be able to use >this expanded software. The focus of Hi-Res and serial add-ons for any >proposed expansion has been stealing the lime-light. How about a RAM card >that allows the use of the already available software? If nothing else, it >would be a great stop-gap on the way to an Astrocade with 1024x768 (4-color) >hi-res mode and web browsing capabilities (at 300-baud). > >That last bit there, uh, that was a bit of sarcasm. That's good. For a second there I was wondering what you were smoking. Cheers, Tony Miller >Adam > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ward.shrake@w... Sat Dec 01 15:56:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 1 Dec 2001 23:56:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 33634 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2001 23:56:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2001 23:56:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.63) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2001 23:56:45 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.105] by n13.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2001 23:49:35 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 23:56:42 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Software library / ROM images Message-ID: <9ubqnq+2824@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1403 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.65.133 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Ward's software archiving... um, woo. I mean, wow. > > Michael talked to me about all the stuff he was sending > to Ward; but I guess I didn't see the scope of it all. > This much software is kinda scary. And more work than I want to do again, for awhile! "Fatigue city". Being the slave-driver that he is -- Heehee -- Adam pushed me to also update the database. So I updated it by quite a bit. There are 189 entries now; Jeez! You can see it for yourself... just click on "database" to your left. It isn't perfect or complete, but it is definitely better now. One suggestion for future emulation efforts... a lot of these new games are "BASIC-carts-that-really-used-to-be-tapes". Many of them want you to insert either AstroBASIC or Blue Ram BASIC to use them. (That's kind of hard to do on an emulator if it is set up on the idea of loading one program and turning control over to it, or doing a power-off reset, and those are your only options.) There ought to be some kind of quick and simple "hot key" combo to load whatever BASIC cart these hybrid games need or want? It asks for AstroBASIC and you hit a key, and it loads that ROM image along with your current game. And on that note, I'm officially "on strike" for the next few days! Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Sat Dec 01 16:04:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 2 Dec 2001 00:04:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 35650 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2001 00:04:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2001 00:04:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.61) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2001 00:04:59 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.97] by n11.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2001 00:04:35 -0000 Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 00:04:31 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Software library / ROM images Message-ID: <9ubr6f+7ft1@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1319 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.65.133 From: "Ward Shrake" X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: (snip) > With the expanded software, we really have a "need" for a > no-frills RAM expansion unit, or at the very least the emulator > needs to be able to use this expanded software. The focus of > Hi-Res and serial add-ons for any proposed expansion has been > stealing the lime-light. How about a RAM card that allows the > use of the already available software? No offense meant to anyone, but that is actually supposed to be one of the two main topics of this group. Quoting from the home page... "Currently, there are two encouraged topics. The first is 'programs that can be used as cross-development tools with or without a RAM upgrade for the Astrocade.' The other is 'building inexpensive RAM upgrades that are backward compatible with older RAM upgrades.'" So there. ;-) Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm If nothing else, it > would be a great stop-gap on the way to an Astrocade with 1024x768 (4-color) > hi-res mode and web browsing capabilities (at 300-baud). > > That last bit there, uh, that was a bit of sarcasm. > > Adam > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Sat Dec 01 21:23:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 2 Dec 2001 05:23:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 29983 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2001 05:23:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2001 05:23:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.160) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2001 05:23:49 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 21:23:49 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 02 Dec 2001 05:23:49 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 8 Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 21:23:49 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Dec 2001 05:23:49.0858 (UTC) FILETIME=[86190C20:01C17AF1] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo December 1, 2001 Version 1.8 of the Nutting Manual Project has been completed. The file is called nutting.zip and is located at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ Only ten more pages from the manual need to be typed! After that, besides the ROM source, there are some ASCII text and/or vector diagrams to be redrawn. See text file at above address for more details. Currently in progress, recently completed, or left to do: 1-70 - Done 71-80 - In Progress - Rob Mitchell 81-91 - Done - Adam Trionfo 92-100 - Done - Thanks, Lance! 101-143 - Done When Rob is done with this last assignment (before we move on to the source), I will add his ten pages to the manual and then give it one more proofread. My eyes are bleary from the strain already, just thinking about it (hint, hint to any volunteers). Tony has offered to convert to PDF format some diagrams that he has redrawn already, but we still need some clever vector folks to redraw 18 full-page diagrams that begin on page 105 (Glenn, could you explain your Flash idea to the group, please). This stage of the project is falling into place; in the next couple of weeks a final version of the manual, minus the source, will be posted. I look forward to seeing how Glenn dresses the text version up into html. As always, after the manual is completed, we need to tackle the ROM source (it walks hand-in-hand with the manual). Fun, fun, fun. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From fmillera@p... Sun Dec 02 10:26:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 2 Dec 2001 18:26:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 51051 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2001 18:26:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2001 18:26:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta5.snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.241) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2001 18:26:15 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.242.58]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GNQ00EMBB7P7T@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 02 Dec 2001 10:26:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 10:26:09 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 8 In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011202102335.00a8a9a0@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1814148==_.ALT" From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_1814148==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:23 PM 12/1/2001 -0800, you wrote: >December 1, 2001 > >Version 1.8 of the Nutting Manual Project has been completed. The file is >called nutting.zip and is located at: > >http://groups.yahoo.com/gr >oup/ballyalley/files/ > >Only ten more pages from the manual need to be typed! After that, besides >the ROM source, there are some ASCII text and/or vector diagrams to be >redrawn. See text file at above address for more details. > >Currently in progress, recently completed, or left to do: > > 1-70 - Done > 71-80 - In Progress - Rob Mitchell > 81-91 - Done - Adam Trionfo > 92-100 - Done - Thanks, Lance! > 101-143 - Done > >When Rob is done with this last assignment (before we move on to the >source), I will add his ten pages to the manual and then give it one more >proofread. My eyes are bleary from the strain already, just thinking about >it (hint, hint to any volunteers). > >Tony has offered to convert to PDF format some diagrams that he has redrawn >already, but we still need some clever vector folks to redraw 18 full-page >diagrams that begin on page 105 (Glenn, could you explain your Flash idea to >the group, please). Come to think of it, the drawings are already in pdf format, in the file repository (file bally_system_description.pdf). So, why the effort to convert everything to text, other than the HVGSYS portion of the DNA manual which is not included in the pdf file? Certainly anyone who wants to read a pdf file can download the free reader from Adobe.... just wondering. Cheers, Tony Miller >This stage of the project is falling into place; in the next couple of weeks >a final version of the manual, minus the source, will be posted. I look >forward to seeing how Glenn dresses the text version up into html. As >always, after the manual is completed, we need to tackle the ROM source (it >walks hand-in-hand with the manual). > >Fun, fun, fun. > >Adam Trionfo > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_1814148==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 09:23 PM 12/1/2001 -0800, you wrote:
December 1, 2001

Version 1.8 of the Nutting Manual Project has been completed.  The file is
called nutting.zip and is located at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/

Only ten more pages from the manual need to be typed!  After that, besides
the ROM source, there are some ASCII text and/or vector diagrams to be
redrawn.  See text file at above address for more details.

Currently in progress, recently completed, or left to do:

        1-70  - Done
       71-80  - In Progress - Rob Mitchell
       81-91  - Done - Adam Trionfo
       92-100 - Done - Thanks, Lance!
      101-143 - Done

When Rob is done with this last assignment (before we move on to the
source), I will add his ten pages to the manual and then give it one more
proofread.  My eyes are bleary from the strain already, just thinking about
it (hint, hint to any volunteers).

Tony has offered to convert to PDF format some diagrams that he has redrawn
already, but we still need some clever vector folks to redraw 18 full-page
diagrams that begin on page 105 (Glenn, could you explain your Flash idea to
the group, please).

Come to think of it, the drawings are already in pdf format, in the file repository (file bally_system_description.pdf).  So, why the effort to convert everything to text, other than the HVGSYS portion of the DNA manual which is not included in the pdf file?  Certainly anyone who wants to read a pdf file can download the free reader from Adobe.... just wondering.

Cheers,

Tony Miller


This stage of the project is falling into place; in the next couple of weeks
a final version of the manual, minus the source, will be posted.  I look
forward to seeing how Glenn dresses the text version up into html.  As
always, after the manual is completed, we need to tackle the ROM source (it
walks hand-in-hand with the manual).

Fun, fun, fun.

Adam Trionfo

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


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--=====================_1814148==_.ALT-- From ballyalley@h... Sun Dec 02 16:11:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 3 Dec 2001 00:11:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 97984 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 00:11:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2001 00:11:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.60) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 00:11:09 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 16:11:09 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 00:11:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Convert 'Nutting manual' to text - why? Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 16:11:09 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Dec 2001 00:11:09.0600 (UTC) FILETIME=[02869A00:01C17B8F] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Tony asks: "...why the effort to convert everything [the 'Nutting Manual'] to text..." Some reasons are: 1) Size. The PDF version is seven megabytes, the text version, zipped, is 50K. It's a big difference; but what does it matter? Troubled downloads, length of download time, and ignoring the manual because it’s a bother to download a file with a modem. 2) Portability. PDF documents are portable (hence their name), but a seven megabyte ‘portable’ file is made much more portable at 50K. The text version will likely find its way to places it could not have been before. 3) Ease of use. Text files are much easier to work with than PDF documents. Faster, smaller, easier to read-- just better. For instance, my 300MHz computer can’t cleanly scroll through the PDF manual, it sort of limps along, but a text file would never cause this problem on an semi-modern computer. 4) Readability. The version of the ‘Nutting manual’ that is online has the ‘Do Not Reproduce’ message over the manual’s text. The elimination of this message makes the manual easier to read in two functional ways and one minor non-functional one. First, the page is no longer broken-up by big sideways words that are just in the way of reading, and secondly, obscured, unreadable words can now be read. Lastly, a purely cosmetic advantage is that the printed text file version just looks better and is more attractive to the eye (this IS worth noting; once you compare two pages side-by-side you’ll see why). 5) Formatting. Glenn will be converting the text document into a well formatted web page. 6) Keyword Search. In a text file any word or phrase can be looked for, but no search is available in a PDF document made up of individual TIFF files (such as the ‘Nutting Manual’). I’ve already used this search feature (simple in a word processor) and I am quite pleased with the results. 7) Picture Size - Perhaps harder to understand is why convert the drawings to vector format. This is Glenn’s project and I am endorsing it because it is a good idea. Vector files are VERY small and can be scaled to any size- perfect for Internet use. I’ll let him answer further details. The Keyword Search, of the above features, has made the conversion of the manual a worthwhile project worth the effort that it requires. In second place, after Keyword Search, is the reduction of size of the document, but really all seven reasons make sense. When the project is done it will seem incomprehensible that we put up with the 7MB PDF version once we start to take advantage of the feature that a text/html manual will offer to us. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Mon Dec 03 06:29:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 3 Dec 2001 14:29:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 30897 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 14:29:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2001 14:29:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.30) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 14:29:45 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 06:29:45 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 14:29:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Bally Alley website facelift Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 06:29:45 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Dec 2001 14:29:45.0621 (UTC) FILETIME=[F4779450:01C17C06] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo In my email this morning was an attechment from Lance Squire called “Merry-Christmas.zip.” I was in for a real shock- he redesigned the front end of the Bally Alley website along the lines of what this group has talked about! It looks fantastic, and I will be integrating it within the week (that is, give me seven days). I am very impressed, and I expect that you will be too. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Mon Dec 03 09:35:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 3 Dec 2001 17:35:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 26010 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 17:35:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2001 17:35:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.33) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 17:35:30 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:35:29 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 17:35:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 9 Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 09:35:29 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Dec 2001 17:35:29.0889 (UTC) FILETIME=[E6F7ED10:01C17C20] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 9 December 3, 2001 Version 1.9 of the Nutting Manual Project has been completed. The file is called nutting.zip and is located at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ Progress Update --------------- The retyping stage of the ‘Nutting’ project complete (Wow, thanks guys!). A final version of the manual, minus the source, will be posted when proofreading is complete. After that, a compilable version of the ROM source is the next goal. * Typing Assignments 1-143 - Complete * Proofreading Progress Cover,TOC- Not yet assigned 1-20 - Not yet assigned 21-40 - Not yet assigned 41-60 - Not yet assigned 61-80 - Not yet assigned 80-100 - Not yet assigned 101-120 - Not yet assigned 121-143 - Not yet assigned If you pay attention to close details (i.e. can compare original ‘Nutting’ document pages side-by-side with retyped pages and see very subtle difference) then please volunteer for proofreading assignments. * Diagram Conversion Page(s) Flash Description ------- ----- ----------- 105 To-Do Audio Generator Block 108 To-Do System Block 110-111 To-Do Microcycler Block 113 To-Do Address Chip Block 116 To-Do Data Chip Block 118 To-Do I/O Chip 121-122 To-Do Master Oscillator/Tone Generator 124-130 To-Do Various Full-Page Diagrams 132-135 To-Do Relationship Full-Page Diagrams (three) I am pushing these vector conversions for Glenn Saunders; they will work very well with his html conversion of the ‘Nutting Manual.’ For more details on progress, see the ‘Finished/TODO List’ section in ‘Nutting.zip.’ If I could, I would give all volunteers an all expense-paid trip to the next Classic Gaming Convention, but I can’t. I WILL give you all my sincere gratitude though-- THANKS!! - Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Mon Dec 03 12:04:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 3 Dec 2001 20:04:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 24411 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 20:04:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2001 20:04:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.112) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 20:04:38 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:04:38 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 20:04:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Simple and Short Proofreading question Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 12:04:38 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Dec 2001 20:04:38.0521 (UTC) FILETIME=[BCC4CE90:01C17C35] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Proofreading question: On page 131 of the ‘Nutting Manual’ is an example of Phi (an O with a striked I). What is the appropriate ASCII translation? Is it this? "The frequency of PX# is half that of 7M and the 0 is one-fourth 7M. There are 455 cycles of 7M per horizontal line and 133 3/4 phi (phase 2) cycles per line." Is it just ’Phi,’ or ‘Phi (phase 2)’? Or, even, something else? Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From cybpunks@h... Mon Dec 03 12:32:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 3 Dec 2001 20:32:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 38316 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 20:32:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2001 20:32:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.80) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 20:32:34 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.93] by n30.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2001 20:32:17 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 20:30:59 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 7 Message-ID: <9ugne3+vrbn@e...> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20011130190047.00ab27d8@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 314 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.84 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> I have redrawn some of these diagrams (with a bit more info) in Visio format which I'm going to include in my video hardware write-up (yes, I am working on it). I can publish them to pdf, if that would help. << Is there any way this can be done in .SWF (Flash)? That's easier to embed than a PDF files. From cybpunks@h... Mon Dec 03 12:39:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 3 Dec 2001 20:39:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 27951 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 20:39:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2001 20:39:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.77) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 20:39:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.63] by n27.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2001 20:39:03 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 20:39:02 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 8 Message-ID: <9ugnt6+uhpk@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1052 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.84 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> (Glenn, could you explain your Flash idea to the group, please). << I'd like to have the entire Nutting Manual available to read via HTML. By HTML I don't mean raw ASCII in courier with PRE tags around them like you'll see with a lot of transcriptions (like Atari 2600 manuals on Atari Age). I mean well-formatted HTML. Tabular stuff like the definition of the significant bits of various registers and function parameters can be reformatted very easily as HTML tables. And the diagrams can be Flash files. No animation, just for the vector graphics, so that they will automatically resize to your browser AND antialias the lines. In addition to aesthetics, having it in HTML allows you to heavily hyperlink it up so that you can really dig your way through it random- access cross-reference style rather than reading it like a book page to page. That's what I'd like to work on when the transcription is done, which is, of course, not mutually exclusive with other forms of presentation for the manual (like ASCII-based PDF). From cybpunks@h... Mon Dec 03 12:40:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 3 Dec 2001 20:40:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 90384 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 20:40:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2001 20:40:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.73) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 20:40:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@h... Received: from [10.1.10.97] by n23.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2001 20:40:03 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 20:40:02 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 8 Message-ID: <9ugnv2+ctl8@e...> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20011202102335.00a8a9a0@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 526 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.84 From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo >> Come to think of it, the drawings are already in pdf format, in the file repository (file bally_system_description.pdf). So, why the effort to convert everything to text, other than the HVGSYS portion of the DNA manual which is not included in the pdf file? Certainly anyone who wants to read a pdf file can download the free reader from Adobe.... just wondering.<< Because the diagrams are line-based (i.e. vector) yet currently they are simply scanned in bitmaps. This is extremely wasteful on the internet. From lance@a... Mon Dec 03 13:05:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 3 Dec 2001 21:05:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 98116 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 21:05:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2001 21:05:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alteeve.com) (209.226.69.125) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 21:05:07 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com (host.bettermarkets.com [209.167.86.50]) by alteeve.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA01769 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:20:45 -0500 Message-ID: <3C0BEC8B.1040309@a...> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 16:20:11 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.5) Gecko/20011013 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 8 References: <9ugnv2+ctl8@e...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Glenn Saunders wrote: > Because the diagrams are line-based (i.e. vector) yet currently they > are simply scanned in bitmaps. This is extremely wasteful on the > internet. > Here, here! This is very true, and single image (Vector not bitmap) .swf file are VERY compact! -- Lance F. Squire From fmillera@p... Mon Dec 03 19:20:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_2); 4 Dec 2001 03:20:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 44431 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 03:20:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2001 03:20:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta6.snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.240) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 03:20:21 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.243.5]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GNS00E33ULWC9@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 19:20:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 19:20:18 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Simple and Short Proofreading question In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011203191939.00ada018@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus At 12:04 PM 12/3/2001 -0800, you wrote: >Proofreading question: > >On page 131 of the 'Nutting Manual' is an example of Phi (an O with a >striked I). What is the appropriate ASCII translation? Is it this? > >"The frequency of PX# is half that of 7M and the 0 is one-fourth 7M. >There are 455 cycles of 7M per horizontal line and 133 3/4 phi (phase 2) >cycles per line." > >Is it just 'Phi,' or 'Phi (phase 2)'? Or, even, something else? I would go with Phi, or perhaps more appropriately, Z80_Clk. Cheers, Tony Miller >Adam > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From fmillera@p... Mon Dec 03 19:21:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_2); 4 Dec 2001 03:21:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 75538 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 03:21:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2001 03:21:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta6.snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.240) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 03:21:11 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.243.5]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GNS00ESNUN9BH@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 19:21:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 19:21:07 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 7 In-reply-to: <9ugne3+vrbn@e...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20011203192038.00ada118@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_991365==_.ALT" References: <4.2.2.20011130190047.00ab27d8@p...> From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_991365==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:30 PM 12/3/2001 +0000, you wrote: > >> >I have redrawn some of these diagrams (with a bit more info) in Visio >format which I'm going to include in my video hardware write-up (yes, >I am >working on it). I can publish them to pdf, if that would help. ><< > >Is there any way this can be done in .SWF (Flash)? That's easier to >embed than a PDF files. Not familiar with the format. Is there a converter available somewhere? Cheers, Tony Miller >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_991365==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 08:30 PM 12/3/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>>
I have redrawn some of these diagrams (with a bit more info) in Visio
format which I'm going to include in my video hardware write-up (yes,
I am
working on it).  I can publish them to pdf, if that would help.
<<

Is there any way this can be done in .SWF (Flash)?  That's easier to
embed than a PDF files.

Not familiar with the format.  Is there a converter available somewhere?

Cheers,

Tony Miller




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--=====================_991365==_.ALT-- From cybpunks@h... Tue Dec 04 12:13:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_2); 4 Dec 2001 20:13:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 29010 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 19:00:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2001 19:00:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.61) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 19:00:03 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.144] by n11.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2001 18:59:40 -0000 Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 18:59:36 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Nutting Manual Projoct, Update 7 Message-ID: <9uj6eo+e8ep@e...> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20011203192038.00ada118@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 763 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster From: "Glenn Saunders" X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.67 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=61430873 X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo > Not familiar with the format. I'm surprised. Flash has become a genuine rival to HTML itself for the dominant way to display data on the web. It's popular because it's small, scales, antialiases, interactive, cross-platform, and WYSIWYG. Fonts download with the files rather than having to be on your computer the way stylesheets demand. >Is there a converter available somewhere? Flash can import/export several vector formats. Macromedia Freehand, Adobe Illustrator, 2D autocad DXF, Windows Meta File... It can import/export bitmap formats but that defeats the purpose of using Flash. Flash can have embedded bitmaps. It's not exclusively a vector graphics engine. It's just that for most things you'd want to use vector to save space. From ballyalley@h... Fri Dec 07 21:25:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_2); 8 Dec 2001 05:25:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 52906 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2001 05:25:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2001 05:25:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.229) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2001 05:25:11 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 21:25:11 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 08 Dec 2001 05:25:10 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Nutting Manual Project, Update 9.1 - ROM Listing Summary Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:25:10 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Dec 2001 05:25:11.0192 (UTC) FILETIME=[B50E2180:01C17FA8] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Nutting Manual Project, Update 9.1 December 7, 2001 "Nutting Manual" ROM Source Listing Summary ------------------------------------------- This is not an update to the ‘Nutting Manual’ text file. This is an overview of the source listing at the back of the that book. It is listed here to aid in organizing the retyping of the code. Since the Bally ROM does have several revisions, do not use the Storage Area provided in this listing as a programming tool, it is meant only to aid those retyping the source from the manual. I) Header File ----------- 1. Equates/Macros ---------------------------- 1 - There is no page one 2-15 - Equates and Macros II) 8K Bally ROM ------------ 2. Subroutines, Character Set, and all else ---------------------------------------- Storage Area ($0000-$0E18) 16-82 - Assembly Listing - 67 pages 83-94 - Bally ROM Cross Reference - 12 pages 3. Scribbling ---------- Storage Area ($0E19-$1013) 95-103 - Assembly Listing - 9 pages 104-111 - Scribbling Cross Reference - 9 pages 4. Calculator ---------- Storage Area ($1020-$1323) 112-123 - Assembly Listing - 12 pages 124-131 - Calculator Cross Reference - 8 pages 5. Checkmate --------- Storage Area ($1028-$17D9) 132-151 - Assembly Listing - 20 Pages 152-161 - Checkmate Cross Reference - 10 pages 6. Gunfight -------- Storage Area ($17DE-$1FEE) 162-197 - Listing - 36 pages 198-207 - Gunfight Cross Reference - 10 pages This next short list distinguishes between the above pages that need retyping, and those that do not. This list does not show what has already been completed. Source Listing Cross-references (To-Type) Created by Assembler -------------------- -------------------- Equates/Macros - 15 Equates/Macros - 0 ROM - 67 ROM - 12 Scribbling - 9 Scribbling - 8 Calculator - 12 Calculator - 8 Checkmate - 20 Checkmate - 8 Gunfight - 36 Gunfight - 10 -- -- 159 48 - Totals Grand Summary: 0 pages of cross-reference to be retyped (the assembler creates it) 15 pages of equates and macros to be retyped 144 pages of ROM source to be retyped Now, to take advantage of this simple breakdown of the source listings, we will need some volunteers to take care of the typing. Not yet though. -- Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Sat Dec 08 14:38:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_2); 8 Dec 2001 22:38:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 33802 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2001 22:38:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2001 22:38:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.179) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2001 22:38:56 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 14:38:55 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 08 Dec 2001 22:38:55 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: ROM retyping begun Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 14:38:55 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Dec 2001 22:38:55.0997 (UTC) FILETIME=[1EB84AD0:01C18039] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo I am starting to retype the source code (from page 16). I will NOT be typing in the expanded macros, so it will look different than the Listing. When the source is done and compiles properly, an assembler Listing can be added to the book. In the meantime, the manual needs proofing-- no one has yet come forward. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Tue Dec 11 20:07:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_2); 12 Dec 2001 04:07:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 77815 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 04:07:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2001 04:07:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.145) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 04:07:47 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:07:47 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 04:07:47 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Nutting Manual - Update 9.2 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:07:47 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2001 04:07:47.0639 (UTC) FILETIME=[8EEF2C70:01C182C2] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Nutting Manual Project, Update 9.2 December 11, 2001 Proofreading Progress --------------------- No proofreaders have come forward. Not ONE. Source Progress --------------- * Equates/Macros - Header File 1-7 - Done 8-15 - In progress - Lance F. Squire * ROM 16-26 - In progress - Adam 27-82 - Not yet Assigned * Scribbling 95-103 - Not yet assigned * Calculator 112-123 - Not yet assigned * Checkmate 132-142 - In progress - Adam 143-151 - Not yet assigned * Gunfight 162-197 - Not yet assigned Grand Summary: 0 pages of cross-reference to be retyped (the assembler creates it) 8 pages of equates and macros to be retyped 144 pages of ROM source to be retyped -- Adam _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Wed Dec 12 09:47:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_2); 12 Dec 2001 17:47:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 51324 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 17:31:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2001 17:31:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.223) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 17:31:43 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:31:43 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:31:43 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Bally Alley Site Update Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:31:43 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2001 17:31:43.0331 (UTC) FILETIME=[DDA5AB30:01C18332] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo I uploaded the Bally Alley facelift that Lance created: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/test-index_2-0.html This version isn't the real index because the site needs some kind of 'official' banner (it's never had one). Since my art is less than great, could someone create a spiffy banner that's 468x60 and not larger than 12.5 K? All help is appreciated. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From cybpunks@h... Wed Dec 12 16:22:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_2); 13 Dec 2001 00:22:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 6150 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 00:22:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Dec 2001 00:22:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.64) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 00:22:24 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.124] by n14.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2001 00:23:47 -0000 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:22:21 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bally Alley Site Update Message-ID: <9v8sbt+djol@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 304 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "krishna.geo" X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.80 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=61430873 X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo You should stick with either serif or sans-serif fonts for your site. The text on the links on the woodgrain are serif and everything else is sans-serif. I would also experiment with custom link/visited/active colors rather than using the defaults. Other than that, looks like a big improvement. From ward.shrake@w... Thu Dec 13 18:11:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_2); 14 Dec 2001 02:11:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 66546 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 02:11:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2001 02:11:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.57) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 02:11:42 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.35] by n7.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2001 02:11:41 -0000 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 02:11:38 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bally Alley Site Update Message-ID: <9vbn4q+hnli@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 405 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.38 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan The new site updates look cool. Good job, guys! However, on my 600 x 800 screen width, I find I have to scroll both right and left to read anything. Most web sites are only 800 or fewer pixels across, to allow the greatest number of visitors to see them with minimal scrolling required. You may want to reconsider the width. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Fri Dec 14 04:48:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_2); 14 Dec 2001 12:48:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 71060 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 12:48:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2001 12:48:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.13) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 12:48:33 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 04:48:33 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:48:33 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Bally Alley Site Update Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 04:48:33 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Dec 2001 12:48:33.0775 (UTC) FILETIME=[A3E8A7F0:01C1849D] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >> on my 600 x 800 screen width, I find I have to scroll both right and left to read anything. >> The page works fine for us even on a 320x200 Windows 3.1, Netscape 1.0 screen. I'd say that your monitor is broken. Nah. Thanks for the tip, I hadn't even noticed that. I'll reduce the size of the table on the site; this is why I want feedback. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From ward.shrake@w... Fri Dec 14 11:50:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_2); 14 Dec 2001 19:50:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 89935 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 19:50:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2001 19:50:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.79) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 19:50:09 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.129] by n29.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2001 19:50:09 -0000 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:50:04 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Some notes regarding cart case repairs Message-ID: <9vdl5d+4tvh@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 6307 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.68.129 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan Some observations regarding the plastic cases that Bally carts come in... Lance and/or Adam may want to snag parts of this for the FAQs? There are a number of non-obvious problems with the four small screws that hold the two halves of a plastic Bally cartridge case together. It generally does not become apparent until you've had reason to open the case up, so most game players would never know about it. You may think that means you are not affected by this, but as soon as you have to open a case up to clean an edge connector, you're in trouble. In short, once you have removed the screws even once, from then on they often strip out, fall out or are torn out over time. The more often these screws are actually used, the worse your odds become at avoiding this problem. Even brand new, shrinkwrapped carts have this problem. The screws that were used by the factory cause the problem. The solution is simple; replace the original screws. The replacement screws you want are #2 screws, 3/8ths of an inch long. The panhead style is probably your best bet. Phillips or standard; either way. I prefer the woodscrew type myself, rather than a self-tapping style. One additional trick to use is to put a little bit of bar soap on the threads of the new screw, before you insert it. Just roll the screw across the surface, and let a little bit of soap stay on the threads. This lubricates the new screw and makes that first insertion go much smoother. This makes it easier to feel when the screw has bottomed out, so you can stop applying pressure at that point. It also makes it easier to remove and replace the screw whenever you need to do so. Doing these two things will fix the problem, most likely "forever". If you insist on leaving the original screws in the cart, make sure that you VERY carefully inspect and clean each thread on each screw before you reinsert it. Make sure that no plastic chips are caught in the threads. Use the bar soap trick, to lubricate the original screw. A couple of other screw-related tricks: before you try to remove the screws from any case, you may want to turn each one a quarter or a half of a turn, back-and-forth, a few times. With luck, this may dislodge some of the plastic clogging the self-tapping screws. You may also want to turn the cart upside-down and gently tap the case a few times to knock out any loose debris that may remain in each hole. To make sure you are inserting the screws properly, "back-thread" them gently before you start turning them. Put the screw into the hole, very very gently. Apply almost no pressure at all, and pay close attention to the feel of the two parts. Very slowly, rotate the screw in a backwards direction. The thread sticking out will ride the top wall of the hole, backwards, for a little while, without being able to find its way in. As soon as the matching groove is under the thread that is sticking out, the screw will suddenly drop into it. At this point, slowly start turning the screw in the proper direction. It takes practice to get the right feel for this -- try it with much larger nuts and bolts until you easily recognize how it feels -- but it is very useful to know about if you deal with many threaded holes. A bit more of a detailed explanation of the problem... The original screws are self-tapping, which means they cut their own threads into the plastic they are going into, the first time they are inserted. This is one quarter of the problem. The ridiculously fine threads are the next problem; they don't cut deeply enough into the surrounding plastic walls to really grab and hold well. The next quarter of the problem involves the very thin-walled tube that it is actually screwed into, and the fact that it is also an enclosed hole. This all adds up to a situation where the small plastic chips cut by the tapping section of the may end up jamming the fine threads at the bottom end of the screw. If the hole went all the way through, these chips might just fall out the other end, but as is they have no place to go. When you take the screw back out for the first time, these clogged lower threads essentially try to tap a new hole coming back out, widening the original grooves or destroying them completely. (I recently had a brand new case that wouldn't come apart even with great force. One screw had a huge ring of plastic at the bottom; more or less as if it were a nut on the end of a bolt. The screw just spun in its hole. I finally had just tear the screw out, with great force.) And now, here's why I take this all so seriously... If you look at the way that Bally carts go into the cartridge slot and are held there, you'll see that there is upwards pressure being applied all of the time; the "end of play" cart rejection spring is actually pretty strong, all things considered. The only thing holding the cart down are two little fingers that fit into notches in the end of the cart itself. If the screws that hold the case together are not holding it securely, this pressure can literally tear a cart apart. This last problem is potentially very serious. If one of the screws is essentially torn out of its hole by this constant tension, gravity will cause the tiny screw to fall out completely. (The sudden upwards snap of the cart rejection device makes this problem more likely.) It is unlikely you will notice the screw, laying there on the floor of the cartridge well. Sooner or later, it will roll into the open areas of the machine, where the metal body of the screw is just waiting to roll onto the wrong things, and short something out internally. At the very least, you've now lost one of the screws holding your cart together. Even if it just sits there on the floor of the cartridge insertion well, the lost screw can make new cart insertion difficult. To sum up; I hate the original screws used by Bally and Astrocade. They are not at all the best design for their situation. If you have any reason to be opening cases, or you just want to insure your carts will last a long time, buy a small box of 100 replacement screws (for about $3) and replace all of the problematic original cart screws. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Fri Dec 14 12:24:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_2); 14 Dec 2001 20:24:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 40961 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 20:24:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2001 20:24:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n33.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.83) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 20:24:52 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.49] by n33.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2001 20:24:52 -0000 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:24:47 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Notes on removing cartridge labels Message-ID: <9vdn6f+s565@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3595 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.68.129 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan If you're trying to remove a cartridge label from an original Bally cart -- say to make a homebrew game cart of your own -- you'll run across a number of problems. Since I've already solved many of them during my own homebrew (multicart) project, I'll pass on some tips. To get most of the original label off as cleanly as possibly, use a heat gun or a high-wattage hair dryer. I use a 1500 watt Conair handheld hair dryer. It is nothing special, in fact I paid $3 for it at a thrift store. I rest it on its side, on the bathroom countertop. I put it on a folded towel, so that vibration won't allow it to move around. (Mine has rear and front vents; don't block any side vents.) I stand a cartridge up on its edge about four or five inches away, and put something like a shampoo bottle behind it, to hold it there. Set on high, in a minute or so my hair dryer heats the label up enough to make the glue sticky again. I stick a hobby knife blade gently under part of the label, to test if it is ready to peel up. It will peel pretty cleanly, once you get the right timing figured out. One thing to watch for is case warpage. The Bally cart cases are so thin, that if you overheat the cart you can actually bend the case itself. If you apply too much heat, then use too much force to pull the label out, you'll actually bow the case upwards ever so slightly. (Needless to say, this is not a good thing.) Practice is best to avoid this, but one trick is to first bend the label almost straight back upon itself, then peel it backwards, almost flat. This changes the direction of the pull from side-to-side instead of outwards. Set the cart aside to let it cool down. Discard the old label, or try to stick it onto a sheet of wax paper if you want to try to save it. The next problem is relatively easy to solve if you know how to, but is a (heavily censored) pain to figure out. In short, there will be a lot of left-over glue residue. Your new label may not stick to it very well, as this adds unwanted texture to the smooth case surface. The solution is to coat the label area with Elmer's rubber cement, let it dry somewhat, and then wipe most of it off. (There must be some kind of a solvent in the rubber cement that is similar to the glue that was originally used on these carts.) This will take off some but not all of the glue residue. The rest will come off if you let the remaining glue dry, then rub it all off with your fingers. Before I figured that out, I went through just about every chemical but napalm and gasoline, with little or no success. "Goof-off" and laquer thinner were far too strong; they actually made the problem worse instead of better, by melting and marring the case's plastic. I also tried "Goo-gone" and "Windex" and other household cleaners to no avail, acetone to nearly the same result, soldering flux remover (in desperation), and anything else that I had handy. Nothing got rid of that stupid glue residue, even when scrubbed in with abrasive pads. I even broke out some steel wool and then very fine grain sandpaper, and tried it. Even that was a waste of time, and did nearly nothing. The Elmer's rubber cement trick gets a cart cleaned up a minute or two, as opposed to the fourty-five minutes per cart it was taking at one point, just to see something of a slight improvement (maybe). I am offering this info to save the rest of you the same frustration. (If anyone wants to include this info in a Bally FAQ, go right ahead?) Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Fri Dec 14 19:35:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 15 Dec 2001 03:35:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 57316 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2001 03:35:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2001 03:35:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.30) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2001 03:35:44 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:35:43 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 03:35:43 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Notes on removing cartridge labels Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:35:43 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Dec 2001 03:35:43.0887 (UTC) FILETIME=[938729F0:01C18519] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Both Ward's ‘label removal’ and ‘screw use’ mini-FAQs on Astrocade cartridges will be added to the text version of the Astrocade FAQ. Not until next month though. I can attest that this label removal information really good to keep in mind. It would have done me a world of good a lot sooner, like before I "melted" the front of a Bally cart trying to get the label off with some adhesive remover that works fine for a VCS cartridge. Live a little, learn a little. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From ballyalley@h... Fri Dec 14 19:41:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 15 Dec 2001 03:41:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 63898 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2001 03:41:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2001 03:41:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.179) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2001 03:41:42 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:41:42 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 03:41:42 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: "Nutting Manual' Update Prooreading Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:41:42 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Dec 2001 03:41:42.0392 (UTC) FILETIME=[6936AF80:01C1851A] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo I have completely proofread all pages through sixty of the ‘Nutting Manual.’ I’m going to try to finish the rest of the manual within the week. I have NOT uploaded the proofed version. I shall do that in one swoop. It’s time consuming, but I want it done for my own use. Selfishness; now there’s as motivation. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Sun Dec 16 18:49:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 17 Dec 2001 02:49:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 19740 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2001 02:49:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2001 02:49:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.220) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2001 02:49:24 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:49:24 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 02:49:24 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: 'Nutting' Update 10 - Pages 1-143 proofread Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:49:24 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Dec 2001 02:49:24.0720 (UTC) FILETIME=[6FD76F00:01C186A5] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo 'Nutting' Manual Project Update 10 ---------------------------------- December 16, 2001 Version 2.0 of the Nutting Manual has been completed; the index and pages 1-143 (the 'core' of the manual) have all been retyped and completely proofread. The structure of the manual has been revamped, making it easier to follow. The file is called nutting.zip and is located at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ I will be creating a PDF file of the core manual and I encourage the html conversion process to begin. Current Header and Source Progress ---------------------------------- The 'Nutting' manual isn't fully useful until the assembler header is finished; work is progressing in that direction. When this file is done then source code from the manual will assemble as listed (or very close to it). This will lead directly into the final step of entering the source code. I) Re-typing/Proofreading Core Manual 1-143 - Done. Thanks to those that contributed! II) Assembler Header File 1. Equates/Macros 1-7 - Done 8-15 - In progress - Lance F. Squire III) Source Code 1. ROM 16-26 - In progress - Adam 27-82 - Not yet Assigned 2. Scribbling 95-103 - Not yet assigned 3. Calculator 112-123 - Not yet assigned 4. Checkmate 132-142 - In progress - Adam 143-151 - Not yet assigned 5. Gunfight 162-197 - Not yet assigned Volunteers, contact Adam for instructions on typing in the source code (it's not just typing in the Listing from the manual. For greater details see the Finished/TODO.' section in this document. -- Adam _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Mon Dec 17 10:20:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 17 Dec 2001 18:20:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 58490 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2001 18:20:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2001 18:20:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.61) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2001 18:20:44 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:20:44 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:20:44 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Bally/Astrocade FAQ Update - 3.1 Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:20:44 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Dec 2001 18:20:44.0376 (UTC) FILETIME=[8AB64580:01C18727] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Bally/Astrocade FAQ Update - 3.1 The FAQ has been updated and revised. If you have been following this discussion group there should not be too much that is new to you. Ward's recent posts have been included, a multicart section has been added and a few loose ends tied up. Here is the list of changes as listed in the FAQ itself. Version 3.1 (Dec. 17, 2001) - Broke Contents into prefix, body and appendix sections - Added 'Changes/Updates' section - Integrated 'People of Note' in new 'Appreciation' section - Updated and added notes to 'Appreciation' section - 'MESS Emulation' section updated - 'About this FAQ' section added -- Adam _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From gary@3... Mon Dec 17 20:13:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: gary@g... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 18 Dec 2001 04:13:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 85627 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2001 04:13:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2001 04:13:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rwcrmhc51.attbi.com) (204.127.198.38) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2001 04:13:43 -0000 Received: from Ggordon ([12.248.151.104]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20011218041342.NSRR5010.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@G...> for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 04:13:42 +0000 To: Subject: another satisfied customer Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:14:15 -0600 Message-ID: <000001c1877a$7562e5a0$0300a8c0@G...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-eGroups-From: "Gary" From: "Gary" Reply-To: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=40876233 X-Yahoo-Profile: oaohy i'm now the proud owner of a bally astrocade multicart created by the one-and-only Ward Shrake! just arrived in the mail today. haven't finished wringing it out yet but so far so good. worth every dollar. noticed it came with the dip-switch set to the incredible wizard game. wonder if that's because it's the personal favorite of someone... thanks Ward! From ballyalley@h... Tue Dec 18 20:30:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 19 Dec 2001 04:30:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 88952 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2001 04:30:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2001 04:30:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.82) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2001 04:30:19 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:30:19 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 04:30:18 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: RTF Release - 'Nutting' Manual 2.0 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:30:18 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Dec 2001 04:30:19.0146 (UTC) FILETIME=[DD6306A0:01C18845] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo 'Nutting' Manual 2.0 - RTF Release ---------------------------------- December 17, 2001 Version 2.0 of the Nutting Manual has been converted into a Rich Text Format file (RTF) for easier reading over the ASCII version and cross-platform use. This document includes pages breaks, headers and footers, and pages numbers. The page numbers and header descriptions are written on the outside of each page (i.e. the document is designed to be double-side). This file is exactly the same as the text version, there are no differences except for enhanced viewing and printing. I will be working on a PDF version of the document that includes all of the diagrams too; that file is a ways off though- this version will get you through until then. The file is called nutting-rtf.zip. and is located at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ -- Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From cybpunks@h... Wed Dec 19 10:42:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 19 Dec 2001 18:42:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 27157 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2001 18:42:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2001 18:42:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.72) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2001 18:42:17 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.150] by n22.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2001 18:42:17 -0000 Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:42:14 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: RTF Release - 'Nutting' Manual 2.0 Message-ID: <9vqn26+bsed@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 423 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "krishna.geo" X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.71 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=61430873 X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > 'Nutting' Manual 2.0 - RTF Release > ---------------------------------- > December 17, 2001 > > Version 2.0 of the Nutting Manual has been converted into a Rich Text Format > file (RTF) for I took a quick look at this and it looks excellent. That really is a lot of work gone into it. When I get some free time I'll start converting this to HTML. From meeks46@h... Wed Dec 19 19:13:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: meeks46@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 20 Dec 2001 03:13:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 877 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2001 03:13:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2001 03:13:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n34.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.84) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2001 03:13:18 -0000 Received: from [216.115.97.83] by n34.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2001 03:13:18 -0000 Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 03:13:18 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bally/Astrocade FAQ Update - 3.1 Message-ID: <9vrl0e+28r8@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 867 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "galaxiankiller" X-Originating-IP: 67.174.42.75 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=88848886 X-Yahoo-Profile: galaxiankiller Please don't forget Jim McConnell or John Perkins in your appreciation and 'people of note' lists. Jim McConnell was Astrocade's chief engineer and John worked with him on later improvements. It was Jim that largely solved the static problem by putting the mylar in the handles and the heat sink between the chip and case. If you think it has a problem with heat now you should have seen the ones without the heat sink. It was also under Jim's direction that bigger game cartridges came into use. John created Artillery Duel and some 3rd party products; but, he also directly worked with Jim on a number of substantial improvements in the system that would have really been wonderful had Astrocade not gone under. Few people know that that there was a very active development effort underway at Astrocade just prior to it's failure as a company. From ballyalley@h... Wed Dec 19 20:47:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 20 Dec 2001 04:47:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 65819 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2001 04:47:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2001 04:47:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.10) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2001 04:47:38 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:47:38 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 04:47:37 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: Bally/Astrocade FAQ Update - 3.1 - Jim and John Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:47:37 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Dec 2001 04:47:38.0330 (UTC) FILETIME=[7333ABA0:01C18911] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo The idea of the Appreciation section in the Bally FAQ 3.1 is to thank people who helped directly or indirectly with the FAQ; I want to be careful not to turn the section into a miniature biography section. BUT, don't stop sending information like this (backgrounds on John Perkins and Jim McConnell)-- it will go into the FAQ someplace, and for now it will go there in the Appreciation section. I've been trying to chase John down about Astrocade questions, if you have contact information for John (or Jim), please contact me directly. -- Adam _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From ballyalley@h... Wed Dec 19 20:50:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 20 Dec 2001 04:50:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 51490 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2001 04:50:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2001 04:50:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.163) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2001 04:50:01 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:50:01 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 04:50:01 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Adam - No answer Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:50:01 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Dec 2001 04:50:01.0426 (UTC) FILETIME=[C87E6320:01C18911] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo I will be out of town for about two weeks during the hildays, so if you send me a note, don't feel like I am ignoring you. I'll answer when I get back. -- Adam _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From ward.shrake@w... Thu Dec 20 17:08:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 21 Dec 2001 01:08:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 5496 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2001 01:08:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2001 01:08:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.85) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2001 01:08:48 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.164] by n35.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2001 01:08:48 -0000 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 01:08:48 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: another satisfied customer Message-ID: <9vu230+93do@e...> In-Reply-To: <000001c1877a$7562e5a0$0300a8c0@G...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1685 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.180 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Gary" wrote: > i'm now the proud owner of a bally astrocade multicart > created by the one-and-only Ward Shrake! just arrived > in the mail today. haven't finished wringing it out > yet but so far so good. worth every dollar. Coolness. Thanks a lot! Makes my day to hear that! :-) Of course, I also welcome other comments -- good or bad -- from those few people that actually own one of my handmade multicarts? (I'm even toying with the idea of putting some user endorsement quotes in the FAQ, with people's permission. Get some outside opinions in there?) > noticed it came with the dip-switch set to the > incredible wizard game. wonder if that's because > it's the personal favorite of someone... Heehee. That could be, but I plead the fifth. :-) Seriously, that's just part of the service, as it were. I figure a lot of people will like that one a lot, and since first impressions count, I may as well do all that I can to give full $$ value, right? So I preset the carts to a cool game, for that very first test-drive. > thanks Ward! You're very welcome, Gary. And thank you for helping a struggling "wannabe" actor to keep a roof over his head, and food in the fridge! (It helps to still have a place to live, if I want to be able to keep making more multicarts.) Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm P.S. -- I have now shipped eight total Bally multicarts out, meeting my own tongue-in-cheek requirements of shipping six or more non-buggy units to qualify as an "Vaporware And Crapola Unofficial Unobtainium Maker" for the Bally machine. (See message 471 for further silliness.) From ward.shrake@w... Thu Dec 20 17:58:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 21 Dec 2001 01:58:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 5777 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2001 01:58:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2001 01:58:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.54) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2001 01:58:16 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.38] by n4.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2001 01:58:16 -0000 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 01:58:15 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Notes on getting dead carts to work Message-ID: <9vu4vn+bi9n@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4747 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.180 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan This isn't going to be an exhaustive step-by-step text on cart repairs -- just a few notes I have not seen elsewhere, to add to what's already known by people familiar with other game systems. It should be enough to tell an electronics hobbyist what to look for. Cleaning cartridge edge connectors is the first thing to try. Open the cart's plastic case up, take the PC board out, and rub the edge connectors gently with the finest grade of carpenter's wool you can find. The "0000" grade works great. Avoid anything much heavier duty than that, or you'll risk heavily abrading the surface, making the cart harder to resurrect. You'll end up with a mirror finish or be close to it, if the cart is dirty but in otherwise good shape. If that fails, and you're comfortable with a soldering iron, you may want to try tinning the edge connectors with solder. Don't use very much; just enough to give them an even coating. I add some 0.022" diameter solder, very lightly, and spread it around with my iron. Using solder wick, I pull most of that right back off. Push any small blobs backwards. Once I'm done coating them all, I take a Q-tip dipped in a good quality soldering flux cleaning chemical, and rub off the gunk. (I first squirt some into an aerosol-paint type cap, from a spray bottle.) It make take a few repetitions to get it nicely flux-free. You can then reclean the connectors using carpenter's wool. It is a lot of work, but I've brought back some dead rarities. If even that does not get your cart working, you *may* be having some problems with PC board / cart slot interference issues. (In other words, your PC board may not be perfectly shaped to fit into the slot, so that the little pins or fingers are not making a very good, reliable contact with their mating connectors.) It does happen; Adam once handed me a non-working third-party cart like this. The left and right sides of the board stuck out so far that they wouldn't allow the board to sit down flush in the slot. As a consequence, none of the pins were actually making contact. Cutting the sides fixed it. (It wasn't very hard to do in this case, because the offending parts were relatively small "snap-off" sections left over from the board manufacturing process. I just used wire snippers, then a small file to remove those unintended wings.) The cart worked fine after that. One other interference problem you may want to check on is at the very front lip of the PC board. Because of the way these carts are designed, the front lip is supposed to sit flush with the inner edge of the hole in the front edge of the cartridge. (Look at a cart to see what I mean.) If the front edge of the PC board sticks up just a fraction too high, it may only make the cart hard to insert. (I suppose it might cause problems with reliability, too, but I've never actually seen this?) In any case, it is easy enough to fix... just sand the top front edge of the PC board down at a slight angle, so that when you insert a cart, there is a bevel or "ramp" that hits first. Just enough to feel it; you don't have to see it much. The cart will ride up and over, causing you no further insertion problems. I don't imagine this would cause problems with existing carts, but to be extra paranoid when I made my multicarts, I also rounded the two side corners off. That way, even if a cart tries to go into the cart slot in some way that it shouldn't, it self-corrects as it goes in. If all of this does not fix your cart, there are only a few other things that could be wrong with it... One or more of the solder joints are "cold" or bad; if this is the problem, simply "reflowing" the solder joints should fix this. (Heat each one, and apply a very tiny bit of new solder to each one.) There may be two solder joints that should not be touching, but are. If this is the problem, use solder wick to take the solder off of both joints, and carefully resolder each joint seperately. It is unlikely, but perhaps the PC board itself is bad in some way. If you have the expertise to do so, you can visually check it over, to be sure that all the traces are intact and are unbroken, and that none are peeled away from the board's surface. The most likely issue on a factory-made board might be a small scratch, cutting a trace. The small decoupling capacitor located between power and ground may be shorted out. (If it did, your Bally system probably would not work at all, so this problem is possible but rather unlikely.) The chip itself may just be dead. Not much you can do about that other than to remove the old one, and to find a replacement chip. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Sun Dec 23 17:39:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 24 Dec 2001 01:39:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 30116 invoked from network); 24 Dec 2001 01:39:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Dec 2001 01:39:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.70) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Dec 2001 01:39:49 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.154] by n20.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Dec 2001 01:33:01 -0000 Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 01:39:50 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Multicart news: another batch starts soon Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 436 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.30 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan Hi folks. Just letting everyone know that I'm finishing up the latest batch of multicarts, and am about to start another batch of them. If any of you readers want to be added to my non-binding waiting list, or want to make a firm order for a multicart, now's the time. (My contact info and much more is in my comprehensive Multicart FAQ.) Happy Holidays! Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From fmillera@p... Fri Dec 28 11:12:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 28 Dec 2001 19:12:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 47502 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2001 19:12:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Dec 2001 19:12:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.85) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Dec 2001 19:12:07 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.114] by n35.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Dec 2001 19:12:07 -0000 Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 19:12:06 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New post of a zipped pdf file describing how the BPA hardware works Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 490 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "tonymillerus" X-Originating-IP: 63.199.241.220 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus Folks; Just posted a zip file containing BPA.pdf, a description of how the BPA video hardware works (for both consumer and commercial versions). This is an attempt to put to rest the rumor that a BPA can, with some simple modifications, output commercial resolution video. The unzipped file is over 8.5 MB. Illustrations take lots of space. Adam, I will send pdf versions of the illustrations directly to you. Happy holidays to all, and to all a good night! Cheers, Tony Miller